April 1, 2024

Machine-generated transcript — may contain errors.

After the, Kylie, you're up on the stage. Can I just ask you a couple more questions before we give public comments, which is where we're going to be going next? Somebody was asking me about those great windows at Barrios that kind of twirl. Are those going or staying?

If you know. would be to unify the color, not necessarily... Ellen, remember, come up. Sorry.

The goal would be to unifi the color but not necessarily change the design. Okay. Thank you. With that, and are there going to be kitchens at all in the units?

What do you finally decide? Yes. Right now, the interior program is that it would be small, which is honestly consistent with what they have right now, but completely all new. So small kitchenettes.

And the rooftop entertainment or whatever you want to call it, is that to be done at a future date if the market is there for it? Correct. And at this point, we want to build the infrastructure, so we do construction all at once. But it could be something as simple as a rooftop event space for the hotel.

It could be something that is tied in with the restaurateur below, whatever. There's just consistent demand and a lot of people like the idea of having rooftop access but there's not a plan in place at the moment. Okay, and Most obvious questions. I think we're ready to take public comments then at this time and any questions that either of you can answer.

Okay, great. Thank you very much for taking us through the project. At this time, we're open for public comments. If you want to speak, just come on up, give your name and address and tell us what's on your mind.

If you're on Zoom, you can just raise your hand and we'll allow you to talk. I'm Sally Hetzel. I live at 6233 San Benito. I originally started in the neighborhood on Northwood across from Captain's School in 1979.

So I've been around a while. And I was helped in the effort to get the neighborhood on the National Register of Historic Places. So I'm pretty vested in it. I also did the flowers for Caldeas Farm.

couple decades uh so this is my neighborhood and uh first i have a question what was the traffic study done dates uh can we go to tyler for that i'll pull that up so the traffic study was completed april 28th of 2023 april correct okay not real representative of how the neighborhood gets hopping in the summertime when all the outdoor seating is vibrant. I'm concerned about a few, you know, I think the parking thing is pretty unrealistic. The three parking spaces on North Roseberry are currently used by residents, our customers. And so is that going to be, if they're going to be dedicated to the hotel, is it like, Ticketed parking if you're not at the hotel.

Can I ask, is there going to be a cut away from the sidewalk or just park along the side? Parking for the hotel that would be timed and designated. The Department of Public Works did not provide us with a clear answer that those have been approved. They've requested three spaces.

The way that those requests work, the same way you can see a lot of the hotels or other uses outside in the downtown area, they would be identified as either a valet, which might have a time hour limit to it, or they would essentially lease those spaces and they would be restricted for drop-off. However, I cannot confirm right now that all three requested spaces have been approved by Public Works, but we will get that answer. One thing to answer, which is a good question. Right now with the apartments, everybody parks on the street because there's no arrangement with anyone anywhere and there's no parking anywhere on site.

So what the traffic study, which was third party, intuitively confirmed what we thought of the 14 apartments, some of which are two bedrooms, so two cars, they definitively found there would be a reduction in parking because we're adding eight units total, but we're adding 35 parking spaces. And of the eight units, because it's now hotel use versus apartment use, even at a high occupancy of 80%, and even of the highest statistical occupancy for hotels, which is less than 50%, they determined not us but the parking study determined that it would reduce traffic for sure but also significantly reduce the amount of cars because right now the apartment dwellers do park on the street because that's their only spot to park and that's 100 percent occupied now i think we have one vacant and they're all two two person two car Likely just the two bedroom, most of the one bedroom. Well, the one bedrooms have a lot of couples who have two cars, but with the hotel, I mean, I could speak how we travel. If we have a car, it's one, even if it's, if we're in a walkable community that has Ubers, we typically don't get a car.

But even if we were on the very, very high side of statistics, we would have significantly less cars on the street. even with just the five spaces that we're adding. So we are requesting three dedicated spaces, but we're adding 35 and then reducing parking significantly. Right.

Okay. I appreciate it. But you're also adding a bistro and you're talking about an event space on the roof where it could be 50 people. well the there's nothing planned for the roof today we would have to present whatever plan that would be at that point um but you guys know the code better than me but restaurants small restaurants are not required right now people do park to use the operational laundromat i don't know what the difference would be but that people do enjoy having more retail in demand fronts is really what the neighborhood has told us that they like, like the idea of a community gathering place.

Walk and enjoy. So I think particularly at night, I mean, I've driven because I own other properties in Devine to see what it's like at night. If someone was coming to the drop off later at night, there's actually less cars. It's usually during the park peak park times that tends to be a little bit traffic.

But right now, even the tenants who are there monthly, don't have any parking issues, and they're parking a lot of cars. But our goal, again, is to utilize the parking off-site. Thank you, Ellen. Sally, anything else?

Yes. I walk that space from that parking lot down to DeMunn. It's a long walk, especially if it's at night. It's not real lit up.

There are lights, but it's not real lit if I were a stranger to the area, I would be very concerned about making that walk at night. And certainly if there's ice and snow on the ground and the weather's inclement or it's pouring down rain, you know, it just seems like we're trying to shoehorn this in in, excuse me, in unrealistic ways. You know, we can make a point theoretically, but It seems a little unrealistic to me. I also have a concern about this going to be pretty major white block in this dark brick neighborhood.

I just think it's going to look out of place. If you've driven up Skinker recently, Port Clayton. Second house from the corner. Yes.

You know, I haven't found anybody who thinks that's attractive, but that's what's going to go into the heart of DeMunn. So those are my concerns. And I also appreciate what you do for DeMunn. Thank you.

Go ahead. It's actually limestone, so it's not white, but it's not white. It's... Thank you.

Any other comments? We have one online, too. Thank you. Hi, my name is Suzanne Langlois, and I'm a Clayton resident.

I live on Arundel. My partner Howard and I own the building where Caldey's is, and we actually went before this board 30 years ago and started Caldey's. We've since sold it, but we still have the building. And I just want to say, I think this is a super exciting project.

It seems beautiful and very thoughtful. And I appreciate all of the comments. We really miss when Sally did the gardening at DeMond. That corner looked so much prettier.

So we do miss Sally's gardening there. And I... I also appreciate your concern, Sally. I do want to say though, that I think that, um, it seems that there's a lot of thought being given in this project to keeping, um, keeping the, the current businesses in demand, um, appreciated and vibrant.

And I think that that's, that is really the heartbeat of demand is all the independent businesses. And I, and I liked the fact that, that, that is part of the vision of this hotel is to encourage, uh, the visitors to the hotel to explore the neighborhood and to really exploit the neighborhood and it's independent, a trippy feel. So I appreciate that. And I do have a question for Alan.

Have you, have you like, sorry, I realize people can't hear and listen. Have you discussed with the existing businesses ways that you can help them support them when they're during construction? Because I know that would be really hard. Even though it's exciting, you know, you go to a city and they're scaffolding up and you have to kind of go under the scaffolding to go into a business, which is, you know, can be kind of exciting because, you know, anticipate what's coming, but how will you kind of help them there?

Very preliminary, but some of the contractors that we're beginning to talk to and of course the first step is getting approval and then construction drawings and everything that comes next is ways to make sure that we keep the retail open because keep in mind the updates that we're talking about to the retail are mostly cosmetic. The very preliminary timeline that they've talked about which is construction. So it's always very fluid, but with the scale of the project, somewhere in the year range, but a lot of it will be in the inside. The bigger portion piece, of course, will be the addition in the back.

But we value our retail tenants. We've tried to keep everyone. That's kind of the heartbeat of Demand, and we like the curated selection that we have right now. We don't know long-term.

People do come and go on their own volition, but we like the retail establishments that we have. Ellen, since you're up there talking about retail, can I just ask, so in that vein, have you gotten commitments from the current retail tenants to stay despite the construction? We have existing leases, but we also have people who want flexibility on their own volition outside of what we're doing. So the first step in our mind is first approval, then an actual construction plan and timeline with the right parameters and then approaching our tenants, you know, once we have the facts.

Right. But I, you know, some people have leases that they want shorter amounts. Some people have longer amounts. So it just will be kind of dependent on both what the tenants want to do.

But our goal is not to push people away. I mean, the reality is if I may say this. Yeah. Can I just ask those?

So, but also, you know, we see, so I, um, I represent downtown. So constantly downtown is we're seeing new buildings go up and this is wonderful. Well, where you're not tearing down a building, you're using an existing building, but a new building comes up or, you know, a renovated building and everything becomes a lot more expensive. Um, So I guess I'm just curious, will you give preference for existing retail tenants to stay or, you know, like a lot of, yeah, a lot of them are in longer term leases.

So I can't speak to the longevity of exactly what we'll do, but I can tell you that the type of tenants we want are the local independent ones and their smaller spaces. So we've done that historically in the past. We've Even during COVID, when I bought the buildings, we worked with our tenants before any of these things. But as property and taxes increase continually, we do have to have a building that's financially operational.

Right. I just wasn't sure if you were trying to clean sweep and start over. No, no, we're not looking to clean sweep. We like what we have.

Okay. We like the mix of it, you know we do think obviously that laundromat that was part of the reason I don't anyone knows that the history of that building, but that was part of. The reason that that seller was actually selling is the laundromat just financially. it can't afford to stay open.

A lot of the renovation and progress with nothing to do with us in the neighborhood, most of the apartment owners have either renovated the units with washer and dryers inside or added basements. So the areas that are turning over, we're definitely looking to curate specific type of retail. Like a lot of things that have come out of the meetings, which we agree with, are talking to the residents, what type of retail would you like? And consistently we heard more gathering places, more places to eat, we kind of agree with an idea, perhaps a bodega over time, you know, those types of tenants.

So we're not looking to bring in Starbucks or anything like that. Thank you. Just talk about the construction for a second, technical issues, because I know that this is part of it. The building across the street, our project at the bank, is a good example.

When that construction, you know, there's a fence that goes around the entire perimeter of the thing, shutting off the sidewalk, and that's a renovation of an existing building. This building has a good advantage in that it's right on the property line and all of those retail tenants face the sidewalk on demand. Now, Clayton has the rule that you have to fence your entire property when we have a construction thing. So one of the things that we will be talking with with the city about during construction is not fencing the front of it.

There's no reason to fence the front of this building. Then people would have to get through the fence in order to get to the retailers. All the construction is in the back. So the fence can start in the middle of the building and go back around the back of it and enclose the back, not the front.

The only thing we're doing in the front is changing out windows. And that can be done actually from the inside of the building. So occasionally there might be a lift or something we need on the sidewalk, but we're not talking about wholesale shutting down the building like you see in some of these other projects. The alley?

It'll have to be open, yes, because the alley is there for trash service, so we can't close the alley. So it'll have to be opened, but there'll be a fence along the perimeter of the edge of the alley. Okay. at the property line, basically.

Can I go back and follow up on her point about keeping the commercial tenants? I mean, the reality is, as we have seen in downtown Clayton, once you put a new construction, you rehab a building, the costs go up dramatically. And to recapture those costs, the rents have to go up. And like the loop can while back the loop in your city could have have these great boutique stores, because the rents were low.

We can have a chocolate candy store, we can have a little clothing boutique store, the size of a matchbox because I assume the rents are are affordable, but once you put the money's in. And I'm not passing judgment on it. I'm just pointing out a reality that as we talk about this project, it would not be unlikely to lose some of these tenants because they're not affordable per square foot or the sizes are just too small to be supported by the new rents. That's all I'm saying at this point.

Any other comments? We have the online person still. Wait, we still have... Online, who's online?

