May 12, 2026 — Meeting Transcript

Oh, yeah, yeah. Perfect. Okay. You want me to be in charge of this? Yes, yeah. All right. Well, good evening. My name is Cole Craig, and I was part of the City Council Committee. Hi. Yeah, you can go ahead and click it. Awesome. I'm a senior, and next year I will be studying political science at Grinnell College and competing in track and field and cross-country.

My name is Asher Stitzel. I'm a junior, and I also worked with this group, Observing the City Council. And next year I'm going to continue to work with the mock trial team at Clayton High School and continue to think through democratic processes and how it affects the Clayton community.

Hello, my name is Luke Jeans, and next year I will be continuing involvement in the community, including writing in my school's newspaper, which helps write about important issues in the community.

Hello, my name Jack Letman. I'm a junior at Clayton High School. Next year I'm doing a revenue and growth internship at the Gatesworth, so I'm working on sales and marketing strategy.

So I'm sure many of you are familiar with the group that we, the committee that we followed, which is the city council, which was formerly known as the board of aldermen changed over the course of this year to be the city council. It acts as the legislative body for Clayton, and it kind of governs the city ordinances and kind of talks about public policy and allows the space for public discussion about that policy and allows for people to really share their opinions and help connect with government in that way. And the members include the mayor and the board or the city council. The mayor is elected at large for a three-year term, and there's six council members which are also elected for a three- year term, but they're elected on a staggered basis from each of the city's three wards, which I'm sure all of you know much about.

Yeah, so our impressions over the year. I was really taken aback when each person like on each issue, each council member will talk about have their say on each issue. And I thought that each council members really prepared and had something really insightful to say and was each time they spoke with something different and something new to hear. And I thought

And the thing that really left the most of an impression on me throughout the year of observing the city council is really how close the government is, the city council is to the people of Clayton. Because you think about the Senate or the House of Representatives or even like state governments, you don't feel as closely connected with them and that you can really change that public policy. But when I went to Board of Aldermen or city council meetings, what I really saw was that people of Clayton were coming and sharing their opinions on public policy. And it really felt like you had the ability to change that public policy and be able to go in and have open discussions and share your opinions, which I think led to real change. And it was really cool being able to see people directly interact with the government as opposed to kind of lobby to legislatures as they do in state or national governments.

My impression is that it feels like a group of friends working together because there's been, like, many late nights that I've been here. And after everything's done, you guys always, like, laugh and talk and stuff like that. And it feels less political because I see, like, all you guys around Clinton. Like, I saw Mr. David Gipson at the Creperie the other day. And then Mayor McAndrew was at my prom pre-pictures because I'm friends with their son. And it's kind of great that, like, the people who are making decisions are just, like, they have kids that go to Clayton. And you, like, see them here, like, in Clayton every single day. And then I like how each person's background is different. Like, I guess Mr. O'Keefe, like, wait, maybe it was somebody who's not here. I don't know. But they always brought up, like, the finance part of things. So it's, like, everyone kind of, like, specialized in something due to, like, their backgrounds in the past. So, yeah. Thank you, guys.

My impression is that it feels like a group of friends working together because there's been, like, many late nights that I've been here. And after everything's done, you guys always, like, laugh and talk and stuff like that. And it feels less political because I see, like, all you guys around Clinton. Like, I saw Mr. Gibson at the Creperie the other day. And then Mayor McAndrew was at my prom pre-pictures because I'm friends with their son. And it's kind of great that, like, the people who are making decisions are just, like, they have kids that go to Clayton. And you, like, see them here, like, in Clayton every single day. And then I like how each person's background is different. Like, I guess Mr. O'Keefe, like, wait, maybe it was somebody who's not here. I don't know. But they always brought up, like, the finance part of things. So it's, like, everyone kind of, like, specialized in something due to, like, their backgrounds in the past. So, yeah. Thank you, guys.

Throughout my time observing meetings, I was very impressed by all the questions that every member asked. It seemed like nobody, an issue wasn't done being talked about until every person asked a question about it and made sure that every issue was as secure as possible before actually creating the policy that went into Clayton. So I appreciated the extra work and questions, even if it meant extra work for the city council members.

Yeah, our main recommendation is overall, I think we should try and make public participation easier. First of all, the speaker notes, it was new this year. It became required for each speaker to fill out a little slip of paper um in order to speak which i think is a good idea and i know it makes it easier for the city clerk to do her filings um but i think it could also just work as if they come up they can just like say their name and where they're from and then it's just uh gets rid of an unnecessary barrier in my opinion and then second of all this the new timer was implemented and i think that's a really good idea for the meetings that are going to be controversial and very popular But I also think that on some occasions on non-popular meetings that they don't need to feel rushed or need a timer clicking in front of them. And then I think most importantly, we should increase participation in the community through advertisements and flyers. I often see maybe one or two people here each meeting, which I think is good, but I think we could get that increased if we kind of got the word out. I think everybody knows that they can come to these meetings and speak, but nobody really knows how or like really what to do. So I think if we posted things on, I don't know, Instagram or Nextdoor, especially Nextdoor, which I think would be a popular, the right demographic we posted on Nextdoor about this, would spread the word and increase participation, I think, at these meetings, which could be really important.

So we just wanted to say thank you to first Mrs. Avelese and Ms. Kearley for their help throughout the year and also Mayor McAndrew for being at every meeting and helping us. and helping guide us throughout the year, being able to be able to connect with the community and connect with the government through this way. And I just wanted to thank each and every committee and especially the city council that we observed throughout the year. So thank you guys.

Hi, my name is Carly Selig, and I am a senior this year at Clayton High School. Next year, I am attending the University of Wisconsin-Madison to study political science, and I'm going into pre-law.

Hi, my name is Harper Sweeney and I'm a junior at Clayton High School and Carly and I both followed the city council throughout the 2025 to 2026 school year.

One thing that I thought was really interesting about the city council, which was mentioned before in the previous presentation, is learning about all the different perspectives that you all bring to the council. I really noticed this a lot whenever we talked about the tornado that happened last year, just like learning about how much it affected our community. And I really love to learn about all the steps we took to recover and all the steps we still need to take.

I was really interested with how the council handles thoughts and opinions from Clayton citizens. Specifically, I remember one time this woman came in with concerns over bus benches and she had concerns about that. And I was really impressed with the structure and order and how the council was able to address her concerns and make her feel comfortable and heard.

um one room for improvement which was um implemented into this year was again the speaker note cards i thought that that would make the like city council meetings more efficient for everyone involved like it would definitely help um citizen involvement into city council meetings and it would make um the meetings more efficient for

Yeah. And along with that, the speaker timer also just speeds things up. So meetings don't have to go as late for not only you guys, but people who want to share what they have to say. And I think that because of the new implements like the council, like it will only get better from here. And then we want to thank all of you guys and Mrs. Abelies and Ms. Kearley for this opportunity, and we both feel like we've won. Yes, we

really enjoyed it. Thank you all so much.

Hi. We're the Sustainability Advisory Board group and you can click,

yeah. So my name is Amelia Lewis. I'm a senior this year at the high school and my plans for next year is attending Brown University to study international and public affairs and environmental sciences and studies.

Hi, my name is Tierney Sweeney. I'm also a senior at the high school and my plan for next year is to attend Mizzou to study business.

Hi, my name's Lucinda Lloyd. I'm a junior and next year I'll still be at Clayton High School.

My name is Jaron. I'm a Junior and next year I will also still be at Claydon High School.

So what we did with our time at MIAC is we worked with the Sustainability Advisory Board to plan World Migratory Bird Day on May 9th.

So this event took place last Saturday, or this most recent Saturday. We ended up having about 50 people attend. This was the flyer we had spread around. If you're a member, a family member of a student at one of the elementary schools or you attend the Clayton Center, it was posted there or probably in your email.

Yeah, so we basically had this whole like tent like near the parking lot. And we had a lot of these bird experts take everyone on a bird walk. I went for like about 30 minutes. It was really fun. And I got to see a lot of little kids and their parents really enjoy watching birds. And these bird experts really know their stuff.

Yeah. Unfortunately, I was not able to be there on Saturday because I had my wisdom teeth out on Friday. But from what we had planned throughout the entire year was very well thought out. I thought just because almost every meeting I know we would talk about our plan for May 9th and then eventually the day came. And I know that everyone who was able to be there did such a great job hosting these like craft stands. And like Jeremy was saying, the walks were all very great.

Yeah, and we also wanted to spread the word. We had all these Explore magazines from Missouri Bird Conservatory, Audubon Society. And the reason we did all this stuff to spread all this information host this day is so we could help Clayton be designated as a bird city, much like Tree City. And Clayton's sort of a pilot for this, but this was something we took on from Ms. Grossman for the Sustainability Advisory Committee project. project because this felt like something that would be a great group project for all of us. And it was a lot of fun to participate in planning.

So with one of the requirements to become a Bird City is to have an educational event around World Migratory Bird Day, which is why we had the walk on National World Migratory Birthday. And by having this day, we spread awareness, especially to the little kids who are going to be up and coming members of Clayton. And it's very important that the community knows about Clayton's involvement with Bird City, but also Tree City and Dark Skies, because I found that many people didn't realize until they heard about an event such as this.

so i kind of touched about this earlier but we did get experts from missouri river bird observatory to lead these really awesome walks again they're really good and oh yeah we had a lot of arts and crafts we had this like one like 3d looking paper bird the kids love that one They love coloring. And we also had, like, Explore magazines and Missouri Conservation magazines that were free. They could take it. And then we also added, like, had, like, a little envelope that they could sign up for it. If they're a Missouri resident, they just get them for free. So that's how it went.

Oh, yeah. And so we want to thank you all. What I took away mostly was just like how well structured everything in the committee was. I was so engaged in every single meeting because the way we talked about things, the agenda for the day was always so planned out ahead of time that I felt like I knew what I was talking about or listening to in the next meeting. at a time because we'd already talked about everything and it felt like I was informed and it was fun to listen to everything. It flowed so nice.

I think my biggest takeaway is similar to Lucinda's, but this, I guess, would also be my suggestion, is that there's so much going on in Clayton about sustainability specifically that I think is unique to our city. And that doesn't take place other places that I was unaware about. And things like Green Dining Alliance and turning off the tall building lights during May, which is one of the key migratory bird months. is something that if the company is working and operating out of Clayton, no community members are caring about. They'll be more inclined to participate or follow along. So I think that just getting the word out person to person here and letting everybody know what Clayton does and telling the businesses that we care about it is very important.

So my biggest takeaway from the sustainability committee is, again, Lucinda said like how organized they are because they still have like plans for last year's tornado damage. And it's been a long time. So I was really surprised that they were able to keep everything organized. And they're very committed because these projects are super long. And I thought that was really cool.

My biggest takeaway from each of the meetings were just how interesting they all were and they were all, although we covered a lot of similar topics from meeting to meeting, I felt that it was really great to hear so many different perspectives just because I feel like at most of the meetings there were new people each time giving different presentations on totally different things, whether that be like trees that could be planted or migratory birds. I felt like it was really amazing to learn so many different things that I don't think I would have ever learned if it hadn't been for this.

