April 1, 2024 — Meeting Transcript

Make sure your cell phones turned off and electric devices. We will have an opportunity for public comments tonight after the presentation. And I'm really talking about the Munn area in the hotel. After the presentation by the architect and whoever else wants to speak on behalf of the developer, everybody will have an opportunity to make comments if they so choose, okay? We may have some people on Zoom too, and they'll be given permission to speak. When you do come up to speak, please give your name and address so we will know who it is that is speaking. Okay. Let's have a roll call. Steve

Lichtenfeld. Carolyn Gatiss. Richard McAndrew.

Here.

Bob Denlow. Here. Helen DeFay.

Bob Denlo. Here. Helen DeFay.

Here.

Jamie Wallman.

Here.

David Gipson?

David Gibson?

Here. Okay, we have a quorum tonight and we will proceed. The next item on the agenda is the minutes from our meeting on March 18th, 2024. You have them in front of you. Are there any changes to the minutes? If not, I will entertain a motion.

I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of March 18, 2024.

Second.

All those in favor?

Aye.

All those opposed? It passes. We have three basic properties to discuss tonight. The first one is at 7639 West Moreland Avenue, Joy Stinger, dealing with a front yard fencing issue. Is there anyone here on behalf of the petitioner? Is that? Hello, Stephanie Sato. Is there anyone on the monitor?

Yes.

Are you here for the Westmoreland Avenue?

Yes.

Okay. Do we want to go and do the summary first?

The property is located at the northeast corner of North Hanley and Westmoreland. It is zoned R2 and is developed with a two-story single-family home. The location on the corner provides street frontage on both the west and south sides. The property primarily faces Westmoreland. The rear yard has a six-foot-high wood fence, part of which is along Hanley. The applicant is seeking to replace the fence with a similar one, as well as portions of an existing four-foot fence in the rear yard. The fence would be made of wood, be set back by an existing planter bed by roughly three feet, and reach six feet in height. Properties along Hanley use a variety of screening for dual frontage, including plantings, retaining walls, and fencing. Adjacent properties use similar six-foot fencing to screen their yards. Given that the applicant is seeking to replace an existing fence with a similar one and the prevalence of existing fencing nearby, staff are of the opinion that the proposed fence will result in a minimal visual impact and recommend approval as submitted.

Okay. Thank you very much, Ryan. Mr. Sato, are you there?

Yes.

OK, but I understand basically you're on the corner of Westmoreland and Hanley and you want to do a six foot privacy fence on your corner lot where you basically push out the backyard, which is treated as a front yard. Is that correct?

Yes.

OK. Do you want to make any comments before we entertain any discussion in a vote?

The only thing I would say is that the fence that we are putting there or we are planning to replace it with will be same exact fence that's there now. Okay. And how long has that fence been there? According to our customer, about 25 to 30 years. Okay. Okay.

Thank you. Okay. Sato, I don't have a problem with it. I understand you're going to have a three-foot setback from the sidewalk?

Yes.

Okay. To me, I can just consider that pretty important so there's breathing room so people can walk and feel there's a wall right along next to them. Otherwise, I have no problems with it. Richard? Richard?

Yeah, I don't have any problems either, especially it's on Hanley. So certainly Mrs. Stinger. Mrs. Stinger lives just down the street from me. So yeah, the fence has been there forever, at least as long as I've lived on my street. So I'd certainly be in support of her just replacing what is an old fence that needs to be repaired and replaced. So no problems.

Okay. Next. No

problems.

Next. Can we?

No issues.

Okay. Do we have a motion to... Bob,

do you want to ask if there's anyone in the audience before you?

Any comments on this one in the audience? We hear no one and I see no one on the monitor. Okay. Next motion.

I will make a motion to approve the staff recommendation as submitted.

vote second second guys call for a vote

hi hi i'm here hi hey

carolyn how are you

yeah sorry about that uh lovely traffic so yeah i'm here

all right well we'll just continue going

sure

uh next we have um Let's see the patio 315 North central Avenue is the petitioner here for the patio. We're going to first hear a summary of what your proposal is and your name by just so I know Michelle okay.

Properties located on the West side of North central Avenue just north of Kingsbury Boulevard. Property is zoned R3 and is developed with a two-story single-family home. The applicant is seeking to construct a rear patio with an outdoor kitchen. The proposed patio would result in a total impervious lot coverage of 56%. Section 4052040 limits impervious coverage to 55%. The plan Commission may permit an additional 5% up to a maximum of 60% or an applicant can demonstrate just cause. Existing rear yard consists of landscaping and open space with no rear patio the applicant seeks to surround the new patio with a natural landscaping to reduce irrigation runoff and chemical needs. The project scope does not require formal landscaping or stormwater review and no such criteria were required or provided. Staff are of the opinion that no just cause has been identified and recommends tabling the application to a future meeting date to allow the applicant to make revisions or provide additional information.

Okay, thank you. Michelle, you want to come on up? Michelle, what I understand is you want to put a patio and an outdoor kitchen in your backyard.

Correct, in the client's

backyard. And so much of the grass, open land has to be available. This is a case where the statute requires no more than 55%. Yes. And you have 56%. This is the famous criminal case of 1%. Okay. And, um, what I understand is we have the discretion provided there's cause or reason or something like that. And, uh, to to waive that and to allow you the extra one percent this is how i understand it

that's the way i understand

okay you got the floor michelle

and the client is asking for a patio to be built again the dimensions when you look at it it looks like we're about 37 square feet over our allotment so the homeowner would like to proceed with that size that we have on the plan um It's a patio at the bottom of stairs. They don't have any kind of landing or anything at the point. It just exits onto grass currently. And so they're hoping to add something that they can put some patio chairs or something in there because they don't have anything in the backyard at this time. And then the kitchen is part of that connected to the patio. Yeah.

