October 26, 2022 — Meeting Transcript

We're

going to go ahead and get started. Welcome, everybody. It's nice to see everybody here. And we are called to order officially. And I guess we can start with the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, Great. Our first thing on the agenda for tonight is we have that approval.

Yes. I move that the Board of Education approve the business meeting agenda for tonight, October 26, 2022. Second. It's been moved

and seconded. Questions or comments? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. So that leads us to recognizing our own. We are very excited about this. And Dr. Jordan and Frankie, if you can come on up.

Yes, that would be great. Okay, sounds great. Well, good evening, everybody. It is my great pleasure to recognize Ms. Frankie Sinebeck as the 2022 Emerson Teacher of the Year for the Clayton School District. So most of you are familiar with Frankie and her work, but for those of you who aren't and for those of you watching at home, a couple things that I wanted to mention. So Frankie started her work at Y-Down as a Truman intern, and she made such an amazing impact that when I even came as the principal and she wasn't there at that time, people were talking about her. She was a buzz about who she was and the kind of person she was. So she took a brief hiatus away from Y-Down and was at Parkway Southwest And then we promptly stole her back to come back and be a sixth grade math teacher. And she taught on the sixth grade math team alongside Joe Sustar and Dr. Leong, and they really elevated their work to do some amazing work in a PLC, some common assessments, looking at standards, doing some awesome things. And after she was in that role for a while, there was an opportunity for we had a late retiree that was moving from the gifted program. And I went to Frankie and said, I need you. I need you to come over and be a part of the gifted program. So she stepped up into that role and has really transformed what the gifted program has done. And not only just in our school, but in the district, like really looking at their work, looking at what it means to be how to service our students who have gifted needs. It's been really amazing. We know that we have a lot of amazing teachers in Clayton, and specifically at YL. But Frankie is just above and beyond everything that you have ever wanted. Because she is the kind of person that when you see her teach in her classroom, it is like organized wonder. It's structured, but there is definitely a feeling that kids have the freedom to explore who they are and the leadership leader that they want to be. and recognize her voice in all different kinds of ways, which is pretty impressive. But outside the classroom, she changes the culture at Y-Down. And I learned very quickly that if she came to my door with an idea, the answer is yes, and how can I support you? Because her intentions are always about the kids. It's about how can I service the children at Y-Down? How can I make their experience of middle school the very best it can be? So she's been a web leader and instituted that whole transition program with web, did the training, so that now we have a sixth grade transition program alongside Jason Thompson and Chris Chisholm. She's taken over as camp assistant director, and they've redesigned the entire camp experience to allow for the team building to be up front instead of at the very last day. which was a very big impact on our camp this year. They even designed the COVID camp, which was there but needed to be. And she definitely has just amplified student council. Actually, this year, we didn't have a student council. Frankie came in. And then this year, we actually had to have recommendations because there's so many kids that wanted to be a part of student council. When they do candy grams, we do – Thousands of dollars in sales of candy grams with Frankie at the end of it working with the kids, but then at the end of making sure it gets done. Putting on our winter fun fest, doing the pumpkin, right now in the middle of pumpkin decorating contest. I mean she impacts every single child in our school and we are so grateful to have her. But beyond impacting the kids, she impacts the adults. Her energy is amazing and her support and positivity. Even I just was talking to Dave Powers just yesterday when we were filling out our educator plans for growth and she sat with a group of teachers and helped them fill out and figure out what to do and how to plan it together and worked as a team. She just is a really solid person and that everyone goes to and looks for for that smile. and for those wonderful hugs. So I am so feel very grateful to call her not only an amazing teacher at our building, but also a close friend. And she is very, very deserving of this award. So I want to recognize Ms. Frankie Senefek. Thank you.

Oh, just thank you so much. I love my work here in Clayton. I love all the things that I get to do with kids and I love that this is such a place where you're like, I want to do this thing. And they're like, yes! How can we support you? It's wonderful to be able to mix with so many different groups of kids. I love that I'm like, I taught your kid and I taught your kid. It's fun to look out and see that and have those connections with the community. And I just love the work that I do. So it's really, I feel really honored. So thank you very much. Well, very

deserving for sure, Frankie. And truly, the first time I met you, obviously you could tell her energy, right? But she's just so positive and she truly is kid-centered. When we say kid-centered, I mean she will do anything for our kids. And she takes care of the adults as well. And you're just such a good energy in the room. We're fortunate to have you here. And I'm so glad you got this honor, and it's great to have your family here. And I heard earlier, just like literally, I found out there's a secret to YouTube that you do competitive dance?

Yes, I'm a competitive dancer also. In her spare

time. In her spare times. I don't know where she has that. Well, thank you. Thank you again for being here.

Okay, do we have any public participation tonight? Comments? So I will turn it over to Dr. Patel.

Great, and I think we actually want to start off with the board, right? Oh, you're right,

okay. I want to take a minute to press to acknowledge and recognize the tragedy that happened a few days ago at CBPA High School. I know it's all, it's been weighing heavily on everybody's mind at all of our schools within the district. Remind the board, some of you weren't here then, but back in 2018, the board executed a gun safety resolution. And we did that after the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. And unfortunately, about four months ago, with the tragedy that happened in Texas, this board reaffirmed that resolution. And here we are again today with yet another senseless, tragic shooting. And so I thought that we could go ahead and reaffirm our resolution again. just have each board member read, there's seven resolutions contained in the overall resolution. And so I thought we could go ahead and have everybody read one of the resolutions and then get everybody's signature to this. The board has reviewed this prior to this evening. I'm sorry, I just texted it to everybody so late. And to the extent anybody wants to read it, it'll be available on board docs too. So what I'm going to do is, I think everybody, does everybody have a resolution? Okay. So I'm going to go ahead and execute, and then I'm going to just read for it now, therefore, be it resolved that the Board of Education of the School District of Clayton support sensible gun safety legislation to protect students and staff, including, and so I'll have Stacey go ahead and read one, and pass it around.

implementing enhanced background checks for assault weapons, including raising the age to 21 to purchase assault weapons.

Should we pass it around? Sorry. Yes, we do. We need all the same one. Sorry about that.

Should I start the second one? You start the second one. Strengthening universal background checks for the purchase of firearms.

Banning the purchase of semi-automatic rifles and of any accessories, for example bump stocks, designed to increase a gun's rate of fire.

Do I read one? Yeah,

go ahead and read.

Four, banning gun sales to domestic violence offenders.

Five, preventing access to firearms for individuals who through mental health evaluation or diagnosis could be considered a danger to themselves or others.

Six, increasing funding for programs and school staffing. For example, social workers, counselors, nurses, and psychologists that support student mental health and social emotional well-being and learning. And

seven, providing funding for thorough for thorough gun violence research, including the collection of data necessary to track, monitor, understand, and prevent the extent of gun violence in America.

I appreciate everybody. I know everybody was more than willing to sign this and it's been a hard week and I feel for the students at CBPA and our students and the crazy, crazy unfortunate events that keep occurring over and over and over again. So with that, I'm going to

turn it over to Dr. Patel. Thank you. Definitely, I'll echo that. Definitely heartbreaking news. Since Monday, we've also heard a lot from our community, our parents, our students, our staff, whether it's via email, conversation. And, you know, we all feel the impact in different ways. So I just thought I would take this opportunity to reassure our community that in that we're constantly looking at our own procedures, our own processes, our own structures in our district to make sure that safety is a priority. And I thought it would just take this moment to really give the community an idea and a review of what we do because I did have several questions asked over the past few days from different community members. And so I thought we would go through a few things. So when we think of safety and security in the school district of Clayton, we really think of three focus areas. We think of education, like what is it that our staff needs to know to be safe? We think of it in like a prevention method. What is it that we can do in our buildings structurally to keep everybody safe? And then the last thing, which I feel like is one of the most important things, is we think of interactions. Like what type of relationships are we building with each other so that everyone feels like they belong in the school district? So the first one, when we think of education, right, what is it that our staff needs to know in order to be safe? That goes with the training that we do with our entire staff, which is state law, by the way. So our staff gets trained on options-based intruder response program, which is based on the 4E model. And the E stands for educate, escape, evade, and engage. So we train our entire staff every single year on that, and they're trained by law enforcement. And then we also do intruder drills with our students. We do them twice a year. We do them first semester, and then we do them at the beginning of second semester. And the intruder drills are obviously age-appropriate. It depends on elementary, middle, and high and how in depth we go with that. And it also includes some of the 4E components. We may not be in all of them depending on the age, but we do absolutely have intruder drills as well with all of our students. And so that's part of like under the education, the training umbrella. And then when you think about the physical structures, right? Prevention. We did, I believe, it was two years ago, we had a comprehensive safety study And out of that safety study came up a lot of different things that we as a district needed to focus on. And we invested a lot in that. And so one of the things that you've seen now, it should be almost every building, yeah, it is, completed are the safe, secure vestibules, right? There's one single point of entry. And so that was completed. And then we have... We're making sure that we have a visitor management system now installed in all the schools. So if there's someone besides a staff member or a student wanting to get into the building, we do have a visitor management where we check their ID, do a background check, et cetera. They get the badge, they come in. We also try to make sure all the doors are locked in the school building during the school day. And pretty soon, we've added sensors to the outside door. So if a door is left open, it should send a text or some sort of messaging to the building administration. We're just waiting for the computer hub to make sure that that's completely activated. We are also adding something new called the intruder alert response system in all of our buildings. Basically, what that does is on the push of a button, I'm trying to see if there's one in There's one in the hallway. At a push of a button, all the fire doors in the building close, this way compartmentalizing if there was an intruder in the building. And that push of the button even activates 911. So it's a one system, like the entire system goes into effect for that. This was a question I was also asked by one of our parents, so I want to make sure we mention that. The question was, what about the first floor windows? When you think of Merrimack or some of our elementary school, all of those windows have ballistic film on all ground floor windows. So that was something that came across. And then, of course, we have our school resource officers. And the important thing about the school resource officers are not only are they school resource officers, there truly are two amazing individuals in our buildings that form relationships with our students. And they have a bond with so many, they know our kids, they know the staff, they're part of the family. So that goes all under the prevention physical safety umbrella. And then finally the emotional safety, the interaction. This is the part I think that we can completely and absolutely control. In our classrooms when we know our students completely right we talk about we want to be a place for everyone we talk about in head and heart are we truly making a connection with every kid and are we making sure that they feel comfortable and they know they have a trusted adult we do the panorama surveys right say do you really have a trusted adult and we know by kid who does and who doesn't and how are we going to form that relationship um As we know, the intruder on Monday had a notebook that was left in the car. And in that notebook, this is a quote. This was what he had said. I don't have any friends. I don't any family. I've never had a girlfriend. I've never a social life. I've been an isolated loner my entire life. This was the perfect storm for a mass shooter. Those were his words. And so I keep going back and reiterating the fact that we have to build relationships with our students. Every single one of them, every single one of them. So it takes all of us in this community to do that. Parents, students, staff, all of us. So with that, I just want to thank everybody. We've also gotten a lot of community emails just thanking us for doing what we can for our students. And it is definitely heartbreaking to see this

