July 22, 2025 — Meeting Transcript

Good evening, everybody. It is July 22nd. It's 630. We're going to have a discussion session. And actually, we're lucky to have Grossman's here and she's going to give us a presentation on what the Sustainability Advisory Committee has been up to.

Okay, so I think my green light is on, so we're good to go. Um, those of you who have been on the board of Alderman for a while know that on an annual basis, I come in and update you on what is going on with the sustainability advisory committee. Um, I feel like we have very good representation from staff and, um, members of the Board of Aldermen. But just to make sure everybody's on a level playing field, I'll go through an update. I will say that I did a similar presentation on request by the City of Creve Coeur recently and I intended to speak for 15, 20 minutes, and it ended up taking an hour. So you're going to get the edited version. I'm going to slip through. There'll be some things on my slides that I am not going to talk through, but it's there in case you want to see sort of the full disclosure of what we've been up to. So June or Andrea, I'm not sure who's clicking for me. Thank you. For those of you that don't have the background, the Sustainability Advisory Committee was set up in the 1990s. It has been around a very long time to advise the mayor, the Board of Aldermen and the city manager about what kinds of sustainable programs and practices we want to have in place in the city of Clayton. There's two people generally from the Board of Alderman who serve. It's Susan right now and it was Becky, but Becky graduated from our group and has moved on. And I think we're going to have a new person, hopefully sometime really soon. So we are missing that one person in staff. Our primary liaison is Matt and Matt is just, I can't say enough good things about how responsive he is to the many things we would like to see. And then, of course, David also often comes to our meeting. We also usually have two interns from the MIAC. So I'm hoping in your role as mayor that you will continue the MIAC program and give us two more wonderful high school students. from Clayton High. And then, of course, we always have an intern from Washington University who's studying sustainability that helps us get so much of our work done. Cannot say enough good things about our interns. And I don't see her in the room tonight, but Alyssa Oates is our intern for this summer. So if she comes later, I'll point her out to you. We have done some initial planning and developed our sort of direction I'll call it back in 2023. Those of you who've been here for a while know that, but to flip this through, I'll just say that we decided to focus on the things that are in the first bullet, primarily reducing our carbon footprint and some gas emissions. And then the others that are listed there, which I'm not going to read out. And then whatever sort of short-term wins we could get. So if you'll flip for me, Andrea, we did that planning at the same time as the city was going through the Clayton Tomorrow 2040 and the Livable Communities Plan. So this was very much just a sense of direction by all the people who were on the committee and serving. So that's what we came up with. If you flip to the next one, I am going to try and quickly... So our first priority was really looking at reducing carbon emissions. What you're going to see consistently through these slides is in yellow, I've tried to highlight why it's important. Those of you who are sitting around up here, you have a one pager. Kevin, I don't know if you do, but we can get you one. Okay. But it basically outlines some of these same things on the one pager. I gave you the one pager because I'm hoping when you meet with your ward that you will use it as a way to say, here's what's going on. There were a couple of times when I attended various meetings over the past year or so where people said, sustainability is really important to me and I don't think Clayton's doing anything. And I'm like, oh. Dagger to the heart. That really hurts because we are and we got a lot of things underway. So for those of you who sit there and you go, I know we got a lot going on, but what was it Deb said? This is your cheat sheet. Put it in your pocket. Take it with you to your next meeting. Pick out the things you like the best and talk about those. So that's a little... a little aid, if you will. And that was a lot of work on this was done by our intern as well. Our first order of priority, which you can see there, you can see it up here is working on our greenhouse gas emissions from stationary buildings. 26% of Clayton's greenhouse gas emissions come from our commercial buildings and 27% from residential buildings. So how can we get under that? We're going to tackle the biggest one first. I'm sorry, the one where we can make the biggest change first, and that's commercial buildings. You all know that in 2024, we passed an ordinance providing for benchmarking for Clayton-owned buildings over 10,000 square feet. And then in January of this year, all buildings over 100,000 square feet, which is going to go into place later this year. communications for that rollout a lot of that work has been done over the summer not only with staff but also with Alyssa Oates who's gotten that together and Andrea who helped us develop the initial website for that. The other thing I would say is we have updated a green sheet for the architectural review board the one that's out on our website right now is a bit outdated so that's ready to go depending on approvals from all of staff but I think it's it's good to go. Next slide. The other piece we looked at was really trying to work on solar, making solar easier to accomplish in the city of Clayton. We did it by working with SolSmart, which is a national no-cost technical assistance program funded by the Department of Energy. We assessed a lot of our training, we assessed a lot of solar readiness and made all the changes that we needed to And we achieved the bronze level in 2023 and we got silver in 2024. Why am I talking about that tonight? May not have mentioned silver when I last met with you a year ago in May. But the other piece is I had a discussion with the SoulSmart people when I was up at the Midwest Climate Collaborative Summit in Madison. at the end of April and the beginning of May. And I'm like, I would love to be gold or platinum for the city of Clayton. We definitely have the ability