If I can ask, to go from 55% to 56%, how many square feet are we talking about?

My understanding, it's about 37. That, I guess, is what I was told because I did not know. So my understanding is about 37 square feet less. And so what that would do to the patio is currently it's about, the steps are 16 feet across and the patio is proposed to be 10 foot 6 deep from the bottom riser out. So we would then, to take the 37 square feet, we would potentially have to go about, the dimensions would then be eight foot by 16 feet. We'd have to take about two to two foot six off that 10 foot six length is about what I've calculated in order to take the 37 squared feet out.

So maybe one row of spheres or something.

Yeah, I mean

like,

yeah, the width of a little bit wider than the select term and then basically it's the length of the stairs is 16 feet already and it's already built they come off the back of the house

um it's it's by a vote of everybody we we decided we want to waive this one percent or we want to keep a strict conformity the statute ordinance says we have discretion on this up to a certain amount and this is within the certain amount michelle personally um I can live with a 1%, but I'm only one voice. And we have more educated people up here than me. So next.

Um, I, you know, I know 1% sounds minuscule, but you know, there's a reason we kind of stick to 55%. I mean, I was kind of hoping that there was some structural reason or something that you were telling. And it, I know it's only 1%, but it's a pretty, I mean, it's a significant area, you know, given that the lot, given that I guarantee like, you know, your clients live in a new home and I'm sure there's not a ton of green space in the backyard. Yeah. just in terms of, you know what I mean? Like the lots are in Old Town are filled to the brim. You know, again, within, you know, the bounds of the 55%. So I was kind of hoping that you were going to give me some reason or something, you know, or if there was some way that we could make some of the pavers permeable or, you know, something that would kind of, cause you know, 55% then becomes 57% or 58%, you know, and then it's 3%. And you know what I mean? I think there's a kind of a line for a reason. So just a little concerned without some sort of.

Well, I've talked to the client about permeable pavers and they, that is not something, it doesn't go with the look that they're going for, but they also have said that, you know, They don't want to lose the ability to do the patio so that if it is something that we have to compromise by pushing that in, they would rather get that approval so that we can just move forward is where they are. So, you know what I mean? I would love to say and be able to go back to them and say that we got it at the 10 foot six. But we've also had discussions that that may not be possible. And they would they've sort of they are realizing they may have to compromise on that.

yeah i just we have water water problems everywhere and people are constantly talking to me about water problems so it's just yeah so i mean but again i'm only one vote so i understand happy death

okay i'm wondering on the letter that you wrote to ryan the city of clayton you say we would like to request the additional five percent impervious coverage allowance up to a maximum of 60%. So

I don't want that. My understanding is that it's written as up to 60%. That's by no means what we want. We want potentially just that 1% to allow us. But if you read the section, it said like that. So my understanding is what I was requesting what would meet my patio needs, not the full 60. But because it's worded legally like that, that's what I thought I had to put in there, so.

Do you feel comfortable if we were to restrict, if it was approved, if, to 56%? Oh,

yes, yes, yes. Completely.

Okay. I would tend to agree with Bridget on that, that it's where do you stop You know 1% well mine's only one and a half percent but then I only want a half a percent more to sell, I would agree with Bridget.

Just in your letter, you had also mentioned about possibly removing something

like... There's currently edging around the beds that are there. That will all be removed because we're basically the whole... It's going to be garden in the back. So there's no need for differentiation between planting beds and sod, which is there right now. And so all that edging will be removed. So

you're... considering moving 33 square feet of pervious ground cover and then you just want to go over 37 so we're talking about like four square feet okay so if that's the case then I would be okay with that um I am in agreement because I know there's water issues and everything um so that's where I would stand I would say if you are willing to remove or give that back 33 square feet then I would The

original plan, there were flagstone to connect to the side and that was removed when the revision was done back. So that and the edging are basically all being taken out and it will all be basically plantings and things like that with no additional except for the proposed patio.

Okay. And Anna, why were you guys tabling this or suggesting that?

So we recommended that in most of the requests for additional coverage under this clause, people either provide the permeable pavers or they provide additional information about their plantings to show how these plantings would act as a rain garden or something else to supplement it. And so in this instance, there wasn't some of that background that Ryan referred to. And so instead of denying it, we recommended tabling to allow them to answer any more questions if you had them here. Got it.

So I guess, yeah, to me, if you were taking out the 33 and adding the 37, I would be okay with it. But I don't know if that calculation has to be re-figured out to get an

approval. If you make specific motions to that effect, then we can handle it as staff. If there are more general questions about what their proposed plan is and how it handles stormwater, so for example, there are not stormwater calculations associated with what they provided with us today so if that's something that you want then we would likely say we would prefer that to come back to the board rather than staff make the decision but if it's something smaller where you say a certain number of square feet would be allowed then then ryan can handle that on staff review

i don't want to make this seem like a mountain from a molehill this is not a big project but we would like to try to accommodate you the best we can and see that you get what you want You may want to consider just tabling us the next one and cross your T's, dot your I's with the staff here. They're great to work with.

If we would propose to reduce the patio, would that be something that would then

need to come

back? If you make alterations where you meet the 55%, then you do not need to come back to this board for approval. We would just process the permit that you've already applied for. Can

you confirm exactly what that number is that needs to be Is that, you know what I mean? Like where at 56 and 55, what is that square footage that you guys are calling that? I think Ryan had told me 37. I just want to make sure that that's what it is. So if someone could just confirm the square footage.