So

my recommendation would be more towards just, I guess, topics to look into. Especially, I guess, today, I would look into more like data center energy use and how that'll be like a factor in the future for Clayton. Clayton wouldn't be a location for a data center, but nearby cities, the St. Louis County, like how that'll affect energy and water for the city and how to sustain in that data center era.

Okay.

And really quickly, I do want to thank Ms. Abley's and Ms. Kearley for just giving us this wonderful opportunity and Ms. Grossman because she really helped us a lot. She's a lot of the

Clayton became a bird city. Okay.

So we reached

goals.

Hello, I'm Lydia Lee and I'm currently a junior at Clayton High School.

I'm Sharla Whitney and I'm also a junior at Claytown High School and we followed the Clayton Parks and Recreation Committee. Okay, one of the main projects that the parks and recreation committee followed was the livable communities project which if you're not familiar the area off of Brentwood which is currently a temporary pickleball core area is going to become a more. usable area and we're going to have area where you can have concerts and there's going to be a lawn space, as well as new and improved pickleball court.

So one of my main impressions was first about I was surprised about the emphasis on sustainability and technology in a recreational project. So not only do the parks, are they like provided for fun and entertainment for the community, but also to be in a sustainable way that to make sure that the earth wasn't being negatively impacted and all the extreme planning with the expensive technology that was used. So specifically the green infrastructure, the rain gardens and the native landscaping, and then more with the technology was the intentional lighting fixtures. And then secondly, I was glad to hear the goal of appealing to all age groups through the Livable Communities Project. There was some concerns of not targeting all age demographics in Clayton with the Parks and Rec community. So I think the Livable Community Project will do a great job of kind of expanding, providing entertainment for all age groups. So the ice rinks, of course, will provide entertainment for kids in the families and teenagers, while the pickleball courts can target also a wide range of ages, including also the older generations. And then the concert venue can also appeal to a large demographic of people along with the food trucks. And then secondly, we kind of covered the Shaw Park pool. So I was most shocked to hear that the costs actually outweigh the revenue for Shaw Park pool. There's a lot of costs that include maintenance issues and replacements of landlines, diving boards, vacuums, and the lounges. And we learned that the early season weather is a big predictor of what the sales will look like for that year. So last year, of course, the tornado effect affected the sales of the season passes along with colder weather. weather during the beginning of summer so that kind of made the sales drop a lot for the entire season and then specifically they haven't profited in the past three years so last year the revenue was about $330,000 but the costs were about $550,000 meaning that the net profit was about $200,000 thousand and I just thought this was really surprising because I always remember going to Shaw Park Pool like as a kid like with Charlotte too and it always seemed pretty busy there and when I think of like Clayton Parks like I think of Shaw Park Pool and so I was kind of surprised to hear that they actually make a negative profit to exist so yeah.

So some recommendations we have for the Parks and Rec Committee are mainly centered around the Livable Community Project and making sure this space is being used all year round. Having community-focused events and different activities that will bring residents together. So we were thinking having monthly parties for the community where Different residents can get to know each other and as well as wellness events or yoga. I know myself, I really enjoy being active and my family and I like to go to yoga classes together. So just different events that will appeal. And then also small markets, sort of like a farmer's market maybe. with big goods or produce, and then also having activities for younger kids who are probably going along to those with their families. And then also we were thinking being able to rent or reserve the pickleball courts could be very beneficial to keeping a schedule and just having groups all be able to use it because sometimes me and my friends will go up there and there'll be one big group who's taking up all the courts so making sure there's equitable playing time for everyone and then we'd like to thank mrs abelies mrs kearley and mayor mcandrew for all this

yes and then of course the parks and rec committee and all of you for being here today so thank you thank you thank you

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Hi, my name is Claire Linenbringer. I'm a junior this year and I was the only MIAC student following the Clayton Community Foundation this year. I was really interested in CCF because I think it's such a unique aspect of Clayton government to have a nonprofit branch helping raise money for city projects. And I had a lot of really great impressions of CCF. One thing that I noticed was that everybody comes to CCF with lots of ideas and really meticulous plans about how to do things. I was lucky enough to sit in a meeting where we discussed a detailed financial plan, which I thought was really excellent and definitely necessary for the CCF to have. I also was there for discussions about wording for different fundraising materials, which I think is equally important because if you're asking for money, it's good to know what you're going to say. I think I also noticed that everybody who shows up to CCF is really committed to what they do. And it can be difficult work asking for money, but everybody knows that it's for a really good cause. So I thought that was really good as well. This year I attended quarterly board meetings for the CCF. I attended meetings of the Wydown subcommittee, which was focused on raising money for Wydown restoration in the area where the tornado hit especially. And I also attended some meetings for the engagement committee and some city council meetings in between just to catch up on what's going on in the Clayton City government. And at one meeting, I was lucky I got to present a social media engagement plan for the CCF because one of the biggest challenges that they face is getting the word about who they are and what they do. It can be kind of confusing for a lot of people because the CCF is kind of like semi-governmental and it's associated with the city government but also associated with fundraising just from the community. One recommendation that I have for the CCF going forward is that I think once fundraising really kicks off in earnest for a lot of the different projects that CCF has been planning, like for the Y-down restoration and planting a lot more trees there and also installing some art there, I think it would be really useful to use the school district as a way to reach families. Something that I learned from actually canvassing for Prop O this spring was that If voting is an indicator of involvement, the most engaged people are actually the people who don't have students currently in the Clayton School District. So I think going through the school district would be a really good way to reach people who might not already know or be engaged a lot with CCF. Yeah, so I think, like I said before, a lot of people still aren't really aware of the different projects that CCF is taking on. And so I think distribution of materials or community outreach to schools could really boost recognition and engagement in a group that might not be as knowledgeable about CCF. I think outreach and material distributions could look like a lot of things, including Information about projects in newsletters to parents, which could be even like hyper local or specific to the neighborhoods that elementary schools are in. So information in, say, a newsletter to captain parents could include more about why down restoration efforts, which impact the community right around there. And Merrimack might get more information about maybe the Hanley House, which is closer to their area. Of course, this information would be broader for middle school and high school parents because those schools service the entire community. I think outreach and material distribution through the school district could also look like CCF volunteers potentially attending PTO meetings and maybe giving a short presentation about different projects that might be going on in the community at that time and how parents might be able to give or get involved. And some of these projects, for anybody who doesn't know, the CCF is working on Wydown Restoration. So planting more trees where the tornado really hit that section of Wydown near Wydown Middle School and also close to Skinker. And also citywide tree plantings to help restore some of the growth that was lost from the tornado last year. And the ongoing project of Hanley House Restorations. There's just so much to do there. um so yeah i had a really good time observing ccf this year i have a lot of ideas and thank you so much the city council and mayor mckendrick and mrs abelies and this purely for this opportunity

Hi, I'm Danielle Angelides, and I'm currently a junior at Clayton High School. And over the past year, I've followed the plan committee and architectural review. And I chose to follow this committee in particular because over the past year and a half, I've developed an interest for architecture, but I really didn't know anything about it. Going into the plan committee, I just thought that an architect, they buy a piece of land they design a structure and then they just find some way to execute it. And I just really discovered that it's way more than that. And so something that really surprised me, although everything surprised me since I didn't know anything, But something that really surprised me was just how much consideration was put into maintaining Clayton's appearance. Because as you all know, since you live here, it's really beautiful. And I didn't realize that the amount of detail and thought that went into preserving the beauty. And so at these meetings, the plan committee sits where you guys are sitting right now. And then individuals, mainly architects, but sometimes like a mom or a dad. they come forward and they give ideas about either changing the front of a structure of their house or painting it white instead of black, or even just elevating a window slightly upwards. And so they would come stand where I am and they would just present these ideas and just every member of the committee, they would have something to say and they'd either give a recommendation and just, they really put a lot of focus into making sure everything looked neat and They even looked at the buildings next to the structures that they were developing to make sure that everything matched. For instance, painting white on brick would work better than painting wood in some places and so that really made a difference. Then also it was surprising was that they really focused on the long-term feel instead of an individual's preference because they just really focused on the whole community and each subsection instead of just what one person wanted. And then a recommendation I have for the future is, like I said before, the people who mainly come with ideas are architects. But sometimes they are just an individual. And when it's their first time sharing, they don't really know what to say or what materials even to use. For instance, in the fall one time we had this woman come and it was a really long 30 minutes to say the least. She had a bunch of questions and just you could tell she was getting really frustrated. And I think to avoid some of her frustrations is to set clear expectations of each individual subsection possibly in Clayton and just the expectations, materials, colors, and maybe even just some examples on what an idea should look like. And so I just want to thank you all for your time. Thank you, Mrs. Abelies and Ms. Keerly. Thank you, Mayor McAndrew. And really thank you, the Plan Committee and Architectural Review Board, because I really learned a lot through my experience. Thank you, Danielle.

Good evening, City Council. My name is Sam Abeles and I'm a junior. Next year I plan on going to this really cool small public school called CHS.

My name is Nicholas Perrin. I go to Clayton High School and I do not plan to skip a 12th grade. I'm a junior,

uh i i'm gabe talski um i'm also a junior and i'm just going to clayton

we're here to talk about our experiences in the architectural review board and plan commission over the course of this last year we've seen the development and approval of many different applications emphasis on many From a new building to being constructed, redrawing an existing property line, store sign, paint job, proof of leases for restaurants and businesses, we saw firsthand the immense effort that every single member and participant coming to the meetings put into every single proposal. Over that time, we gained a deeper understanding and appreciation for all the work that goes into the zoning and development of Clayton. We've learned a lot of different new things that plenty of these things I've genuinely never heard of before this from CUPs which are conditional use permits, PUDs planned unit developments site plans, mylar restrictions and plenty of other construction codes that are important in each specific proposal. Not to mention the whole process of how serving on a local government committee works which I've never seen any of that before so it was interesting to learn about. Our time in the committee gave us a completely new lens into the government side that comes when someone opens a new business. For instance, we saw how business owners, when they're bringing forth their plans for the business at these meetings, they're trying to balance not only what they want to make their business as best as it can be, how to abide by all of the laws and also how to make sure that all of these different sustainability practices are implemented to make sure that Clayton is being built for the better of everyone. In one of many examples, the design for Meyers Bar and Lounge which is coming in really soon, the owner presented to the board how they're gonna regulate sound pollution for the restaurant. It was interesting to see how talking in one committee spills over into another one and how they all relate and connect to each other. That was just one specific example but there are plenty of other times when interesting committee meetings where there's a lot of different ideas and plans coming together to make everything work. Next, we also noticed how the way committee members worked and collaborated with each other.