happen over and over again. Do any of you guys have any questions? I'm not trying to put anybody on the spot, but to the extent anybody does want to have any questions or say something, go ahead. Okay. Okay.

So the first part of this presentation is sort of a segue from what Dr. Patel just talked about, and I just wanted to take a second to talk about sort of how all the students have responded to this tragedy. The first thing is that the students have sort of responded how you can expect them to. In general, you know, this is an issue in our country that students are afraid of. But it's almost getting to the point where this is like feeling like a normality and like this just is something that happens in our country. And, you know, whether or not we can do anything about it, like nothing really is being done about this at a legislative level. And, I mean, students are tired of that. Like, they want to be able to go to school and learn and feel safe. So, I mean, just in general, the students want these things to change, and I know our student body would 100% be behind the resolution we just signed. In terms of specifically what we talked about in terms of things that our district can do better, like Dr. Patel said, we do a great job with prevention and security and building the relationships so no one feels like they're ever in this type of position. But one thing that some students did talk about is how the district can respond when these types of tragedies happen elsewhere, and what we can do to support our students in the face of these emotional times. So some students talked about how they don't always feel like there's this super comfortable place in our school where they can just go to talk about these issues. Because we have a counselor's office and we have teachers who we trust, but ultimately it feels like going to... I guess for some students it almost feels like school is sort of like their job. And so, I mean, I guess the best way I can put it is if you guys would go talk to your boss when you're feeling emotionally... in a tough place and so I think just creating a space in the school where people can have a more personal relationship with their teachers or staff in general would be really helpful just so people have like a place to go to talk about things which are on their mind just in general and this isn't just specific to the issue of school shootings like just in general just having a place to go and talk about personal issues would be really helpful and also making sure that it's separate of like the academic side of school. So that was really the main thing that students talked about in terms of what we think could help. And the next part of this presentation is more about the presentation which is coming up next about diversity equity and inclusion so the first aspect of this is diversity so first we met with students across the district we talked to some people from bsu jsu gsa all these organizations and this is the overall feedback that we heard so first i just wanted to take a second to talk about like diversity in our district like as a whole So the first thing that students brought up was they were a little bit confused about ending the bus program where students from the city would be able to come to school at Clayton. I'm sure there are reasons that this program ended. Some students just feel like these reasons weren't necessarily communicated as well to students, and so some of them just don't necessarily understand why this program ended. And I guess they just wanted to make sure, obviously we know that you guys always have diversity in the front of your mind. We just wanted to make that why these types of programs are ending because this is obviously still a priority for students. And the second sort of issue is just diversity between different types of classes, specifically diversity in like the higher level honors AP classes. So we definitely have seen an improvement in this front, like there is definitely better diversity in these classes, but there's still like a lot of room for improvement in this area. So specifically, some students talked about how these classes need to be a little bit more accessible because in some circumstances it feels like sometimes it's almost on parents and students specifically to get themselves into those classes. And it would be helpful if teachers were the ones guiding this process so that it wasn't really on a student or on a parent to make sure that they could get into higher level classes. So again, just making sure that teachers are encouraging students to challenge themselves. And ultimately, we feel like this would have a much better experience, not only for those students who would be moving into these high-level classes, but for every other student in those classes. So that was definitely something that we talked about. And then the last thing was about the younger grade levels. And some students were actually glad to hear that, like, I'm pretty sure the extensions programs at the elementary schools were sort of sidelined because they talked about how it seems kind of unusual to be separating kids as young as first grade based off of how they were perceived to be doing in math classes. And while I understand that there are reasons to offer a gifted program to kids, ultimately... it might be more important to make sure that students aren't separated on this basis and sort of get the idea in their head when they're like six years old that like, oh these are the gifted kids and I'm not. So, I mean, that was just something that other students noted and obviously it's a complex issue but that was something in the back of their minds. The second part of this is about equity and how our policies can be better shaped to represent and be fair to everyone. So the first aspect of this that we talked about was in grading, which again sort of connects to the presentation last time. They were all really glad about the change from the zero to 100 to a 49 to 100 scale, and how this has been shown not just in our district but in districts everywhere that this has very good effects on equity at school. And also they talked about how not mandating homework has also helped on this front. But there were a couple questions because in terms of the 49 to 100 grading scale, this year, at least at the high school, there's been a slight change where Now there's, like, an INS feature which goes in as a zero, which essentially means, like, you just couldn't turn something in. And so it goes in as a 0. But I don't know. Like, those are always make-up-able. So it's just something that they were a little bit, like, confused about how this fits into the policy as a whole. The second issue that we talked about with equity is just, like, the structure of our day and our schedule. So a lot of people talked about how Greyhound time was a really... good thing because it's sort of like for the students who don't always have like equal access to teachers and stuff outside of the school day this offers like a really good chance to sort of even the playing field so that they have the time to meet with teachers uh if they like wouldn't otherwise have that time outside of school And then the third thing is just what students think teachers can sort of improve on and still Continue to work on to make sure that our schools are even more equitable First is just to always be aware and adaptive to different and unique circumstances as they do arrive Arise and secondly is just to really promote Greyhound time to students. We talked a lot about this especially at the last meeting how some students like it would be helpful just to know that their teachers like want them there at Greyhound time and Just teachers always encouraging students to come would be helpful. And then the third aspect of this is about inclusion. And we talked a lot about this in terms of how we can best have a representative staff at our schools. So specifically, students noted that we needed a little bit more diversity in our staffing and teachers at school because seeing people who you can identify with teaching you in schools is really important. Obviously students understand that, especially with teacher shortages and stuff, this isn't an immediate fix. But more like in long term, always making sure that we're prioritizing diversity in our staff. Specifically, they noted that it sort of seems like this diversity is more focused in specific areas and certain departments within our schools. They noted that almost all of our diverse teachers are in the humanities department. And it just seems like in general... but it's like sort of split up between departments almost and like some students noted how they haven't had a STEM teacher of color like their entire time at Clayton and I don't know that just seems like something that we can make sure we're not only making sure our staff population is represented as a whole but also as you break it down by department so that you know students don't feel pressured to pick one area over another. And then the last part of this presentation is just about responses to when we reached out to various groups. The main group that responded was the Jewish Student Union, who talked specifically about specific changes that we can make curriculums and education and professional development. So what they said is that they feel we need more content in both student education and professional development for teachers surrounding like teaching our students and teachers about various cultures and just how they can be more adaptive to different students who come from these different cultures and the needs of those students. Specifically, they talked about the rise in anti-Semitism and different extremist beliefs around America and how it's important to not only teach our teachers but also our students about identifying this sort of extremist content and how they can respond to it, because especially when we think about the profile of a graduate and them being culturally competent students, I feel like it's important for them to be able to identify these hateful and extreme messages, and also how they can properly respond to them. So that was something from JSU. And that is everything I have.

Thank you, Carter. Carter's smarter than all of us. I have a question. You are killing it with this job. I just hope you know

that. Dr. Poole and Ms. Todd are going to address quite a few of those things too

today. Yeah. I

was

first of all going to say thank you, Carter. Every time you speak, I am like so happy you're here and that we even just, I mean, first of all, just have a student representative on the board, but I learn something from you every time, and your insight to what our kids are feeling is so valuable. So thank you. And I had a question, actually I guess for Dr. Patel and Carter, is the first part of what you talked about and what Dr. Patel touched on about what we can control in these times of tragedy. We talked about trusted adults and our counselors. I started thinking, and you saying it's kind of like a work relationship that you're maybe not comfortable talking to your teacher or your counselor about things. You know, like at Y down in the high school, our students are assigned a counselor, like based on alphabet or grade. And I just started thinking that might not be the best fit for you when you're in crisis or have a problem or... something more serious to discuss. Like if you were going to hire a private therapist, you would pick someone that you fit with, like your personality and your needs. So I just wondered, and maybe it is like this and I'm not aware, do kids feel like, or is this even allowed, that it's flexible to walk in the counseling office and maybe not talk to your grade level counselor if you're having an issue, but you might feel more connected or have more in common with another counselor in there. I mean, I don't know if there's an answer to that, but do you have to talk to your assigned counselor? I would

hope. Here's the answer I'm going to say. I would hope that if a kid goes into the counseling center and their assigned counselor for some reason isn't available or they feel like I want to talk to somebody else, that all the doors are open. Okay. You know, and I... That would be our hope, I believe, and I'm sure the counselors would be doing that. It would be interesting to hear from a student perspective. If they feel that's the true program. That's the real program.