Yes, typically that would be a calculation that you would run as well. But if the drawings are to scale, if you've run it, Ryan, he can provide that for you. I

think we've come up with different square footages. Okay. So that's, I just want to make sure that we've hit the number.

We'd like to see you cross, cross the finish line here. I would, the staff is recommending the table is so just sit down with them. And if you're going to go permeable a little bit or not, or if it's just a foot or so difference at the end of the day, I think nobody's going to complain. I think, uh, the planning commission is, uh, always confronted with water runoff issues every time a project comes to us it's just a huge issue in most communities including blatant so um do you have a problem if we just table it the staff has recommended the application be tabled to a future meeting date to allow the applicant to make whatever revisions are necessary. Correct. In working with the staff?

Yes.

Is that okay?

Yes.

Perfect. Do we have a motion to table?

Motion to table to a future meeting date to allow the applicant to consider revisions or work with the staff to provide additional information. Second.

Second. Ayes? Aye.

Aye. Aye.

Thank you.

Thank you, Michelle. Okay. Next, we have the star attraction for tonight. Okay. We have the hotel proposal in the Daman area. Is Sheila Miranda here? Tyler, are you the one doing the talking? Okay. Let's talk about that there are three things we have to vote on tonight. dealing with the combination of the plat, dealing with the architectural review and the HUD review where we have to go through a table list to see if it meets a certain criteria of what we call the points to go forward with the project. So, Brian, you want to give

us a second? First, just so everybody in the audience is clear, we have an application for rezoning, application for planned unit development and the associated development plan, application for site plan review, application for architectural review, and an application for a minor subdivision plat, all associated with the same project. Okay. Chairman, if you would like two of those required public hearings, the rezoning request and the planned unit development, if you'd like to open those public hearings before we begin.

Before we begin? So just

open the public hearing and then we'll present them.

Do I have to make a motion for that? No. Are we having a public hearing right now? So you do whatever you have to do.

Okay.

With further ado, Ryan. This request is for a public hearing regarding a proposed planned unit development and associated rezoning, flat site plan review, and architectural review. Proposed project consists of the consolidation of 726 and 734 DeMunn Avenue, rezoning of the lot to a PUD, renovation of the existing buildings, demolition of the rear accessory structures, and construction of a new rear addition. The existing site contains three-story mixed-use buildings with ground floor commercial and residential on the upper floors. Adjacent uses consist of similar mixed-use or multifamily structures. The PUD consists of a mixed-use hotel with ground floor retaining commercial uses, and the upper floor is being converted into a 24-unit hotel. Conceptual review took place in January of 2023, and a community conference was held in February 2023. The purpose of the PUD process is to foster appropriate use of existing buildings and enable compatible redevelopment, which provides public benefits as identified in Section 405.1380 and achieves the objectives outlined in Section 405 1360. A PUD must provide these public benefits to the surrounding neighborhoods and to the city above and beyond what can be reasonably achieved by application of the zoning provisions of the original zoning district. Resounding to a mixed-use PUD is allowed for hotels containing a public restaurant in the C1 district per Section 405-2900A4. The project seeks relief from certain development standards set forth in the C1 District. Table one in the PUD staff report identifies the standards and proposed alternatives. Table two provides the proposed public benefits. The applicant requires a minimum of, the application requires a minimum of 20 public benefits points and the applicant has proposed 25. Staff have evaluated 20 benefit points. An analysis by both the applicant and the staff are identified in table two of the staff report. The project is located at the center of the Dumont neighborhood which contains a greater population density than others in Clayton and has a concentration of neighborhood commercial activity. existing structure which currently contains 16 residential units would be renovated and expanded to become 24 hotel rooms the use of a hotel proportional in size and scale to the neighborhood would likely contribute to a local commercial activity while limiting impact on neighborhood character additionally the proposed addition is of consistent masking materials to that of the surrounding structures staff have the opinion that the renovation and use of the site as proposed is proportional compatible to the neighborhood and surrounding area Mechanical equipment would be shielded on the roof by a parapet. Site coverage and runoff would not change. Surrounding street trees would be preserved. The applicant has stated that the existing commercial will be able to remain operational during renovation. The applicant proposes five on-site spaces and 30 spaces leased from Concordia. The parking study found that this will be sufficient to support peak parking demand. Guests will have the option to valet or self-park, and the hotel staff will be directed to use off-site parking on the Concordia site. The traffic study found that the new use is likely to generate 15 fewer trips during peak hours. Bike racks and storage are proposed in the rear alley and in the center court. Staff do not anticipate adverse impact regarding public infrastructure, utilities, emergency services, noise, light, or odor. The existing building and surrounding area are characterized with red brick and stone accents. Much of the exterior will remain unchanged with storefronts receiving new finishes. The three-story addition at the rear of the property will feature red brick on the ground floor and limestone on the second and third levels. The hotel lobby entrance facing North Risbury Avenue would project out from the facade and will be clad with red panels and trim. The addition will have doors and windows matching those proposed for the existing structure. Redwood gates would enclose the trash storage along the rear alley. Staff are of the opinion that the development meets the PUD and site plan review criteria, meets the architectural review guidelines, and of a scale and massing consistent and appropriate with the surrounding area and will be visually compatible. Staff recommends that the plan commission recommend approval of the minor subdivision plat rezoning and PUD to the board of Alderman with conditions identified in the staff reports. And staff recommend that the plan commission and architectural review board approve the site plan review and architectural review as submitted.