to do that. But the one thing we can't control is how quickly the county turns around the permitting process. And that is an essential element. So I was arguing for an exception. I thought we could certainly, we deserved an exception. But what they did, which I think is even more useful rather than just giving one to our city, is they are presenting this week to both the city of St. Louis and the county on the solar app plus, which is a system they've devised for just everyday cookie cutter applications that allows the county to turn them around in 24 hours. And the county's attending that. So that's been organized by on a shot and I'm super hopeful that that will happen. And if so, then we will move forward with, move forward with our applications for that. Sorry about that. Okay, so let's flip to the next one. The next piece on the top says carbon footprint transportation. In Clayton, 44% of our emissions are coming from vehicles. So what are we doing? We're trying to move towards electric. We're trying to limit idling to reduce the number of pollution in the air, the amount of pollutants in the air, and also improve health reduce our carbon footprint. So our vehicle electrification assessment that was done in conjunction with Ameren's Ken Cressiman took place at the end of last year, just looking at what of our fleet could be an electric vehicle. It's probably even more timely now, given the bill that recently passed Congress that will remove some of the credits that are available. So I'm just going to toss that out there. Those, I think, go away at September. So some of the things we had planned and we're looking toward future with those credits in mind, those credits now are not going to be available anymore. There are some other state credits that might be available, but we'll see. So just a heads up on that one. Raising awareness on no idling. That ordinance has been out there since 1970. It is not one we ask our police department to enforce. They've got better things to do. But it is something that's really important for the health, especially of our littlest residents in Clayton. There's been a fair bit of research that's been done that says that if you were at a school pickup zone, the amount of formaldehyde and benzene and I don't know... I can't even pronounce it, a statelide and other air toxins that are present in the air during pickup times when all the parents are carpooling and their cars are idling is just really, really much, much higher than at any other time. So we're trying to make sure parents know that. Why is it important for little kids? If you're small, you're closer to the tailpipe. And the other thing is they breathe twice as much as every adult in this room. So they are getting a lot more exposure. My kids are well past this age, but I frankly think all the kids in Clayton and frankly, all the kids in our community are my kids. So I'd really like to see us do more about that. The Parks and Rec group, Tony helped us get a lot of signs up at Oak Knoll Park. and the Clayton Community Center. So we're really happy to see those up just as a reminder. And Matt has taken signs and put them up. I think some of them might be in the process of moving in our municipal garage, just to inform our own employees about what we're doing and why it's important. So he has a flyer that looks a little bit like this that explains why we think idling is important. This is low hanging fruit. This is something that we can all do. And if you're leaving your cars idling for more than 10 seconds, You're wasting money and you're contributing to our deteriorated air quality. So that's that. Let's go to the next one. So Clayton's green spaces. This is obviously all about trees and I'm just going to say as somebody who got hit by the tornado along with a lot of the folks in Clayton. Our tree loss is more than just the visual appearance of what is why down look like, which I've got to say every day I drive home that is crushing to me to see it and to see what's happened to our neighborhoods. But the loss of those trees, when I'm out walking in the middle of the day, it's hotter than all get out. I used to walk my dog three times a day and I had shade before and now we have none. It is really hot. So you can see from this, all the different ways that environmentally, socially, and economically, that that tree canopy means a world to us. And so absorbing carbon dioxide, reducing storm water runoff, all those things, we lost a lot. And not just us, but the city lost a lot, Forest Park lost a lot. So we care about the trees, obviously not only sustainability, but also parks and rec. So we're gonna move forward real quick. Thank you. We have been an Arbor Day Foundation Tree City for 33 years. Holy smokes, we are standing on the shoulders of all the people who've had all of our jobs before. Whatever capacity you're in here tonight, we have been the beneficiaries of the work that they did. In addition to that, we've gotten the Growth Award for 12 years running. I don't know if they've put out this year yet. That might go to 34 and 13, but we're doing a great job. We also had brought forward, those of you who've been here a while, remember that we did Lights Out Heartland, St. Louis being the fifth deadliest center in the country every year in the spring when migrating birds are headed north. So we promote that, we turn off the city lights in May and in September. You will see that happen again on our buildings. We'd love to see other buildings do the same. There's a banner that's going to come out that we're hoping to put in the front of City Hall that just says our lights are out for migrating birds. So that's important. Another thing that's changed since the last time I met you is we have filed our application to certify Oak Knoll Park as an urban night sky place. This is a process. We've been working on this for a couple of years. It went in at the end of, I think, end of April, beginning of May. We've had a little pushback. I was over in the park around, I don't know, 9.30, 10 o'clock at night the other night looking at some of the lighting fixtures that they have objected to, which I think totally pass. But we've had some help on that. Stephanie Todd came out with me. She works with their group as sort of the on-the-ground person for the state of Missouri. So we're hopeful. But stay tuned. It may still be a bit more time before we get that done. We got a grant from Missouri American Water Company to fund a water refilling station in Oak Knoll Park, and that got installed thanks to Tony and her team in the first quarter of 2025. So that's another big congratulations for Clayton. Bring conservation home. We've been working with them and the Audubon Society since... 