Yeah, what I would say is like in general people will usually go to their grade level counselor just because that is the person that they have developed a relationship with. But if a student does have like a close relationship with a different counselor, like I can't imagine a scenario in which... a counselor would say no to a student wanting to talk to someone. Okay, yeah.

I just didn't want to, it's like, it's so, like, formulaic. Like, it seems like that relationship should be more organic and not

assigned. But I also feel like the, like, larger issue is not, like, having an assigned counselor, but rather the counselor being the same person who you're, like, picking classes with and going over grades. Doing the

business part, like you said, at

your job. And just having that, like, sort of separate, I think, would be helpful.

So I sort of pointed out that as well, and so is it, you know, in the work setting, in the professional work setting, you may not want to go talk to your supervisor because there might be some sort of negative perception associated with you stepping forward. Clearly the district makes clear, like, we'll bring mental health resources for you, that's fine, but is it your perspective that there may be some students that aren't stepping forward to have these conversations because they're worried about negative...

I wouldn't say it's so much about a negative perception of stepping forward, but rather it's just a little bit more uncomfortable because this is just, I don't know, it just feels sort of awkward for students when it's the same people that they're doing all the school stuff with.

So is there concern, like if you go to the grade level, kind of what you were talking about, it's like they're taking care of the grades in your classes. And you go to that person that, you know, you know, maybe it gets back to the teacher what they're saying or maybe it gets back the parents, you know, what they're saying and so they, I don't know. Yeah,

I don't how often that specifically happens but I know that to some students it at least is like in the back of their mind that okay if I do go talk to this counselor maybe they have some legal ethical obligation to tell my parents or anything like that. It's definitely in the back of the mind.

Is it also a perception of skill set? So if you go to a counselor who you've only had a conversation with in the high school about what are the best college fits for me and what are my strengths and weaknesses as a student, Do you go to that same person when you're talking, when you're having an emotional issue? So back to the work thing. You don't go to your boss if you're having an emotion day, right? You might go talk to HR if it's an issue with another colleague or another, but you don't go to necessarily your department head. So I think that analogy that you used is actually very valuable and insightful. At least to help me to contextualize it in my own, you know, day-to-day setting. And I can see how that might be, you know, that's like a mental leap to think about going to the same person that you've had conversations maybe for up to going on four years about your strengths and weaknesses as a student, what your academic course load should be so that you have all your requirements for graduation. Where are you thinking about going to college? And then you're in crisis at home or with friends or just personally or whatever the case is, do you go back to that same person? I can see how that's a perception challenge both from the student standpoint.

I almost wonder as mental health and social emotional well-being becoming more and more of an important issue at schools across the country, are there other districts that are around the country, not even in St. Louis, that are thinking about counseling in a different way, like separating that? Maybe there are crisis and trauma counselors in school that are not ever talking to you about what classes you're signing up for or college. And then I just wonder if it's worth looking into. I mean, I

think... And there aren't. And oftentimes they're physically located in a different place, like Carter's point about having You know, it's difficult. I can see Tony and HR, they're going, oh, you know, I don't think we want to get teacher-student lounge together necessarily, right? Because there's all kinds of other potential issues, unintended consequences of that. But what you're talking about in terms of the separation of counseling skill sets between those types of counselors, in other schools, what I've noticed is that they're actually physically in different places. And even the layouts of their offices are different. So... You know, it's much more of like a business environment when you're sitting across talking to a college counselor versus like a comfortable lounge type of setting in a different part of the, like a different wing of the building almost when you're talking to somebody that you're going to for help.

And I'm looking at Robin. I know. Well, she and I have talked several times about this whole idea of mental health specialists in our district. Right.

And so a question for you, and then to continue on this point. even the nomenclature that we're using, calling our counselors counselors, I think, from my point of view as a mental health professional, is misleading. So something as simple as that, saying I have an academic advisor and then knowing there's this whole other group of supportive staff called counselors or whatever it is we choose to use, is a really nice way to give our district and our kids a mindset. I have really good support in my academics and my learning that I do here academically, and I also have these other wonderful staff that are there just for my social-emotional needs that I can trust and that don't, you know, there is none of that conflict that you're talking about. So I love what we're talking about here, and I know Nisha and Robin have been talking about this a lot, and I know that we all want to really see improvements here, and that we will. My question is, though, in the moment... Can you tell me, when you are presented as a student, you come into high school and you are presented with what we now call your counselor, your grade-level counselor, what are you told that they are there to help you do? Do they mention both academic and social-emotional? They do. Okay.

But in terms of implementation, like what they do when you first go to high school, it's almost like... You don't have to ask your counselor to help you with your academic stuff. You do have to go to them and sort of seek out all the other stuff. So from the get-go, in terms of what they actually do when you first work with them, it's all academic.

Right. Right. And I will say in their defense, as a former high school counselor, they are bogged down with the academic advising. That's what I think too. So it's not maybe that it's sometimes just a matter of their time. That's right. Which is unfortunate.

So why don't we suppose, do we have an update on our next board meeting? Oh, for the social-emotional, like we'll hear about the social-emitutional curriculum that's next being written. Yeah, I mean, I think this, you know, we can continue this conversation at the next meeting for sure and hopefully, you know, hear from... and what they're doing to, what's being done so that our vision that we have set forth in our strategic plan around social emotional health is being executed upon. So I'm excited to hear that. All right. Does anybody else have any other questions for Carter? No, thank you, Carter. Yeah. Thank you. Good job. Okay. So we are now on to our first study item, which is a place for everything. Everyone. Everything. Everyone. Both. Both. All of you. Okay.

So as they're getting settled in, I want to welcome Jenny Todd here today. She's going to be, I don't know if everyone has met her yet, but she's our coordinator of equity and inclusion, and she's actually the school counselor at Glenridge.

Nice to meet you all. She helps with all this

important work. It's been a great addition to the team. Nice to have you here.

Thank

you.

All right, good evening.

Good evening.

Carter's a tough act to follow. Thanks for having us. Board of Education, we're going to give you a strategic plan update on goal one of our strategic plan, which is building a place for everyone. Kind of echoing what Dr. Patel said, this is Ms. Jenny Todd who has been coordinator for equity and inclusion who's been working closely with me. She brings a wealth of experience and knowledge in helping me and us as a district continue to grow in the area of equity. She's got experience K-12 as a counselor, experience at the district level in counseling, has taught middle school and high school multiple subjects including science, including Spanish as well so she can like do It's been awesome to have her on the team and being able to bounce ideas and get ideas from her as well. So we will be co-presenting tonight. And given an update, I think this year the work is really starting to feel extremely real. I think coming into the district amidst the pandemic, they're kind of battling with all of the issues that come with that. definitely made the work challenging and really kind of getting to know the landscape of the district and really address what those needs are. So now that we're kind of in a semi-normal year, it's able to really hit the ground running in terms of implementing and as well as really getting a deep analysis in terms of the needs of the district.

And so I think Carter touched base on a lot of what we're gonna speak about tonight, really focusing on that profile of a graduate. We wanna make sure that equity, diversity and inclusion touches every aspect so that we make sure we do have a place for everyone. our students can grow as learners, and then that concept of in head and in heart. Because in order for all of our students to feel valued we have to touch on everything, whether it be that sense of belonging, which is what we're going to go into next. So today we're gonna update you on goal one of our district's strategic plan, which is that we want your all learners, regardless of their identity, they feel safe and they feel valued throughout their experience here at the School District of Clayton. And so we're going to present in three different areas. We're going to start with diversity and our diversity initiatives. And these initiatives touch on the presence of differences, and they can include aspects such as race, color, religion, socioeconomic status, gender. national origin, ancestry, even disability, age, genetic information, and even other personal characteristics that we have not named. We're also gonna discuss some of the equity initiatives that we are currently implementing which promote justice so that we can make sure that we have an even distribution of resources systemically. And then finally, our inclusion initiatives. We want to make sure that all of our diverse learners feel welcome, they feel safe, and they feel valued.