Okay, with that, Tyler's next, right? This applicant has been here before us to make a presentation just so everybody knows to give us an idea of what the plans were. And I know you've had meetings in the community to discuss your proposal and you're back. Back. And we're glad to see you.

I assume you want to take all of it all at

once. Yes. We have a lot of people in the audience tonight, and I think they would like to see what the project looks like and everything from traffic to parking to how's it going to look and what kind of construction you're going to do. And they want to understand how it's good for the community as well. Taylor, you got the floor. And can you give your name and your address, and what is your profession?

Yes, good evening. My name is Tyler Stevens. I'm the principal of Quartan Architecture here on behalf of my client, Ellen Reed, who is also gonna be here. And I'd like to start by letting Ellen just introduce herself, although you've already met her, of course, but she would just like to say some opening words. And then I will resume from there, Ellen.

Hello, good evening, everyone. My name is Ellen Reed. Thank you for having me back today. I see a lot of familiar faces. I am a 20-year Clayton resident, 20 plus year now, I'm getting old, and business owner. I'm excited to be here tonight to continue to share our vision for Hotel Le Mans. Our goal, our overarching goal, is to restore and beautify a small block along DeMunn Avenue and create a charming 24-unit boutique hotel, what we've named Hotel DeMunn. It's no secret, I'm a huge fan of the DeMunn neighborhood and holds a very special place in my heart. It's neighborhood that I used to live in where both of my sons were born and where I continue to spend all my free time visiting my favorite coffee shops, restaurants, retail, taking walks in the park. So you see me there on most weekends when I'm not working. Hotel DeMunn has been designed to be a celebration of the neighborhood and all of the unique features that it offers. Unique architecture, walkability, vibrancy, diversity, and access to all of our favorite local establishments. I envision Hotel du Monde as a place where the neighbors, locals, as well as visitors alike can enjoy and celebrate all the features that we love so much about this neighborhood. Also a community gathering place to enjoy the new restaurants and retail that Hotel du Monde will incorporate. My personal mission statement has always been to make a positive impact on the people and places that have impacted me. DeMunn is certainly one of them, as is Clayton as a whole. As we've designed the project, we've continued to keep that mission at heart, and I want both the community and staff and everyone to know that I'm committed to Clayton, I'm committed to making this a successful project, and I'm committed to being a good neighbor. We've been very thoughtful about our design and spent a lot of time. I hope that everyone loves it as much as we do. I'm going to let Tyler go through the specifics of the architecture, the site plan, but I'm also here along with him to answer any questions. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Okay, well, it is good to be back. And I didn't realize it's been a little over a year. You read the dates earlier and Time flies. So some of this will be a little bit of a reminder just to make sure everybody is up to speed, but probably best. So here, of course, is our site and identifying where it is Ellen mentioned that this is the middle of the neighborhood and and by that we mean that pretty literally. You'll see in the street plans how the demand neighborhood when it was laid out all kind of rings around this property. I don't think it was as important in the past as it has become and will be in the future. I just want to point out, just because I like saying this, that like Ellen, I have been in Daman for a long time as well. If you look down in the bottom right corner there, right there, that's the first condo that I ever designed in Clayton some 25 years ago or so. So Daman has been a good place to be. Here is the existing property. There are two buildings. They were built slightly at different times and there is actually a gap between them, although very small. And we will be, what we're proposing is to combine these two buildings together. So it would be all one structure. They do have different floor levels. So it'd be some internal stairs and various things to work this out. But the fact that they both sit up on demand close to the street and define the block makes it easy to then add on behind them. And so that is what we are proposing, all of the back will be new. This rendering has been going around for a while and this is our vision of what is Hotel du Monde. And the main thing that I like to point out is that in terms of the past and the future, there's not a whole lot of change other than some very good aesthetic cleanup. We're gonna be doing various things with the windows, Right now, the windows vary in size and placement. We'll be unifying some of them, extending some of them down. We have this theme of little balconies, Juliet balconies as they're called, across so that every room will have some terrace doors. That will be kind of how they're organized. The ability to open them up, enjoy the views and the breezes and all of that. And that helps to marry the two buildings together. We want them to appear as one, even though the architecture is slightly different. So those balconies definitely help. And then also unifying the storefront down on the bottom. The storefront will all be unified in color. We have two different window colors that we're proposing here on the building. And notice that everything on the first floor commercial is this kind of deep red color. I have samples of all this stuff because I know you like to see it for ARB. It's over on the side. I can bring it up later. when you're deliberating. But that red color is on the bottom for the commercial, and it's kind of the signature color of the hotel. It's in all of the marketing pieces as well. Then the windows up above in the existing structure will be a charcoal color, which sets them off with the brick a little bit. So that's the main change in terms of the front of the building. You'll see some other little touches like there are canopies over the door. These doors, by the way, are the original entrances to the building. There are two, one on each side and they're under those big tall windows. These will remain as doors. They lead to the stairwells inside the building, but these will not be the main entrance to the hotel. That's going to be around on the new part. I'll show you that in a minute. So these will be functional doors for the guests who stay there. They'll be locked, but you'll have a room, you know, card access that you could come and go if you're going out that direction. Placement of the neighborhood as you can see this is what I was talking about it being a center north and south Roseberry kind of divide it. And then across we have this wonderful setting of the park Concordia Seminary, which makes for a nice kind of presentation of this whole street along demand. And then we'll talk later when we get to parking, but just so everybody knows, this is the parking lot that the seminary has agreed to allow use of. And Ellen has an agreement put in place with them for that. It's a good location. I mean, at first, when I... When we first talked about it, I was hoping they'd give us this parking lot right here. But I can see this is their main parking for their main presentation hall up here. And this actually works better because the pathways that lead right to the front of the hotel kind of go in this direction. And so when we had our neighborhood meetings, we had them here at the seminary right in this building right there. And so we all went out and walked it and stood up there and It was at night, and you could very easily standing right here in the parking lot see because it's kind of uphill from from the street see down the slope to demand and very visible to the building itself so I don't think that navigation will be an issue for anyone coming and going. This drawing shows the main building kind of in pink, the two buildings that are existing there, and then the red is the addition that we're proposing. It is a courtyard type of addition which allows some light on the center to get to existing windows and existing rooms that are in the back. We'll kind of circle around that. I said that this addition is all in the back. The current condition of the alley is one of, there were originally garages for the building. They have not been functional as garages for a long time. So essentially they're storage units at this point. And it's not very sightly. And because of the nature of the site going through the block to both North and South Roseberry, this is a very visible area. As you walk down those streets, you see right down this alley and right through the block to the trash cans and the various things, the storage of something flammable. So it's definitely an area to be cleaned up And so by building the addition here, we can take down the garage. We can clean up things like you'll see this fire escape stair that was added onto the back of the building. All that will be gone and unify it so that all the way around, it looks like one cohesive mass. This is some other views. The picture on the left, I'm actually standing on South Roseberry. So