2016, long before my time here. But we have had them come out and assess our front yard, if you will, of City Hall for what we might put in that is more Missouri native as an assist to pollinators than others. And let's keep going. I think we're done here in just a minute or so. Waste, everybody's favorite. A couple of the people on the committee joined me as well as our intern this past week and we did a tour of the Republic Waste Management Recycling Center, the MRF. If you've never been there, it's pretty amazing what this technology does. I commend you to it if you get an opportunity. If you want an opportunity, let me know and I'll try to arrange it for you. Our diversion rate in 2024 was 22%. So instead of just having it all go to garbage, 22% was recycling. We're continuing to focus on our Oops program. Green Dining Alliance, you've all heard that. I think everybody's been in this room since we passed the Green Dining Alliance. We've had two restaurants so far. We have a handful more that I think with some encouragement will come along on that program. So we continue to do that specialty recycling is coming up, we collected 5.7 tons in the first quarter of 2025 on your pass out sheet you'll see we did 4.9 in the first quarter 24 so that's better better. We're also adding passback sports that'll take all your kids' old athletic equipment as well as their uniforms. So if you have young people in your life, you know that every team they join has a different color uniform and every year it's a different color uniform. And On you go till you hit middle school or high school. So they're taking that. That's started by a WashU young alum who's working also with our St. Louis City Soccer and some other big programs like that. The product that gets collected then goes to underserved or under-resourced communities, and then what can't be used gets recycled. We've developed a recycling guide for our website. Water Monster was a big deal. I don't think you knew about that last year, but we have that in place. And that's kind of coupled with the idea that when it's a Clayton-sponsored event, we're asking people not to use plastic water bottles or Styrofoam and instead just use compostable. So we've got that in place. Andrea, next one. We're almost done, friends. Other quick wins. Kate did a lot of work this spring on stormwater best management practices because we've continued to see flooding, especially when we have a heavy downpour. I think more in your ward, Gary, that's been a big issue. So she created some best management practices and put that out, doing a lot of that work with Anna. And so that I think was helpful and effective, did that presentation to a number of different committees that you might serve on The one-pager, I'll just mention that. You all have it. Feel free to let me know if there's anything that you see that you think should change or if you need something updated. We'll try to do that every year so that you're ready to meet with your constituents. Climate Herald is a new... concept that I hadn't been familiar with, but learned about at the summit for the Midwest Climate Collaborative. Michael Dexter is a local guy and he's looking at all the communities around the country and what are they doing for sustainability. Unfortunately, the Clayton description was not up to date or accurate. So we went after that with here's a whole bunch of other things that you need to include about Clayton and what we're doing. So hopefully they will change it. They hadn't changed it when I checked yesterday. Next slide. So for us, you might remember last year I had a scorecard where we had a lot of yellow and green and all the different pages, but we're trying to get it down to just one page front and back. And so that's what you see here. This is a little bit of a repetition. The carbon footprint on buildings, you can see that we're slightly down already if you go all the way over to 2024. The next one is looking at emissions from vehicles, and we're pretty flat there. But in my world if you don't measure it, it doesn't matter. If you can't keep track of it in some way either financially or with some sort of quantitative measure. it's hard to say we've made progress or success. So that's what this is about. And I will say that we get our information on emissions from Crosswalk. And that comes directly from the climate mayors, which your predecessor, Michelle, had joined. And so this is a free data point for us. Other communities are out there spending 10 to 20,000 to get a one point in time emission data. but this is something that we can get fairly regularly. And it gives us not only buildings and transportation, but a number of other ways to slice it. Let's go to the next one. And so that's waste is the one all the way to the left. And it covers a lot of the things I talked with you about before. And then our green space, which again, we've covered those. But if I had to give you just two things to walk away with or to go to your meetings with, That scorecard and the one pager should hold you to any conversation where people are pushing you for more information. So we just want to make sure that you're ready and that you can address it just as well as anybody on the committee. One more slide. And I'm thinking I've got a few minutes for questions. Who do we do this stuff with? We partner all over the place because there is no way we can do it on our own. So if you just look at the list there, you'll see Crosswalk has mentioned the Climate Mayors Network has mentioned WashU has been a tremendous help. Republic Waste has been too. We work with a lot of different people and they ask us for help and we try to give it where we can. They ask us for information or connections. We try to do that. And in turn, they give us a lot of good help and advice too. So that's kind of what I had prepared. I will say we're working on a couple of other things, but you'll see more of those when we're ready to present them to you because I want to take them to a couple of other committees before it comes to the whole Board of Aldermen. But things like maybe Oak Knoll should be an arboretum. Just think about that. Don't do too much about it until we come back. Any questions? Yes.