All right. One thing that we've been doing, especially with our work, is really making sure that we tie everything back to our educational equity policy. And looking at the different areas that we have pinpointed that we want to look at our data annually, each semester, each quarter. And being able to kind of take a two-prong approach. One, being able to look at the data that we have, whether it be qualitative or quantitative. but also matching that with a humanistic aspect. So as we get the data, are we engaging the necessary stakeholders in the work and in the changes that we look to make? So now we're going to look into our diversity initiatives. Starting with the diversity initiatives is our consistent professional development. That was one of our big mountains that we were looking to climb last year. and creating a structure of professional development for all of our teachers that is based in diversity, equity, and inclusion. Kind of just recapping through that, our year one through year three teachers go through equity professional learning sessions with me and Ms. Todd quarterly, and then as we get into years four and years five, really focusing on having teachers pick an individual focus that really is focused on empowered learning and individuality amongst the students. And then as teachers get into their tenure tracks, creating opportunities to where they're able to get educational and diverse, or different diverse experiences and diverse identities. So right now our focus in that realm with our tenure teachers is around The experience of our African-American students, as well as the experience of our LGBTQIA plus students as well, as we continue to expand that. We look to kind of have three categories in which teachers will be able to choose menu items that have to do with race and identity, one with culture, and one with learning characteristics. So, for example, race and identity would have to do with, you know, if we looked at a specific race of students or that had to do with race or gender. Culture would be more so based off of... What different cultures are we bringing, you know, based off of ethnicity or geography? And then from those learning characteristics, you know, specializing in things like, you know, going deeper into dyslexia or gifted learners and how they are impacted in the classroom or students with IEPs and disabilities. So giving teachers an opportunity to choose from each of those three categories and choosing one that they feel needs to be an area of growth for them. So constantly building on that. Our Place for Everyone series that we started last month, that the communications team is leading and highlighting a different student or staff and we're really just asking them who they are. Who are they culturally? Who are they individually? And being just able to showcase to our greater community just the diverse population that we have within the district. And then diving in, Carter touched on something that was super on par with the data that we captured last semester. So relating our panorama data to diversity. So last semester, we adopted the diversity and inclusion component to our panorama surveys that we give with the high school students. And we look to do it each spring and then expand that also to our middle school students as well. So just to kind of touch on two data points, our best data point and then our worst data point, just to kind of give us a frame of reference. With the question at your school, how often are you encouraged to think more deeply about race-related topics? This was probably the most even category we had in terms of 82% responding favorably and everyone being within six percentage points of that. So that was something that was key as well, especially when you look at how it's divided up amongst race. But then on top of that, what's the next step? Only 47% responded favorably to how well does your school help students speak out against racism. So we're having the conversations and challenging students to think more deeply, but we're not equipping the students with the tools in order to speak out against it. And in terms of really building up to that culturally competent component and our profile of a graduate, that's kind of where we need some work. So we're kind of halfway there. We just need to take that next step with equipping the students the tools to be able to speak out against racism Right. So now, in looking at our equity initiatives, one thing that's happening as we speak is a lot of revamping of our social studies curriculum. Paul Holscher, who's our social studies curriculum coordinator, has been strategizing and meeting with all of our teachers K-12 in terms of really revamping what our social studies curriculum does, how it highlights different identities, and making sure that it's putting a positive light on each identity as well as really teaching into that hard history. So K-2 was really building up, you know, helping students develop a social justice lens and kind of what does it look like in terms of seeing different issues within society, you know, kind of the roots of that and how to speak out against it. I know one thing, one particular subject that they've been looking at is really looking at the Mill Creek community and how, you know, the new soccer stadium is right on top of that and really looking at What did pushing African Americans out of that area look like in terms of the development of the city and really seeing how those components all kind of tie in together. So really trying to develop that early lens with students being able to see how society treats different groups of people. And then when we look at three through five, really preparing our students to get ready for that hard history. So part of that is a humanization process, which didn't take or hasn't taken place as much as we would like. So really looking at diverse groups under what they look like in terms of identity and culture pre-colonialism and how did colonialism have an impact on that? So really kind of tying into those early times to where we can build a sense of empowerment with those communities and then see how the impacts of colonialism looked once it began. And then at the high school level, there's a lot of work going on and really looking at trying to make our elective courses more equity-centered and more culturally responsive. We're also piloting AP African American History as an AP course for the first time this year. So that's up and running as well, and I know there was a lot of interest in getting into that course too. So a lot of work in terms of what that looks like from a curriculum standpoint

in social studies. And so our work begins with data. Data is extremely important when we're trying to decide how to best serve our students and our community. And so one of the things that we're doing this year is utilizing our equity committee to look at actual real-time data, to look for trends and areas where we need to focus. So we've already started that work online. with the help of the curriculum department by pulling some of our academic data. So moving forward for two months, we're taking a look at academic data both in literacy and the area of math. And as a committee, we're looking at trends and then getting feedback and recommendations based on those trends that we're observing. After we take a look at the academic data, we'll then take a look at our social emotional data as well because we want to see if there are relationships or correlations between both the academic data and that social emotional data. And each time as a committee we take a look the data, we get additional input and feedback And as we continue to do that, by the time the school year ends, we're hoping that as an equity committee, we can have recommendations that Dr. Poole and I can take a look at and help serve the districts better. Also looking at tier two interventions. When you look at a multi-tiered support system to support students, again that equity begins in the classroom and on all of our campuses. And so we need to be aware of the data and how those two tier interventions will help support any of the trends that we're noticing. And so when we talk about tier two interventions, those are interventions that are above and beyond what we already do for every student in the classroom in both the areas of academics, social-emotional learning, and behavior.

So kind of tying all of that together, it's really looking at, OK, from a grassroots standpoint, how are teachers implementing this on a daily basis? And how can they grow to incorporate a lot of the same mindset and focus that we have at the systems level? So here's an example from a teacher in terms of students needing to reach different objectives and benchmarks. And not only are we using assessment to drive that, but also asking students from a confidence standpoint, how confident do they feel at each step? And like for example on this chart if students are choosing The area in which they feel the most, how far up they feel like they can go from a confidence standpoint and seeing how that matches up exactly with how they scored in those assessments. So really using how they feel in terms of their self-efficacy and how that really matches up with how they're scoring. So kind of how this would show up. Again, kind of going back and forth to seeing where a four is. That's where we think we've achieved our objectives. And then five and six would be beyond. And anything below a four would still be kind of striving to get to that level. So as teachers are going through each of those objectives and kind of using these anchoring charts with their students, really kind of putting it into those tiers. So if you kind of look at, you know, once half the students mastered it and then kind of where were they at in terms of their self-assessment, in terms of their confidence level. So, for example, if a student was a one, that was little to understanding and possibly many errors that they might have had. So C is for corrected and R is for re-taught. So it's kind of giving teachers a chart and some data to look at. So after we look through three different objectives, we can kind of see some trends. So how are we seeing growth from objective to objective? And what does confidence level look like as we move from objective to objective as well? And are there some things that we need to do more from a classroom level? For example, if you look at the third one, maybe there needs to be some reteaching there for a class as a whole. But maybe as we look at the other ones, really looking at, okay, if I only have one or two students that are struggling, how can we individualize for them and not only incorporate that in our everyday instruction but also give them the intervention that they need individually as well? So Really trying to be data-driven and kind of linking where we're at, especially as we look at self-efficacy, you know, being one of our focus points within our panorama data. How are we starting to build up that self-efficacity within our students on a daily basis? And then also, how does that match up with their achievement levels as well?

inclusion initiatives with you all. The first one that we'd like to talk about are the community engagement forums. We had one last fall and last spring, and last spring there was a huge focus on inclusion, equity, and diversity. And the areas that we took a look at were curriculum, access to programming, student support services, sense of belonging, and professional learning. And it was a great opportunity for community members to come in and provide their feedback. In addition, it was a great for community members to network. And so the second initiative was actually born out of the community engagement forum because Dr. Poole and I took a look at all of the feedback from the night, and one of the nights is a lot of our parents would like more of an opportunity to network with like-minded individuals and individuals with similar backgrounds. And so that's where the idea of parent empowerment nights come from, and we're actually having our first one tomorrow night. We're extremely excited. It's for parents of African American students in the district, and it's an opportunity for our parents to network organically. So Dr. Poole and I have created some prompts and some topics for them to discuss if they're having a hard time coming up and feeling comfortable around each other at first, but we would really like for them to have the opportunity to have an organic conversation meet other parents from their same campuses, meet other parents from different campuses. There may be an elementary school family who would like to know what will the middle school high school experience be or middle school parents who have a student who just transitioned to high school and so we want the parents to have an opportunity to have those conversations in a safe comfortable environment. And then we're also planning an international family night because a lot of the feedback that we received from the community engagement forum indicated that a lot of our international families were also seeking that place to meet other international families and have those organic conversations as well.

Alright, then moving into different district and campus cultural celebrations. I know a lot of our elementary schools have been able to get back to having international nights and international coffees and things like that, that were kind of placed on hold during COVID. So I know a lot programming has gone into really reinvigorating a lot of the school-to-school celebrations that did occur pre-COVID. And each building is focusing on different tasks that they want to do within their buildings as well. And then from a district standpoint, really continuing to add events and enhance events that we do each year. Like last semester, we did our first event for AAPI month and continuously to add on different cultural celebrations that we can do as a district. We're looking at a possible festival to do during Black History Month on a Saturday that would have different events and activities to engage the community during Black History Month as well. And then segueing onto that, yesterday and actually last night and last week I got an opportunity to speak with a lot of folks within our Jewish community. Me and Dr. Kaczewski went to the JSU meeting last night and met with the students, as well as their JSU sponsor, and I was able to meet with the HAC last week and really talk about what the rise of anti-Semitism looks like in the nation and how we can better support our Jewish community within the district and really show forms of solidarity. So had a lot of good conversations with that in terms of different things that we can use from a professional development standpoint, but then also once we segue into, you know, Jewish Heritage Month as well, what are some events that we can do, you know, as a district that really affirms that stance, you know, and in solidarity with that as well. So kind of moving on with that, and to like our student support group, so having the opportunity to meet with a lot of different student support groups in the district since I've been in. Like I said, we met with the JSU last night and had some great conversation. It was just great for me to listen and really learn that perspective. In the past, we've met with the BSU as well as other student organizations as well just to look at what the student experience is like and what we can do. Then looking at student support groups from a social-emotional standpoint. So it's looking at our Panorama data, we're looking at our sense of belonging, our self-efficacy, and what are some specific groups of students that we can target even more specifically. So this semester, we're piloting a group that meets every Thursday during Greyhound time of our African-American males. So we have about 13 African-American males that meet each Thursday, and we bring in a outside facilitator named Tony Thompson. who has his own company, and he does a phenomenal job in really just working on self-efficacy, self-empowerment, and really creating a safe space, an affinity space for students to really come into their own and feel that closeness that they may not feel on a regular basis. I know we have a lot of organic groups as well with our African American girls that are ran by different staff members too. And it's looking at, after piloting the program and seeing how it is, how can we now expand it to different groups of students and expand it down to the elementary and middle schools as well. So again, that's where we're at. Again, it all ties back to our strategic plan and profile of the graduate and really giving the students the skills that they need in order to be successful and understanding that in order to do that, it's looking at each individual identity and making sure that we're doing what we need for that identity to make sure that they can reach and ultimately embody the profile of the graduate.

That was terrific. Thank you to both of you. Questions, comments?