this is very visible to the street, what you see looking in with all the utilities and everything too, which is another thing that we can clean up. When you get around to North Roseberry, if you look to the right here, this is the side of the existing building as we come around. And this is the addition in the back. So our proposed entrance to the hotel. One of the reasons why it's been a year since we've been here is because we've spent a lot of time, Ellen and I have spent a lot of going back and forth on what is the right architecture for this building. I had a conversation with Steve Lichtenfeld early, early on a long time ago about and he that's one of the things he asked he's like what's Tyler what's this going to look like. I hope you're not going to make a copy of the existing building. Those were his words. And I know that that has been consistent in Clayton in the past, in terms of when we build new, it's good to have something that is different than the original. We cannot, in today's time, really replicate historic architecture anyway. The different materials, the trades, the skills, it's a different time period. So we wanted to make it look different than the existing buildings, but we did go back and forth as to whether it should be modern or traditional. And there were a lot of pros and cons for both. In the end, what we decided to do was a more traditional type design that would blend into a little bit more of the historic charm of the neighborhood and stick out as something modern and different. But by using different materials, the limestone, which limestone is a very traditional material, but covering the the building in it rather than brick. And then this first floor, these sets of bay windows on either side of the entry door is what it is. It's really this box that projects out, which is a very traditional kind of approach you see, especially in Europe to these little neighborhood hotels. This is a common type of approach. treatment of it. It allows the windows on either side of the door to kind of approach out towards the sidewalk that recesses the entry. So now it's covered and welcoming draws you into the building. And then on the roof, we have the ability to soften it even more playing up on this theme of the the Juliet balconies with some plantings and rooftop landscaping, if you will. All of that material here, since it is a structurally, when you look at these historically, the masonry, which would be the structural mass of the existing building, would be at this line right here. Just like the existing building has a triple-wide brick wall coming down, that is a masonry mass. Masonry masses have limited holes punched in them. They usually don't fly. You don't float masonry over things. And so this limestone reads as the same type of masonry mass. We keep it in the same plane. Then when you have projections beyond that, things that float, think about bay windows, for instance, a bay window projecting off of a masonry box. Those are often, well, almost always they're not masonry because it's hard to, you wouldn't do a bay window out of masonry. It's hard to hold that up. Similarly here, these boxes that project on the bottom, we use a trim material, composite trim material that makes these nice panels. It's very much in the nature of what would be wood if this was built hundreds of years ago. We do a lot of composite panels now so that they last longer. And then that also allows us to introduce the color. I said this is a signature color of the hotel. It was specifically chosen because it's kind of the blend of the bricks that are on there, the flavor of the brick and kind of what we thought is the feel of the neighborhood. So that's where this color comes from. As you move around to the side now, you can see along the back how the back is cleaned up. We do have five on-site parking spaces as was mentioned. Those are right here tucked under. This front piece that is the lobby wraps around. You'll see some windows on the side. That way when you're walking down the street, you have a nice kind of return to the corner, some windows into the lobby and then the actual parking commences from there. This side back here becomes a feature wall. We've talked different things about what's on the inside, what's on the outside, how it kind of views through. And we're still working on the lobby design inside. So I know that's not part of what we're talking about. But I wanna draw your attention to this part way back here in the back. You see some more red there. That is a trash enclosure, which I'll show you and plan here in a minute. All of those dumpsters that are currently on the alley can be put inside the trash enclosure and then gates pulled across them to visually clean up the entire back. So it's a much more pleasant alley to go down, which is important for the hotel as well because the patrons will be directed to approach that way. I'll show you our driving pattern here in a minute. The rest of the lines, the banding, the window details, all that pull from the existing building in a complimentary way, although not copying. This gives you just an idea of the other elevation. You see that back here, those gates. for the trash. And then on the other side, on South Roseberry, as it turns around, here is where we actually will match the brick and create a base. So similar to the base we're doing on the other side that's covered in the trim to tie it all together. And then the limestone wraps around there as well. So the whole back is sort of like the U shape of limestone coming around. You can see the cleaning up the windows as well. There are a couple pieces on top. We'll talk about these in a minute. There's a stairwell. enclosure that rises up and then the elevator, we're putting in a new elevator that will rise up as well. That's what you see poking at the top. And that's due to, we want to have the ability to have rooftop access. Rooftop access is very important to people these days. And so this is a natural to want to be able to do something with the roof. We do not have a proposal at this time in terms of, this is certainly Well, I can tell you one thing about it that we know for sure. We wanted to provide the infrastructure to get there, but we're only taking one stair up. And when you have one stair up, then the code limits you to 49 people. So that's the scale we're talking about. This is not hundreds of people on a roof having a Mardi Gras party. This is maximum of 49. And they would mostly be either we'll have some seating from the restaurant. Maybe it's like a little restaurant atop or an amenity for the hotel itself. Just quickly, I'll go through the plans so you can kind of see. This is the existing site plan. You can see here is the scale of the garages across the back and where they sit relative to the alley and the trash dumpsters, the various stairs and things coming off the back. Our new plan will sit like this. You can see that here's the parking space. We will maintain some retail in this back along South Roseberry. This is retail that is not there today. That's a blank brick wall. So we're increasing the retail on South Roseberry. And that's kind of a trade because we're taking away the retail that was on North Roseberry. There's a little shop in the back corner there as well. So that can trade down to here if it wants, or it could be something different, whatever, however it works out. The other retail spaces will remain as is, as Ellen said, with the exception of on the corner is currently the laundromat. And the laundromat has not been really functional in a long time. So the laundromat will go away and that's what's going to become the new hotel bistro, I'll call it. I got a picture for you here. So instead of the laundromat, you can off the lobby, we can have a little bistro that could be a breakfast kind of thing that morphs over into a lounge at night. This would be open to the public. So that was one of the questions that was in the neighborhood presentations we had earlier. That was one of the people want to make sure that this is all part of amenity for the public and the lobby of hotels is generally open. The second floor here, you can see some rooms. This typical layout. This is one exception where we've got a big unit that we're going to cut in half, but the rest of them are all pretty much that same size. I want to reiterate what was read earlier in the end. This is a 24 room hotel. And I know that was one of the biggest concerns when we had the neighborhood meetings. When people hear the word hotel, they immediately think of their own experiences with hotels. And usually those are large. You either have a downtown hotel that's a high rise. You might have a holiday inn on the side of, you know, or something on the side of the highway. Those have at least 100 rooms, that kind of scale. This is 24 rooms. So very small. They're currently 18, right? 14. And so we're increasing it 10, that type of scale. When we add on to the back, it will be laid out like this. We have a general circulation and hallway that will connect the two together and turn it into one building. There's the stairs that makes up the difference in the floor levels. A new elevator in the back that will serve everything so that it's accessible. And then that courtyard remains so that these units in the middle can still have their windows looking out. We can also have windows in the hallway looking into the courtyard. Should be a really nice and pleasant approach.