As Sam was saying, initially we were very surprised how much effort and care members on the board have in their work. Board members spend numerous hours reviewing the site in person before even discussing the plans in the meetings. Certain proposals could lead to members looking at site plans from numerous angles and perspectives to understand in completion the proposal brought forth. In addition, behind the scenes, staff is constantly working to bring the necessary information to the board so the board can make an informed decision about the plan presented. One thing we really loved about the board was how much cooperation there is between members. I remember in one board meeting I went to, everyone was talking amongst each other. People tried including everyone possible, asking the audience, the other members, before going to the final vote of aye. So I don't know how you distinguish between ayes and nays in the final say. Everyone's speaking at the same time. But anyway, the board made up of designers and architects from various backgrounds are constantly discussing the plan in order to better it. Having different backgrounds allows for various members on the board to take more lead on the discussion depending on what the proposal is. Thus, we have been very moved that we've been able to see so much flexibility and ingenuity in the process of discussing plans to better Clayton. Along with all these positive moments we have seen and felt, we have also developed two main recommendations we hope the council will think about.

Okay. So For our recommendations, one of them is a note and one of them is more like a fear. Our main note, sort of what Danielle was saying earlier, is frustration. We've seen a lot of architects come in. There's some, obviously, who are more experienced, who have been before boards again and again and again, specifically for Myler's Lounge. The owner knew a lot about what they're saying. In addition to, I think, what you're talking about tonight, Gigi's Cafe. The architect coming and the owner come for was very cooperative and flexible with sort of the board's mentions. However, they're more often than not a lot of the architects coming in like you could see we're obviously getting flustered and obviously we're not expecting some comments proposed by the board. Specifically, the main thing is like sustainability comments or like exchanging vinyl for another substance. And I sort of felt these architects didn't have the awareness initially coming in, like what the board was really expecting. And I was really, like, hopeful that we could present architects with more of a clear uh vision of what we were looking for um before coming to the board um that's just a note uh that i had but the the biggest ones was a fear i noticed uh personally had um when uh mr brendan uh asked staff uh do we have any laws in place to prevent uh specific individuals from coming in and buying up numerous plots um this was in reference i think a couple months ago to um just i think north of the library where a property owner had bought two plots adjacent and was building property connecting the two. There were numerous, about two plots next to it. And the fear was an individual coming in and buying these plots and we would decrease property value, well, growth potential. And so that's sort of the fear that Clayton is such a small community already that if we're removing individual plots or an opportunity for families to come in and really experience what Clayton has to offer, then it's kind of a negative if someone comes in and does that. And so we really have nothing we can possibly do about that. I don't know if there's any legal solutions to that problem. I don't think there is, but... That's just a fear I had. But in total, we feel very thankful for being able to come up here to the architecture board. And we thank the architecture board for allowing us to come speak. In addition, of course, to Ms. Abley, Ms. Kirlian, Mayor McAndrew for guiding us through our time at MIAC. So thank you again for allowing us to speak and hope you have a great evening.

Okay. Hello, my name is Martin Sabag, and we're going to be presenting what we learned this year about parks and recreation. I'm a junior at Clayton High School, and so next year I'm going to be starting to apply for colleges.

My name is Augustio Dewan. I'm also a junior in Clayton High School. So next year as a senior, there's a high possibility I might come back to MIAC just to check out some other committees as well.

My name is and I am a junior at Clayton High School.

And my name is Matthew Nguyen. I'm also a junior here at Clayton High school, and I continue to plan to be a student at Clayton High for next year. This is just a picture of all of us.

So at the beginning of the year when we were asked what committee we wanted to follow, We all three of us are part of the tennis team and he just runs. So we are all very involved in the like we used the parks and the recreation centers a lot. So it kind of makes sense. And it was interesting to follow the committee this year.

For how we interpreted our Committee of Parks and Recreation, it came down to three main goals. One, how the committee plans community activities. Two, promote public interest in parks and wellness programs. And three, work in local agencies to support the quality of life. Some topics that we would like to go over today involve art, the preservation of the Hanley House, events and sports. First, let's talk about arts as seen on the screen. First one that I would like to discuss is The Three Shepherds. We discussed this at our very first meeting with the Parks and Recreation Committee, and they are three, four feet tall sculptures by the sculptor Arpad Somogyi of Hungary, and they were transported here to Clayton, and they can be found at Anderson Park. Additionally, there's the enhancements to the memorial bench pad in Shaw Park to honor Robert H. Chapman, which is the late chairman of the board of Barry Wellmiller. And on the left hand, you can see it right there. Okay, now let's talk about the preservation of the Hanley House. As previously stated, the Hanley House was heavily affected by the tornado last year and our committee here with the Parks and Recreation have been putting in a lot of work and money to help preserve it and bring it back to what it was. Some facts about the Hanley House was it was built in 1855, which makes it the oldest structure here in the city of Clayton. And it's listed on the National Register of Historic Places. Now some events that we would like to talk about is one, the St. Louis Art Fair where talented artists from all over the country get to showcase their work for our city. This is a great place because this is one of the biggest events here at Clayton and a lot of things go down here such as performances and these talented artists also get to sell their work to our place and honestly makes Clayton look like a really great city. The next one I would like to talk about is the Musical Nights at Oak Knoll Park. This one really hits home with me because these events with the musical festivals are ones that my family attends, and it's really amazing how the Parks and Rec Committee just plans everything and gathers all these incredible and talented artists to perform for our local park. Overall, not only did the Parks and Rec Committee allow me to enjoy these events, but also gave me the opportunity to witness the greatness of what goes down behind the scenes. Now I'll let my colleague Somanu here talk about sports.

As a member of the high school tennis team, it was really cool seeing the different improvements that were being made to the tennis courts and also the pickleball courts. Obviously, there's big plans to renovate the pickleball courts and may have better quality to it, which could bring maybe some more competitive pickleball to Clayton. I also thought what was cool is that the parks and rec committee really cared about not just the people that go there, but also the animals. And so it was cool seeing how the tennis courts are getting new lights that are more bird friendly. And for, it was also interesting seeing the aquatic center when I was young, I used to go there to swim in the summer. So I liked how they were adding improvements to the facilities such as maybe new diving boards or dive tank. And what I thought was cool that I got to see for all the facilities was the end of season reports. Since usually as a citizen, you never really get to see the behind the scenes with the money. So it was cool seeing the revenue and also the expenses. And finally, when I was young, I used to play in the sports leagues. So it was cool seeing how the committee set up the sports leagues and also ran them. And I also liked how any concerns any of the parents had, they made sure to address them at the meetings and also to make a safer environment for the kids that are actually playing there so they can have a fun time.

At the beginning of this meeting, Mayor McAndrew, you had phrased it as room for improvement or areas of improvement we could apply in our own respective committees. I personally think that the Parks and Rec Committee is doing a ton already. And areas for improvement obviously can come in any governmental state, but I really think the Parks and Rec committee is doing a ton, especially for Clayton being known for all of its parks and things such as Shaw Park. And so I would say that these are more recommendations, stuff that if the Parks and Rec community has more time more efforts they'd like to put towards new things, these are some recommendations we could have. So the first one of three that I want to bring up is the dog park. I do know that the dog park is somewhat close to Shaw Park and everything, but sometimes as a dog owner myself, we always look for opportunities to take out our dog different places he can explore, explore more of the world. And so I think one big thing that we could incorporate into the dog park as well is having similar events such as my friend Matthew talked about. So having events in which more and more people's dogs or more and more people will be more inclined to actually bring their pets or any animals they would like to bring to any sort of fun activities that the animals would like to have fun in. The second thing I'd like to talk about is a public announcement about littering. And so walking around in Shaw Park, as well as playing in the tennis courts, you'll commonly see that sometimes there's litter all across. And of course, everyone knows the consensus of generally you shouldn't litter. However, having a public service announcement, actually saying this in writing or in a language form would be, I think, extremely beneficial as it does just help to spread more awareness. The third thing I would like to do would tie into the livable community project that the previous Parks and Rec people talked about. And so adding on to livable community project, something I think would be interesting is that I've seen throughout many parks but not exactly Shaw Park is that there's tons of board games slide around. And so with the Louisville Community Project, having the building contain board sets such as Jenga, Connect Four and all of the such, having tables with like these board games actually supposed to be played at, I think would help to also bring in the community just a bit more in case we ever actually need it.

So finally, we would like to thank Mayor McAndrew, Ms. Kearley, and Ms. Abeles, as well as the whole Parks and Recreation Committee for letting us have this amazing opportunity. Thank you.

Thank you.

You guys

are gonna have to squeeze in a lot more than that.

I know it's got wheels. I was trying to...

Oh. I got you. Thank you. I tried to... I'm

good here. Thank you.

Two minutes away. Yeah.

All right. Oh, jeez. They're also good

job. Excellent.

Yeah, right.

Are we on break?

I guess they know. They did, didn't they? Thank you. Thanks so much. Great job. Thank you. Let's start with this one. That's nice.

Council Member Buse. Here. Council Member Patel. Here. Council Members Gary Feder.

Council Member Buse. Here. Council Member Patel. Here. Council Members Fader.

Council member Jeffery Yorg.

Council member York.

Council members Waldman. Here. Councilmember Betsy Meyland-Smith. Here. Mayor McAndrew.

Council members Waldman. Here. Councilmember Malin Smith. Here. Mayor McAndrew.

City Manager David Gipson.

City Manager Gibson.

City Attorney O'Keefe. Here. Thank you.

think so.

My name is Natalie Dowd and I live in Ward 2. Clayton's Flock AI cameras record license plate numbers and other details about every single car that passes into their view, make, model, color, and any decals or bumper stickers. These are details that AI can then read and use to categorize drivers by their religion, political leaning, gender, and sexuality. All of this is recorded for every car every time it passes a flock camera, which also provides the system with timestamp data that can determine the driver's schedule and habits. In the past two council meetings, I established how Immigration and Customs Enforcement can gain access to our information through Clayton's flock cameras. ICE has had over 4,400 federal court judgments against them since October of last year. They abduct with violence, separate families, cage people over paperwork, and deport people into dangerous situations, sometimes to countries they have never even visited. ICE regularly violates due process and denies people basic human rights. Having flock cameras in our community contributes to ICE's information network and aids in their cruelty. If we cancel our flock contract, then we are reducing the size of their network and weakening their ability to continue with unjust and inhumane treatment of human beings. At least five people have been detained by ICE right here in Clayton since 2025. I was going to call ISIS cruelty unspeakable, but truly their violence and unlawful behaviors are well known. I ask that we, the city of Clayton, cancel our flock contract and remove ourselves from this network. Save Clayton hundreds of thousands of dollars, protect the most vulnerable among us, and make a conscious decision to do what is morally right. I also ask that the council create a policy detailing when, if ever, the Clayton police are permitted to contact ICE. Police Chief Mark Smith has said to me several times that he doesn't know anything about immigration enforcement and doesn't do that. So there is no reason that we shouldn't make it official. Thank you.