Go ahead. Thank you for being here. Thank you for all the work you're doing. Great job presenting it. I'm really happy to be the board rep for your committee. I'm learning quite a bit, and I really appreciate respect the way you guys are approaching this and the input that you get from the entire staff and faculty. It's just, I do feel really good about the direction we're headed and the way that you are being data-driven and so kudos. My question is actually for When we want to do this work, and we know how important it is, we know that each staff member that is engaged in this kind of work, as you both are, has only a certain amount of hours in the day to do all this work. So my thought for you, Jenny, is you have two roles. You are both the counselor at Glenridge as well as this amazing coordinator. How does that work for you on a daily basis? Where are you? I don't need details. I'm just wanting to know for sure that our efforts are not being too divided among our specific staff. I want to know that you feel you have enough time to do both jobs to the extent that is required. Just being the Glen Ridge counselor is a big job. So now you have this other role. So what does that look like for you?

I think that's a great question. So what it looks like is, of course, during the day, the majority of the time, I am at Glenridge serving the students at Glenridge. But what I love about this role is that I can take advantage of opportunities. This work begins in the classroom. So at Glen Bridge, and I'll expand to the other campuses in just a second, I'm able to collaborate with teachers and look at counseling also. Well, I'll talk about that in just a second. But collaborate with teachers about equity initiatives or practices, even those conversations about interventions for students who may be having struggles academically or who may need extra support for certain behaviors, or even those students that we need to reach who may need to be stretched a little bit more because they're doing so well. We want to make sure that they feel that they're part of the class environment too. That's equity. Being the coordinator, I meet with so many groups in the district, whether it be the other curriculum coordinators, our new teachers, years one through three, our career teachers. And so being able to provide professional development and that equity lens when I attend those meetings through PD, through shared experiences and interactions. So taking advantage of those opportunities. Is that it? Yeah, so

you feel like there are enough hours in the day for you to be a full-time counselor and to have this role on top of that. Yes. Beautiful. Thank you.

You're welcome.

I know all you guys have something to say. Who's next?

All right, I'll go. I thought maybe we'd go around the

horn here. So on the slide where you said the next wave of work to do, if I heard you correctly, is students feeling that they feel comfortable being able to speak out. And that was at 47%. That was the overall. So maybe talk, is there a goal for how far you want to get one year from now or three years from now? And then working backwards from that, what's the plan to fill the gap?

That's a good question. I think, you know, with adding the questions in last semester, we kind of were just trying to get a baseline on where we are. And this kind of gave us a good, you know, a good breakdown on kind of where we are. I think it reflected exactly, you know, what Carter was saying. I think it boils down to making sure that, you know, our teachers feel confident and And being the profile of a graduate and teaching our students to embody that as well. In terms of where our numbers are, the goal is that they continue to go up. I think with continuing to really work with our humanities teachers, especially with the work happening in social studies, we're hoping that that has an effect on what those numbers look like. as well as continuing to curate and get resources to teachers when there are hot-button topics, like what just happened this week, and every teacher having that opportunity to really talk about those things and really dig into the nuances. A lot of our professional development focuses on being able to have those hard conversations within the classroom. So I think we've got a lot of things kind of going in place right now. So it will be very interesting to see what these numbers look like in the spring again. I would like to, we don't specifically have a goal like, hey, we want to be at 55% by the spring. I think we do want to see a steady increase. And I think looking at what the numbers look like next year will give us two years kind of side-by-side to really, kind of give us direction in terms of where we need to go in terms of really attacking it. So there is no specific number, but we do have some things in place and we want to see if those have a positive effect on the numbers in the spring. And

Jason, just to piggyback on what Cameron said, when looking at a panorama-type survey and this type of a sample size, they have stated to us a 3% to 4% increase is significant.

Okay. All right. That's helpful. So just

to kind of give you a

background. Yeah. Next question. Sorry, there's only three. You guys have 90 minutes, right? So you referenced the actual data that the Equity Committee is working through and disaggregating. Maybe you can talk a little bit about both when looking at the academic data and the social-emotional data. What's the biggest success that we can celebrate? And then what's the biggest challenge that you guys see ahead working through that data?

Or do you even have the baseline data yet?

Yeah. Yeah, so we have the baseline data that we're working off of right now. So right now we're looking at, like I said, math and literacy data. So October was the first time we dug into the data. So to break it down, October and November are dedicated to academic data. Okay. So, for example, we're looking at – you know, like I said, math and literacy. So we've got baseline data designated by race, and really just looking at it from a three-year standpoint, three to four-year standpoint, and seeing what do we see in terms of year-to-year? Is there growth? And we've got it broken down into quartiles in terms of, you know, 50% being the baseline of being on grade level, on up, and then below grade level on the other side of that 50%. So really looking at just how those numbers change year-to- So one thing that we've really looked at is a lot of movement and high numbers in those middle quartiles. So if 50% is on grade level, those kids are matriculating between 35% to 40% and like 60%, 65%. And kind of how are we moving the needle with them? And I think that ties into our Tier 2 interventions as well because, you know, kids who are on grade level and doing fine, the Tier 1 things that we are doing within the classroom are working. we have a lot of teachers and specialists and certified folks who work hard with our Tier 3 kiddos who are really struggling. But how are we moving the needle with those middle kids? And which way are we seeing movement? And in some cases, we see movement backwards. With some, it's frontwards. And I think as we looked at it from an umbrella standpoint, one thing that I asked the committee to do was to kind of say, okay, where do we need to go deeper into this data? So if we've got it from an umbrella stand point, do we need to break it down in terms of looking at individual profiles of all the kids who are within 35 to 55% and seeing what they've looked like from year to

year.

You know, do we want to break it down in terms of socioeconomic status? Do we need to dive into how our students with IEPs are scoring and what their movement looks like? So it's like starting from an umbrella and then figuring out from a committee, where do we need to go deeper? We'll unpack that data at our November meeting and then come up with some academic conclusions that we can draw from that before we move on to social

motion. Cool. And you referenced tier two interventions. Can you give me just one or two quick examples of what that looks like?

Okay, cool. So tier one would be everything that's classroom practice. Yes. So pretty much your universals. Right. Tier two would be those kids to where those tier one universals may not be meeting the cut for those students. So maybe there's some extra things that they need. So one thing that we started developing last year is really using our PLCs within our teacher learning communities to really kind of be that tier two support. So as they meet during our professional development days and during their POC time, they have the necessary data and information they need to say, okay, I've got these few kids that I'm struggling with in math. Another teacher may have them. What are some things that we're doing? Because maybe this teacher over here is doing well with them. So it's kind of the sharing of ideas with teachers within their team and then going back to implement those. And maybe that looks like maybe a little bit of intervention from a specialist in that PLC or a counselor if it's social-emotional related or so on. Tier three would be when we go back and implement those tier two strategies that were discussed, those aren't even working. So once we get to tier three, we need to get more intensive. Does that mean testing for an IEP? Does that mean some deeper social-emotional intervention that needs to take place? Does that mean a specific schedule that needs to take play? So those tier twos are, okay, my first, you know, for lack of better words, bag of tricks isn't working. What's kind of my backup that I can go to to kind of meet those kids where they are? Cool.

Thanks for tolerating

me. No problem.

So I have one comment and one question, as I usually seem to like to do. But as a comment, I just want to acknowledge and just express appreciation for the fact that we are in this conversation talking about the fact that we have a lot of different groups. But we're not just talking about the fact that we're diverse, we're melting pot, we have Asian kids and we have Jewish kids and we have black kids and we have white kids, and sort of just stopping there. You're talking about having these conversations about the specific things that as a society have happened and are happening to those groups. we're talking about displacing communities, we're talking about anti-Semitism. I think, I don't know if this is a similar experience, but I feel like maybe as a student myself, there was this sort of like, we're cool, we have people that are different here. There's black people, there's other people, and there's, you know, different colors and so everything's fine just because they are in the same place. I just really appreciate that we're talking about that, but we're talking about things that happen to these different groups and that we need to address, and giving a place for that. And I think that's just really important, and it's different somehow. So I really like that you talked about some different things there, and that we're doing that. So thank you for modeling that. And so the question that I have, it kind of goes along with what Chris was saying. Our job as the board I think, to set these goals but also facilitate the things that are needed to implement them and to make them a reality. So are there things, are there resources, are there things that you need or that you are starting to identify that you need more of to help us really accomplish this goal and what we state that will ensure this place for everyone? Talk to us about that.

For sure. You know, it's very interesting. I talk to a lot of people who have my same role in other districts and the role looks completely different per district depending on who you're talking to. And like we said, luckily, blessed by you all and being committed to the work, really being able to really do the work and really expand on it and look at it over multiple avenues. I think As we continue to uncover more and we get deeper and deeper into the work, those questions will be answered. A year ago, it was just me up here talking, and now we have Ms. Todd here as well contributing to the work too. So I think as the work continues to expand and we continue to dive deeper and deeper and really solve a lot of the inequities that we have, we'll definitely be able to pinpoint where those needs are. Like I said, right now, within this year, kind of being the first non-COVID year, so to speak, it's really given us an opportunity to dive deep. And I think once we're able to assess, you know, what those specific need areas are, you know, we'll be able to really say, you know, with the student group we're doing with the African-American boys at the high school, that was something that, you know, we didn't have the capacity to facilitate. So we were able to outsource for that and provide that experience. So I think it will probably pop up in the, you know, it will pop its head up, you know, through the, you know through like individual programming and things like that so that certain people aren't stretched too far. and we're able to be super specific on what those things need to be. So I think time will tell as we continue to move forward and we continue to pinpoint where exactly we need to add more

support. I think I want to also just clarify that in asking that question, just speaking for myself, I expect to hear some, like, we need this from you all because I'm I don't think we are doing everything that we need to and want to do from the start or we wouldn't be, we wouldn't have this, all of this as a focus. So I think, you know, I wanna hear what the, that doesn't mean we're gonna do everything or be able to do everything and support everything but my expectation is that we would after some time hear some, you know what we really need to do better at this? It's this thing or that funding or whatever it is so. I'm not asking that hoping you'll tell me, oh no, we're fine. You don't have to worry about it. But that's what I would expect to hear. If you're giving a green light, I'll

start asking. We can have a talk. But yeah, for sure. And that's something that we appreciate as well, knowing that. You know, it's not a, you know, we don't have to have a level of fear in asking, you know, knowing that we're committed to the work. So that definitely gives us the confidence.