Thank you, Deb. You always do such a wonderful job.

Thank you very much.

Does anybody have any questions?

How can I not say, I mean, the way you presented tonight is the way everything that you do with this work is done. It's targeted, it's well-informed, and it's so collaborative. Because of all those people. Well, because you know how to access them. And Matt and David and staff help, it has been a pleasure to be on, you know, sitting and be the liaison because everything has a purpose and it has a direction and people come together and support it to move forward. It's just been a whirlwind and it's been great. And again, and something else I think we all have to remember is that a lot of it is education and communication with our neighbors because when people hear what their kids are breathing in, suddenly it matters versus, oh, we have a no emissions policy and suddenly, oh no, this is why we have it or And getting that out is something that you hit on hard all the time as well. So it's just been and will continue to be, I'm sure, something that is so important to all of us. And you're awesome. Thank you. I don't

know about that because it is a whole group effort. I mean, you know, David, I can just look back here. I know I'm going to see Tony and Anna's laughing. Where's Matt? I mean, it's like all the folks on staff. It's everybody on the committee. It's our interns. Our Clayton High School interns did this whole presentation on idling at the schools. We'd love to get it in front of the school board. We're not giving up, even though they have come off the program. It's important. It's important for the students to feel like the work that they did matters because it does matter. So we'll continue with that. I think I saw Jeff, but now Jeff's gone. But anybody who's new or for our new person, we also have a whole big onboarding so that when people are new to the work we do, we try to sit down for an hour less, hopefully less, and just say, here's all the things that we've got so that you can plug in and be an immediate participant. And I also give that pitch to every resident who calls up or that I find out says, Oh, we don't think Clayton's doing anything, because we are. Thank you.

If anymore. We have a few minutes before the seven o'clock meeting. So we'll just take a brief break. And then we'll start up again right at seven. Good evening, everybody. We're going to get started. If you guys want to take a seat. Today is Tuesday, July 22nd. This is our 7 o'clock Board of Aldermen meeting. Madam City Clerk, if you could call the roll.

Alderwoman Buse? Here. Alderwoman Patel? Here. Alderman Gary Feder?

Alderwoman Buse? Here. Alderwoman Patel? Here. Alderman Fader?

Here.

Aldermen Rick Hummell?

Aldermen Hummel?

Here.

Aldern Yorg?

Here.

Mayor Andrew McAndrew, I'm sorry. Here. City Manager David Gipson.

Mayor Andrew McAndrew, I'm sorry. Here. City Manager Gibson.

Here.

City Attorney O'Keefe. Hello. Here. Thank you. Great. Thanks. And then this is the time in our meeting where if anybody wants to address us with any public requests or petitions on an item that's not on our agenda, you are welcome to come up to the podium. Just state your name and your address for the record. And we'll go from there.

Good evening. Thank you for allowing civil discourse and public commentary. My name is Sarah Evans. I live at 7807 Davis Drive in Davis Place. Saturday, I drove by 7811 Clayton Road to see a paper off windows in what appeared to be shelving for a smoke shop. Sunday, I learned that a commercial occupancy permit had been issued to High Life Vape Shoppe. Ironically, this morning, in the top of my news feed, ABC News released an article titled, Inside the Crackdown of a Flashy New Generation of Illicit Vapes Targeting U.S. Teens. The article cited Brian King of tobaccofreekids.org. I reached out to Brian this morning for talking points in preparation for this meeting, and he got back to me immediately. Some of the stats and information woven into my comments today come from that article and organization, which I am happy to furnish following this meeting. My comments today are focused on two points, public health and public safety. The next section we'll call the more you know. There are 39 total vape products authorized by the FDA, all tobacco and menthol flavored. Despite a nationwide prohibition on flavored cartridges imposed by the FDA in 2020, products remain widely available in flavors like Pineapple Express, Pink Lemonade, Killer Custard Blueberry, and Watermelon Bubble Gum. Let's talk about the actual vape, the product. There is a new generation of illicit vaping products largely imported from China that are concealed as headphones, smartphone cases, highlighters, and video game consoles. In the first six months of 2025, Customs and Border Protection seized a domestic value of $60.3 million in electronic nicotine delivery systems, which include vapes. Why is this important to us? It's my understanding that High Life Vape Store, located at 7811 Clayton Road, has been issued a commercial occupancy permit to sell vapes and tobacco products. 7811 Clayton road, for those not familiar with this address, is located next to Expressions Furniture on Clayton Road at Central Avenue and shares an alley with driveways of Davis Place residents. Further, this is the southmost border of Davis Place neighborhood and Central Avenue is the street that leads to the back of Miramac Elementary School where carpool takes place. Clayton Road and Central Avenue is at the intersection of lots of foot traffic, many of whom are children walking to and from school. I am in opposition of High Life Vape Shop opening at this location. If you didn't agree with me yet, it's my understanding that Clayton schools have an issue with vaping. Opening a vape shop proximate to the home of many of these students only exacerbates the problem and normalizes use. Fact, according to the National Youth Tobacco Survey, 22% of e-cigarette users report obtaining e-cigarettes from a vape shop or tobacco shop in the past month. Given the kid-friendly flavors, some products on the market have such nicotine as high as 200 or more cigarettes. Many youth are not just experimenting with e-cigarets but are becoming addicted due to the high nicotine levels. This is a public health concern. As I mentioned, only 39 vape products have been authorized by the FDA for 21 and older users. Whose job is it to monitor and regulate inventory and compliance at High Life Vape Shop? Is it St. Louis County Police? Is it the Division of Alcohol and Tobacco Control? Is it the Clayton Police Department? In Chicago, 4 million vape sticks sit in law enforcement warehouse. In Louisiana, officials have had to drastically increase the capacity of holding facilities where seized products are stored. Focusing our law enforcement on the compliance and regulation and traffic concerns of a vape store embedded in a dense family-oriented neighborhood is not a good use of our public safety resources. This is a public safety concern. I am in opposition of High Life Vape Shop opening at 7811 Clayton Road. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Sarah.