Just to talk for a second. Sorry, Carolyn, get us. Oh, yes. It's kind of like the Moonrise Hotel, which is wonderful, has done a lot for Del Mar. this will be a great addition to that area. So I don't know that you need to apologize for any of it. I think it's a wonderful project. I have no stake in it at all. I'm with Wolpert. I'm a landscape architect. I have nothing to do with any of this. But honestly, I mean, it's like the moonrise. Whenever people come to visit me, I'm like, that's where you're staying. Unless, you know, of course they're in my house. But I'm like, I would never put people up into, you know, like a Hilton. or whatever I would put them at the moonrise this is better so I literally think this is going to help the city so

thank you carolyn and and i could say on behalf of all of us we all need a place to put our crazy cousin who comes on from out of town instead of our own home

i don't even yeah no like

the moon rises is a good comparison in terms of a neighborhood hotel kind of thing um Yes, I'm not. I don't mean to sound apologetic. I was more just reminding everyone of scale because

I know sometimes it gets out of proportion. Made it that way. But it seems like you have to sell it. And to me, you don't have to sell it from New England and Philadelphia and Boston area. To me, this is a no brainer. So there's no cell needed

to me. I appreciate that. We'll go over the public comments here in a minute where we talk about them. Do you have more you want to add to your comments? Well, yes. Yeah. Since we worked on this for a year, let's go through it. Sorry if I'm keeping you all from dinner. I haven't eaten either, so...

As much time as you need to educate everybody here.

Just again, a reminder of scale. This is that rooftop, the amount of area we're talking about. So very small. I'll go through it quickly. The public comment portion or the I don't know why I can't remember what those are called. The public meetings we had. We took down lots of notes. We had two meetings, by the way. We're only required to have one. And we wanted to make sure that everybody had a chance to get there in case they were out of town or something. So we went ahead and had two. And we took down all the questions from both of those meetings. And there were a lot. There were a lot of comments. that some of them were concerns, and then there were also a lot of comments that were just questions, and then a handful of, wow, this is something we look forward to. So I tried to just summarize them here, and I'm not going to go through all these four, but I just wanted to let you know that they kind of divided into three categories. The first category had to do with the neighborhood, things like parking and traffic and trash and some concern that demand as it grows becomes unaffordable to people. And then certainly there's always the question of, you know, is this going to increase crime, things like that. The traffic study more than answered the question of traffic we're actually reducing the number of cars that are going there on daily basis right now. And then the parking lot with the seminary was something that we explained in terms of parking. Another group was about Ellen, basically, or the developer, essentially making sure that, you know, question is she going to retain ownership or is it something that's going to be sold off? You've heard her passion for the neighborhood. I don't really think Ellen is going anywhere for a while. Not that she's told me. I'd be in trouble if she did. And then things like, are we going to apply for tax credits or things like that that would require various things? Now, this is not a public project and publicly funded, anything like that. So this is all private investment. The last group had to do with... oh, I would say more forward-looking in terms of questions where people were resolved. Oh yeah, this is gonna happen. So now I wanna know how long is the construction gonna take? Will the retail still be open? How's it gonna affect things? So we answered all those questions. So all in all, we were pretty positive coming out of those meetings that certainly there were concerns as everybody has, but it seemed like people were pretty receptive to this project.