Yes, Mayor, this is a public hearing and ordinance submitting Chapter 405. During the Clayton Tomorrow 2040 comprehensive planning process, the community provided feedback pairing continued support for outdoor dining with heightened enforcement. Especially in commercial nodes with multiple restaurants and high foot traffic, balancing the competing interests of diners and pedestrians requires consistently applied rules for private use of the public right-of-way. In response, staff drafted revisions to the outdoor dining permit program with the aim to increase compliance without raising the administrative burden. The proposed changes include reducing focus on outdoor dining on private property, streamlining the permit duration, and holding an initial inspection to verify conditions on the ground. Taken together, we believe these revisions should lead to a more predictable system with expectations communicated up front, moving away from reactive complaint-based enforcement. It would also reduce the possibility for miscommunication between back-of-house staff who may have applied for the permit and the front-of-house workers who implement it. No changes are proposed to regulations for outdoor dining temporary tents. And the text amendment was presented to the plan commission on April 20th of this year and unanimously recommended to the city council for approval. Staff recommends that the city council approve the proposed ordinance amending chapter 405 to address the management of outdoor dining. And this evening we do have Hobie crop with our planning and development services department, as well as our director on a crane to answer any questions you may have.

Yeah, I have one question on it. I noticed as reading through the criteria, and first of all, this is great, following up on the livable communities and what our community has said, respecting ADA and pedestrian and bicycle routes and all of that. This is really great work. One question I had is, it's on page seven where you start talking about the materials for outdoor furniture. I did not know that, I've always heard we don't allow plastic furniture. This is allowing the resin furniture. And my understanding is there's a big difference in the types and the heavier, more quality is I hope what we're going for when it says no white resin. I don't know if that's just a color thing. There's a qualification. I think it's HDPE, and it's that durable, heavy, eco-friendly type of material. And if we're allowing resin furniture, I hope we have – if we can have that requirement that it is that heavier, eco-friendly materials. But again, I don't know what they're saying no white resin means or if we're already catching that.

planning staff may have more information on it, but my understanding is the resin is essentially talking about that plastic furniture and that we do allow it. We just don't allow it in white. And we haven't gone as far as to distinguish the type of resin or plastic that might be utilized.

Is that right? It's more of a color thing than it is?

Yes. And I would say that metal is the overwhelmingly... Most places that have outdoor dining have metal furniture, and there's a handful that have resin, but you could probably count them on one hand. And if we made a change to not allow resin, I guess we would enforce that change when they renew next year.

Okay. I would... I would suggest that we either require it to be that heavier molded resin that won't be moved as easily and isn't as similar to plastic. And again, with my little bit of knowledge, I think it's an HDPE qualification resin, which is longer lasting, all those things, quality, or else that we'd limit the use of resin. I'd like to hear what other people...

That there's just a handful that I'm aware of. Yes.

Uh, yes. Outdoor heavy duty plastic.

thought. And I would like to hear what the council says, but if we want those quality outdoor pieces and we don't want, we don't want them breaking. We don't want them being moved too easily or blowing in the wind. It's like a Pollywood or something that, you know, some of us may have in different things. It's just that heavier plastic that is more durable. It is more eco-friendly. It looks better and it lasts longer. So over the course of time, it's probably a better investment. Although I do understand what you're saying. But I don't know that we really need plastic chairs, especially if we're trying to maintain our sidewalks and everything else.

Can I ask you, Susan, just because I'm having trouble drawing to mind any examples, if there are any examples where you've seen this that would help me understand the potential issue?

It's the weight. A lot of it is the weight and the durability of the furniture.

No, but

I mean, I'm not... In Clayton?

Yeah, I don't know if you don't want to... Is there a current business where you see this happening in Clayton or you're just foreseeing that it could happen?

Oh, I was surprised that we were allowing the plastic chairs. I haven't really paid attention maybe. Maybe that kind of defeats my argument. But that was all no, so I don't have anywhere in particular. But if we're going to allow plastic outdoor furniture for dining particularly, I would hope that it would be durable enough to stay where it's supposed to stay and look good for the restaurant.

No, and I don't want to say we shouldn't be proactive even if we don't have the issue today. So I wouldn't suggest that. I was just wondering if there was... My question, one of the things that I remember we talked about the idea that even when the furniture is metal, it moves because it's furniture outdoors. Um, and so we have a number of places, especially, I mean, I'm, you know, on demand where the seating like migrates and definitely infringes upon the par or pedestrian access route. And so, um, we talked about like how we'll try to manage this. And I know there's the, we've suggested that people may create like an actual physical separation, which helps to find the space and hold it in place. But we're not, I don't believe we're requiring it. And then so I'm just interested in how we expect to be able to make like our is there something else in here that I missed that will help us manage The migration of

I think the main way we'd avoid that is with the initial inspection every year before the issue, the permit is issued where a city staff member would go on site and review what was submitted and then have a tape measure and say, you know, you said this was 5 feet, but it's actually 3 feet. So. The permit's not going to be issued. And then ask the restaurant to keep a copy of the approved plans on file so any day if somebody complained and an inspector would show up, they'd be able to verify what everybody agreed to. And if you do that at the beginning of the outdoor dining season with someone at the management level, they can then communicate to their employees and diners what the expectations are.

And on an ongoing enforcement basis, we do have our public works employee that's deployed to the business areas now. And so this is on his list of things to look for. And so as he's going around... And he's

not only downtown. He heads to Munn and lie down handling and stuff too. That's

correct. Yeah, so all of these areas where we might see outdoor dining, he is going through there daily. So he's taking a look at those pictures to make sure that there's enough clearance.

And are we actually... expanding the required width of the PAR? Or was that not codified before?

So the current rules are a bit confusing that they mention three feet as the bare minimum, but then say where possible four feet. So we removed the kind of conflicting rules conflicting numbers and went with the current standard, which is five feet.

Okay, great. And so, so it is possible that like the way called these just to pick on them has their furniture at demand and Northwood would need to be rearranged in order to actually provide five feet of access that does not include tree grates.

Right?

Awesome.

Well, I'm all in favor of this. I do have a couple of questions. One's a little bit of blast from the past. It seemed to me maybe David remembers this, but we had something I think we called them parklets or something in the street that actually provided in the street additional space. And I'm trying to remember why those went away. I realize that's not necessarily.

Sasha's has one.

Do I still have one? Okay.

That's the only

one. I was wondering, it seemed like that worked pretty well, particularly where there was a narrow space in downtown, that that would actually be a way to have three or four spaces. Admittedly, it killed a couple of parking spaces, but I'm just wondering, is that still in the program or are we sort of giving up on it? It's

still there and available. Sasha's is the only one that currently uses it. The city's parklet that we used to loan out to businesses at this point is, it fell apart. It was 10 or 12 years old. been deployed and redeployed multiple times. So that's no longer available, but Sasha's is the only example of a restaurant currently using it. I think one of the things we heard at the time where those started to go away was we're staffing concerns more than anything else with the restaurants was trying to have enough servers to actually service the inside of the building and outside because that outdoor seating is what replaced the indoor seating during the pandemic. So we just haven't seen those return.

And my only concern, and again, I'd love to see more of this, is just from the city staffing standpoint, it does talk about the fact that the permittee, the restaurant owner, is going to be responsible for making sure these outdoor areas are kept neat and clean. We all know historically we've had issues in downtown about generally the upkeep of commercial establishments, even without outdoor dining, just trash cans, other things. I think we have... we've staffed up now, I guess it gets directed to David to try to have someone who's regularly checking these things. But I just want to make sure that as we increase these types of uses, that we feel like if the owner doesn't take care of the space in an orderly manner, that we have the staffing to constantly make sure these areas are being kept neat and clean. Yeah, that's

exactly what that position is for. So it is on his list, his checklist of things to look for every day. And if we have repeat issues, then that's something that will be referred over to the planning department. And we can enforce it from there.

And that again, as a person who's not only downtown, but also in the demand area, or why down in Hanley, wherever we have, that's correct, these kinds of establishments. Other than that, I think it's great idea. We do more of it.

no questions one comment for susan to your question um i tend to agree with you on the plastic but i also don't necessarily see it as a big problem at the moment so in my mind i'm kind of weighing it on what what is the imposition onto places that currently have it versus is there a character of clayton that's somehow being affected by plastic or metal and i don't i don't see that yet And if we can make this change in any given year and the next year, it basically becomes a requirement on business renewal. I'd rather wait and just see if it becomes a challenge for us from a character standpoint and then deal with it. Then it may be more costly overall for the businesses, but I think it's a way in it right now. I think we can probably wait. That would be my two cents to your

question. Yeah. And I don't know enough of how to qualify it to, to, To all I know is that the it's a it's a heavier it's a heavier resin itself petroleum based product, but it's. It tends to be you know you can think of what you can buy it target for inexpensive chairs versus what you're buying when you're getting. You know that that heavier still a resin base, but it would stay in place a lot better on our streets, and I think look better and that's the only reason. doing it now versus later there may not be a problem until people start hopefully the people who are taking us up on this and once they start buying their plastic then they throw out every season because it's just cheap plastic it's probably it may be better to do it prospectively than to

be honest when i heard when i read resin i was assuming those sorts of heavy duty chairs as opposed to the traditional like let's call it target plastic chairs to me resident plastic are two different things but doesn't sound like that was necessarily the intent

right and at one right I was hoping that by banning the white, we were banning that. But I think resin is generally a little heavier than plastic. But it's the high-density resin that is what you would imagine as that mold that you actually molded.

Oh, I know Pollywood. When you mentioned Pollywood, I know exactly what you're talking about.

Yeah, Pollywood. Yep.

I just had a quick question about the outdoor separation. And it's saying it needs to be – Or right away could be a minimum of 30 inches tall pedestrian barrier. Is there a maximum that we want to kind of add to that? Or is that listed in a different area? I

didn't think we included a maximum.

I guess I just worry about, you know, because you're in it. It was talking about, you know. Possibly like knocking over from wind or whatever. You might want to. do a max on that.

Well, I've been wondering about that because across the street, I was wondering what we have. I do think that

also like plays into the vibrancy that we are trying to, you know, create on our corners and things

like that, that this. Yeah, we can add a maximum here. The Um, walls though, because we still have all the architecture of eboard requirements administratively, we wouldn't sign off on it. So example, across the street, they put that all in without permits, despite stop work orders and are currently have received a summons. So, um, yes. So we would not have approved that under there after dying.

Okay. Oh, good. Yeah. No. I remember when those went up, I was like, how did that happen? But okay, so you're saying we don't need a maximum because it would go through your office? We can

provide one, but that's how we would prohibit it.

Got it,

okay. Because we do still have, with architectural guidelines and with our regular zoning requirements, a few things. So if the fencing would be in the public right-of-way, then that would also require review from Public Works Department. So we look at things like site distance around that, how it might be impacting any of our sidewalks or pavements or other things. But if you're looking to create a cap just to start with, then I would recommend that we do typical fence height. So four feet or so is kind of what you would see a normal ornamental fence.

Because when they go through this whole process, they would have to show all this to you guys anyway? Okay. Thank you.