Hi, thank you. I wanted to, I'm wondering will the hotel guests be compelled to park in the lot? Otherwise, I don't know why they wouldn't simply park in whatever spot they found available. Just as anyone who comes to the neighborhood parks in any available spot.

why not to the hotel guests? So although I understand the math is that you're adding 35 spots in the lot, in fact, unless someone is compelled to park there, I wouldn't imagine that they would unless there were no available spots you know, along Daman, in which case the residents who currently park on the street could find themselves having 35 spots in a parking lot up the hill instead of being able to park in front of their building as they currently do. And then I also just wanted to double check that that alley will always remain an alley. The neighborhood now...

uses it because it's all one-way streets around here. We drive through that, you know, most people who live on Northwood or Rosebury drive through that alley many times a day. And so I would want to make sure that that would remain just an open alley for the neighborhood and also that that wouldn't be a concern for the hotel itself. That's all.

Thank you. Can you please state your name and address for the record? Sure. Sorry.

Heather McPherson and I'm 6300 Northwood. Thank you. Also, I'll answer the alley question. The developer has not requested in the city will not approve removing that alley function just for the same reasons that you mentioned.

So the alley is remaining an alley city owned right away. Great. Thank you. Any other public comments?

Please. You could give your name and address. Thank you. Jim Muska, 6231 Roseberry.

I generally support the project. I think it's a good idea. I think it would be great for the community. But I do have two grandchildren.

one eight-year-old granddaughter and a six-year-old grandson. And my daughter lives at 6414 San Benito. She supports the project too. My concern is kind of an addition to the traffic study concern.

When the study was done, was there a temporal dimension relative to the day? We really have two cycles or three cycles down in Des Moines. We have the school cycle in the morning, and where the alleys are used to get to school. And then in the afternoon, school cycle, the kids are coming away from school.

And so it'd be interesting to see what the traffic study showed and flow relative to those times today when the kids are really out on the sidewalks and really flooding the neighborhood. That was my one observation. And I do think having a study done during the summer, when the volume of activity in the neighborhood is high, it would have been better to do that. I don't know if it makes sense to redo the whole study because I don't know how the study looks right now.

um the other question was how long are we thinking the project's going to take to do i don't know if it was a year i know you want to get it done as soon as possible i mean once construction starts yeah contractors say a year but probably a year and a half things usually take longer um but you know we would be doing it all at once and we would be using contract that does things quickly. So it's expensive to do things longer. Sure. No, you want to get it done as fast as possible.

That's two years. Right. So tied to that is all permitting approved and all variance and everything approved prior to project starting. So it doesn't start and have to stop.

So the goals get all that done before it. And that's part of your job. Great. Oh, on the parking at the seminary.

I mean, that's kind of a business. That's kind of a business model decision where they're going to deal with the parking, so I'll defer their judgment on that. I just got back from Ireland, went to a wedding, and the hotel was kind of a boutique hotel. It was probably, I'd say, similar distance, and it's always raining in Ireland.

And that was kind of an adventure, and you're walking through to get to the hotel. It was fun. I enjoyed it. Thank you.

Thank you. I just wanted to answer what the traffic study did actually. Can you just mention? His question about the traffic study, it was like 30 pages.

I had to read it twice. But they did look at very specific time zones throughout the day, throughout the entire day. So I can't quote the specifics, but their overall results were based on every peak time of the day. Thank you, Willa.

Yes. Can you give your name and address? Yeah, absolutely. My name is Becky Patel.

I live at 79 Aberdeen, and I am an older person in Ward 1. So I just want to raise a couple things that I've heard from constituents that have not been voiced today. And one is... One is a question.

Today, the access to that parking lot is often restricted by a gate that's closed by Concordia. So I'm guessing that if the parking lot is going to be the primary suggested use for the hotel, that that gating would just not happen and it would be open access 24-7? Is that... I'm looking at the chief operating officer of Concordia Seminary.

So you can shut a farther gate to access the parking lot. Great. Mike Lewis from Concordia answered Alderman Patel's question, and there's a second gate within that area that they could close, allowing the initial gate off of DeMond to be open so there would be access to the parking lot. Thank you.

And then I have a question and a suggestion. So one question is that because this is a planned unit development, the developer is required to demonstrate public benefits, which I know are documented in the proposal, but we haven't discussed them today. So I'd love to hear a presentation of what those are because it's a really important part of the process for the public to understand what some of the benefits are. And one that I would like to suggest is that the parking lot in question has a negative reputation for the people who back up to it.

It's like unsightly and there's activity takes place there that is not desirable. And also it has significant stormwater impacts like gathering and stuff. So one thing that could really improve the experience for those residents would be something like, you know, like a buffer landscaping between the south side of Arundel and that parking lot, potentially one that's like rain garden-ish and stuff to help with the stormwater. So I know it might seem odd because it isn't part of the project officially but it is a key component of the project at the same time that's being presented and so I would hope that there's a way for us to look at like improvements that could be made there that makes the whole project overall um like a really wonderful benefit to the community so thank you okay just just a comment on that Becky I just wonder if uh having a green screen as a buffer is something to be taken up by Concordia when they present their project to do their housing up close to the university.

And again, I said earlier, I think that was the only logical place where some of the parking is going to go and maybe that would be the time. I would love to ask city staff what our options are as it relates to the process. Because my understanding is what Concordia is going to go through as a conditional use permit does not necessarily require public benefits and would not actually like create a mechanism for us to ask for that. And I seem to recall that it is possible for a developer to provide public benefits that aren't necessarily completely within their scope scope of ownership, but related to the project.

And this is certainly related to the project as it's been presented. So Yeah, I can. Do you want me to answer that or what? Okay.

Yes. So the project that Concordia is separately proposing would be a conditional use permit. And at this time, based on the conceptual drawings they presented, they don't, they have not proposed any construction within the area of this parking lot. However, they've only presented conceptual drawings, so I can't speak to that for certain.

I can say that public benefits can be off-site when they have a direct connection, often referred to as a nexus in zoning and land use law, to the project proposed. So in this scenario, this parking lot is proposed to provide the supply that's needed for the proposed development. So it is connected. The screening could...

be a potential way to reduce or improve impacts that might be had if the parking lot becomes more used than it is currently but it is not a requirement from the pud but as mentioned it could be a proposed public benefit if they wanted to choose that okay i think we will go through the public benefits uh before we end tonight for sure any other public comments please ellen Hello, Alan Richmond, 6233 Northwood. Been a resident in Des Moines for 27 years and love it there. Very excited about Ellen's project. I think it looks beautiful.

It's going to enhance the neighborhood in a lot of ways. I hope to stay there as a tenant. We haven't had a chance to talk. I'm sure you're very busy.

Most of my concerns are personal just based on my experience logistics as a tenant there uh as a resident of the neighborhood i don't think parking is going to be an issue it's um it's an urban area and parking is an issue it just is and we all choose to deal with it because we live in that area and as a business person i found that the parking doesn't impair my my business so i don't i don't think the parking is an issue at all I'm not convinced though that traffic is not an issue. There can be less demand for parking, but more traffic in the neighborhood. And as somebody who walks to and from work all the time, walks my dog around the neighborhood, there is a lot of traffic already. And hopefully it brings more traffic because you want the neighborhood to grow.

So whether it's Uber or Lyft or taxis that are bringing hotel guests or my guests, I worry even from my, you know, absent this project just as businesses grow and The density grows, the traffic gets a little hectic at peak times. I'm not sure there's anything that can be done about it or should be done about it. I certainly wouldn't think that should be a reason not to do the project, but just something... to keep in mind because it's a very, very heavy pedestrian area with lots of kids and lots of dogs.

And it's getting busy over the years. So I'm excited because the building, I've been in that building and I wanted to make it more beautiful with the windows. I hope we can keep the windows. I don't care what color they are.

And it's not a beautiful building and what you've designed makes it look so much better. So I hope this gets going and is not negatively impactful in any way. And I look forward to talking to you about my personal position there. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other speakers? Howard? My name is Howard Lerner.

I'm Suzanne's business partner and 700 Daman, 702 Daman, 6340 Northwood. We're the owners of that building, which is the Caldees building. I just want to... make a quick statement that I am wholeheartedly in support of this project.

I think it's great for the neighborhood. I think that when we started our business 30 years ago, there was concern that, you know, people, what are your hours? Well, we wanted to open until midnight. Well, now we close at like six.

So, you know, things calm down. Things become, you know, you sort of get a sense for the pace of the neighborhood and the business adapts. Every business adapts to the neighborhood. Hours change in the case of a retail business.

And I think the same thing is going to happen. I think, you know, give this project a chance, and I think it'll become an institution that you'll be proud of in 30 years. So thank you. Thank you, Howard.

Good evening, everybody. My name is Tony Kirk. I live at 912 DeMunn Avenue, which is just up the road from this wonderful new project. Very, very excited.

As I've said in the previous public meeting, I'm just delighted that somebody's investing in our neighborhood, making a change. I personally love the limestone. I think it looks absolutely classy. It will age beautifully.

It'll denominate the building as high end, which is what we want. I think it'll fade much more beautifully than brick normally does. But anyway, that's personal opinion. I have a suggestion.

We've been talking a significant amount about parking. I drive through the neighborhood all the time. I see parking spots open all the time. Sometimes on Rosebury, northward, southward, it can be a little bit congested.

fair enough. Those are kind of narrower streets, a little bit more complicated. But my suggestion is simply to paint some parking lines, as I think they've started to do in the city. Because as you know, some of the parking in that area is completely random.

People park well away from curb cuts. They take two spaces, one and a half spaces. So I think it would help significantly. And this, I'm not sure if actually the city allows for a project to pay for this on our behalf but i suggest that we paint delineate the parking bays all the way up and down those streets as far as we can along demand so people understand where they can park and they don't take up too much space i think it'll save everybody a lot of time and hassle um but overall thank you so much once again i think it's very exciting i certainly hope you make as much money as possible and keep a lot of people spending in clayton we need the tax dollars thank you thank you johnny Anyone else with a public.

We have somebody online. Anthony, is that right? Anthony, you there? Can you hear me now?

I can hear you now. All right. I was in earlier and I decided to finish up on Zoom. I got a couple questions about something that came up tonight.

I would like to know about the parking study and traffic study. What are considered peak hours? Is there somebody there who can tell me that? Hold on.

Okay, peak hours. The AM time is 7am to 9am. And the PM peak hour is 4pm to 6pm. Anthony, anything else?

Hello? I think we've had a... You've muted yourself again, Anthony, if you're trying to speak. Either the solar eclipse has come a little early or...

Okay. Anthony, are you there? You should be okay now, Anthony. He's doing that, I assume.

Yeah. Can you hear me now? We can hear you now. All right.

My point is about peak hours for traffic in the DeMunn area, and particularly the business area, it should be from 6 to 10 p.m. Thursday, Friday, and Saturdays during late spring, summer, and fall. That's when the traffic and the parking hits critical mass. So I don't think you're traffic study is valid than for for the neighborhood okay all right and then the second uh question i have is uh part of this meeting tonight is about uh a rezoning what are we changing in the zoning for for that block because i'm thinking There's been a change in Clayton's strategic plan for that neighborhood.

I believe it's a commercial area, and I think we're keeping consistent with that commercial area. We're going to create a PUD. which allows mixed-use development within that commercial area. Right now, that building has residential and commercial.

In the end, it will have a hotel on top and commercial on the first floor Yes, the rezoning is from the commercial district to a planned unit development. And a planned unit development is not like our other base zoning districts where it applies widely. You rezone to a specific planned unit development by ordinance for a specific property. So what is identified as the planned unit development plan, should it be adopted by the Board of Aldermen, would only apply to this property in question.

And that would include the height use ordinance all the parking, all of those requirements for this property and the development specifically, rather than a zoning district that applies to any property within the city that has that zoning designation. All right. And then there's nothing then to prevent a rezoning for the block between North Roseberry and Northwoods, the next black South, North. That would have to go through a separate process of a rezoning process.

I understand that. But my point is, suddenly it's not going to be demand anymore. If I could, if you can go with me here. The existing commercial zone is C2, is that correct?

Or is it C1? C1 is the existing. Is mixed use allowed in C1? Well, there's mixtures of uses but residential above in C1 is actually not allowed so the majority of the properties that face them on in this area are not conforming to the existing zoning.