Hello, my name is Yulia Kutets. I live at 7739 Davis Drive. I've been a resident of Davis Place for nearly five years, and tonight I'm going to speak not only as a neighbor, but also as a deeply concerned mother of three students that are currently enrolled in Clayton School District. I have a daughter at each of the school levels, elementary, middle, and high school, and I'm fully invested in their education, health, and well-being. In addition of being a parent, I'm also involved with All In Clayton Coalition, which is an organization that works within our middle school and high school schools to help Clayton youth make healthy choices and reduce, if not prevent, youth substance use. The goals for this coalition is to prevent substance use among Clayton youth, reduce substance use disorders in our community, educate the public on key issues related to substance use and advocate for policies that protect our students and families. One of the most urgent topics that has been coming up in recent years, in addition to marijuana and alcohol, it's been vaping. In 2019, vaping among high schoolers increased by 78% nationally. And since then, it also expanded to middle school use. And I know this as a parent because my kids go to school, my kids see things, they come and tell me things. The research is clear that vaping negatively impacts the developing brains and bodies of teens. Our schools are working hard to combat these issues, educating students, enforcing policies and creating safe, healthy learning environments. Allowing a vape shop to open within walking distance of our schools and homes directly contradicts those efforts. It sends conflicting messages to our youth and undermines the work of educators, counselors, community advocates, and parents who are trying to keep their children safe. So knowing this, why are we considering opening of a vape shop right in the middle of a residential neighborhood? Shouldn't we be encouraging businesses that will reflect family values like ice cream shops, art studios, and other family friendly establishments? As a parent of children who walk to and from school, that play with friends, walk around, I'm very concerned with the presence of this kind of business at the edge of our subdivision. And if we allow this to happen today, what will come in the future? So I respectfully urge you to consider the long-term impact that this decision can have, our property values, community character, but most importantly, the health, safety, and well-being of our children. Thank you.

Good evening, Board of Aldermen. I'm Jessica Dumas. I'm a representative of the Davis Place Trustees. And earlier today, I sent a letter to you and I would like to read that letter to you. Dear members of the Clayton Board of Aldermen, on behalf of the Davis Place Board of Trustees and many of more than 300 households we represent, we are writing to respectfully express our opposition to the proposed permit for a vape retail store to be located adjacent to our residential community on Clayton Road. Our neighborhood is home to hundreds of school-aged children and lies within close walking distance of multiple schools, parks, and recreational facilities. Families in this community have made long-term investments in a neighborhood that prioritizes childhood-focused amenities, quiet streets, healthy lifestyles, safety, and a carefully preserved residential character. While we recognize the legal status of vaping products and support responsible businesses operating in appropriate commercialized zones, locating a vape store directly next to a family-centered residential area raises significant public health and planning concerns. Research shows that proximity to tobacco and vape retailers is associated with a higher likelihood of experimentation and use among minors. In addition, children who live, walk, or play near vape shops are more likely to be exposed to marketing and signage that can normalize vaping and tobacco use. These concerns go beyond aesthetics or traffic. They speak directly to the long-term health and well-being of our young people in our community. Just as liquor stores and cannabis dispensaries are often buffered from school zones and residential neighborhoods, vape retailers should follow similar guidelines that reflect the values and priorities of our family-oriented city. Approving this permit as proposed may also set a precedent for commercial encroachment shift the essential balance between residential and retail uses in Clayton. We urge you, to consider alternative locations better suited to this type of business, ones that maintain clear separation between high traffic retail activity and neighborhoods where children's live and grow. We appreciate your service and thoughtful consideration of how land decisions shape the long-term vitality and identity in Clayton. We stand ready to engage constructively and welcome the opportunity to participate in broader discussions about zoning and neighborhood compatibility. And in conclusion, I'd just like to say I am a resident of Davis Place. I live at 8012 Seminole Drive, and I have a daughter that goes to Clayton High School. Thank you.

I'm short, sorry. I'm Jenny Abeles and I live in Davis Place. I've lived there for 15 years and I have two kids at the high school. And I found out about this today. And I just wanted to come up here and let you guys know that I'm in opposition of the store going in on Clayton Road next to the Davis Place area. I think that my fellow neighbors have done a beautiful job tonight of saying everything that I would like to say too. But the only thing that I would also like to just reiterate is my kids are going to be a junior and a sophomore at the high school. And since kindergarten, they've been instilled in the Clayton School District how bad drugs and alcohol and tobacco are for them. And they both have been involved in the All In Coalition, and they both have been a part of health class where they are told how bad this is for them. And the first thing that I said to them today when I found out is this could possibly go in right down the street. And they're like, why? That's the worst thing that could happen for students and teenagers and young just kids in the area, whether or not they're Clayton School District students or not. And so I just really hope that there's maybe some other consideration that can happen and another potential location for the shop. So thank you very much for everything that you guys do. And thanks for letting me speak.