Um, my only question is about the demand area, because I think that the change from three feet to five feet is gonna impact that area. Pretty, I don't know, pretty much. Um, and I agree that it is difficult to traverse, but the outdoor dining on demand really creates the vibrancy in the neighborhood. So have we thought about how to balance, like do we know what impact it's going to have on the businesses and restaurants on demand? And do we have some level of flexibility around it being implemented tomorrow that can be helpful for those businesses?

Well, I guess I'd say a lot of restaurants in the past, we've had two-year permits. So a lot of restaurants have chosen, especially more established restaurants have chosen to renew for two years rather than just kind of a wait and see thing. So a lot right now have their permits won't expire until 2027. So I guess that would provide a little more of a buffer to plan ahead.

add that the five feet comes from the pro-ag, which we actually have requirements to maintain right of way that meet certain accessibility standards. So the five feet is because of updates to that. So there's some elements that our public works director can reduce it for. Some exception, so to speak, but otherwise we really try to maintain whatever that required standard is in the existing code it's kind of confusing because there's references to a minimum of three. Then you sometimes there's a four sometimes five and there's also a reference to the pro act which sets the five. And that existing no grandfathering clause is in our current regulations. So we just found ourselves with a lot of different time periods of being addressed. So the biggest thing that Hobie's done is tried to streamline that by just automatically referencing PROAG. So at this point, without Matt Malick, our director of public works, saying exactly what the exceptions are under that, we've just clearly referenced over to what their requirements are in the right of way.

Yeah, and I don't believe this falls into the exceptions for it. So we have to maintain that clearance for ADA compliance. And that's why you see that there. And it may impact some of the tables and some of the fixtures that are out there. And that's something we're just going to have to adjust for. But if we had an ADA complaint, we weren't maintaining the proper width on the right-of-way, we have a bigger issue.

I think demand probably is a good candidate for bringing more parklets back if you know you're losing enough tables that it would make a difference and maybe think about putting a part of the parklet back in place.

Yeah, well, I'll make a motion. In addition to restricting that it can't be white, we are doing that. I move that the... text amendments be amended to say that with use of resin, it's a high-density polyethylene materials.

The way we would accomplish that, just to let everybody know mechanically, is under 405.3980E, which is the provision that deals with furniture materials, we would just add HDPE in front of the word resin. Just wondering how we would do that.

I should second it so that we can discuss it. I'm willing to do that. I will second it and then... Is

from anyone up here? I'm curious, like, how we would enforce that or to what extent we feel like we could. I'm not saying... You can tell,

I think. Are you doing this from, like, also a sustainability standpoint of it?

Yeah, it's a... it's a more eco-friendly alternative um and it's a it's

it would just have to

be more quality furniture

they would just have to show us the the furniture type when they're coming in to get the permit and they're going to show us where the furniture is at and what type of furniture it is anyway so we should be able to get that information

with the restriction of color as well so

yeah so the idea would be it'd be like more uh sort of like the character, but it also might be less likely to be considered disposable and create

like a waste. That's what I'm hearing. And the whole process of making it, it's more eco-friendly than some of the cheaper plastics.

Have we addressed the issue of the restaurateurs having to replace existing furniture?

I hadn't spoken on it before, but I agree with those who have said, I think we ought to wait on this. I think the restaurant business is a tough business. And if we were starting from scratch with a new city and new restaurants, it would be one thing. But I think to implement this now is a burden that we shouldn't impose. I think we should see how it plays out and amend the ordinance at some future point if we need to.

I guess I would... I mean, if we don't want... plastic furniture. It sounds like no one can think of an example of a place that has plastic furniture right now.

Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah, that is okay. So in

fact, we have, we don't believe we are impacting current businesses. I don't know to what how hard it would be to validate that or like

I mean, Hobie looked at the permits that we have. We think we have probably less than five that might have some form of resin, but we haven't been asking for enough detail

on

previous permit applications to be able to tell you if these comply with what you're saying or not.

There could be. I mean, Hobbie could tell you a couple of the names. I just didn't want him to stand up here and say, these four are the only one, and then you drive around and find another. But he could give you a few examples that have resin.

I think 801 Chop House or Fish listed it on their application. The Tora Asian Bistro that's going to go in North Central, they asked to use it, but they haven't gone into business yet. So we have an issue with that one.

Yeah, Sushi AI used to. Yes. That they've upgraded. So that's where there's a couple that were out there. So we would have to do a better dive.

I just don't want us to be reactive if we think this matters. If we think this matters, then I would encourage us to do it. It sounds like it has maybe impact on no businesses. If we're worried it might have some, we probably could... grandfather any who today have an existing permit or i don't know i

i don't think you don't like that yeah ever use the term of

yeah what would you i mean um like previously approved if it's equipment if it's like a material that was previously approved i mean it can be kept until new fire

And I'm sure that our lovely attorney, O'Keefe, could help you with wording. But you could essentially add in a clause that gives anybody as of this date who has that furniture an amount of time to phase it out.

Yeah.

I mean, that was kind of my thinking. As you said, I don't know if we need it, but if that's where we want to go, part of me wonders can we just set it to say this particular requirement goes into effect at either – a year from now, or whenever your permit expires, whatever happens to be the longer of the two. And that way you're giving people who have a two-year permit time, but you're also those folks whose permit comes due next week. They're not all of a sudden out of luck.

I even wonder if the people using the lighter... the less quality material if they replace it every year. So I don't know how big of a burden it would be, but if that's what we want on our streets, it's probably a good idea to get it in there. But I understand what you're saying about the expense it may be giving to a restaurant, but it doesn't sound like

didn't see a vape shop and we didn't see an electric sign. We should not imagine that these things aren't going to come here if we don't want them. Like I'm not decided on this, but like, and I actually tend not to want us to like be really judgy about what kinds of materials people use. Like that's my inclination is to do less of that. But if the council thinks that this is an issue that matters, then we should do it. And not, I mean, like it's an easy insert right now. It sounds

Like, why don't we do that on fencing then? I mean, like there's lots of examples of stuff that's out in the city where we make property or homeowners or business owners do expensive things. So, I mean, I'm not, if we're going to like loosen up on a lot of that, that's great. But I don't think that's where this council is going to go.

And we are restricting color already. And the other part of it is sustainability-wise. That's another part of our city. If we are a city that wants to be eco-friendly and sustainable and lead on that, this is one step that has a lot of other benefits for us as well.

Anybody else? I like the idea if we move forward with something like this in allowing the five restaurants or whomever already has the materials to live the life of that product, because I think it defeats the purpose of wanting to be sustainable for like, well, you got to throw all that away and buy something else. So, you know, under those conditions, I feel okay with it, but I don't know how complicated that makes life for enforcement and planning.

My only thought with that is I agree with it in concept, but I don't know how I'd be concerned for you all that somebody who has 15 pieces of white or red lawn chairs and they're like, hey, they're supposed to phase it out, four get destroyed miraculously, four more show up and they don't tell us that they've just replaced

them. That's my only, that's where I

like the timeline more than.

Yeah, I think Kevin's working on something hopefully over there, but typically what we would do in an ordinance like this is you would have some sort of provision that states that that you know two years or one year whatever it is so then what what we could do is at the next renewal cycle provide a little note hey this type of material is phasing out and then instead of trying to keep track of how many chairs the various ones have it's more of a drop dead you know you might get one renewal or two and then on the next renewal after that you will have to update it

Materials like this, we always have to try to keep up with the environmental standards. The white resin specifically is called out because that was an aesthetics decision by the ARB previously. So most of our material guidelines come from the ARB, so similar to vinyl fences or other things. So that was added into the outdoor dining regulations for the actual materials previously, and we didn't recommend any changes to that provision at this point. But that's why the white resin was called out as just like white vinyl and other things. The more plastic-y materials, when they're white, they tend to also appear a little bit more plastic-y. So that's where that one came from.

I would tend to agree, Mayor, with your earlier comments. I think a restaurant owner is concerned about the image that they present, the comfort of the areas that their customers are going to be enjoying. I don't think anybody wants to have an unattractive or uncomfortable or even perhaps unsustainable type of appearance. I have enough confidence in the people in Clayton. I know we have a restauranteur in the audience. I have enough confidence, you know, I think to some extent this is a solution in search of a problem. You know, I think it's fine as is. I certainly would not impose it unless there was some degree of due process in terms of allowing people who have to change the furniture some, as was suggested, some time to do it. But again, and frankly, since this is as much as anything an architectural or design issue, one is I'd like to, if we really want to debate it, I'd like to hear more what is best practice. Are there other communities that have dealt with exactly the same issue? I'd just as soon get an opinion from the Architectural Review Board if we're serious. They didn't bring this up. If we really want to take it back and see what they think, that's fine. Other than that, I would leave it as is for all the reasons I've said.

Just a comment talking about the expense. We're talking about not allowing cheap materials. But I understand what you're saying. I respect

I'm sorry, can I ask a question before you call the roll? Is there a recommendation from our city attorney about how to... add this requirement, but provide some grace period without or something of notice, but without using the word grandfather?

Well, Mr. David Gipson has already suggested language added in HDPE before the word resin in the third line of subsection E. If there was a desire to delay the effective date of that, a new sentence after the word resin could be provided, however. that the requirement for only HDPE quality resin fixtures shall be applicable to permits issued after, and I put in January 1, 2027. Is an approach if someone wanted to make a motion to amend the motion to amend to add something like that.

Well, Mr. Gibson has already suggested language added in HDPE before the word resin in the third line of subsection E. If there was a desire to delay the effective date of that, a new sentence after the word resin could be provided, however. that the requirement for only HDPE quality resin fixtures shall be applicable to permits issued after, and I put in January 1, 2027. Is an approach if someone wanted to make a motion to amend the motion to amend to add something like that.

motion, if someone wishes to amend the motion pending, that would be in order before the motion, the amendment is voted on.

Okay, a quick question. Hobie and Ana, I think you just kind of told us how you would approach it with giving people time to comply with the new ordinance. And Is that sufficient? Do we need to say that more clearly? Well, the amount of

time is really up to you. So using the date that Kevin suggested, that would get everybody here. Because we do license renewals once a year. So that's part of the new system that HOBE is transitioning to. It says January 1, but that spring would effectively be when the regulations would go into effect. So it would give people... almost a renewal cycle, depending on where they are. They might not know about the change, though, until next spring.

That would help you as well in enforcing it.

Yeah, if you use the date as recommended of January 1, then we will have to first try and notify everybody because some of those restaurants won't renew until after January 1. So we would have to go figure out who has it, notify them in advance of their upcoming renewals.

And I would also just note that like as alluded to, we do not have staff proactively going out and like harassing our restauranteurs. So I think the risk of this really causing a serious harm to a business that's already in operations is quite low unless the material is so bad it gets

So procedurally, do I move to amend the motion as suggested by council? Can you pull the microphone a little closer? Yeah. So I move to amend, the motion to amend

If you just want to revise your motion.