Exactly. That's my point is we are rezoning this to what it actually is. It currently does not meet zoning all up and down. So this is not a wholesale change to the neighborhood or to the city of Clayton, the master plan.

This is actually bringing the zoning in compliance with what is already there. So that's one comment. The second is with regard to the traffic studies. In the city of Clayton, I've done a lot of projects in Clayton and typically a traffic study is required.

This is part of your process and it's done because traffic is one of those things that has a lot of opinions. We all have an opinion as to what is busy or not busy or feels like there's parking or no parking. That's kind of our own observation and everybody will have a different answer on that. So the way that City of Clayton handles it is the developer is required to hire a third-party independent traffic study consultant for these projects.

These people are professionals, and what they do is they go out and measure these things and produce the data so that you can see it objectively as opposed to just general feel of what we all feel it is. So we've done that. We hired that independent consultant. They've done their jobs.

They are professionals. They do a lot of these traffic studies, so they know how to measure it And in terms of, it was done in April. I know that's not the peak of summer but April is pretty nice weather to be out and about and going to restaurants. The only small thing I wanted to add about the summer that he mentioned.

This has nothing to do with our project but because I'm down there all the time and I'm aware of it. the captain lot in the summer and at night does get used for the retail and restaurants. So it has a natural flow to the neighborhood where at night and in the summer, we're not requesting that lot, but that is the lot that traffic tends to lead to in the more busy times of retail. Okay.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Can I add one more question I have?

Sure, Anthony. And that's about the parking situation with Concordia. There was some thinking that if Concordia allows this parking, they could lose their not-for-profit tax status. Has that been determined or not?

That would, that would not be a city issue at this time and I would hope that Concordia would make sure that's not the case before they allowed that sort of an agreement. Thank you. Thank you, Anthony. Any other comments.

I'll make it real quick. I'm Patty Busommer at 6451 Clayton Road to Bun Point. We've been there for about 15 years and represent that group that was back there that left because of the tornado. But we've been kind of watching this project for the past year and going to the meetings, the two meetings, and really have been so excited as it's been going on because we feel like there's been so much care put into what the community needs and making sure that the project fits in the community.

So we're just all really excited and would love to see it happen. My only concern is the construction, but when you have new things happening, you have construction and that's part of development. Thank you very much. Anyone else with comments?

Seeing none, we're ready to move on. the next part i want to move on is the public benefits for the plan unit development and it's we have that's in the yellow uh there's three of them before we start that i don't know if you guys have any comments or questions for the developer or anything like that um i just had a couple um questions um ellen or tyler the sidewalk's not going to change at all like the width or everything's staying the same that wraps around both corners Right at the entrance to the lobby where we talked about, there's a small change in terms of right now the sidewalk as it connects. There's some tree lawn in there as it kind of connects through. We need to slide it over, adjust it to match the new entry.

But no, it doesn't wholesale change. Okay. Yeah, I just want to, you know, again, just make sure there's plenty of space for people to walk and, you know, accessibility, make sure people are able to get who are challenged. i also had questions about um i can't remember and i saw this in the plans where are the bike racks for i know because you guys have to provide are they on the sidewalk or are they more contained within the hotel we have them in that plan yeah well oh it's not up on the screen anymore they recommended not on the right peak sidewalk but directly kind of next to Okay, so at least I just think it might be helpful, you know, otherwise you might have people leaning their bikes against the railings and they moved it all around as part of like when we move the trash in the parking so it's now back in that off the alley.

Okay. And then I noticed that you guys at some point just because I know we aren't going to get into points but you know because I think it is important for everybody to realize that this is a plan unit development. So in order to have a planned unit development, you have to provide public benefits. So you guys are kind of right up at that point level.

You need 20 and staff is recommending 20. So, you know, think about because while this board is... Certainly very critical of points. Once you get to the Board of Aldermen, Tyler, I think their points get even, I would say, the critique gets even harsher.

So just thinking about, you know, you took out the EV charging stations. I know that was a discussion at some point is that that's pretty much off the table discussion. So the thing about the EV charging stations, and this is something that everybody's learning now. It requires a really large transformer.

Yeah. So we're dealing with this with other projects right now. And I was quite surprised actually, because our clients like to sell condos and say everybody can have an EV charger in the basement. I have learned recently that when you do that, you have transformers all over your site the size of school buses.

It's not practical. So we have to kind of figure out how to navigate forward with EV chargers and certainly on this site because the site is so tight and there's no place to put transformers, we deal with transformers on poles, it becomes a little bit impractical. Yeah, I just it just might be, you know, I mean, again, that's a business question for you guys. But, you know, people call and say, you know, where are the where can I park my car and charge it?

So is there a minimum number that you have to provide in order to get a point for that? I can't remember. That would be a good question for Anna, but I'm not sure. No, there's not.

One can be accommodated off the electric grid of the building, but then you get more when you get to issues. It might be, again, I would just potentially think about it. It might be something to think about. In terms of this, Anna, just correct me if I'm wrong, the spaces that I know that Public Works is still looking into it, but those are city's compensated for that losses or they're not metered over there so they're so remind me how does that work if we dedicate spaces they they would need to go through a essentially a permit process where they lease for all intensive purposes those that right of way from the city is essentially what they're doing through that so there's not because we don't because we don't meet her over there so there's not necessarily going to be exchange of I'm not familiar with all the details, so I wouldn't want to tell you incorrectly about any sort of fee schedule, but I do know it would need to be an agreement established through Public Works.

Okay. I don't remember if I had any other... I would add this was a conversation I had down in the tornado room with someone, but it's on that same subject, the sidewalks. You asked about sidewalks changing.

That's also part of public works. Those are all public sidewalks. So they might require us to do some changes. I don't know because oftentimes Clayton will require sidewalk changes when we have a project.

So I can stand up here and tell you we're not planning on changing the sidewalks, but just know that it might come from public works. In Public Works' review during the review of the process, they did not request any changes. All their comments were more related to leaving certain areas open during construction, but Ryan and I did not specifically talk with them about the parking reserve spaces, so that's why I just wanted to call that one out. And I just want to make a comment, too, because this is a relatively new thing.

Although this is a fairly large project, but we have a new kind of construction parking requirement. So, you know, people in the neighborhood I know because construction is painful. So they'll be required to provide a plan for where all the workers from the construction company will park. So most likely it will be somewhere, it will definitely be somewhere off-site because we can't have 15 construction people parking in the neighborhood.

That's problematic. So they will require to submit some sort of plan to wherever people will park. Okay. It's coincidental that the Commerce Bank just shut down there at the corner.

So that lot is now available. Oh, yeah, that's helpful then. But those are all the comments I have just related to site plans. I don't know if anybody...

Perhaps the follow-up on Bridget, before we go on to the public benefits, if anyone else on the Planning Commission would like to have any comments or questions with regard to the project? No, I have nothing further. Tyler, you did an excellent job. You answered all of my questions.

I've been lining through them. So thank you. Yeah, I have nothing to add for right now. Is Carolyn on?

Yeah, no, I'm here. Um, no, I, no, I have nothing, uh, further to add. All right. Thank you.

And, uh, Let's go to the PUD analysis. And a planned unit development, it's a way you take a piece of property and you could look at it from a big picture analysis and not just a five foot setback as required on the ordinance. You try to make it work from a bigger perspective. And they have done that.

But part of the price to do something like that is that you have to show that you're doing some kind of public benefit to the neighborhood. or that the project will add to the neighborhood's vitality, or richness, or livability. And we do it with what's called a point system. It's a lot of judgment call.

How much of a benefit is the fact that it's a new building, or it's recycling an old building? Is it 1 point, 2 points, 3 points? And they have to get up, as Anna said, 20 points To show public benefits and towards that end We have a document I'm sure all of you could read that right and And you'll see You'll see that the requested is 25 and the staff came up with 20 and a minimum of 20 is required And it can't be 100 because if you look at the possible point scale, there's a range that you can give, zero through five or zero to one. And a decision has to be made within that range.

And as a planning commission, we are first obligated to look at it. So if you look at top, it's a range of zero to five and it deals with construction buildings. That's basically the new building that they're building And would it be of significance of something unique designed to have architectural character that will complement the existing building and surrounding context and maybe have some unique details? Does it fit in with the neighborhood a little bit?

And towards that, they requested five and the staff gave five. And I'm asking the commission here Does anyone have a problem with the awarding of five or would want to suggest another number? As for me, I'm comfortable with a five. I unfortunately would probably and again, I think it's a beautiful the problem here is architectural distinction.

I think it's beautiful building and I think it's fantastic that they're taking an old building but I'm just not sure I would give them five. I would probably go down to three or four. But again, I'm Five. I agree with Bridget, a three or four.

I know we've had a lot of buildings come through here and we're very particular about like what we give a five when it's architectural distinction. It fits in great with the neighborhood. It's a beautiful building, but the highest I would go is probably a four. Okay.

So we have two fives, two fours at average is four. Oh, Carolyn? Interesting. I'm leaning towards a five.

Honestly, I think there's a lot of consideration and, you know, For the neighborhood. And I don't know. I think it actually has a lot of characteristics. So I'm at a five.

Okay. And I want the commission to keep in mind, the proposed staff is 20 and we need to come up with 20 if we want the project to go through. Okay. yes right i'd give it a five as well okay uh that puts it pretty close to five just under five and then the next item is uh a range of zero to one the sustainability practice of adaptive reuse reusing the existing building And it was requested one, and the staff gave it zero.

And that's with regard to just the fact they can reuse the existing building more or less. I think that's important. I would certainly give it one. The points are down below, I believe.

Isn't that right? So on this line item, the zero to one, there's actually a number of sustainability category practices that they could ask for points. They requested points for adaptive reuse of the building. Staff felt that those points are already being awarded under the preservation, but staff did feel that it met some of the other criteria when it comes to lead for your building siting and how they laid out.

And so staff recommended one point for that. All right. So this is zero for this line item. I don't have a problem with it since it's put in someplace else.

The next one is preservation of buildings which are architecturally or historically significant. So you skipped over one. Again, there's two lines under the sustainability item here. The first, they propose adaptive reuse.

And then the second would be the appropriate building setting, which takes into account the LEED standards for how you lay out your site. in the small line. That's just one point. Anyone have a problem with that?

Okay, that's fine then. And then the next line item is the preservation of buildings which are architecturally or historically significant or contribute to the character of the city. The range is zero to seven. And this is the preservation of building idea.

The developer requested seven and the staff recommended seven. I don't have a problem with it. I don't have a problem. Again, I think it's a little high, but I think it's really important that we're awarding a developer here who's taking an old building and making it better, which I really appreciate.

Clayton, unfortunately, was on the cover of the post-dispatch related to tearing down historically significant homes. So I think it is fantastic here that we're taking an old building. And making it better. So I would be okay with seven points.

Okay. I have said that better. Honestly, that was brilliant. Perfect.

Thank you, Carolyn. Seven, seven it is. All right. The next one deals with, um, The next set of categories within our point system right now in the code, there is kind of an open-ended category where a developer can propose what they feel are public benefits of the project that are not specifically outlined within the options of the code currently.

So those do not have prescripted point ranges. The developer will put will propose what they feel is the right number of points. So the next four in here fall under that kind of open-ended category that gives discretion to the Board of Aldermen. And the first one is currently there is zero on-site parking.

We're adding five because that's to the rear. The spaces are tucked under, right, and behind. And they requested three, and the staff recommended two I would add another point to that. The fact that they went to Concordia and got 30 spaces deserves real creativity to make that work.

In an area that is already very tight with traffic, I would definitely give them three points for really trying hard to do the to do the right thing and provide as much parking as possible in a difficult situation. I would just stick with two. Three. I'm going to go ahead and do three.

Carolyn? Agreed, yes. Agree with three? Yes.

Thank you. So again, that's just barely under three on that one. The next one is currently the existing buildings do not feel the site which creates large gaps in the street frontage along north and south. Roseberry.