My name is Tucker Ablees, and I live at 7717 West Biltmore Drive in Davis Place. And as previously mentioned, for the past 10 years, I have learned about the dangers of all alcohol, tobacco, and all drugs in general. And this new vape store right by an elementary school completely contradicts all that I've learned over the past 10 years. So as someone who walks right by that area every single week, I am in complete and utter opposition of this vape store being placed. Thank you.

Thanks.

Hi. My name is Olga Lopukhina. I'm also the resident of Davis Place, where most of us came in right now. We're all here for the same reason, as you all heard. And my family, myself, have been a resident of this beautiful neighborhood for a year. I'm also a mother of three children. young girls, and as many of you and everyone presenting today, we all chose to raise our families in Clayton for the reason. We want to have great school, walking beautiful streets. We know it's safe. My kids spend their days outside playing, riding their bikes. they go into their friends' houses, they share snacks, they play games. That's the community where relationships and healthy habits are built from early ages. The schools has been already addressed, teaching those right habits, teaching those healthy habits and the lifestyles, active lifestyles with access to the parks, with access to the playgrounds. That's the morality that we're imposing on our kids. When I've heard about opening the vape shop at that place, 7811 Clayton Road, I personally, my family, everyone in my family participated, everyone I know, strongly opposing that decision that had been put in place. As you already heard, statistics and the records and everything that's been indicated previously by beautiful adults done in research and parents and people who are invested in this community, I only can add that our kids are They're going to inherit what we're going to show them. They are sponges, and those healthy habits are important. So allowing opening the vape shop is only going to impose on our kids unhealthy. Smoking and vaping, like we're teaching them in schools, don't do that. Personally, just a small, you know, I want to add to that, that independent public health studies have shown, including an alarming pattern, that the closer vape retailers are to where children live and go to school, the higher the rates of e-cigarettes to be used among those teens, right? And the reason, like Sarah already mentioned, it's their sweet flavoring, the advertising, the marketing that the job's done. Those jobs create beautiful marketing to attract our teens, our young, beautiful mind. We teach them to be curious. They are curious about everything, including the things that are not healthy for them. And that would only influence... their intention to go and seek the interest of that unfortunately not healthy habits. So I live in Davies Place. We moved here for a reason, for the Clayton to be healthy, family valued community. We oppose opening that shop, strongly suggest everyone who have not spoken yet, speak up, share with your neighbors, talk to your friends, hear their opinion, what they can tell you, what they can say. spread out the word, the more of us, you know, we, we need to educate our neighbors. We need you to get our kids. We need to educate each other as our neighbors in Davis place do. Thank you. Thank you.

Anyone else? Well, I just want to say thank you to everybody. You guys all did a beautiful job. I want to say that we hear you. This is a bit unfortunate in that in commercial areas throughout Clayton, there's a long list of retail establishments that can exist in Clayton. Tobacco is one. item on that very long, long list. So unfortunately opening a tobacco shop in much the same way that we have a pipe shop down the street, there's also a cigar shop in downtown Tobacco and selling it is a permitted use in Clayton right now. So there's not very much that we can do about this particular establishment. However, I think going forward, I at least would like staff to explore ways that we can limit this kind of use in certain areas. But unfortunately, I believe at this point, just because it is a permitted use right now in our code. And that's one of the reasons that all of you were not notified about it. You know, when stores move in that are permitted in Clayton, you know, we don't hear about it. I learned about this vaping shop from one of your neighbors who texted me Monday morning. And I said, I this is the first time hearing about it. I did not know about it. So I just want you to know that I hear you. I also have three children that are 18 and under, so I understand all of your concerns very deeply. I don't know if anybody else on the board would like to comment, but I do sincerely appreciate all of you coming and speaking to us this evening.

I have a couple questions. You go ahead. I think this might be a question for the chief, and we've talked about programs that the city has that are... police department is involved in where young people go in to try to buy alcohol without an ID and see if they are permitted to make that purchase. And I'm wondering if we can or could, that strikes me as something that we can or could do for sure for any place selling tobacco also.

I think that's part of the All In Coalition, but yeah.

Sure. Yeah. We partner with the All In Coalition to do these. For the alcohol purchases, we do it several times a year. And that's definitely something we can explore. I was going to actually, as the discussion was going on, I was thinking about that myself. So we'll look into that.

Yeah, I think we have some stuff happening already that we could probably expand upon to try to address some of the concerns. The other question I had, because somebody mentioned what the signs would look like and it would create this sense of normal, of... And we have pretty tight sign restrictions, I think. Like that's the sense I have of our community. And so I'm curious and what the... ability is, you know, like our liquor, I mean, we have liquor stores, there's a liquor store less than a 10th of a mile from the location of this vape shop. So, um, you know, we are already selling products that are not healthy for our kids or us and it's okay. I guess we do it, but like the liquor stores don't have, you know, they're not full of be your neon signs or anything like that. Is there any things staff can share about like what signage will be allowed?