Okay, I move to revise my motion to amend to allow for an effective date on use of HDPC resin of January 1, 2027. Is

that agreeable to the

I think 2027 is too early, I think it needs to be 2028 for all the reasons we talked about you got

to make a friendly emotion to amend and if she accepts that the date change from 27 to 28 and it's good.

I mean Susan wants to do that she could also just change your change your amendment if you're okay with 2028.

I mean, it'll be here before we know it. Yeah, I mean, I think if we really want to give time, 28 is good.

Essentially what we would do is in preparation of the renewal next spring, we'll notify people of the renewals upcoming and with this. It would give them essentially one more year if they had existing furniture that they could use for another year or they would change it.

if i make the approach to men i'm gonna need a second i'm gonna vote on that and then you're changing it so i'm trying to avoid the extra votes if you're amenable to it but

yeah that's that's i think our message is getting out to our community and i do agree with you that our restaurateurs are probably complying with this type of requirement anyway and it's really to avoid other problems so I move to amend, I move to revise my motion to change the

effective

date to January 2028. Second. Any further discussion?

It's 28 now. Yes. Thank

sorry. Did the chair rule on the vote?

yes. I introduce bill number 7154 as amended, approving text amendment to chapter 405, article 24, outdoor dining regulations to be read for the first time by title only. Second.

Bill number 7154, first reading and ordinance amending chapter 405 of the Clayton City Code to revise the regulations for outdoor dining.

Aye. Any

I move that the Board give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of Bill No. 7154 as amended on the day of its introduction.

Aye.

I introduce Bill No. 7154, approving text amendments to Chapter 405, Article 24, Outdoor Dining Regulations to be read for the second time by title only.

Mr. City Attorney. Bill No. 7144, second reading and consideration for adoption and ordinance amending Chapter 405 of the Clayton City Code to revise the regulations for outdoor dining.

Council Member Buse. Aye. Council Member Patel. Aye. Council member Gary Feder. Aye.

Council Member Buse. Aye. Council Member Patel. Aye. Council member Fader. Aye.

Aye.

Council Member Jeffery Yorg?

Council Member York?

Aye.

Council Member Waldman? Aye. Council member Betsy Meyland-Smith? Aye.

Council Member Waldman? Aye. Council member Malin Smith? Aye.

Yes, Mayor. This is a public hearing and subsequent resolution to consider a conditional use permit or CUP to allow the construction of new residences and parking on the Concordia Seminary campus. This property is bounded by DeMunn Avenue to the east, Big Bend Boulevard to the west, the Tuscany Park and High Point neighborhoods to the south, and the Hillcrest neighborhood in Wash U's Fontbonne campus to the north. The CUP area focuses on the portion of the campus west of Seminary Place and would replace all existing CUPs for this area. Uses on the Concordia campus outside of these bounds would remain governed by their existing CUPs. The proposed single CUP to govern the western side of the campus would facilitate future construction while maintaining the existing protections and buffers for the surrounding property. The CUP would govern the construction in the following zones, a multifamily residence zone, a single family residence zone, and a recreation zone, and would provide the following land uses, which would be efficiency apartments, paving, parking, and interior circulation, and stormwater management. improvements on the subject property would be subject to site plan review and architectural review in due course. The CUP would not allow density beyond existing conditions or those conditions identified as part of the CUP application and plans. Site plan review process will provide the public opportunities to review and comment on details of each construction phase, At their meeting on April 20th, 2026, the plan commission made a motion to recommend approval of the conditional use permit to the city council with 23 conditions. Modifications to two of the conditions originally, with modifications to two of the original conditions recommended by staff. Those modifications were staff had recommended that the exterior athletic field lights should be turned off by 11 p.m. Plan commission modified that and said turn off time will be considered at the time of site plan review There was also an original condition that the setback of at least 200 feet shall be provided between multifamily structures and adjacent property lines. That setback shall include a landscape buffer. This is modified by the plan commission, that a setback of at 200 feet should be provided between multifamilies structures in the Southern and Western property lines. The Northern setback should be determined at site plan review. The setback shall include landscape buffer. The motion was approved unanimously and staff made slight modifications to clarify those conditions and requirements recommended by the Plan Commission, but did not remove any of the conditions. Staff recommends that the City Council conduct a public hearing and consider approving the resolution granting a conditional use permit to Concordia Seminary with the stipulations contained in the resolution. We do have a team here from Concordia Seminar this evening to answer any questions. We also have Anna Krane in the back that can answer questions for staff as well.

Yes, Mayor. This is a public hearing and subsequent resolution to consider a conditional use permit or CUP to allow the construction of new residences and parking on the Concordia Seminary campus. This property is bounded by DeMunn Avenue to the east, Big Bend Boulevard to the west, the Tuscany Park and High Point neighborhoods to the south, and the Hillcrest neighborhood in Wash U's Fontbonne campus to the north. The CUP area focuses on the portion of the campus west of Seminary Place and would replace all existing CUPs for this area. Uses on the Concordia campus outside of these bounds would remain governed by their existing CUPs. The proposed single CUP to govern the western side of the campus would facilitate future construction while maintaining the existing protections and buffers for the surrounding property. The CUP would govern the construction in the following zones, a multifamily residence zone, a single family residence zone, and a recreation zone, and would provide the following land uses, which would be efficiency apartments, paving, parking, and interior circulation, and stormwater management. improvements on the subject property would be subject to site plan review and architectural review in due course. The CUP would not allow density beyond existing conditions or those conditions identified as part of the CUP application and plans. Site plan review process will provide the public opportunities to review and comment on details of each construction phase, At their meeting on April 20th, 2026, the plan commission made a motion to recommend approval of the conditional use permit to the city council with 23 conditions. Modifications to two of the conditions originally, with modifications to two of the original conditions recommended by staff. Those modifications were staff had recommended that the exterior athletic field lights should be turned off by 11 p.m. Plan commission modified that and said turn off time will be considered at the time of site plan review There was also an original condition that the setback of at least 200 feet shall be provided between multifamily structures and adjacent property lines. That setback shall include a landscape buffer. This is modified by the plan commission, that a setback of at 200 feet should be provided between multifamilies structures in the Southern and Western property lines. The Northern setback should be determined at site plan review. The setback shall include landscape buffer. The motion was approved unanimously and staff made slight modifications to clarify those conditions and requirements recommended by the Plan Commission, but did not remove any of the conditions. Staff recommends that the City Council conduct a public hearing and consider approving the resolution granting a conditional use permit to Concordia Seminary with the stipulations contained in the resolution. We do have a team here from Concordia Seminar this evening to answer any questions. We also have Anna Crane in the back that can answer questions for staff as well.

Yeah, I have some. Thank you. Some of the questions or concerns that we got from residents in Ward 1 really most specifically related to lighting and lighting at the athletic field. And so, you know, the field today doesn't have lighting i believe right and um when we were considering athletic uses on this site a year and two years ago and we spent a lot of time talking about that and getting feedback from residents um i think we landed on um lights getting turned off at 9 30 unless it was like a varsity type event um on field lights and so I'd like to understand how the applicant would feel about that um about that suggestion

Correct hi my name is Cole hofarth i'm with lauren i'm an architect with lawrence group i'm here on behalf of concordia seminary. happy to answer any questions so regarding the light, the light timing in our meetings with city staff. We were just instructed that it would be consistent with other institutional uses in the city of clayton's so. Our understanding was that that was 11 which was an improvement upon the I believe the restriction of midnight around the rest of the city. Um, and that was acceptable to us, but we're willing to hear additional comments or concerns. Um, at this time, athletics are not going to be part of our site plan review or where we're really focused on the multifamily housing. But I do understand that the conditional use permit will govern this particular restriction or site usage. So,

yeah, thanks. Um, What do we do at the old CBC? I thought it was not 11, but I could be wrong.

The old CBC site is 10 p.m. Generally, though, our outdoor dining requirements are that it has to be turned off 30 minutes after the last game. So that's where midnight comes into play, as Cole was referencing. So 11 was earlier than that. So that was staff's analysis of 11, but CBC is 10.

Okay. I mean, I'm interested in hearing the rest of the council's opinions maybe before considering a motion, but also point of clarification that I don't think If we approve this, like the site plan review won't come down. Right. And

this is a really important thing for residents. And so I don't want to leave the plan commission ARB without our guidance on how we know residents feel about this. So that would be why I would be interested in modifying number three to reflect either 930 or 10. And if there's like some valid reason that Concordia would need it other than that, or on some exception or something, I think, you know, I'd be happy to hear about that. But yeah.

I believe that we would be happy with a 10 o'clock shutoff time or something amenable, but that was my understanding. I just know that the 11 came from other institutional uses, but we understand that this is a relatively unique piece of land.

Great, thanks. Yeah, so happy to make a motion or if somebody else wants to when we get to the end, however we go around that. And then also that lighting for the other, like I think that the property will have more light because it's being developed and improved. But that I think, you know, the athletic restriction that we talked about and the requirement that it's dark sky compliant and just based on like where it is. I don't have any other concerns about restricting the lighting beyond that at our point in the process as a city council. And I think otherwise, just to be clear, this is essentially like a like for like replacement of the type of housing that's there today. And is it fair to say that I'm sure you expect to build housing that will last longer than the housing that's being torn down?

100%.

Yes. Thank you very much. I'm happy for you to be able to get moving on your project.

I just wanted to clarify if ultimately a motion is made to change the time for the lights to be turned off to 10 p.m., that would be an amendment to condition number three.

I don't think I have any problem with that. I was a little confused by procedurally what happened here because it looked like the original condition was 11 o'clock. Then the plan commission said, well, let's just see what happens every time and do it from there. And then staff said, no, that's too discretionary. Let's go back to 11 o'clock I think that's what's happened so far. And now we're saying, let's make it 10 o'clock. I just want to understand what happened here.

Right, so the Planning Commission made a couple of references to site plan review. We were explaining that that's when we would review actual fixture locations against our outdoor dining regulations. But in speaking with Concordia, they preferred to have an understanding of what the time was before for some of these fields, first of all. And then with the setback requirement, it's really hard for us to go through site plan review and not know the setback until after it gets to the Planning Commission. So staff just made a couple of modifications so that Concordia knows how to actually start designing their projects to go through site plan review without kind of figuring that out at the meeting. I

think I understand how we got here.

Yeah, so I guess my only question is if we're going to replace light for light, is the assumption or the expectation that all the setbacks being eliminated the current neighborhoods and the current places will all stay the same? Or is that something that could be changed in site plan review later? Like what I guess what I'm thinking about is the neighbors, is it going to look the same when it's all done, when they look in? Or is there a chance that the places could be closer to homes than they currently are? Could it be closer to Big Ben? Could we take some trees out? Like what discretion exists with us?

to get a better refined understanding of where the existing buildings are today so there was a 200 foot requirement for the multi-family buildings that were constructed from the southern line from tuscany park but if when we act we had the survey and actually measured it's slightly less than 200 feet today so what we've established moving forward is the minimum setbacks to be so the buildings are going to be angled slightly different they're going to look a little different so i It's hard for me to say exactly. They look out their back window and they won't notice a change, but the building should not be any closer to them than what they're experiencing.