Thank you both. The presentation was great, and the work you're talking about doing, I'm so impressed with. And I think you two are such a good team. I can tell you have complementary skills to help each other out with the work. I just had a couple comments. One was about what you just mentioned, the group of African-American males at the high school that gets together with the outside facilitator. I think that is such a great... First of all, I think you said it was maybe you hired an outside facilitator just to not stretch anyone too thin, but I actually think that's such a great idea going back to kind of what we were talking about with Carter earlier that those students can probably be less inhibited just in their conversation that it's not a staff member from the school. So I actually think that a really great idea whether that was the intent or not. I mean, I could see that working for all kinds of – all of these groups of students just without it being a teacher or someone they have to go see later in school where they might be embarrassed and not really be as open and honest with each other. So I think that's a great example of that. And also I love that you're doing these parent – I love, first of all, that you're calling it Parent Empowerment groups or whatever, but I think that is such a key piece to this. The parents feeling a sense of belonging in our district as well as the students. And when you said it came out of the community engagement forum, it actually made me remember from that last community engagement forum that I happened at one point be talking with a parent of a transgender student who met another parent of a transgender students whose students were actually in different I don't want to offend anyone because I don't know if I'm using the right term, but different stages or phases of their journey through that. And so I just like, it was so great to see that they were leaning on each other. Anyway, so I'm so happy that those ideas came out of those events. And I think that doing this with our parents will only trickle down to their children and make the whole family feel like they belong, which is so important. So great idea. Thank you.

Good. So thank you, guys. Thank you for the presentation. Thank you for all the work that you've done on this so far. I think what would be great for me and maybe for others on the board is it sounds like you do have some baseline data for that disaggregated data, if you could share what it is so that the next time that we talk to you we know where progress is being made and where progress is stalling out. And then the other thing that I would say is as you look at the academic data, as you look at some of the SEL data, there's stuff that those numbers are just never going to reflect. which I know you guys are painfully aware of, but I've heard you say that there may be another way to cut the data in terms of socioeconomic status. But really asking students the kind of questions and getting feedback from Carter here is the stuff that will help inform why maybe some of those numbers are the way they are, especially when you're looking at the math and literacy scores. For example, how many students are getting support outside of the classroom? Doesn't matter how much professional learning we're doing with our teachers, if 50%, 70%, 20%, I don't know what the number is of students are getting additional tutoring in subjects that some parents, some families have the abilities to pay for outside of the classroom. So that's one of the things that I would say is something that probably deserves a little attention. The other thing is when we talk about you know, a place for everyone, especially when it comes to the high school or secondary school. We can maybe include the middle school and some of that now. A lot of students spend time doing things outside of the classroom where some of this professional learning isn't taking place with coaches with drama professionals, with orchestra, with band, with whatever it is that their interests are inside of the classroom. And we have the privilege of being a district that allows any student to make any club that they want provided they can get an executive sponsor in the form of a teacher. And I can't under emphasize how much of an impact, for example, a coach can have on a student. When you have an athlete in the high school that's spending 10 hours a week or more with an individual coach, what happens on and off that playing field in terms of that coach's communication to the athlete, in terms of that team's interaction with other teams at other schools, in terms of some of the less than stellar interactions that occur between teams and how those coaches deal with that, and how the teams deal with that, whether they deal with it at all. Those are all things that impact a kid's sense of belonging in our district, and I think that it's an area that we haven't really spent really any time since I've been on the board talking about, but now that I do have kids in the high school, I can see that has a big impact. And a lot of these things that happen in terms of a kid's sense belonging happen outside of school, but at school-affiliated events. So I don't know how we figure out how to incorporate that stuff in, but I think given the amount of time, again, that some of our students spend with coaches, with other teammates, it's something that we should think about. And during the middle school ages, when my kids were younger too, a lot of the incidents that happened in terms of negative incidents based on race also occurred outside of the classroom. Whether it was on the playground, whether it was after school, a lot of these things happen outside the watchful eye of our teachers in a formal classroom setting. And so I don't know. I don't have a solution for how we try to capture that other than talking to students and giving them a safe place where they feel like they can talk to other adults about that, but it's a big part of the work that you guys are doing that will never get captured in professional development if we only focus on the teachers that are in our district.

So let me respond to that. So the first portion of that, as we dive into the data, and we continue to get deeper into specific groups, one of the next phases of that, so if we're looking at a group of students within a certain identity grouping, within a certain percentile of scores, bringing them to the table in terms of what their experience is, and referencing back to the equity policy in terms of once we have a good feel for you know, our data, humanizing that data and reaching out to those individual groups or individual students or families to really give us a full picture. So that is a part of the process. We're just not there yet in terms of identifying what are the key groups and stakeholders we need to bring to the table to have those deeper conversations. And I'm glad you brought up the part about athletics and stuff, you know, being an ex-coach and actually, you know, meeting with Steve Hudson a lot over at the high school. And I know he's incorporated different surveys that have to do with sense of belonging and disaggregated the data with a lot of his coaches as well. to make sure that they're feeling a sense of belonging not only on the team but on the field and that they feel supported. I've met and I've led PD just with coaching groups because, again, like a lot of what we talk about in terms of equity, coaches do. They put players in the right position to be the most successful based on their strengths. They coach different players differently, maybe harder on one player but more softer with another to make sure that they can reach their goals. So coaches embody a lot of the work that we're doing. I totally agree with you, and like I said, me, myself, and Steve Hudson, and we've had these conversations. Actually, my... And I can share this data with you as well. My dissertation that I wrote for my doctorate was based off of participation in athletics and extracurricular activities. So what I did was, and I pulled data from Clayton for that, I took three graduating classes and I broke it down into GPA and ACT scores. And I divided the kids up by race, socioeconomic status, and IEP status, and we also looked at them in terms of kids and zero activities, one activities or two plus activities. And then looking at those numbers across any demographic, across any identity, um, the more activities kids were in, the higher their GPA and ACT scores were. Um, I could have looked at that and you know, that's to panorama data and different things as well. But, for sheer time and just trying to get that dissertation done. I just, I knocked it out, but there is a correlation with that. And student success is a big part of that. So as we talk about that sense of belonging and having those conversations, um, and I've sat down, you know, with the drama and fine arts programs at the middle school and the high school in terms of potential barriers that, you know, don't give equal representation of who we are as a district and different recruitment tactics to, um, you know, to use to have a more diverse population with that and kind of looking at what those access points are. So a lot of those conversations are happening. And my bad for not sharing that. I lose track with all the stuff that happens on a daily basis. But a lot of our teachers and our facilitators and our coaches are, you know, dedicated to that. We've had those conversations at a lot of levels at the middle school and high school.

That's good.

And I can incorporate some of that data and information in the next report.

Okay, that'd be great. And then last year, I remember you had reported, I think, together with Milena on, it might have been a different panorama survey, but there was definitely a question in there about sense of belonging. And it dropped precipitously from elementary to middle school, and then it dropped again from middle school to high school. So we did have a baseline last year. Did you guys ask that same question? I appreciate that you guys gave us kind of the bookends of the highest percentage response and the lowest percentage response that correlates to there seems to be a gap here. But last year, there definitely were questions in the student surveys about sense of belonging. And I think we all expressed concern about how it seems to be very high and peak at the elementary school and then drop as they go into middle school and secondary school. And so did we ask that same question? Has it gotten any better? Has it stayed the same?

So what we did with that is actually look at why that is. And again, stemming from... The community engagement to the empowerment nights and asking those specific questions. A lot of folks were talking about how tight-knit things at the elementary school things were, and then they just get thrown into the middle school, and they're disconnected from friends, and they don't have a familiar teacher, and everything is new, and it takes time in order to kind of get the hang of things. I have to do it all over again. So one of the number one things that we got was how can we create opportunities for people to build those networks so when they matriculate on to the next level, those relationships are already kind of built, which is starting with these empowerment nights and kind of expanding from that, creating more opportunities for parents to get together district-wide so that when kids do get together, they already have kind of that relationship. So a lot of that had to do with You know, elementary schools being tight-knit, fewer kids, fewer of the same teachers, things like that. And then, you know, once they get to middle school, things just kind of expand, you know, at a high rate. So create an opportunity. So hopefully, especially as we target the data and look at specific identities, we can kind of see some correlations that this work is working to see if we need to work harder than being able to do that.

Okay, so we have anecdotal evidence from the community nights we have, but we didn't ask that question again is what I'm hearing in this latest survey. We did. We asked

the exact same question. I'm actually looking at the data. We closed the window for the panorama data recently, so Robin is still desegregating it. From the time they presented it, we had given the spring version, and it was steady last year. So it didn't get better or worse? No. Okay. Because it was 73% at the elementary school that had a sense of belonging. At the secondary, we ended the year at 58% at the middle school and 49%.

Yeah, and that's what I remember is that it just got, you know, it just drops. And so I knew it was something that we talked about. Well, we need to figure out why. I think we figured out maybe some of the why is what I'm hearing, but it doesn't sound like we've figured out how to

improve that sentiment. So we're hoping that this fall, the most recent fall data gives us a different picture. So we should have that by the next board meeting. Okay, so we'll see. And

it would be, I would imagine, and I could be wrong, that from the spring to the fall we wouldn't see much jump. Right. Just because spring and then we hit the summer and then they come back and do it for the fall and they really haven't gotten into the groove. So I would think our best bet engagement would be fall to spring or just spring to spring. You know, year to year coming around and being able to see whether we're making some progress. Great.

Jason? Carter?