By filling these gaps it creates a much more pleasant pedestrian experience and better urban design. I think what they're really looking at is if you look on Roseberry on the side of the street there's a warehouse in the back and From a walking, there's really nothing there. When you walk now, as people walk towards the shopping area, they'll see something better. I can't agree more than that.

The requested points is three, and the staff recommended three. I would agree with the staff. Is that OK? Got to say yes.

Yes. Yeah. Carolyn? Yes.

Okay, thank you, Carolyn. The next one is currently only a small portion of retail faces North Roseberry. The new design will have the hotel entity, the hotel entry off of North Roseberry and a new larger section of retail on South Roseberry. This will wrap the pedestrian friendly experience around the building Continuing it onto the side streets and not just focusing on DeMunn Avenue.

What am I missing here? Staff requested zero. Staff feels that that's the same benefit as the category directly above. Okay.

All right. I'm not sure if it's identical. I'd give it one. board that's it i i guess i would agree with staff i think it's already been given three points above i would agree with staph hey carolyn yes i agree too and it's zero that's fine the next one is uh says currently the alley and all the dumpsters and alley functions are very open to view on north and south roseberry by creating an alley court in the building We can shield these functions from the street view and provide a more pleasant experience walking along the street.

I just want to make sure that if our goal is to pass it, we need to make sure we come up with 20 points. And two of them are slightly under the staff recommendation. So this deals with being able to hide the dumpsters And an alley functions, whereas right now it's not being hidden at all. They recommended three to staff.

The developer requested three. The staff gave two. I would give three. I would still agree with staff.

I mean, I think it's great that the alley is going to look better. You know, I think somebody said that alleys are used widely in this neighborhood. So I think it's wonderful. to have the improved appearance of the alley and moving the dumpsters, but I would just agree with two.

Two. Also two. Carolyn? Agree with staff on this.

Yeah. Okay. That is two. I would also just say that I think it's important for everybody to understand too that It is not our goal to give the developer 20 points.

It is the developer's job to present those points, so I just want to clarify what was said. And then since this is a boilerplate of public benefit, I would like to add another request if that's possible. I guess the max is three to give three. and it's for this public benefit, if a building comes in and a plan comes in and a use comes in that really benefits the neighborhood, makes it a more vibrant neighborhood, brings more people on the streets, gives better opportunity for Daman to be passed to the next generation of younger people to be able to enjoy a glass of wine or a latte or a nice juicy hamburger, or ice cream, or whatever it is, and to have a building that is really nice, I can't think of a public benefit that is better than the concrete thing that we are talking about in the past.

And I really think we should give it three points because if we think they're really adding something to a neighborhood, let's say they're adding something to the livelihood of the neighborhood, to giving it life. for the contribution to the neighborhood as a whole, to making it vibrant and giving it a longer life. I mean, I absolutely appreciate your comments, Bob. And I do think that if the project were to go forward, that it would provide, be a wonderful addition to the neighborhood.

But I just think that all those feelings you have expressed have kind of already been, you know, incorporated into more kind of objective ideas. objective areas that we've already kind of given points for. And I think also too, I mean, it seems like I don't, again, it's because I think I was outvoted at the beginning. So I think we're still...

Right, so we like to keep it as whole numbers. So I was tracking it as you went. So the first item, we had four people give it a five and two people give it a three slash four, more of a three, maybe a four. So in that scenario, if you went with the five, everything else was very straightforward.

That gets you to 21 points is what you've recommended using those whole numbers. I really admire what Bridget says, because I really respect everything she says. And it always makes sense. But as I've been on the planning commission You know, we always come back to what makes a neighborhood?

What makes it breathe? What gives it heart? It's more than just adding a new building. It's more than trying to make as many parking spaces as you can, perhaps.

There is something like the soul of a neighborhood. And it is so hard to make it work. And I think Ellen has pulled a rabbit out of a hat trying to keep the old buildings, make them nicer, fill out the back and add vibrancy to the neighborhood. And that intangible, or whatever you want to call it, I think is independent of everything else and is so key.

In the comprehensive plan, we talk about why is Clayton downtown safe? This building will help give life, which there already is, but continue it and build on it. But I respect what you said. No, I would agree with you, Bob.

They don't need the three points. They've already met what their requirement is. i guess they have by the rounding off yeah so you know i agree but okay i i just wanted to say that yeah i agree okay carolyn you want to add anything Really? You're going to ask me that?

Honestly, I would like to say I respect what you said. I think everybody has their own opinion of what good is. OK, so I think we need to. That's why we have this system right now.

Everybody has a different opinion of what they think good is and what is good for the environment, what is good for anything. So I appreciate what you said. I don't have an argument with it, but I'm saying that that's why we have this in place. that is exactly why we have all of this in place so that we can discuss this.

So to me, I feel like while, you know, I might think that the demon thing is wonderful, another person might not, and we need to have that discussion. And that's exactly what I'm saying. So it's actually kind of cool that you brought all of that up because at some point, you know, you have to like educate the public almost to that, you know, why, who gets to say who gets to say, and I completely agree with that. I think there is an educated guess for, you know, for the most of us.

I mean, most of us are going in, you know, I mean, my goodness, I went to, you know, University of Pennsylvania and studied under Ian McCarg and James Corner. And yeah, I have a good idea of what good is. But is my idea of good right for Clayton? And I think that's really important for us to have the variety that we have on the board here.

And there's nothing more perfect than that. And mic drop. With that, we have... three things we need to approve tonight so we do we do have one hand up if you would like to still entertain we haven't officially closed the public hearing yet is there somebody else wants to talk yeah uh anthony you back on uh no i don't have another issue okay is there anyone else with any comments to make before we go into uh reviewing the motions okay then we'll close the public hearing at this time uh with that uh members of the of the board we have a blue pink and yellow Sorry, if you look at the agenda, it outlines numbers three through seven.

The rezoning is the PUD? Yes. Which one is it? The first one is the rezoning.

I can't hear, sorry. They have not made any motions yet. Oh, thank you, Anna. The first one we have to take into consideration for vote is the rezoning, the yellow one.

The rezoning for the plan unit development and site plan review, the staff, and may I just say, I think the points average 20 tonight, that would be acceptable. It was 21 based on the first one being over four and a half. So round that up to five. Is there anyone with regard to that prepared to make a motion?

I can make an emotion, with respect to the to recommend approval of the rezoning and plan you didn't development to the Board of aldermen with the following conditions i'm assuming that developers saw the three condition. First impacts of sidewalk closures and temporary pedestrian path requirements. She'll be evaluated by Public Works prior to issuing a demolition permit and, again, prior to issuing a building permit. Number two, all signage shall comply with Chapter 425, signage unless a separate sign district specifically for this project is developed and approved by the Architectural Review Board.

Number three, lighting facilities shall comply with applicable city codes and shall be arranged in a manner which will protect roadways and neighboring properties from direct glare or other interference. Is there a second? Second. Second.

Take a vote. Ayes. Aye. Ayes.

It's so approved. The next one is combining the two. So the next one would be site plan. So Bridget's the same.

Yep, yep. I'm just going to make a motion to approve the site plan review as submitted. Second. Second.

Ayes. Aye. Yeah. So approved.

Next. Next would be the architectural review. Actually, yeah. Yeah, next.

Architectural review. And I will just make a motion to, um, approve the staff recommendation as submitted. Any second. Let's take a vote.

Ayes. Aye. So approved. And then the last thing is the minor subdivision plat.

So I'll make a motion to recommend approval to the Board of Aldermen with the following conditions. Number one, that the applicant provides a MILR with the surveyor's signature and the property owner's signature for the appropriate City of Clayton signatures per the subdivision ordinance requirements after Board of Alderman approval. And number two, approval of this plat is concurrent with and intended solely to facilitate redevelopment of subject properties as authorized by the rezoning and plan unit development approval ordinance. adopted concurrently herewith, which rezoning and PUD approval is subject to lapse and the time limit specified in the city's land use regulations section 405.1460.

Accordingly, if the plat approved hereby is not filed with the St. Louis County Recorder of Deeds prior to the deadline and the time limit applicable to the rezoning and Pud ordinance aforesaid the approval An authorization for filing of a plat shall lapse and this ordinance shall be of no further force and effect. And number three, that the applicant files the plat with the St. Louis County Recorder of Deeds Office prior to application for construction or demolition permits for the property as approved under the rezoning and plan unit development ordinance.

Second. Take a vote. Ayes. Aye.

So passed. And that concludes all the motions regarding the hotel project. So congratulations, and we wish you good luck. Tyler, thank you for taking us through it.

You did a great job explaining everything to us. And this concludes the motion to adjourn. Second. Ayes.

Aye. Nays. We're done. Thank you for attending.

Machine-generated transcript — may contain errors.

Make sure your cell phones turned off and electric devices. We will have an opportunity for public comments tonight after the presentation. And I'm really talking about the Munn area in the hotel. After the presentation by the architect and whoever else wants to speak on behalf of the developer, everybody will have an opportunity to make comments if they so choose, okay?

We may have some people on Zoom too, and they'll be given permission to speak. When you do come up to speak, please give your name and address so we will know who it is that is speaking. Okay. Let's have a roll call.

Steve Lichtenfeld. Carolyn Gatiss. Richard McAndrew. Here.

Bob Denlow. Here. Helen DeFay. Here.

Jamie Wallman. Here. David Gipson? Here.

Okay, we have a quorum tonight and we will proceed. The next item on the agenda is the minutes from our meeting on March 18th, 2024. You have them in front of you. Are there any changes to the minutes?

If not, I will entertain a motion. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of March 18, 2024. Second. All those in favor?

Aye. All those opposed? It passes. We have three basic properties to discuss tonight.

The first one is at 7639 West Moreland Avenue, Joy Stinger, dealing with a front yard fencing issue. Is there anyone here on behalf of the petitioner? Is that? Hello, Stephanie Sato.

Is there anyone on the monitor? Yes. Are you here for the Westmoreland Avenue? Yes.

Okay. Do we want to go and do the summary first? The property is located at the northeast corner of North Hanley and Westmoreland. It is zoned R2 and is developed with a two-story single-family home.

The location on the corner provides street frontage on both the west and south sides. The property primarily faces Westmoreland. The rear yard has a six-foot-high wood fence, part of which is along Hanley. The applicant is seeking to replace the fence with a similar one, as well as portions of an existing four-foot fence in the rear yard.

The fence would be made of wood, be set back by an existing planter bed by roughly three feet, and reach six feet in height. Properties along Hanley use a variety of screening for dual frontage, including plantings, retaining walls, and fencing. Adjacent properties use similar six-foot fencing to screen their yards. Given that the applicant is seeking to replace an existing fence with a similar one and the prevalence of existing fencing nearby, staff are of the opinion that the proposed fence will result in a minimal visual impact and recommend approval as submitted.

Okay. Thank you very much, Ryan. Mr. Sato, are you there?

Yes. OK, but I understand basically you're on the corner of Westmoreland and Hanley and you want to do a six foot privacy fence on your corner lot where you basically push out the backyard, which is treated as a front yard. Is that correct? Yes.

OK. Do you want to make any comments before we entertain any discussion in a vote? The only thing I would say is that the fence that we are putting there or we are planning to replace it with will be same exact fence that's there now. Okay.

And how long has that fence been there? According to our customer, about 25 to 30 years. Okay. Okay.

Thank you. Okay. Sato, I don't have a problem with it. I understand you're going to have a three-foot setback from the sidewalk?

Yes. Okay. To me, I can just consider that pretty important so there's breathing room so people can walk and feel there's a wall right along next to them. Otherwise, I have no problems with it.

Richard? Richard? Yeah, I don't have any problems either, especially it's on Hanley. So certainly Mrs.

Stinger. Mrs. Stinger lives just down the street from me. So yeah, the fence has been there forever, at least as long as I've lived on my street.