And that's what I figured. My only ultimate concern as it relates to that is people expressed, as we all know, back when of all the changes and what they could see and what they really wanted was what they already had. So I'm trying to get a sense of how much control do we currently have on

And that is what it's gonna look like that is what we've done so in this in the proposed setback language that you have, we have either replicated those setbacks from previous CPS from when various things were built. Or we've added in a setback in this CUP that mimics what you see today. Some of the language is a little bit different, but essentially working with Concordia, there's a few spots where it gives them less than five feet of playing room based on some grading that we know is going to come. But essentially residents shouldn't notice a difference anymore.

Based upon what I read, the expectation is all the trees will... The expectation is the trees would stay on Big Bend in terms of blockage of views and everything else that people have now.

Yes, but all the specific trees, which ones stay, which ones are replaced, will come under site plan review.

Okay. The only other question I had, and it's more for the ward-born council folks, is You know, for something this big and the amount of feedback we had had before, do we feel like we have enough citizen comment already? Or is this something that we should. Maintain from multiple meetings to make sure we have all the feedback we need from. Residents.

I think you're probably looking at us, I guess. I mean, you sometimes hear things too and more too, but

we

only heard from one or two, a couple residents. So there's like some awareness of it. A couple other people ask questions. And the only concern actually raised was the lighting, the hours of the lighting. So I think, you know, to the previous point, this is, kind of what some of the naysayers wanted anyways. The biggest issue that folks in Hillcrest have on Dartford is water that comes from Concordia's property onto Dartford. But the future plans, which isn't precisely what we're approving now, but even the future plans are like, have significant improvements in that area. And so I think It's all good.

Correct. The dry detention basins are going to be generously sized compared to what's there today, all complying with MSD's much stricter standards than what they had 30 years ago when this site was built.

Thank you. I don't have any qualms about doing it.

And that's just what I wanted to check. That's a

good point.

Yeah, I guess from the previous time I had written down trees, lighting, water runoff, And so it looks like those are all being addressed. And then I guess just with regards to the retention or dry detention basins, with site plan review, those will be where we see like the calculations for all that kind of stuff. Okay. And so we're not approving those locations or anything with the CUP. Is that right, Anna or Eric?

Yeah, we've identified the general, well, they've identified the general location of them, but the exact size and extent will come under site plan review.

Okay.

Just logically looking at the site, I don't really know where else they would put them.

Right. Well, I guess just my only question, because I know that's like the tree area. So like, how does that work? If that's kind of like where we're designing to have all that, but we really want trees and to keep our existing trees, how does that works?

Yeah, so we'll be responsible for any trees that are removed, replacing the caliper inch removed in the site that we are affecting. So trees that come down as a requirement of the construction of the dry detention basin have to be replaced on site as part of the city of Clayton requirements. That will 100% be a burden. I will say the location of the southwestern dry detention basin is the existing location. We're just enlarging it to help with neighbor runoff. So unfortunately, we can't In the area in the affected area, we're not going to be able to save every tree. But we will have a replacement requirement. And we will follow all of those requirements. But to keep water off neighbor properties that we have, we have to go somewhere with it.

Okay, so my I guess my question is then with that dry detention basin and the phase one a it would would all the trees in that area be eliminated? Even though you're planting them elsewhere? Would that chunk all be gone?

It would we'd have to eliminate we'd have to remove some trees to build that and then could and then, but the dry detention basin will have some plantings in it so it's not going to be just a big. sewer system that will be visible from the road, it will be beautified and a nice place and it's still an amenity to the neighborhood as opposed to. just a water collector, I swore.

Okay. Yeah. I guess that's just my, my one area of concern is because, and I know we usually have like our trees shown and I'm not seeing them here. So I don't know, like, is that the largest chunk of our tree? You know, and I know that was a really big issue with the residents last time.

Yeah. So the way this will work, so the, In all likelihood, they won't have to remove every tree in that whole phased area. They will? They will not. Oh, will not. Yeah, they will not. So under site plan review within their disturbance areas where they're going to identify so that the disturbance area will cover what they need to actually facilitate construction along with where they're, you know, moving to. So that will cover within their tree chart that you're used to seeing. That will identify all the trees that are potentially impacted within that zone that they're working on, including ones that are going to be removed, going to be protected, and then also identifying where they're going to plant the new trees. So within the requirements, we have the setback provision talks about referencing that a landscape, that area should be landscaped, that setback area. So then we'll work with them through site plan review the specific caliber replanting will be based on our tree planting requirements. So that's how we're going to kind of go zone by zone, so if you'll recall back with the South 40 overlay we established canopy coverage for the entire overlay district. But in this case we're only establishing a conditional use permit for a portion of concordia is property. So there isn't that same, we don't have that same starting point of all of the canopy coverage and else. So with the caliper replacement, given the areas that are probably impacted, the size of trees that they're going to take down, they're going to have to plant a substantial number of trees on Concordia's property.

So quickly remind me, if you have a caliper that's six inches and that has to get taken out, you are not going to replace it with a six inch caliper tree, right? It would be like

two. Yeah, you'll get multiple smaller caliper inch trees that would replace that one larger one that you took down. Thank you. Likely. I don't think they'll be planting a bunch of six. Well, some of the ones they're taking down, you can't. There's no way you can. Right, right. That's what I'm saying. Like if you can't

replace that one, so you would just do like two? There will be.

And also what will likely happen is that some of the replacement trees will go outside of the construction zone for that area because we want to make sure that they can grow. So we can't over plant zone one with a million trees.

Yeah, I have a tree concern too because it looks like you're moving the roadway from one side of the field to the other side. And so is that roadway going to be like where the field is now or is that going to take out a whole row of trees too?

No, the roadway is going on top of the existing soccer field. It's really just to connect, make the connection to the field the parking lot that was previously used by Fontbonne university so that we can make an internal campus connection.

Okay. And then there will be no roadway. Correct. Okay. Um, I agree with, uh, council member Patel about the, the lighting, um, being changed, but the only other thing that I wanted to, um, to mention is, um, As a neighbor, I really appreciate how Concordia behaves in the neighborhood and is so generous with letting neighbors use the facilities and the fields in particular. And I know that they're currently probably intended to primarily serve the community of Concordia Seminary, but I know that there have been developments in the neighborhood the past that have not at concordia where um neighbors thought that they were going to still have full use but it actually has been more restricted so i just want to put on record that i hope that that relationship between concordia and captain elementary and the community at large um stays the same way once you once you guys beautify things over there so

i agree I can say that we've had conversations about it, and the intent is not to restrict any neighbors from continuing to access the property. In fact, it should be a lot better because there will be pedestrian bollard lights in more locations, and it'll be, you know, ideally a nicer place to hang out outside and inside. Great.

The last thing that I wanted to mention, and... This one came from neighbors to is and I know that this is like a cup thing and probably not going to happen, but I just want to put it on record again that. dartford not become a vehicular pass through so yeah great So do I need to make that motion you

like to

sure. Okay, I move that we amend condition number three to reflect the lights be turned off at 10pm.

I move to approve resolution number 202611, granting a conditional use permit to Concordia Seminary for 801 Seminary Place. Second.

I made the change, but I forgot to print out the forms.

The handout. So if someone would like to make that motion.

agenda? What are we doing? Yes.

I move that the request for council action for committee assignments be amended. With respect to special business district advisory with council member, you are being substituted for council member abuse.

Can we do that or do we have to pull it from the consent agenda or by doing it? The consent

agenda and then, you know, we'll go take that motion and then.

to pull it out?

Can we repeat what's the change?

Committee.

Aye.

had a question on the consent agenda. It was really just the rendering of the memorial to Bob Chapman. I realize it is just a rendering, but can someone clarify for me? It looks like the... Searle's sculpture has been moved.

I asked the same question at Parks and Rec. I don't think that's not different. Yeah, it's a difference. It's different. Is it Searle's

junior? It's

an appearance, but

sculpture.

I just

wondered what happened there.

it was up at ferryway miller commission approved relocating it to chapman plaza it's a like a whirly gig is i believe how they refer to it is not the searles

okay

okay

it's a little disorienting

i did the same

Council member abuse. I council member Patel. I council member Gary Feder.

Council member abuse. I council member Patel. I council member fader.

I

also member Jeffery Yorg.

also member York.

council member Waldman. I also member Betsy Meyland-Smith. I near McAndrew.

council member Waldman. I also member Malin Smith. I near McAndrew.

Yes, this is an application for a conditional use permit submitted by Tom McGraw on behalf of Box Hill Group Hanley for the operation of a cafe known as Gigi's Cafe. The property is located at the northeast corner of the intersection of Y-Down Boulevard and South Hanley Road. It is zoned M1 Neighborhood Mixed Use and is developed with a two-story mixed-use building. The proposed hours of operation are 7 a.m. to 1 a.m., Monday through Saturday. The business would be closed on Sundays. During the planned commission meeting, a discussion occurred supporting the restaurant being open on Sundays as well. The proposed CUP would allow Sunday operations should the owner choose to do so in the future. The restaurant measures 2,200 square feet and would include roughly 45 interior seats and 12 exterior seats. There are five employee parking spaces, and deliveries will be made in the morning via the adjacent alley. The Plan Commission considered this request at its meeting on April 20, 2026, and voted unanimously to recommend approval as requested. This public hearing was closed at the last meeting of the City Council, and the item was postponed to this evening. Staff recommends approval of the conditional use permit per the conditions outlined in the resolution. I know we had the applicant here this evening.

Yeah, and the neighbors, everybody's very excited for this, and your reputation precedes you, and there's a lot of trust in how you do business. A concern that we heard is concerned with the late hour and wondering if you're amenable to having that Monday through Saturday close at an earlier time.

Yeah, sure. What I would do, just so you know, like we... All three places, I think, if this would consider the third, like Louie writes in this place, all have the one o'clock time limit. I'm pretty sure. However, our practice is Monday through Thursday, and this would be the same or at least hopefully be the same. Monday through Thursday, we stop seating at 10 p.m. And then Friday and Saturday, we stop seating at 11. Meaning what we try to convey to the guest is that when you board the ride, we're not rushing you out to get your order. We're not telling you when the kitchen is closing. So if you've arrived there by 11 on Friday and Saturday... So however we would do the... know it's just to allow time to close up and clean up but um

yeah up until 11. yeah on friday and saturday monday through thursday it's till 10 p.m same same at louis okay

okay so if we some of the suggestions out there were um you know stopping at 11 i think there's a it sounds like 12 o'clock would work better for how you

Yeah, I mean that would give the guest on Friday and Saturday, well, that would give the guests on, yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure how to answer that other than what I'm doing. I know what I'm doing now.