Come on, Carter. I was waiting on you. That was great. Thank you. Okay, so why

don't

we take a short five-minute break. and then we will come back and talk about our policies.

I'm going to sit in this chair. These chairs are low. I know. I'm not 16. I need something between my legs.

Pull up right up. All right. This is

comedy hour.

Jason, if you want, you can actually sit on that chair and put your feet on that.

I have ADHD and I'm proud of it. A place for everyone.

Who's Jason? All right, who's the board? Let's talk about our capital improvement projects. All right. And that's actually an action item. Yes. So should I read the motion? Yeah.

I move that the Board of Education authorize district staff to proceed with engaging design services for the projects as presented with a goal of constructing these projects during the 2023 construction season.

So it's been moved and seconded. Questions?

So has everybody had a chance to look at this? Because if you haven't, it might be. Or if you've only spent a little time looking at it. John spent a lot of time together with Nisha kind of putting this all together. It kind of captures stuff that I believe, at least, is valuable and necessary investments to complete some projects that we actually had already communicated to the public that are done. But they're not really done done. is the way that I would put it. And there are types of projects, too, that are pretty visible. So they go a long way towards the continued kind of brand, the Clayton brand, the branding of Clayton, the whole perception that the community has of the school district even if they no longer have kids in our district or have kids that could be coming into the district. So, I mean, I don't know, John, Misha, do you guys want to add anything else to that? No, I mean, just

so everybody knows what these improvements are, we're going to be doing some amazing things to Edsic Field and to Gatefield. The press box, I know the coaches are really excited about the press box. They're going to make our locker rooms super cool and have proper ventilation. Which is gross that they don't today already. Can you

imagine? No. I can speak to Edsic Field a little bit because before I was on the board, I was very involved in the fundraising and that project. All of this was supposed to be completed then. Right. everything that's mentioned here. The press box, and the dugouts, and I think... On the field too? No, I'm just asking. The press box was going to be two stories, the PA press at the top, and underneath would be I think maybe bathrooms and a concession stand and the dugouts. And then just for financial reasons we couldn't afford it all. So we chose the things that were most important which was first of all the turf field, the new lighting, the new scoreboard. But Isaac Field, as you all probably remember, was not solely funded by the district. We solicited private donations from community members and corporations. So to Kim's point, people that donated were donating for the complete project at the time. And then kind of halfway through the fundraising, i think it was then kind of quietly maybe just decided or announced that there would be a phase two to kind of finish it so people donated money thinking that this is what it was going to all look like and that there would be at base two completed at some point in the near future so yeah there were

renderings there were renderings for all of it we're saying though Because of the economic reasons, specifically because the prices of these materials have gone up tremendously, right? Is that what we're talking about? At the time, I think

that it was... They just didn't raise

enough money.

Yeah.

But this was 20... It was pre-COVID. Oh, it could have been 17. So we raised the money

during that time. Then we started the project for

Shanla.

Yeah,

yeah.

The cost

of the project was higher than expected. Of course it is. It always is after it starts. And I think the amount of money that was raised did not have enough contingency to cover everything that was envisioned and sold to the donors. And so this is what was envisioned that is still left to be done.

Right. And how much was it again? How much is it?

We have to get this free down. It's what's left. I mean, we don't know the answer to that. But I think it's somewhere, what's in here? I think at the time, what was

not built was estimated around three quarters of a million. It probably was a good buy compared to today's pricing. Yeah, so for these

two projects now, the estimate without actually having them, that John has put up is between two and three million. But that's a total, you know, swag until we actually get costs. So it's not a request to go do these projects. It's a request to go get estimates so that we can decide if we want to complete these projects. But I do think that these two projects, again, are pretty high profile. They were... promises made but not yet delivered in some cases, especially with respect to ADSEC. And then I don't know how much time, I think all of us have spent some amount of time at Gay Field, whether it's through the Merrimack Elementary end of year parties, or you know, I know you don't have kids yet in the middle or high school that necessarily use the fields, but you know, Gayfield compared to other high schools of our size and certainly of our stature is pretty... So, you know, I mean it's one of those things where, you know, as we're investing in...

How much do we have like sitting around of that money that was raised that didn't go towards these projects? Is there any money left over or is it all just pretty much zero? If it was the

doer, we would have done it. Yeah,

but we do have money for capital improvements that we raised during Prop E and Prop C that are earmarked for capital improvements. So there is money available for capital improvement projects, and these are two that have been identified where we might want to spend that money once we figure out what it costs to do this. So that's really what this is.

And I think this goes back to something that you were saying, actually, earlier, Kim, with Cameron's presentation. Our kids spend so much time not only in the classroom, and we take pride in that, right? Like our facilities in the classroom and the resources, but they spend so much time on the fields and activities, and why would we not have the best facilities around there as well? Yeah, and it's a

reason that we often aren't chosen to host, like... you know, district events or regional events. I mean a lot of stuff is going to Ladue, a lot of stuff's going to other schools and we're not getting opportunities to do that and part of it is because of the state of our facilities. And I

would say to your point about being high profile, like ATSIC is a part of Shaw Park and Clayton Rec Sports also use it. They do. There's maybe an opportunity to have the city Maybe I'm crossing a line. Yeah, no, but

it's pitching

on this. Or some property developer. I mean, I do know we rent it out. We do, I think, make money. Does Fontbonne still use it for baseball? You know, we do...

It's a very popular rental site.

Right, and now, because of the turf, yeah, we do make money that way on it. But it's a part of our public city park, so it is, to your point, high profile for the district, but just to the whole community, it's usable. My question, though, for Nisha is, I assume you have either a mental or an actual list of capital improvement projects across... the board, through all of our buildings and facilities. And I'd love to know like one, how did you choose these two right now to focus on? And two, maybe like what are some of the others and how did you prioritize which ones we should look at first? So John and

I actually, we really have been having these conversations for a while now in terms of capital improvement plans. And really just creating like a five-year timeline of that. And for me, since I would say last year, these two have been high priority. Especially just finishing up at Ziegfeld and then gay. Because that truly is a community thing. like events are held there. When you think about homecoming alone, right? We have alumni that come back. And again, it's that emphasis on athletics and activities that I've had from last year. And talking to Steve Hudson and our coaches, it's an area that we need to improve on. We really do. And so that's why I tended to go more over here. And then the other projects, I know John's been talking to Jim Brunel as well. John, I don't know if you want to expand on the list or the plan moving forward. Well,

initially, you know, the construction environment today is so different than it was pre-COVID and timelines are just way longer. Labor shortages, supply chain issues. We're still finishing up projects from this past summer. So I don't want to miss the next construction season in 23. These are projects that are, and that field is far enough along that we can, I know we can build it. The other one, I think we can get ready and get it built. As far as projects that can be achieved for next year, these are two of the groups. They're high profile, but they're not that big. And a lot of work's already

been done on one of them. So

I think we can do that. Everything else we're looking at would... take longer so we really need to start planning that really for this next spring and stuff to look at what's going to be in 2024 building season

yeah and not to jump the gun on like you know committee updates but it's one of the things that we talked about with the uh with the finance committee when we met and our goal is to bring them a comprehensive list of those projects that could occur 24 and beyond when we meet with them again in january so um well

that's great So please say yes to this. Yeah, so let's do it. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Good. Motion passes. And now we are on to... or employee benefits renewal.

I move that the Board of Education approve the insurance provider's, the plan design's benefit summaries, premium rates and district contributions for 2023 as presented, and authorize district administration to execute contracts to facilitate these employee benefits. Second.

It's been moved and seconded. Questions or comments? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. Thank you. Thank You. All right, so we are on our second reading for policy BHA which is board training and development.

I move that the Board of Education approve policy BHA board training and development for a second reading and approval. Second.

So moved and seconded. Questions? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? And we are now on our first reading of policy GCBDA. All

right, good evening. So I have, we're going to put policy GCBDA and GDBDA together. Essentially they're the same policy. One is for professional staff and the other is for support staff. But other than that it's the same purpose. So the policy being reviewed is GCBDA, Professional Staff Short-Term Leave, and GDBDA, Support Staff Leave. MSBA has added leave for victims of domestic violence or sexual violence as required by House Bill 432. This leave is being informally referred to as Victims Economic Safety and Security Act, also known as BESA. Employees who are victims of domestic or sexual violence may use this unpaid leave for court appearances, counseling, medical attention, and other services related to being a victim of domestic or sexual violence. Employees may also use this leave if they have a family member or someone in their household that's been a victim of domestic of sexual violence. So just for your context, we did implement this at the beginning of the school year as part of the requirements all of our staff received so everyone has, this has already been in place so it's just now in the policy to match what our practice has been. Do you have any questions regarding these two policies?

I just have a question. Maybe it's more one for our board counselors here. Was this never part of, like, federal FMLA or any type of other – this wasn't covered there? I guess I was just surprised you're reading this that it wasn't already covered by other – Family Medical Leave Act or other, you know, areas.

It may have been, but this is state law, new state law that was passed, and so our policies – whenever a state has a new law that impacts education, then we have to make sure to update the policies. So that's kind of where we are with this. But it's a good law. Yeah, I mean, I just... Unlike some of them that are passed.

It seems controversial, but also I can see how someone could be... I could have seen that. Yeah. Not really with the program here on some of this stuff. A narrow interpretation of whatever the other thing says. I

just, yeah. I'm all for it. I just was surprised that it's, you

know.

Yeah. And what about, Tony, policy IICC?