Yes, so our sign regulations are not dictated based on what the sign says. So this use type would be regulated just like any other retail type. But they will have to get a sign permit for any permanent signage. I just checked we don't have any sign permits that have been issued to them currently. But we do restrict so there'll be permanent signage such as a wall sign that you might see. So that would be permitted. We also have pretty strict regulations on temporary signage. or the amount of signage that they could put in a window. So that's why a lot of our packaged liquor stores or our convenience stores, like the CVS down the street, that's why you don't see a lot of the windows covered with a bunch of different on sale now or buy this case of beer type advertisements. It's not because of what those are saying. It's just the sign type itself is not allowed. So that's something that we'll explore once they apply for their sign permits, but they'll be restricted just like any other retail business on the block is.

Thank you. That's all I had on up, but there wouldn't be any reason like that, you know, even though you have to be 21 to purchase tobacco. There wouldn't be any other reason, you know, unlike I think it in like in a dispensary for instance there's a security guard that doesn't let people in. There's no, there's not any indication that the store would have something like that.

We don't have requirements on how they manage and operate their security like we do for a dispensary. So I haven't had any conversations with this owner on what they plan to do. We do have requirements that they have assigned posted about not allowing the sale to individuals under the age of 21. So there are certain items like that that could be enforced through our regulations by our police department. But as far as a zoning review, when their occupancy permit was issued – Because it's just a permitted use under that general retail category, we didn't get into the specifics to review security plans the way we do with the dispensary.

And can you just update everybody just how far down, like along on the process they are?

Sure. So I believe today they applied for their business license. They were previously issued their commercial occupancy permit. That's required. We won't issue a business license unless they have an occupancy permit. So a few years ago, I believe it was sometime in 2023 is when this property was originally acquired. looked at for this use they applied for a commercial occupancy permit at that time and then chose not to pursue occupancy and a little bit later they came back and did some minor work with the ceiling and installed the shelving units etc once all that work was finished we completed our inspection for the occupancy permit we're basically just checking to make sure that they meet our occupancy standards in our code so that the building you know it exit emergency exits are, are okay. There's not any safety issues with the flooring, the windows, the doors work, there's smoke detectors, et cetera. So that was all passed. Um, but we don't have any other permitting requirements or review. They could just fill the store at this point and start operating it once they get their business license.

Thank you. Does anybody else have any, I do question for Anna too,

or maybe while she's up here, it might be for chief, but I, my, my questions are very similar to yours for this store. I don't I don't know that we can currently do anything. And so the next step is how do you regulate it? I know with bars selling alcohol, we instituted something requiring training of the people dispensing it. This is retail. And if there is a violation, Becky asked about selling underage. If there is a violation what are the consequences under our current ordinances and regulations. Is it something that hits on their permit, their occupancy permit? Is there a fine or some other consequence?

Last thing before you start on that. Unless you know it. Unless you know it already.

I think we've actually discussed this. I don't believe, David, there isn't state-level training like there is for alcohol sales.

There's not a state-level training that I'm aware of. So we have a progressive fine amount in here. It looks like the current penalties, if you violate that section, sell to a minor. The first offense is a ticket at $25. Then the second is a $100 ticket. The third is $250, which is the state maximum for that type of violation. So we actually couldn't put in anything higher than $250. So I know that may sound low to some folks, but we're actually capped by state law at what we can find people. It does say, though, that an owner of any establishment where tobacco products exist Vapor products is specifically listed here who violate subsection C, should not be penalized pursuant to this section if the person documents the following and that they have an employee training program in place, a signed statement by the employee that the employee has been trained and understands state laws, and that in-house compliance training meets the minimum training criteria established by the drug and alcohol tobacco control. So that's something we can look into potentially to see if there's something there. But That's what we have in place right now. And that violation section really mirrors what you see in a lot of our penalty sections throughout the municipal code.

And does it affect their occupancy permit at all if it's a repeated violation or not?

Their occupancy permit wouldn't be impacted by this, but a business license does have a provision that allows for if they are violating other ordinances adopted by the city, then potentially issuing a new business license. And if they don't have a business license, then that would essentially not allow them to operate. Very helpful. Thank you.

If the training we're doing for the sale of alcohol is to help staff identify folks, like look for people who have a legal ID that identifies them as 21 years old. And I didn't know that was the smoking age now, but apparently it is. could we not require that same training? Even though it was developed for alcohol, we could theoretically create, just like we passed an ordinance like that for liquor, perhaps we could do that also. Yeah,

I mean, the training was all online. I mean, it was relatively...

There is, through the, I believe it's the FDA, there is some training for, it's free voluntary trainings. It's not exactly the same, but for tobacco sales. So there's probably options, just like with the zoning side of things, we'll have to vet Some of these options out there before we would pass what specifically would want to apply for us

we'll do that research before we have further discussion on it so we're going to look at what could potentially be done from a zoning standpoint, but also a compliance standpoint

right.

Gary.