I think, and what we've heard from the neighbors as well, people want to accommodate you. Everyone's very happy you're going to be there. There is that concern. So it's a question about 1 o'clock, there was a lot of reaction to it. sure moving it down to 11 or 12 and how would that work with your business is kind of what i'm asking i'd like to hear what everybody else says too i'd be

yeah i honestly i should know better but but i think that i think that rights have yeah i i i'm okay i'm amenable to changing it uh i'm not trying to make anybody mad uh because i want them to come

okay

a restaurant first. The plan is to in its simplest form is to have it I think the neighborhood has a strong desire to have the coffee aspect of the Starbucks back. That was sort of the community hub for the neighborhood. And the intention is to do that from 7 a.m. till 2. And me as an operator, since I was 14, 15 years old, I know that I can't afford that unless I run a restaurant at night and sell you food at a different rate of money than the community center. So the restaurant makes the viability of the community center work. Uh, and so, so from 7am till two o'clock, there will be like a traditional way. Like, you know, that you understand how a Starbucks or a Calde's work, you go up to the counter, you order, you seat yourself wherever from 4pm till close. When we stopped seating at 10 Monday through Thursday. And then when we stopped seating 11 Friday and Saturday from four till then it's a restaurant that serves, you know, pizza, pasta, uh, you know, right now I have a large creamy salad, a large bright acidic salad, some meatballs on there. There's a, you know, tavern style pizza will be the center of what we're doing. And yeah, a big, you know, we plan for a large pizza oven that we're bringing in from Chicago and there's a big circular bar, so it kind of, or U-shaped bar, I should say, not circular, that hopefully will work. There's a lot of historical precedence for how that would work. You could sit there and be on your computer in the morning, and then at night you can sit and eat pizza. So that's the general outline of the idea.

Yeah, I think that... Again, the excitement is for more than just the coffee. They're excited for everything that you bring there. So I think that, I mean, I would be comfortable.

The most feedback, I guess. They want their coffee shot back, and I understand. I do too.

That's true. Yeah, I think that if a midnight closing time worked for you, I think that would work well with the neighbors in the area as well. Yeah, I

don't see that being a problem for me.

Okay, so everybody else has to comment on that. Becky, do you have?

Yeah, I think we should amend it to midnight then. And I think it's really awesome. And everybody's really excited. Great. Thanks. Councilmember Bader. Like

everybody else, we're very excited to see you open here. You've done a lot for our whole community and very successful restaurants all over. I heard, I think at the plan commission, you were asked about Sundays and I don't know if that's changed. I think you had said that. I'm thinking, I'm thinking we're

working on the schedule now, so that's a to be decided, but yeah, I'm thinking about it. I just typically.

I will add, and it's just, you know, anecdotally living close to your place to me, Sunday morning would be a great place, great time to come by. And I'd, I'd hate to see the door with a closed sign on it. So I hope we're not, we obviously aren't going to mandate that, but I hope you would consider.

Yep.

Even if you're not open Sunday nights, lots of places aren't open Sunday nights. But at least during the day, it would be great. We

Yeah, it is. Yeah. And on the closing time, whether it's 11 or 12, I think 1 a.m. sends the wrong message. And so wherever that comes out.

The only concern I have at all is I want to achieve the thing that I think the neighbors want to achieve. I promise. I've been feeding them for a long time and I would hear it. The only thing I want to achieve is just the runway to close the restaurant without feeling like I'm in violation. That's all. But my hours of operation wouldn't change. You know, the Sunday thing is an old thing just because I don't like asking people to do something I won't do. So I'm there six nights a week except for tonight and at both places. And we stop the stopping seating at 10 during the week and 11. It's something somebody can count on. operationally. So my worry is just the runway to close it down and get people out of there.

It won't give you much assurance, but if you open on Sunday morning, I promise I'll be there. All right. I'll hold you to that.

Make sure you have a special like $25 coffee. Right. That's right.

just excuse me just for confirmation for the record if nothing else and at some point i know david you sent the email and i just i don't have it with me can we confirm that their their condition use permits are all or not

louie's is until midnight and writes us until 11.

to write his

mind

yes 11 right there

but i'm not saying anything

So rights is till 11. So for my own edification, if nothing else, that means that they can seat till 11, but then they can't. I know in practice that's what you do, but I'm just confirming that if the CUP says till 11 and they're seating in 11.

Shouldn't be operating past the hours of the CUP. Okay.

Okay. So that means if they're serving in 11, they're outside of the window.

Be considering an amendment to that at a future time.

Yeah, that's

yeah.

Thank you. That's what I was trying to just trying to.

We'll need it. And I can assure you now, if that comes up, that that that revenue that I make from 11 till when those people are out of there, it's a 36 seat restaurant. I could tell you right now the math won't work. So,

you know, no, it's so if I

if I'm in violation. Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. I'm frankly thinking about how do we line everything up so that we're all where we need to be. Yep. Yeah. I think midnight makes sense. The only thing I would say, it's more just anecdotal, but Susan and I on the War II side have heard the concerns we hear most are actually the people that live above there. So just being thoughtful about how staff is closing down volumes, outside volume, how trash is being taken out afterwards, knowing that there are people living upstairs that are concerned that this may be until 2 or 3 in the morning by the time you close it down. So just... as you're thinking about how it all lays out, just trying to keep that in mind and do the best you can for those folks.

We have good practice with Dr. Martin across the street. He lets us know if the volume is at all. So we have very good practice. He and Barbara would let us know. Okay. Thank you. That's all I got. No, understood.

Yeah. I'm very excited for you to occupy that corner. I live in the Polo neighborhood and everyone in our neighborhood is just very excited with your existing restaurants on this new one. So yay for that. I do agree. I think midnight would be, If you're sitting at 11, then I'm glad, Jeff, you asked that question because that makes sense. Yeah, it does. It all fits together. So yeah, thanks.

it. It's been great. All of it. Louis has allowed all of that to happen for us. So I'm grateful for DeMunn and I'm grateful for Y-Down deeply. So yeah.

Yeah. I move that the conditional use plan be amended to change the closing time from 1 a.m. to 12 p.m.

12

a.m. 12

Where are we? I move to approve resolution number 202610, granting conditional use permit to Box Hill Group Group Hanley LLC for the operation of Gigi's Cafe at 7645 Whiteown Boulevard. As amended.

Appreciate it.

Yes. So back in 1977, there was a conditional use permit that was issued to Concordia for a multi-use building at 6701 San Benito Avenue. This was to reserve some parking in that particular area. Subsequently, in 2019, they renovated the building and added parking at that time, which basically made the deed restriction for this parking area unnecessary. So the request from the seminary is that the city approve an ordinance releasing the deed restriction and staff recommends approval of that action.

Introduce bill number 7155, approving the release of the parking deed restriction. for 801 Seminary Place and Cordia Seminary to be read for the first time by title only.

Bill number 7155, first reading, an ordinance to release certain restrictions for the properties addressed at 801 Seminary place and 6701 San Benito Avenue.

Aye.

I move that the council give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of Bill No. 7155 on the day of its introduction.

I introduce Bill No. 7 155, approving the release of the parking deed restriction for 801 Seminary Place, Concordia Seminary, to be read for the second time by title only.

Bill number 7155, second reading and consideration for adoption. An ordinance to release certain restrictions for the properties addressed as 801 Seminary Place and 6701 San Benito

Avenue. Council Member Buse. Aye. Council Member Patel.

Aye.

Council member Gary Feder.

Council member Fader.

Aye.

Council members Waldman. Aye. Councilmember Betsy Meyland-Smith. Aye. Mayor McAndrew. Aye. Thank you.

Council members Waldman. Aye. Councilmember Malin Smith. Aye. Mayor McAndrew. Aye. Thank you.

Not a lot since our retreat on Friday and we did have a war two coffee and we did have seven people oh that's great i believe uh goldstein was instrumental maybe 10 so

we had to tell them about that but there were a lot of people at that as well it was fun to be able to walk over but it was great that you had it right beforehand right so our yeah thought was that we can and we had and of course the sunshine cooperated was a beautiful beautiful day um We had good conversations. There was discussion about the lights and tornado recovery. Everybody seemed receptive and to be patient with us as we go along. There were concerns, again, with code enforcement, making sure that if we see something on properties, even if it's a little bit of peering into backyards or whatever, that we can act upon that. And Jeff and I kind of talked about the proposals to be a little more proactive and not too reactive with the door hangers and things like that as we try to progress and improve on that. But it was a positive morning. They went through a lot of coffee and took the entire time until the bird day began. And yeah, it was a good thing. And thanks for helping us get that arranged, June. Thanks for a marvelous bird day with the students. It was a good morning.

Great. The only thing I'll mention is that I got to meet Susan Hanley this evening, and she is amazing. She is amazing. brilliant and joyful. And it was just, she was great. So that was really fun and exciting that she's like feeling connected and energized by the folks that she met today. So

Just to follow up on that, I had never met Susan Hanley before. And I have to admit, when she got up this morning to speak, I thought she would say, gee, this is wonderful. Thanks. But in fact, as I learned, a historian, very articulate, very dedicated to this project. And I thought it was a very nice moment, also a nice meeting, talking to her this afternoon. I think that's it. We have a Ward 3 coffee coming up and look forward to that.

Great. Two things. CRSWC is on Friday. So I'll have more information next time. We did have a NERF meeting. The biggest, everything's fine. All the numbers are fine. The biggest change is we decided to move a value manager from one to the other because the value manager we had been having was underperforming. So the vote was made to switch managers. So that is in the process of happening, but otherwise everything would look good. Yeah.

um not too much to report i i think from the special business districts um committee we decided to have a subcommittee with parking which i think was we met with them i think last week now it was just it was very productive so it's um hopefully we're going to figure out some of the parking public parking sign issues um that will help hopefully solve lots of our parking problems so that was great um Cool Cities event, a little bit about solar panels and things like that. But our city is pretty up to date with all that. So we are definitely on trend for that. Hanley House presentation was lovely this morning. The weather was great. Had some first graders come out. And so that livened up the event a little bit. And I second everything about Susan Hanley. She's a very impressive lady.

I would just like to say that the Ward 1 block party was fantastic last week. So kudos to all that planned and executed that event. It was really well attended. The residents appreciated it and were very supportive. Very excited and engaged. And the businesses as well were really active and excited, and it was joyful.

Mayor, can I add? I know we're having a social with the school district this week.

breakfast. Just one observation I think I've made before, but it really came home to me at the Clayton Baptist Church dedication is the whole idea that that's a part of our history that I still wonder whether most of the kids in the school district know anything about. If that is taught, great. If it's not, it should be. And that's one of my general thoughts is that kids in Clayton should know more about what clayton is about particularly that history how mr clayton came to house the city named came to be named clayton i think that's all part of our history that i still think a lot of the kids in the school district don't know enough about and especially this baptist church the whole history of the black community in the 50s is an incredible learning experience that i hope our school district if they're not offering that to their kids they should and i'll try to mention that to some of my colleagues on the school board but i think it's time if it's not done that needs to be part of the curriculum

hi all