Sure. Next policy is policy IICC. ICC with school volunteers. MSBA has revised this policy to mandate that screened volunteers undergo a criminal background check by the school district before they are left alone with the student. The screened volunteer is defined as any person who assists a school by providing uncompensated service and who may be periodically left alone with students. Screened volunteers can access student education records only when it's necessary to assist the district and while supervised by staff members. A volunteer who is not screened cannot be left alone with the student or have access to student records. MSBA assumes that a volunteer who is not screening means the volunteer has not undergone a background check. And essentially we talk about the background check to this level, to be a screened volunteer, it's the same exact one that you have to go to to be an employee which requires fingerprinting. So pretty much most things that we traditionally think of as a volunteer would fall under this category. So if you're going on a field trip, you have the potential to be left alone with a student or a group of students, right? So that would be the full-on background check. If you're volunteering regularly in your child's classroom, that would fall under this. If you're going in for your student's start of the week or you're doing something to present on career day, that would be different. So there's different parameters, but for the most part it is a screened volunteer. We already have this in place. We did this a couple years ago with some other policy updates. We're just getting everything caught up. We've had this in place in practice. We've had it in place for practice for I believe at least three years. It's also been a little unusual with COVID because we kind of stopped all the volunteer.

Any

questions about this policy?

I have one. Sure. Is there also like training that goes hand in hand with the background check and does that come into the policy as well?

Sure, so we have our own procedures for that and then what they do is they sign off on some of the mandated training that we are required to have. Yeah.

All right. Nobody has any further questions, and we will move to move on to our consent items.

I move that the Board of Education approve the Consent Agenda 9.02 through 9.07. Second. We move to second

it. Questions? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. And now we are on to our financial report.

I move that the Board of Education approve September 2022 disbursements in the sum of $4,090,455.27. Second. And moved and seconded. Any questions?

All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? So that's approved. And now we are on to board communications. I think there was a, Kim already mentioned the finance advisory committee. Yeah, Jason, you want to update the other stuff we talked about or

John? Go for it. I will say John put together a really nice meeting. It was very well attended, and we had a really good discussion. The meeting was slated to go for an hour. I think we actually went for an hour and a half, and the time flew by. The community members were very appreciative of the topics that we discussed, and John can make you an update on the things we discussed. And I think we're actually going to be bringing something to the board soon upon the advice of that committee.

We talked about enrollment trends, revenue trends, fund balance trends. We ended up talking about fund balance policy and they made a recommendation that we will bring to the board once MSBA has worked through the document with us.

Those are good topics for that committee.

I will add that I think three of the community members that are on the board have been on this committee for like five or six years it sounds like. A long time, I think

even longer than that.

Yeah, so it was really nice to have that institutional memory that none of us had.

None of us combined. Right, right. Yeah. Great. So, yeah, it was a very productive meeting, and we're looking forward to seeing them again in January. They said it was nice to be asked to be met with without us needing something, which is maybe a good – Life lesson. Life lesson or takeaway is that regular engagement with community members before we need them for something. And listen, this community I believe is always going to show up when we need them for some thing. But they did appreciate that we were there not asking for hey, we think we have another bond issue around or hey, we think might need this or hey, we might need your influence here. It was really, hey, you know, we'd like to have some discussions about some macro terms that we're seeing. Get your input. Get your expertise. Figure out if you've talked about this in the past. You know, it was a really great discussion. Truly worth thinking partners. We

used to get a lot of updates about the fund balance. I don't know. Haven't heard much about it in a while, I don't think. You will soon. And then secondly, I guess what I used to always struggle with and I used to go back and forth was just like what was the rhyme and reason how we actually come up with the fund balance. I never understood it.

We will have it. I mean, I kind of

understood it, but it wasn't my definitive. It should be...

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so we had exactly that discussion. We talked about what would be a reasonable type of fund balance to set if we were going to try to set one as a board and implement it as policy, which is actually... government accounting standards recommendation for best practices. We don't currently have one, so that's what, as soon as we have the language in place, we'd like to bring to everybody here for consideration, and the committee supported that too. But as part of that, I can commit to you, Jason, and to everybody else here who's interested in that topic because it's so exhilarating. that John is an excellent teacher and will do the best as his teaching aids on the side, Jason and I, to help to try to bring the board to an understanding of what the fund balance is, how it's calculated, why it's important, and why we should all understand it so we can be able to communicate it.

Because when we did Prop E, the fund balance is often utilized.

It was. I mean, it was. And

I was getting beat up a little bit. I was just like, I don't understand how we utilize it and there's no way to... You know what I'm saying? It'd be great to understand that and rehash Prop E. I'm joking. That's a joke.

But educating the community, too, about school finances and where it's going to go is in more transparency. The more we can make it more accessible, the easier it is when you're actually asking them for something, but also just people feeling more

empowered. Well, and the goal is, and again, I don't want to steal the plot from when we come back to you and have a more robust discussion about this, but the goal is for us all to be educated, but also to have a plan in place so that it's not an emergency the next time And it's part of educating the community, because it's very unlikely. I wouldn't say it's impossible if we have inflation the way it is for the next five years in a row. But it's very unlikely that we will need to go out to the community any time soon with another request for funds. But we want to have the procedures in place so that whoever is sitting in these seats five years from now, 10 years from now, 15 years ago, whenever it is that next time occurs, that there's something that triggers that. So that it's not the same like type of, I mean, I'll just speak for myself. It's not the same type of fire drill that we experienced the last time we went out for property where it was like, you know, we got to have this and we got to have it now. And then just like you said, we took a lot of flack for it because we didn't have time to get the community on board. And if we start having a regular discussion about it, it starts being part of, you know, two years, that it'll just become hopefully part of maybe not everyday nomenclature because we have such enthralling turnout in terms of people who watch these meetings or come to these meetings before or after. But we'll have more people that know about it. We'll have at least the seven of us plus the seven additional people that are in this room all the time that know about it, plus the next seven of us that are on the board. you know, five years from now that know about it. And you just start to build a critical mass so that the next time it's not such a knife fight in a film

booth. Can

I ask you this question?

Strategy-wise, I know we want to do Isaac Field and the other projects, but I know that costs are high, you know, and interest rates are high. But it's going to come down, so strategically... when it comes to, I'm just thinking about in my own business, I have to think strategy-wise. Is it a good time to do construction? Is it a good to buy? But I know first quarter of 23, second quarter for sure, they'll ease rates, prices will come down on things. Will that reflect in our strategy to build in 23? Or will we be paying these high prices if we commit to something, let's just say, by December right now for this project? I just want to make sure we're not spending money. Would it be wise to hold off for a year? I know we want it done, but is it wise to do it now? This is just me thinking from a critical business standpoint.

My crystal ball is as cloudy as yours. I mean, I don't know how to predict the future. So my anticipation is that generally over time, as time goes by, prices rise. So while there may be some chance that they decline in 23 or 24, I can't guarantee that. And so I don't really even try to factor that into my thinking about scheduling something like that. Got you. It's hard for me to time the market.

But we would have, I mean, we're just deciding to get information at this point. We would have another decision point where we would include things like that. And I'm not trying to derail this

moment. Yeah, no, no, no. It's a really good thought. And

Jason, what I would say is after we get an idea of what the cost is, then we can figure out who we want to do it. And as you know, once you've there's different approaches to that. You can fix, you can have some variable costs and then some fixed costs. So when it comes time to try and decide what we're comfortable fixing and what we're comfortable leaving variable, we can have that decision at that inflection point. But yeah, I mean, I'm same as you and John. First of all, it's cloudy, but for whatever we can do to try to be intentional about what we should fix and what we should leave variable, I think we can do once we know what the size of the nut is. I

appreciate it. So that's good. The only thing that dialogue at the table. Yeah. Look, I don't want to get in weeds. I'm not a treasurer. And I am not. But you

were, so you know what you're talking about.

Right, that's why. And also, I don't want to do your job. I just want to make, I do want to have that dialogue. Yeah, we will. Because that's just, you know.

Yeah, we well.

Cool,

awesome. Excellent, move on.

So, great. What else? Anything else anybody wants to talk about tonight?

I would just quickly, I did so privately, but I just wanted to publicly thank Dr. Poole and Dr. Kaczewski for going to the JSU, the Jewish Student Union meeting last night. This club meets at 7 p.m. at a Starbucks. It's not like... you know, necessarily easy. It was an effort for Dr. Poole and Dr. Kaczewski to go out of their way to meet with these kids. And I know that they all felt really good to be heard just to discuss like anti-Semitism, rising anti-Semitism and to what Carter's brought up before, how we handle the Jewish holidays and what they liked that some teachers did or didn't do. So I just want to publicly thank them for going out of the way at night on an evening to meet with this club of kids and just listen to their teachers. But maybe it's

easier also to meet at a Starbucks at night But I mean, back to what Carter talked about, you know, sometimes it's easier to talk to work colleagues about stuff outside of work. For the students, for sure. I

mean, for Dr. Poole and Dr. Kaczewski to come out at night and go meet them is awesome. I

would like to attend some of that next call. No, actually, I don't mean to go off on a rail here. I should have said this earlier, but sometimes it's just good to listen and not always talk. But I just want to say this, I think it would be kind of cool if students in JSU, right, if they invited other students, like their friends who are

not. There actually were students who were not Jewish there. That's

cool, that's cool. And then like, same thing with the clubs that are for African American students. Like if they invite a friend to come and just like sit and just listen. Exactly. That's a great conversation. Yeah, it's a great way for them to have a perspective on what's happening in these kids' worlds. I agree. My son happened to be African American. He was together with me. Surprising. He's about a bunch of different kids, and I'm not sure if they discuss these types of things all the time. Yeah, so it'd be kind of cool if, like, you know, it wasn't the same kids all the time that he would like. Some other

kids. Well, like, I know, for example... My son had gone with his friend to the FCA, Fellowship of Christian Athletes meeting earlier in the day yesterday. So that friend went with him to the JSU meeting last night. So just to your point, exactly, like hearing from different kids, and I know there's a lot of non-Jewish kids actually that regularly attend the JSU meetings for whatever reason, but I think it's great. That's cool. That's a good point. That is a good point. All right. Shall we adjourn? Yes. Bye. Thank you.