You know, I usually let the person take us wherever they want, but this is a great exhibit. So can I just address you to some of these things here? Yes. Stay as long as you want. Because they really want to hear about traffic and parking. If we could address how you resolved the parking today. I know what you were doing last time. I don't know if anything has changed. but before you were going to go over to the parking lot with everybody and maybe a golf cart to bring them?

There were a lot of ideas thrown out around the time. The way that we kind of set it up and resolved has to do a little bit with when you book the hotel, you're going to get some, you know, you get your information as you always will. One of those pieces of information in your pamphlet will be a kind of a where to go neighborhood what do you call

it just a neighborhood navigation

yeah and i've got so this is i did this little animation see that

well stop right there for one second when somebody pulls up to the i don't want to take away

i'm getting there i think i know where you're going

somebody pulls up to your hotel are they double parking on the side street there no or is there a place to come in

Yeah, that's what I'm getting to these arrows here indicate how people will be directed to approach the entering in and then come around go through the alley, though. Certainly if there's an open parking spot in those five they could take that but on North Roseberry will have three dedicated spaces. on the side there, which are not parking spaces. They're loading drop-off spaces. A lot of these people come into this hotel will be arriving by Uber or Lyft or something like that. So you need a spot for those people. Let's say somebody is being picked up. The car needs to sit there for a minute while you're in the lobby looking for them. So we have those three spaces. That's also a great spot. When you come in, you'll Park your car there, walk into the door, check in, get all your keys and whatever information you have. And then at that point, it becomes one of two things. Do you want to self-park or is somebody in the hotel going to park for you? And people will just come in and get that and they'll have that ability to sit on the street while they make those decisions. kind of decisions and navigation points maybe they drop off their bags in the room kind of thing and then go out take care of the car so those three spaces should be more than adequate to handle that from there you can drive around and just go up and park and walk back so that's how the parking has kind of been resolved

and i only bring that up because it's not a short walk At least for me anymore.

I mean, like I said, we were there that night and we did it and walked it and it's not really a long walk. I have been to other hotels like this in other cities where they've given me a parking map that was blocks away. So I thought, I think personally that this is pretty convenient and the fact that you can see it makes it psychologically shorter too.

if there is somebody disabled or somebody who didn't get out when they should have gotten out initially at the hotel, have you had any discussions with the city about a golf cart or something to help them get over there? Will they have to drive the car back to the hotel?

We didn't, we're not going down the path of a golf cart just because it takes up spot, take up a parking spot there to put it, you know, you got to store it somewhere. The reality of the numbers, this is, like I said, it's 24 rooms on a given day checking in. And I, we had these numbers at one time. Do you remember what the projections of people checking in per day were?

I think we estimated close to three to four because of occupancy rates and then a reduced amount statistically of travelers versus apartment dwellers.

Hey, Ellen, the people online can't hear you unless you need a microphone. Sorry.

A couple of key things about parking. Statistically, the hotel travelers will have a lot less cars than the apartment dwellers. So that's one piece, but it's a great question. Some people will want to self-park. I timed it and I wanna say it was two and a half minutes. I did time it because I walked it many times myself. It's also well lit. However, if someone is not able to park or does not wanna park, you can have the Hotel Attendant Park for you. So it's not a problem if somebody prefers not to self-park, they can just have the Hotel Attendent Park for them. A lot of people actually, believe it or not, prefer to self-park particularly because the whole marketing with Hotel de Monde is going to be marketed as you know a neighborhood walking friendly hotel so we do think particularly with the scale of the hotel being 24 units if we're at 80 occupancy if half of those people then have cars And then the duration of the stay is even for three to four days because of the scale of the rooms. We're talking about three to four check-ins a day. So it's a small number, but we do want to be able to assist those who would like someone to park for them or park themselves.

And I know this parking lot is quite large, Ellen. And with Concordia going to relocate its housing on June the Munn side of the campus, this will be the logical place for all the residents of Concordia to be parking in the future. Have you had any discussions with Concordia on that?

Concordia, they are still committed to providing parking. We did request and were able to get, in our opinion, substantially more spaces than we ever think we will need because, again, we're going to have five behind. Right now there's zero parking. 14 units, zero parking. The people just park on the street. Moving forward, we'll have the five spaces behind. And again, if we think on average, we realistically need under 10 spaces. But in order to have the sufficient parking per code, we wanted to have more than we needed. So reality is we won't need 35 spaces, but we do have access to that.

Very good. Thank you. I know I've taken you off your train of thought there, but I know parking and traffic is a major concern for residents in the area.

Yes.

Go

ahead. That was pretty much the end of it. Those are the questions and the things that we went through. Let's see. Yeah. So I'm happy to take questions. Happy to leave it there and we take questions off of whatever you have at this

point. Before I open it to the public, I just want to make sure I understand a couple things. Are there any dramatic changes or any significant changes when you were here a year ago presenting your plan to today?