So I'd certainly be in support of her just replacing what is an old fence that needs to be repaired and replaced. So no problems. Okay. Next.

No problems. Next. Can we? No issues.

Okay. Do we have a motion to... Bob, do you want to ask if there's anyone in the audience before you? Any comments on this one in the audience?

We hear no one and I see no one on the monitor. Okay. Next motion. I will make a motion to approve the staff recommendation as submitted.

vote second second guys call for a vote hi hi i'm here hi hey carolyn how are you yeah sorry about that uh lovely traffic so yeah i'm here all right well we'll just continue going sure uh next we have um Let's see the patio 315 North central Avenue is the petitioner here for the patio. We're going to first hear a summary of what your proposal is and your name by just so I know Michelle okay. Properties located on the West side of North central Avenue just north of Kingsbury Boulevard. Property is zoned R3 and is developed with a two-story single-family home.

The applicant is seeking to construct a rear patio with an outdoor kitchen. The proposed patio would result in a total impervious lot coverage of 56%. Section 4052040 limits impervious coverage to 55%. The plan Commission may permit an additional 5% up to a maximum of 60% or an applicant can demonstrate just cause.

Existing rear yard consists of landscaping and open space with no rear patio the applicant seeks to surround the new patio with a natural landscaping to reduce irrigation runoff and chemical needs. The project scope does not require formal landscaping or stormwater review and no such criteria were required or provided. Staff are of the opinion that no just cause has been identified and recommends tabling the application to a future meeting date to allow the applicant to make revisions or provide additional information. Okay, thank you.

Michelle, you want to come on up? Michelle, what I understand is you want to put a patio and an outdoor kitchen in your backyard. Correct, in the client's backyard. And so much of the grass, open land has to be available.

This is a case where the statute requires no more than 55%. Yes. And you have 56%. This is the famous criminal case of 1%.

Okay. And, um, what I understand is we have the discretion provided there's cause or reason or something like that. And, uh, to to waive that and to allow you the extra one percent this is how i understand it that's the way i understand okay you got the floor michelle and the client is asking for a patio to be built again the dimensions when you look at it it looks like we're about 37 square feet over our allotment so the homeowner would like to proceed with that size that we have on the plan um It's a patio at the bottom of stairs. They don't have any kind of landing or anything at the point.

It just exits onto grass currently. And so they're hoping to add something that they can put some patio chairs or something in there because they don't have anything in the backyard at this time. And then the kitchen is part of that connected to the patio. Yeah.

If I can ask, to go from 55% to 56%, how many square feet are we talking about? My understanding, it's about 37. That, I guess, is what I was told because I did not know. So my understanding is about 37 square feet less.

And so what that would do to the patio is currently it's about, the steps are 16 feet across and the patio is proposed to be 10 foot 6 deep from the bottom riser out. So we would then, to take the 37 square feet, we would potentially have to go about, the dimensions would then be eight foot by 16 feet. We'd have to take about two to two foot six off that 10 foot six length is about what I've calculated in order to take the 37 squared feet out. So maybe one row of spheres or something.

Yeah, I mean like, yeah, the width of a little bit wider than the select term and then basically it's the length of the stairs is 16 feet already and it's already built they come off the back of the house um it's it's by a vote of everybody we we decided we want to waive this one percent or we want to keep a strict conformity the statute ordinance says we have discretion on this up to a certain amount and this is within the certain amount michelle personally um I can live with a 1%, but I'm only one voice. And we have more educated people up here than me. So next. Um, I, you know, I know 1% sounds minuscule, but you know, there's a reason we kind of stick to 55%.

I mean, I was kind of hoping that there was some structural reason or something that you were telling. And it, I know it's only 1%, but it's a pretty, I mean, it's a significant area, you know, given that the lot, given that I guarantee like, you know, your clients live in a new home and I'm sure there's not a ton of green space in the backyard. Yeah. just in terms of, you know what I mean?

Like the lots are in Old Town are filled to the brim. You know, again, within, you know, the bounds of the 55%. So I was kind of hoping that you were going to give me some reason or something, you know, or if there was some way that we could make some of the pavers permeable or, you know, something that would kind of, cause you know, 55% then becomes 57% or 58%, you know, and then it's 3%. And you know what I mean?

I think there's a kind of a line for a reason. So just a little concerned without some sort of. Well, I've talked to the client about permeable pavers and they, that is not something, it doesn't go with the look that they're going for, but they also have said that, you know, They don't want to lose the ability to do the patio so that if it is something that we have to compromise by pushing that in, they would rather get that approval so that we can just move forward is where they are. So, you know what I mean?

I would love to say and be able to go back to them and say that we got it at the 10 foot six. But we've also had discussions that that may not be possible. And they would they've sort of they are realizing they may have to compromise on that. yeah i just we have water water problems everywhere and people are constantly talking to me about water problems so it's just yeah so i mean but again i'm only one vote so i understand happy death okay i'm wondering on the letter that you wrote to ryan the city of clayton you say we would like to request the additional five percent impervious coverage allowance up to a maximum of 60%.

So I don't want that. My understanding is that it's written as up to 60%. That's by no means what we want. We want potentially just that 1% to allow us.

But if you read the section, it said like that. So my understanding is what I was requesting what would meet my patio needs, not the full 60. But because it's worded legally like that, that's what I thought I had to put in there, so. Do you feel comfortable if we were to restrict, if it was approved, if, to 56%?

Oh, yes, yes, yes. Completely. Okay. I would tend to agree with Bridget on that, that it's where do you stop You know 1% well mine's only one and a half percent but then I only want a half a percent more to sell, I would agree with Bridget.

Just in your letter, you had also mentioned about possibly removing something like... There's currently edging around the beds that are there. That will all be removed because we're basically the whole... It's going to be garden in the back.

So there's no need for differentiation between planting beds and sod, which is there right now. And so all that edging will be removed. So you're... considering moving 33 square feet of pervious ground cover and then you just want to go over 37 so we're talking about like four square feet okay so if that's the case then I would be okay with that um I am in agreement because I know there's water issues and everything um so that's where I would stand I would say if you are willing to remove or give that back 33 square feet then I would The original plan, there were flagstone to connect to the side and that was removed when the revision was done back.

So that and the edging are basically all being taken out and it will all be basically plantings and things like that with no additional except for the proposed patio. Okay. And Anna, why were you guys tabling this or suggesting that? So we recommended that in most of the requests for additional coverage under this clause, people either provide the permeable pavers or they provide additional information about their plantings to show how these plantings would act as a rain garden or something else to supplement it.

And so in this instance, there wasn't some of that background that Ryan referred to. And so instead of denying it, we recommended tabling to allow them to answer any more questions if you had them here. Got it. So I guess, yeah, to me, if you were taking out the 33 and adding the 37, I would be okay with it.

But I don't know if that calculation has to be re-figured out to get an approval. If you make specific motions to that effect, then we can handle it as staff. If there are more general questions about what their proposed plan is and how it handles stormwater, so for example, there are not stormwater calculations associated with what they provided with us today so if that's something that you want then we would likely say we would prefer that to come back to the board rather than staff make the decision but if it's something smaller where you say a certain number of square feet would be allowed then then ryan can handle that on staff review i don't want to make this seem like a mountain from a molehill this is not a big project but we would like to try to accommodate you the best we can and see that you get what you want You may want to consider just tabling us the next one and cross your T's, dot your I's with the staff here. They're great to work with.

If we would propose to reduce the patio, would that be something that would then need to come back? If you make alterations where you meet the 55%, then you do not need to come back to this board for approval. We would just process the permit that you've already applied for. Can you confirm exactly what that number is that needs to be Is that, you know what I mean?

Like where at 56 and 55, what is that square footage that you guys are calling that? I think Ryan had told me 37. I just want to make sure that that's what it is. So if someone could just confirm the square footage.

Yes, typically that would be a calculation that you would run as well. But if the drawings are to scale, if you've run it, Ryan, he can provide that for you. I think we've come up with different square footages. Okay.

So that's, I just want to make sure that we've hit the number. We'd like to see you cross, cross the finish line here. I would, the staff is recommending the table is so just sit down with them. And if you're going to go permeable a little bit or not, or if it's just a foot or so difference at the end of the day, I think nobody's going to complain.

I think, uh, the planning commission is, uh, always confronted with water runoff issues every time a project comes to us it's just a huge issue in most communities including blatant so um do you have a problem if we just table it the staff has recommended the application be tabled to a future meeting date to allow the applicant to make whatever revisions are necessary. Correct. In working with the staff? Yes.

Is that okay? Yes. Perfect. Do we have a motion to table?

Motion to table to a future meeting date to allow the applicant to consider revisions or work with the staff to provide additional information. Second. Second. Ayes?

Aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you.

Thank you, Michelle. Okay. Next, we have the star attraction for tonight. Okay.

We have the hotel proposal in the Daman area. Is Sheila Miranda here? Tyler, are you the one doing the talking? Okay.

Let's talk about that there are three things we have to vote on tonight. dealing with the combination of the plat, dealing with the architectural review and the HUD review where we have to go through a table list to see if it meets a certain criteria of what we call the points to go forward with the project. So, Brian, you want to give us a second? First, just so everybody in the audience is clear, we have an application for rezoning, application for planned unit development and the associated development plan, application for site plan review, application for architectural review, and an application for a minor subdivision plat, all associated with the same project.

Okay. Chairman, if you would like two of those required public hearings, the rezoning request and the planned unit development, if you'd like to open those public hearings before we begin. Before we begin? So just open the public hearing and then we'll present them.

Do I have to make a motion for that? No. Are we having a public hearing right now? So you do whatever you have to do.

Okay. With further ado, Ryan. This request is for a public hearing regarding a proposed planned unit development and associated rezoning, flat site plan review, and architectural review. Proposed project consists of the consolidation of 726 and 734 DeMunn Avenue, rezoning of the lot to a PUD, renovation of the existing buildings, demolition of the rear accessory structures, and construction of a new rear addition.

The existing site contains three-story mixed-use buildings with ground floor commercial and residential on the upper floors. Adjacent uses consist of similar mixed-use or multifamily structures. The PUD consists of a mixed-use hotel with ground floor retaining commercial uses, and the upper floor is being converted into a 24-unit hotel. Conceptual review took place in January of 2023, and a community conference was held in February 2023.

The purpose of the PUD process is to foster appropriate use of existing buildings and enable compatible redevelopment, which provides public benefits as identified in Section 405.1380 and achieves the objectives outlined in Section 405 1360. A PUD must provide these public benefits to the surrounding neighborhoods and to the city above and beyond what can be reasonably achieved by application of the zoning provisions of the original zoning district. Resounding to a mixed-use PUD is allowed for hotels containing a public restaurant in the C1 district per Section 405-2900A4. The project seeks relief from certain development standards set forth in the C1 District.

Table one in the PUD staff report identifies the standards and proposed alternatives. Table two provides the proposed public benefits. The applicant requires a minimum of, the application requires a minimum of 20 public benefits points and the applicant has proposed 25. Staff have evaluated 20 benefit points.

An analysis by both the applicant and the staff are identified in table two of the staff report. The project is located at the center of the Dumont neighborhood which contains a greater population density than others in Clayton and has a concentration of neighborhood commercial activity. existing structure which currently contains 16 residential units would be renovated and expanded to become 24 hotel rooms the use of a hotel proportional in size and scale to the neighborhood would likely contribute to a local commercial activity while limiting impact on neighborhood character additionally the proposed addition is of consistent masking materials to that of the surrounding structures staff have the opinion that the renovation and use of the site as proposed is proportional compatible to the neighborhood and surrounding area Mechanical equipment would be shielded on the roof by a parapet. Site coverage and runoff would not change.

Surrounding street trees would be preserved. The applicant has stated that the existing commercial will be able to remain operational during renovation. The applicant proposes five on-site spaces and 30 spaces leased from Concordia. The parking study found that this will be sufficient to support peak parking demand.

Guests will have the option to valet or self-park, and the hotel staff will be directed to use off-site parking on the Concordia site. The traffic study found that the new use is likely to generate 15 fewer trips during peak hours. Bike racks and storage are proposed in the rear alley and in the center court. Staff do not anticipate adverse impact regarding public infrastructure, utilities, emergency services, noise, light, or odor.

The existing building and surrounding area are characterized with red brick and stone accents. Much of the exterior will remain unchanged with storefronts receiving new finishes. The three-story addition at the rear of the property will feature red brick on the ground floor and limestone on the second and third levels. The hotel lobby entrance facing North Risbury Avenue would project out from the facade and will be clad with red panels and trim.

The addition will have doors and windows matching those proposed for the existing structure. Redwood gates would enclose the trash storage along the rear alley. Staff are of the opinion that the development meets the PUD and site plan review criteria, meets the architectural review guidelines, and of a scale and massing consistent and appropriate with the surrounding area and will be visually compatible. Staff recommends that the plan commission recommend approval of the minor subdivision plat rezoning and PUD to the board of Alderman with conditions identified in the staff reports.

And staff recommend that the plan commission and architectural review board approve the site plan review and architectural review as submitted. Okay, with that, Tyler's next, right? This applicant has been here before us to make a presentation just so everybody knows to give us an idea of what the plans were. And I know you've had meetings in the community to discuss your proposal and you're back.

Back. And we're glad to see you. I assume you want to take all of it all at once. Yes.

We have a lot of people in the audience tonight, and I think they would like to see what the project looks like and everything from traffic to parking to how's it going to look and what kind of construction you're going to do. And they want to understand how it's good for the community as well. Taylor, you got the floor. And can you give your name and your address, and what is your profession?

Yes, good evening. My name is Tyler Stevens. I'm the principal of Quartan Architecture here on behalf of my client, Ellen Reed, who is also gonna be here. And I'd like to start by letting Ellen just introduce herself, although you've already met her, of course, but she would just like to say some opening words.

And then I will resume from there, Ellen. Hello, good evening, everyone. My name is Ellen Reed. Thank you for having me back today.

I see a lot of familiar faces. I am a 20-year Clayton resident, 20 plus year now, I'm getting old, and business owner. I'm excited to be here tonight to continue to share our vision for Hotel Le Mans. Our goal, our overarching goal, is to restore and beautify a small block along DeMunn Avenue and create a charming 24-unit boutique hotel, what we've named Hotel DeMunn.

It's no secret, I'm a huge fan of the DeMunn neighborhood and holds a very special place in my heart. It's neighborhood that I used to live in where both of my sons were born and where I continue to spend all my free time visiting my favorite coffee shops, restaurants, retail, taking walks in the park. So you see me there on most weekends when I'm not working. Hotel DeMunn has been designed to be a celebration of the neighborhood and all of the unique features that it offers.

Unique architecture, walkability, vibrancy, diversity, and access to all of our favorite local establishments. I envision Hotel du Monde as a place where the neighbors, locals, as well as visitors alike can enjoy and celebrate all the features that we love so much about this neighborhood. Also a community gathering place to enjoy the new restaurants and retail that Hotel du Monde will incorporate. My personal mission statement has always been to make a positive impact on the people and places that have impacted me.

DeMunn is certainly one of them, as is Clayton as a whole. As we've designed the project, we've continued to keep that mission at heart, and I want both the community and staff and everyone to know that I'm committed to Clayton, I'm committed to making this a successful project, and I'm committed to being a good neighbor. We've been very thoughtful about our design and spent a lot of time. I hope that everyone loves it as much as we do.

I'm going to let Tyler go through the specifics of the architecture, the site plan, but I'm also here along with him to answer any questions. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, well, it is good to be back.

And I didn't realize it's been a little over a year. You read the dates earlier and Time flies. So some of this will be a little bit of a reminder just to make sure everybody is up to speed, but probably best. So here, of course, is our site and identifying where it is Ellen mentioned that this is the middle of the neighborhood and and by that we mean that pretty literally.

You'll see in the street plans how the demand neighborhood when it was laid out all kind of rings around this property. I don't think it was as important in the past as it has become and will be in the future. I just want to point out, just because I like saying this, that like Ellen, I have been in Daman for a long time as well. If you look down in the bottom right corner there, right there, that's the first condo that I ever designed in Clayton some 25 years ago or so.

So Daman has been a good place to be. Here is the existing property. There are two buildings. They were built slightly at different times and there is actually a gap between them, although very small.

And we will be, what we're proposing is to combine these two buildings together. So it would be all one structure. They do have different floor levels. So it'd be some internal stairs and various things to work this out.

But the fact that they both sit up on demand close to the street and define the block makes it easy to then add on behind them. And so that is what we are proposing, all of the back will be new. This rendering has been going around for a while and this is our vision of what is Hotel du Monde. And the main thing that I like to point out is that in terms of the past and the future, there's not a whole lot of change other than some very good aesthetic cleanup.

We're gonna be doing various things with the windows, Right now, the windows vary in size and placement. We'll be unifying some of them, extending some of them down. We have this theme of little balconies, Juliet balconies as they're called, across so that every room will have some terrace doors. That will be kind of how they're organized.

The ability to open them up, enjoy the views and the breezes and all of that. And that helps to marry the two buildings together. We want them to appear as one, even though the architecture is slightly different. So those balconies definitely help.

And then also unifying the storefront down on the bottom. The storefront will all be unified in color. We have two different window colors that we're proposing here on the building. And notice that everything on the first floor commercial is this kind of deep red color.

I have samples of all this stuff because I know you like to see it for ARB. It's over on the side. I can bring it up later. when you're deliberating.

But that red color is on the bottom for the commercial, and it's kind of the signature color of the hotel. It's in all of the marketing pieces as well. Then the windows up above in the existing structure will be a charcoal color, which sets them off with the brick a little bit. So that's the main change in terms of the front of the building.

You'll see some other little touches like there are canopies over the door. These doors, by the way, are the original entrances to the building. There are two, one on each side and they're under those big tall windows. These will remain as doors.

They lead to the stairwells inside the building, but these will not be the main entrance to the hotel. That's going to be around on the new part. I'll show you that in a minute. So these will be functional doors for the guests who stay there.

They'll be locked, but you'll have a room, you know, card access that you could come and go if you're going out that direction. Placement of the neighborhood as you can see this is what I was talking about it being a center north and south Roseberry kind of divide it. And then across we have this wonderful setting of the park Concordia Seminary, which makes for a nice kind of presentation of this whole street along demand. And then we'll talk later when we get to parking, but just so everybody knows, this is the parking lot that the seminary has agreed to allow use of.

And Ellen has an agreement put in place with them for that. It's a good location. I mean, at first, when I... When we first talked about it, I was hoping they'd give us this parking lot right here.

But I can see this is their main parking for their main presentation hall up here. And this actually works better because the pathways that lead right to the front of the hotel kind of go in this direction. And so when we had our neighborhood meetings, we had them here at the seminary right in this building right there. And so we all went out and walked it and stood up there and It was at night, and you could very easily standing right here in the parking lot see because it's kind of uphill from from the street see down the slope to demand and very visible to the building itself so I don't think that navigation will be an issue for anyone coming and going.

This drawing shows the main building kind of in pink, the two buildings that are existing there, and then the red is the addition that we're proposing. It is a courtyard type of addition which allows some light on the center to get to existing windows and existing rooms that are in the back. We'll kind of circle around that. I said that this addition is all in the back.

The current condition of the alley is one of, there were originally garages for the building. They have not been functional as garages for a long time. So essentially they're storage units at this point. And it's not very sightly.

And because of the nature of the site going through the block to both North and South Roseberry, this is a very visible area. As you walk down those streets, you see right down this alley and right through the block to the trash cans and the various things, the storage of something flammable. So it's definitely an area to be cleaned up And so by building the addition here, we can take down the garage. We can clean up things like you'll see this fire escape stair that was added onto the back of the building.

All that will be gone and unify it so that all the way around, it looks like one cohesive mass. This is some other views. The picture on the left, I'm actually standing on South Roseberry. So this is very visible to the street, what you see looking in with all the utilities and everything too, which is another thing that we can clean up.

When you get around to North Roseberry, if you look to the right here, this is the side of the existing building as we come around. And this is the addition in the back. So our proposed entrance to the hotel. One of the reasons why it's been a year since we've been here is because we've spent a lot of time, Ellen and I have spent a lot of going back and forth on what is the right architecture for this building.

I had a conversation with Steve Lichtenfeld early, early on a long time ago about and he that's one of the things he asked he's like what's Tyler what's this going to look like. I hope you're not going to make a copy of the existing building. Those were his words. And I know that that has been consistent in Clayton in the past, in terms of when we build new, it's good to have something that is different than the original.

We cannot, in today's time, really replicate historic architecture anyway. The different materials, the trades, the skills, it's a different time period. So we wanted to make it look different than the existing buildings, but we did go back and forth as to whether it should be modern or traditional. And there were a lot of pros and cons for both.

In the end, what we decided to do was a more traditional type design that would blend into a little bit more of the historic charm of the neighborhood and stick out as something modern and different. But by using different materials, the limestone, which limestone is a very traditional material, but covering the the building in it rather than brick. And then this first floor, these sets of bay windows on either side of the entry door is what it is. It's really this box that projects out, which is a very traditional kind of approach you see, especially in Europe to these little neighborhood hotels.

This is a common type of approach. treatment of it. It allows the windows on either side of the door to kind of approach out towards the sidewalk that recesses the entry. So now it's covered and welcoming draws you into the building.

And then on the roof, we have the ability to soften it even more playing up on this theme of the the Juliet balconies with some plantings and rooftop landscaping, if you will. All of that material here, since it is a structurally, when you look at these historically, the masonry, which would be the structural mass of the existing building, would be at this line right here. Just like the existing building has a triple-wide brick wall coming down, that is a masonry mass. Masonry masses have limited holes punched in them.

They usually don't fly. You don't float masonry over things. And so this limestone reads as the same type of masonry mass. We keep it in the same plane.

Then when you have projections beyond that, things that float, think about bay windows, for instance, a bay window projecting off of a masonry box. Those are often, well, almost always they're not masonry because it's hard to, you wouldn't do a bay window out of masonry. It's hard to hold that up. Similarly here, these boxes that project on the bottom, we use a trim material, composite trim material that makes these nice panels.

It's very much in the nature of what would be wood if this was built hundreds of years ago. We do a lot of composite panels now so that they last longer. And then that also allows us to introduce the color. I said this is a signature color of the hotel.

It was specifically chosen because it's kind of the blend of the bricks that are on there, the flavor of the brick and kind of what we thought is the feel of the neighborhood. So that's where this color comes from. As you move around to the side now, you can see along the back how the back is cleaned up. We do have five on-site parking spaces as was mentioned.

Those are right here tucked under. This front piece that is the lobby wraps around. You'll see some windows on the side. That way when you're walking down the street, you have a nice kind of return to the corner, some windows into the lobby and then the actual parking commences from there.

This side back here becomes a feature wall. We've talked different things about what's on the inside, what's on the outside, how it kind of views through. And we're still working on the lobby design inside. So I know that's not part of what we're talking about.

But I wanna draw your attention to this part way back here in the back. You see some more red there. That is a trash enclosure, which I'll show you and plan here in a minute. All of those dumpsters that are currently on the alley can be put inside the trash enclosure and then gates pulled across them to visually clean up the entire back.

So it's a much more pleasant alley to go down, which is important for the hotel as well because the patrons will be directed to approach that way. I'll show you our driving pattern here in a minute. The rest of the lines, the banding, the window details, all that pull from the existing building in a complimentary way, although not copying. This gives you just an idea of the other elevation.

You see that back here, those gates. for the trash. And then on the other side, on South Roseberry, as it turns around, here is where we actually will match the brick and create a base. So similar to the base we're doing on the other side that's covered in the trim to tie it all together.