Well, we didn't have any of the entrance worked out back then. We were only talking about the front of the building and what it looks like long to month. So what we did between then and now is go ahead and design that entrance lobby in the back and get that all worked out in terms of the sequencing, the drop-offs. I'll go back to that floor plan. I didn't spend a lot of time on it there, but you can see getting kind of the door and everything set up, getting these parking spaces, kind of going out, figuring out what's there, what's available. These are those three dedicated drop-off spaces that we talked about, working through that with our submission and the staff and everything. And then the other thing is the trash. We were before, I had this, what I thought was a great idea to put the trash in the courtyard in here because I'd seen other hotels done that way Nobody agreed with me. Everybody thought that was a terrible idea. And so in the end, I caved and we moved it out to the alley. We took away a little bit of this retail space in here in order to make that happen, but it wasn't that much. But this introduction of a trash area, dedicated trash area that opens up, that's all new. A little bit of the sequencing of the parking going in is new. So that's primarily what we worked on is how it flows and how it's going to actually logistically work.

Now, with regard to the existing commercial you have there, originally I thought you said you guys were going to try to work to keep those open during construction. Is that still what your

case is going to be? It's a goal. We have to do some work to the storefronts and everything so that there's a little bit of disruption there. But there's no reason if you shut down a retail space for a long period of time, the chances of them coming back get less, the longer it's out. So

I got a warning. I am partial to call these in Sasha's and you're going to have a restaurant there on the corner and, and it's going to be coffee. Yeah,

restaurant. I mean, it's a very small space. I can't read the thing up there, but I think it's just over 1,000 square feet or so, 1,500, 1,800. It would be a small restaurant, but the idea is not to compete or drive anybody out of business. That would be counter to what the hotel's mission is, which is to feed this neighborhood. So the bistro, as it's planned, is really... like I said, a breakfast-y place. Go in, get some coffee, which is not unlike Calde's too. But you've got the patrons of the hotel themselves coming down in the evening. It's another place to sit. I come down here a lot. We like to go to Louis a lot. And I can tell you, it gets crowded. And there are times when it's hard to get in and maybe they don't have a table for you. So nice to have additional...

I personally believe the vibrancy of Calde's area in part depends upon having multiple places for people to go to and they hang out in the streets for a while or they listen to music on the second floor of Sasha's on the streets. It's just, it's a little piece of heaven in Clayton.

I was going to add to that because that's... all your favorite places are my favorite places. So when I, when my kids and I, or even girlfriends and I like to spend, we will literally spend an entire day at demand because you could start at call these, take the kids to the park, go to the candy store, then maybe have a glass of wine with a friend and you take the kids to Clementine's. Then you walk, then you, then you're hungry again, and then you go eat dinner. So the goal is to curate, and maximize more of what we don't have, we certainly don't want to create another Sasha's or call these. We already have that. quite frankly, part of the reason I was drawn really key reason to doing this type of hotel is because utilizing the neighborhood gems that we have as part of the selling point of the hotel. And it's a reciprocal relationship. When I travel, you don't necessarily want to go just to the places within the hotel. What's unique about Daman, it's all independent local restaurant tours and retail. So what we want is more of that. You know, what we will propose in our corner spot is going to be something that we all love. It's not going to be a replication of what's already there.

Well, I mean, I'm going to go to public before I start giving, opening up to us here.

Uh-oh. Yeah.

Amber

alert? No, we

have a tornado alert.

I have never been up here with a tornado.

I raised my hand because I have been in several in Texas area and I could feel it in both of my cats are like looking at me, like going, why aren't you protecting us? So with this hotel, what

happens when there's a storm? Yeah.

Well, thanks Carolyn. David's checking in on that. So we'll continue for right now. We'll look to see what happens.

Okay. But I could feel it. I could feel the barometer

drop. Sure. Ellen, if you'd like to continue, you're welcome to. David's going to check on an emergency plan for us. You know what I was

going

to say,

Ellen? Sorry. In my own mind, I think your project is the best of many worlds. It keeps what is old and important to our neighborhood, and you're not going up in the air to do it, and you're building in the back, and it looks like It's a beautiful addition you're making. I think you and Steve... I'll give you the credit, but to me, it works great. The colors, everything. But at the same time, I treasure the candy store, at least my grandchildren do, and the ice cream. We have the mothership of Calde's in our neighborhood, and I can't say enough for that. And Sasha's is terrific, and Louie's, and everything. and the little clothing store, these are all what makes Daman alive and well and puts people on the sidewalks and on the street. Couldn't agree more. And I think and our buildings are getting tired and old and we have to look to the future and how to recycle them and how, how to, you know, otherwise they just fall down until it's too late. And I can't say enough how you're risking your money. You're stepping up to the plate and you're being very creative. I only admire so much of what you are doing and, but there are legitimate concerns, you know, parking traffic. And we had to figure out, does it make sense in our neighborhood that, with those components. If this was Chicago walking away a block, it's no big deal.

Guys, I think you need to be safe. I think everybody needs to be safe right now. I can feel it. I've been in it before.

I just went down and talked to the fire department. The cell that's threatening right now is out towards Chesterfield. It's headed this direction but won't be here for a little while. They were saying golf ball size hail. A little

while. Which means go.

What they said is if it looks like it's going to threaten the Clayton area, then they'll come up here quickly and I can see somebody over there and then we'll clear out the chambers. Okay. I'm

sorry. I don't mean to panic people, but I've been in several and it's not pretty. honestly my cats are going crazy right now i'm at home and my cats are like spinning around the room which tells me so

what do you i think too i mean i i also want to make sure that we're sensitive because we want to hear from the public too so i think if any of you are concerned

we have we have a man we

have what

Okay, great. Thank you. We're going to stop the recording. We will start it again when we return. Okay.