And then the limestone wraps around there as well. So the whole back is sort of like the U shape of limestone coming around. You can see the cleaning up the windows as well. There are a couple pieces on top.

We'll talk about these in a minute. There's a stairwell. enclosure that rises up and then the elevator, we're putting in a new elevator that will rise up as well. That's what you see poking at the top.

And that's due to, we want to have the ability to have rooftop access. Rooftop access is very important to people these days. And so this is a natural to want to be able to do something with the roof. We do not have a proposal at this time in terms of, this is certainly Well, I can tell you one thing about it that we know for sure.

We wanted to provide the infrastructure to get there, but we're only taking one stair up. And when you have one stair up, then the code limits you to 49 people. So that's the scale we're talking about. This is not hundreds of people on a roof having a Mardi Gras party.

This is maximum of 49. And they would mostly be either we'll have some seating from the restaurant. Maybe it's like a little restaurant atop or an amenity for the hotel itself. Just quickly, I'll go through the plans so you can kind of see.

This is the existing site plan. You can see here is the scale of the garages across the back and where they sit relative to the alley and the trash dumpsters, the various stairs and things coming off the back. Our new plan will sit like this. You can see that here's the parking space.

We will maintain some retail in this back along South Roseberry. This is retail that is not there today. That's a blank brick wall. So we're increasing the retail on South Roseberry.

And that's kind of a trade because we're taking away the retail that was on North Roseberry. There's a little shop in the back corner there as well. So that can trade down to here if it wants, or it could be something different, whatever, however it works out. The other retail spaces will remain as is, as Ellen said, with the exception of on the corner is currently the laundromat.

And the laundromat has not been really functional in a long time. So the laundromat will go away and that's what's going to become the new hotel bistro, I'll call it. I got a picture for you here. So instead of the laundromat, you can off the lobby, we can have a little bistro that could be a breakfast kind of thing that morphs over into a lounge at night.

This would be open to the public. So that was one of the questions that was in the neighborhood presentations we had earlier. That was one of the people want to make sure that this is all part of amenity for the public and the lobby of hotels is generally open. The second floor here, you can see some rooms.

This typical layout. This is one exception where we've got a big unit that we're going to cut in half, but the rest of them are all pretty much that same size. I want to reiterate what was read earlier in the end. This is a 24 room hotel.

And I know that was one of the biggest concerns when we had the neighborhood meetings. When people hear the word hotel, they immediately think of their own experiences with hotels. And usually those are large. You either have a downtown hotel that's a high rise.

You might have a holiday inn on the side of, you know, or something on the side of the highway. Those have at least 100 rooms, that kind of scale. This is 24 rooms. So very small.

They're currently 18, right? 14. And so we're increasing it 10, that type of scale. When we add on to the back, it will be laid out like this.

We have a general circulation and hallway that will connect the two together and turn it into one building. There's the stairs that makes up the difference in the floor levels. A new elevator in the back that will serve everything so that it's accessible. And then that courtyard remains so that these units in the middle can still have their windows looking out.

We can also have windows in the hallway looking into the courtyard. Should be a really nice and pleasant approach. Just to talk for a second. Sorry, Carolyn, get us.

Oh, yes. It's kind of like the Moonrise Hotel, which is wonderful, has done a lot for Del Mar. this will be a great addition to that area. So I don't know that you need to apologize for any of it.

I think it's a wonderful project. I have no stake in it at all. I'm with Wolpert. I'm a landscape architect.

I have nothing to do with any of this. But honestly, I mean, it's like the moonrise. Whenever people come to visit me, I'm like, that's where you're staying. Unless, you know, of course they're in my house.

But I'm like, I would never put people up into, you know, like a Hilton. or whatever I would put them at the moonrise this is better so I literally think this is going to help the city so thank you carolyn and and i could say on behalf of all of us we all need a place to put our crazy cousin who comes on from out of town instead of our own home i don't even yeah no like the moon rises is a good comparison in terms of a neighborhood hotel kind of thing um Yes, I'm not. I don't mean to sound apologetic. I was more just reminding everyone of scale because I know sometimes it gets out of proportion.

Made it that way. But it seems like you have to sell it. And to me, you don't have to sell it from New England and Philadelphia and Boston area. To me, this is a no brainer.

So there's no cell needed to me. I appreciate that. We'll go over the public comments here in a minute where we talk about them. Do you have more you want to add to your comments?

Well, yes. Yeah. Since we worked on this for a year, let's go through it. Sorry if I'm keeping you all from dinner.

I haven't eaten either, so... As much time as you need to educate everybody here. Just again, a reminder of scale. This is that rooftop, the amount of area we're talking about.

So very small. I'll go through it quickly. The public comment portion or the I don't know why I can't remember what those are called. The public meetings we had.

We took down lots of notes. We had two meetings, by the way. We're only required to have one. And we wanted to make sure that everybody had a chance to get there in case they were out of town or something.

So we went ahead and had two. And we took down all the questions from both of those meetings. And there were a lot. There were a lot of comments.

that some of them were concerns, and then there were also a lot of comments that were just questions, and then a handful of, wow, this is something we look forward to. So I tried to just summarize them here, and I'm not going to go through all these four, but I just wanted to let you know that they kind of divided into three categories. The first category had to do with the neighborhood, things like parking and traffic and trash and some concern that demand as it grows becomes unaffordable to people. And then certainly there's always the question of, you know, is this going to increase crime, things like that.

The traffic study more than answered the question of traffic we're actually reducing the number of cars that are going there on daily basis right now. And then the parking lot with the seminary was something that we explained in terms of parking. Another group was about Ellen, basically, or the developer, essentially making sure that, you know, question is she going to retain ownership or is it something that's going to be sold off? You've heard her passion for the neighborhood.

I don't really think Ellen is going anywhere for a while. Not that she's told me. I'd be in trouble if she did. And then things like, are we going to apply for tax credits or things like that that would require various things?

Now, this is not a public project and publicly funded, anything like that. So this is all private investment. The last group had to do with... oh, I would say more forward-looking in terms of questions where people were resolved.

Oh yeah, this is gonna happen. So now I wanna know how long is the construction gonna take? Will the retail still be open? How's it gonna affect things?

So we answered all those questions. So all in all, we were pretty positive coming out of those meetings that certainly there were concerns as everybody has, but it seemed like people were pretty receptive to this project. You know, I usually let the person take us wherever they want, but this is a great exhibit. So can I just address you to some of these things here?

Yes. Stay as long as you want. Because they really want to hear about traffic and parking. If we could address how you resolved the parking today.

I know what you were doing last time. I don't know if anything has changed. but before you were going to go over to the parking lot with everybody and maybe a golf cart to bring them? There were a lot of ideas thrown out around the time.

The way that we kind of set it up and resolved has to do a little bit with when you book the hotel, you're going to get some, you know, you get your information as you always will. One of those pieces of information in your pamphlet will be a kind of a where to go neighborhood what do you call it just a neighborhood navigation yeah and i've got so this is i did this little animation see that well stop right there for one second when somebody pulls up to the i don't want to take away i'm getting there i think i know where you're going somebody pulls up to your hotel are they double parking on the side street there no or is there a place to come in Yeah, that's what I'm getting to these arrows here indicate how people will be directed to approach the entering in and then come around go through the alley, though. Certainly if there's an open parking spot in those five they could take that but on North Roseberry will have three dedicated spaces. on the side there, which are not parking spaces.

They're loading drop-off spaces. A lot of these people come into this hotel will be arriving by Uber or Lyft or something like that. So you need a spot for those people. Let's say somebody is being picked up.

The car needs to sit there for a minute while you're in the lobby looking for them. So we have those three spaces. That's also a great spot. When you come in, you'll Park your car there, walk into the door, check in, get all your keys and whatever information you have.

And then at that point, it becomes one of two things. Do you want to self-park or is somebody in the hotel going to park for you? And people will just come in and get that and they'll have that ability to sit on the street while they make those decisions. kind of decisions and navigation points maybe they drop off their bags in the room kind of thing and then go out take care of the car so those three spaces should be more than adequate to handle that from there you can drive around and just go up and park and walk back so that's how the parking has kind of been resolved and i only bring that up because it's not a short walk At least for me anymore.

I mean, like I said, we were there that night and we did it and walked it and it's not really a long walk. I have been to other hotels like this in other cities where they've given me a parking map that was blocks away. So I thought, I think personally that this is pretty convenient and the fact that you can see it makes it psychologically shorter too. if there is somebody disabled or somebody who didn't get out when they should have gotten out initially at the hotel, have you had any discussions with the city about a golf cart or something to help them get over there?

Will they have to drive the car back to the hotel? We didn't, we're not going down the path of a golf cart just because it takes up spot, take up a parking spot there to put it, you know, you got to store it somewhere. The reality of the numbers, this is, like I said, it's 24 rooms on a given day checking in. And I, we had these numbers at one time.

Do you remember what the projections of people checking in per day were? I think we estimated close to three to four because of occupancy rates and then a reduced amount statistically of travelers versus apartment dwellers. Hey, Ellen, the people online can't hear you unless you need a microphone. Sorry.

A couple of key things about parking. Statistically, the hotel travelers will have a lot less cars than the apartment dwellers. So that's one piece, but it's a great question. Some people will want to self-park.

I timed it and I wanna say it was two and a half minutes. I did time it because I walked it many times myself. It's also well lit. However, if someone is not able to park or does not wanna park, you can have the Hotel Attendant Park for you.

So it's not a problem if somebody prefers not to self-park, they can just have the Hotel Attendent Park for them. A lot of people actually, believe it or not, prefer to self-park particularly because the whole marketing with Hotel de Monde is going to be marketed as you know a neighborhood walking friendly hotel so we do think particularly with the scale of the hotel being 24 units if we're at 80 occupancy if half of those people then have cars And then the duration of the stay is even for three to four days because of the scale of the rooms. We're talking about three to four check-ins a day. So it's a small number, but we do want to be able to assist those who would like someone to park for them or park themselves.

And I know this parking lot is quite large, Ellen. And with Concordia going to relocate its housing on June the Munn side of the campus, this will be the logical place for all the residents of Concordia to be parking in the future. Have you had any discussions with Concordia on that? Concordia, they are still committed to providing parking.

We did request and were able to get, in our opinion, substantially more spaces than we ever think we will need because, again, we're going to have five behind. Right now there's zero parking. 14 units, zero parking. The people just park on the street.

Moving forward, we'll have the five spaces behind. And again, if we think on average, we realistically need under 10 spaces. But in order to have the sufficient parking per code, we wanted to have more than we needed. So reality is we won't need 35 spaces, but we do have access to that.

Very good. Thank you. I know I've taken you off your train of thought there, but I know parking and traffic is a major concern for residents in the area. Yes.

Go ahead. That was pretty much the end of it. Those are the questions and the things that we went through. Let's see.

Yeah. So I'm happy to take questions. Happy to leave it there and we take questions off of whatever you have at this point. Before I open it to the public, I just want to make sure I understand a couple things.

Are there any dramatic changes or any significant changes when you were here a year ago presenting your plan to today? Well, we didn't have any of the entrance worked out back then. We were only talking about the front of the building and what it looks like long to month. So what we did between then and now is go ahead and design that entrance lobby in the back and get that all worked out in terms of the sequencing, the drop-offs.

I'll go back to that floor plan. I didn't spend a lot of time on it there, but you can see getting kind of the door and everything set up, getting these parking spaces, kind of going out, figuring out what's there, what's available. These are those three dedicated drop-off spaces that we talked about, working through that with our submission and the staff and everything. And then the other thing is the trash.

We were before, I had this, what I thought was a great idea to put the trash in the courtyard in here because I'd seen other hotels done that way Nobody agreed with me. Everybody thought that was a terrible idea. And so in the end, I caved and we moved it out to the alley. We took away a little bit of this retail space in here in order to make that happen, but it wasn't that much.

But this introduction of a trash area, dedicated trash area that opens up, that's all new. A little bit of the sequencing of the parking going in is new. So that's primarily what we worked on is how it flows and how it's going to actually logistically work. Now, with regard to the existing commercial you have there, originally I thought you said you guys were going to try to work to keep those open during construction.

Is that still what your case is going to be? It's a goal. We have to do some work to the storefronts and everything so that there's a little bit of disruption there. But there's no reason if you shut down a retail space for a long period of time, the chances of them coming back get less, the longer it's out.

So I got a warning. I am partial to call these in Sasha's and you're going to have a restaurant there on the corner and, and it's going to be coffee. Yeah, restaurant. I mean, it's a very small space.

I can't read the thing up there, but I think it's just over 1,000 square feet or so, 1,500, 1,800. It would be a small restaurant, but the idea is not to compete or drive anybody out of business. That would be counter to what the hotel's mission is, which is to feed this neighborhood. So the bistro, as it's planned, is really...

like I said, a breakfast-y place. Go in, get some coffee, which is not unlike Calde's too. But you've got the patrons of the hotel themselves coming down in the evening. It's another place to sit.

I come down here a lot. We like to go to Louis a lot. And I can tell you, it gets crowded. And there are times when it's hard to get in and maybe they don't have a table for you.

So nice to have additional... I personally believe the vibrancy of Calde's area in part depends upon having multiple places for people to go to and they hang out in the streets for a while or they listen to music on the second floor of Sasha's on the streets. It's just, it's a little piece of heaven in Clayton. I was going to add to that because that's...

all your favorite places are my favorite places. So when I, when my kids and I, or even girlfriends and I like to spend, we will literally spend an entire day at demand because you could start at call these, take the kids to the park, go to the candy store, then maybe have a glass of wine with a friend and you take the kids to Clementine's. Then you walk, then you, then you're hungry again, and then you go eat dinner. So the goal is to curate, and maximize more of what we don't have, we certainly don't want to create another Sasha's or call these.

We already have that. quite frankly, part of the reason I was drawn really key reason to doing this type of hotel is because utilizing the neighborhood gems that we have as part of the selling point of the hotel. And it's a reciprocal relationship. When I travel, you don't necessarily want to go just to the places within the hotel.

What's unique about Daman, it's all independent local restaurant tours and retail. So what we want is more of that. You know, what we will propose in our corner spot is going to be something that we all love. It's not going to be a replication of what's already there.

Well, I mean, I'm going to go to public before I start giving, opening up to us here. Uh-oh. Yeah. Amber alert?

No, we have a tornado alert. I have never been up here with a tornado. I raised my hand because I have been in several in Texas area and I could feel it in both of my cats are like looking at me, like going, why aren't you protecting us? So with this hotel, what happens when there's a storm?

Yeah. Well, thanks Carolyn. David's checking in on that. So we'll continue for right now.

We'll look to see what happens. Okay. But I could feel it. I could feel the barometer drop.

Sure. Ellen, if you'd like to continue, you're welcome to. David's going to check on an emergency plan for us. You know what I was going to say, Ellen?

Sorry. In my own mind, I think your project is the best of many worlds. It keeps what is old and important to our neighborhood, and you're not going up in the air to do it, and you're building in the back, and it looks like It's a beautiful addition you're making. I think you and Steve...

I'll give you the credit, but to me, it works great. The colors, everything. But at the same time, I treasure the candy store, at least my grandchildren do, and the ice cream. We have the mothership of Calde's in our neighborhood, and I can't say enough for that.

And Sasha's is terrific, and Louie's, and everything. and the little clothing store, these are all what makes Daman alive and well and puts people on the sidewalks and on the street. Couldn't agree more. And I think and our buildings are getting tired and old and we have to look to the future and how to recycle them and how, how to, you know, otherwise they just fall down until it's too late.

And I can't say enough how you're risking your money. You're stepping up to the plate and you're being very creative. I only admire so much of what you are doing and, but there are legitimate concerns, you know, parking traffic. And we had to figure out, does it make sense in our neighborhood that, with those components.

If this was Chicago walking away a block, it's no big deal. Guys, I think you need to be safe. I think everybody needs to be safe right now. I can feel it.

I've been in it before. I just went down and talked to the fire department. The cell that's threatening right now is out towards Chesterfield. It's headed this direction but won't be here for a little while.

They were saying golf ball size hail. A little while. Which means go. What they said is if it looks like it's going to threaten the Clayton area, then they'll come up here quickly and I can see somebody over there and then we'll clear out the chambers.

Okay. I'm sorry. I don't mean to panic people, but I've been in several and it's not pretty. honestly my cats are going crazy right now i'm at home and my cats are like spinning around the room which tells me so what do you i think too i mean i i also want to make sure that we're sensitive because we want to hear from the public too so i think if any of you are concerned we have we have a man we have what Okay, great.

Thank you. We're going to stop the recording. We will start it again when we return. Okay.

MINUTES CITY PLAN COMMISSION/ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD April 1 2024 CITY HALL CHAMBERS/ZOOM MEETING

The City Plan Commission/Architectural Review Board of the City of Clayton, Missouri, met on the above date at 17:30 hours at the CITY HALL CHAMBERS/via ZOOM meeting. Upon roll call, the following responded:

PRESENT Carolyn Gaidis (17:35) Bridget McAndrew Bob Denlow (Acting Chair) Helen DiFate Kami Waldman David Gipson, City Manager

ABSENT Steve Lichtenfeld

ALSO IN ATTENDANCE Hobie Kropp, Planning Tech Anna Krane, Planning Director Stephanie Karr, City Attorney

MINUTES Regular meeting of 03/18/2024

Bridget McAndrew made a motion to approve as submitted. Helen DiFate seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

NEW BUSINESS 1. 7639 Westmoreland Avenue – Architectural Review – Exterior Alteration (00:02:00) Consideration of a request by Kim Santoyo, Applicant, on behalf of Joy Stinger, Owner, for review of design and materials associated with front yard fencing.

Ryan Helle provided a summary of the staff report with a staff recommendation to approve as submitted. Sado Cerimovic was present on behalf of the application. PC-ARB discussed the application with the project representative. Bridget McAndrew made a motion to approve as submitted. Helen DiFate seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

2. 315 North Central Avenue – Plan Commission – Additional Coverage (00:06:00) Consideration of a request by Michelle Jansen, Applicant, on behalf of Holly Alden and Charles Eggert, Owners, to allow for additional coverage associated with rear yard alterations.

Ryan Helle provided a summary of the staff report with a staff recommendation to continue the item to allow the applicant to revise the proposal or provide additional information. Michelle Jansen, Applicant, was present. PC-ARB discussed the item with the applicant. Briget McAndrew made a motion to continue the item. Helen DiFate seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

3. PUBLIC HEARING – 726 & 734 De Mun Avenue – Rezoning – New Mixed Use (00:19:00) Consideration of a request by Sheila Miranda, Applicant, on behalf of 728 De Mun LLC, Owner, for review of rezoning the subject properties from C-1 Neighborhood Commercial District to a Planned Unit Development. 4. PUBLIC HEARING - 726 & 734 De Mun Avenue – Planned Unit Development – New Mixed Use Consideration of a request by Sheila Miranda, Applicant, on behalf of 728 De Mun LLC, Owner, for consideration of the terms and conditions of the proposed Planned Unit Development. 5. 726 &734 De Mun Avenue – Site Plan Review – New Mixed-Use Consideration of a request by Sheila Miranda, Applicant, on behalf of 728 De Mun LLC, Owner, for Site Plan Review of the proposed Planned Unit Development. 6. 726 & 734 De Mun Avenue – Architectural Review - New Mixed-Use Consideration of a request by Sheila Miranda, Applicant, on behalf of 728 De Mun LLC, Owner, for review of design and materials associated with the proposed Planned Unit Development. 7. 726 & 734 De Mun Avenue – Minor Subdivision Plat Consideration of a request by Sheila Miranda, Applicant, on behalf of 728 De Mun LLC, Owner, for review of a lot consolidation plat for the proposed Planned Unit Development.

Items 3 through 7 were presented jointly and a public hearing was opened at 17:50. Ryan Helle provided a summary of the staff reports with the following recommendations: 1. Impacts of sidewalk closures and temporary pedestrian path requirements shall be evaluated by Public Works prior to issuing a Demolition Permit and again prior to issuing a Building Permit. 2. All signage shall comply with Chapter 425. Signage, unless a separate sign district specifically for this project is developed and approved by the Architectural Review Board. 3. Lighting facilities shall comply with applicable City codes and shall be arranged in a manner which will protect roadways and neighboring properties from direct glare or other interference. 4. That the applicant provides a mylar (with the surveyor’s signature and the property owner’s signature) for the appropriate City of Clayton signatures per the Subdivision Ordinance requirements after Board of Aldermen approval; and 5. Approval of this Plat is concurrent with and intended solely to facilitate redevelopment of the subject properties as authorized by the Rezoning and Planned Unit Development Approval Ordinance (Ordinance No __) adopted concurrently herewith, which rezoning and PUD approval is subject to lapse and the time limit specified in the City’s Land Use Regulations, Section 405.1460. Accordingly, if the Plat approved hereby is not filed with the St. Louis County Recorder of Deeds prior to the deadline and the time limit applicable to the Rezoning and PUD Ordinance aforesaid the approval and authorization for filing of the Plat shall lapse and this Ordinance shall be of no further force and effect; and 6. That the applicant files the plat with the St. Louis County Recorder of Deeds office prior to application for construction or demolition permits for the property as approved under the Rezoning and Planned Unit Development Ordinance.

Ellen Reid and Tyler Stephens were present on behalf of the applications. The project representatives provided a presentation to the PC-ARB. A public comment period was held for attendees both in-person and on Zoom. PC-ARB discussed the project with the project representatives and discussed PUD point allocation. The public hearing closed at 20:08

Bridget McAndrew made a motion to recommend approval of the rezoning to the Board of Alderman. Helen DiFate Seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Bridget McAndrew made a motion to recommend approval of the Planned Unit Development application to the Board of Alderman with the following conditions:

1. Impacts of sidewalk closures and temporary pedestrian path requirements shall be evaluated by Public Works prior to issuing a Demolition Permit and again prior to issuing a Building Permit. 2. All signage shall comply with Chapter 425. Signage, unless a separate sign district specifically for this project is developed and approved by the Architectural Review Board. 3. Lighting facilities shall comply with applicable City codes and shall be arranged in a manner which will protect roadways and neighboring properties from direct glare or other interference. Helen DiFate Seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Bridget McAndrew made a motion to approve the Site Plan Review application as submitted. Helen DiFate Seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Bridget McAndrew made a motion to approve the Architectural Review application as submitted. Helen DiFate Seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

Bridget McAndrew made a motion to recommend approval of the Planned Unit Development application to the Board of Alderman with the following conditions: 1. That the applicant provides a mylar (with the surveyor’s signature and the property owner’s signature) for the appropriate City of Clayton signatures per the Subdivision Ordinance requirements after Board of Aldermen approval; and 2. Approval of this Plat is concurrent with and intended solely to facilitate redevelopment of the subject properties as authorized by the Rezoning and Planned Unit Development Approval Ordinance (Ordinance No __) adopted concurrently herewith, which rezoning and PUD approval is subject to lapse and the time limit specified in the City’s Land Use Regulations, Section 405.1460. Accordingly, if the Plat approved hereby is not filed with the St. Louis County Recorder of Deeds prior to the deadline and the time limit applicable to the Rezoning and PUD Ordinance aforesaid the approval and authorization for filing of the Plat shall lapse and this Ordinance shall be of no further force and effect; and 3. That the applicant files the plat with the St. Louis County Recorder of Deeds office prior to application for construction or demolition permits for the property as approved under the Rezoning and Planned Unit Development Ordinance. Helen DiFate seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.

ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 19:09