Well, this one is literally and figuratively close to home because I'm a 38-year resident of Davis Place and I live on Central. So I am very close to this corner. And it's regrettable that I think we are in a situation where we can't really do much about this particular use. I did talk to Sarah Evans and told her my thoughts on this. But recognizing there probably wasn't much to do about it, I strongly suggested she show up anyway and bring others with her because I think it is important for citizens to come to these meetings and let us know what they're thinking. I appreciate the comment from one of our trustees about wanting to be more involved in zoning and neighborhood compatibility and i think this is a good example of how if nothing else it'll generate a lot of thought about how we deal with these things in the future and so coming to city hall um is is definitely something worth doing um as i said to sarah the frustrating part here is that in zoning you're either condition you're either a permitted use or occasionally your conditional use if you're conditional then you do have to come before planning a zoning and eventually before the Board of Aldermen, and things like public health and public safety then become issues. But this is not one of those, and I am curious whether perhaps there's some amendment to our zoning ordinance, particularly dealing not so much with tobacco but with the whole vaping industry, that maybe that could be a basis for a conditional use permit for any future use. so that at least these kinds of issues would actually be in front of us um so i hope i hope that uh i hope the the residents and as another as a davis place resident myself i hope this is not a too disappointing a a response it is the best we can do to the extent we are controlled by state law um I took some pleasure in finding out, I think, that under the state law, the age limitation is 18 for vaping products. And actually, our ordinance is stricter than that, unfortunately, since the penalties are relatively minor here. it may not make a lot of difference, but hopefully we can enforce this and keep a close eye on this particular business. And I hope maybe take a look at how we can change our ordinances, particularly our zoning ordinances, so that perhaps this would be treated if there is another applicant in the future. Thank you.

Thank you. Alderman Rick Hummell?

Thank you. Alderman Hummel?

Yeah, I want to follow up on Gary's last comment as a point of reference. I know that there are I believe it's under state law, there are restrictions on some businesses like marijuana dispensaries from being located X amount of feet from a school or other types of facilities. My question is, does the city have the authority to restrict businesses from being located near schools? As an example, do we have the legal standing to do that? Could we modify our ordinances in the future?

That's something we'll take a look at. You have to have a rational basis for doing so. So if you were to have some sort of restriction that's a radius or something else, we would have to establish through studies or viable reports that there's whatever negative impact there is we're seeking to mitigate. In this particular case, something that would make a rational basis argument difficult for this spot. So you had a radius within a certain number of feet is the fact that there's a store across the street that's operating already, the BP that sells vaping products, that it would be hard to argue that it's had a negative impact on those neighborhoods. We would have to demonstrate that that has occurred. So when we start to talk about the radius, we need to think about what the rational basis might be. So as we think about zoning and we have those conversations as staff, rather than going for something like a buffer of 500 feet or something like that, I think it's probably going to go the route of let's identify the areas where we think this is appropriate and hone in on those particular zoning districts for it. You know, the conditional use is another thing that we can talk about, but as we've talked about with conditional uses before, a conditional use is... basically expected to be permitted, we can just add conditions on it to mitigate harm. It's not necessarily an opportunity to deny that particular use. So we'll have these conversations when we bring it back, but we're already giving these things some thought. But on the buffer, it gets tricky when you have to meet that rational basis requirement.

Thank you. My other question, I believe one of the residents brought this up, was regarding regulation enforcement compliance. Who is responsible if the business is somehow violating the business license? And so where I'm asking this is there was a story. on TV news last night about a vape shop in Breckenridge Hills that was selling THC infused products that exceeded the state limits. And so I know that the city police were involved, but I don't know if any other agencies are involved. So how does that work?

Chief, I might have to lean on you for that one. So If there's a violation of a state law or a federal requirement as it relates to THC or those types of things, is that something we would enforce? Would we bring in those state or federal control agencies to monitor that?

Yeah, I think it would be much like we do with the alcohol violations. We could issue a summons to the clerk and the manager of the store for selling to a minor.

But if they're selling illegal products.

Oh, illegal products. Yes. Yes. So that would definitely involve an investigation. But yeah, we would enforce that.

So that's under our enforcement as well. And I know that we actively have programs to go to, I think, certainly bars. Maybe it's any vendor of alcohol. Do we have any programs for the sale of tobacco? No, we have not. We have not done that. Okay.

Chief, but in terms of monitoring to make sure they're not selling products, how does that – I mean, there's nobody going in, I guess. I mean, are there state agencies that go into these places to check and see what they're –

You know, not that I'm aware of. I would say that a lot of times when we receive tips about that kind of information, and then we work off that to develop our investigation, and then I would imagine a case like this, partner with agencies that deal with us on a regular basis, whether that's a federal agency or a state-level agency.

Thank you. Sure. Come on up. All right.

I had no intention to speak, but I felt the need to address specifically David's comments and some of the questions around training. My name is Michael Wall. I'm a member of Davis Place. I'm really just here for support, but I'm also a professor at WashU. And in my expertise, I spend a lot of time on marketing. And what I can tell you is I think contextually we have to really – let me say it in a different way because I'm not prepared in terms of talking points. I love the fact that you're open to calling for some investigation on how we might be able to do better in the future. This is a huge fail. This is predatory marketing. This is not a tobacco shop. This is a vape shop, and it is severely, severely damaging as it relates to the potential it can have on our kids. Smash and grabs. There's no cash anymore in retailers. These types of locations are prime real estate. How much crime do we experience on the other side of Clayton Road as it relates to The Metrolink. How often are we seeing it in the last several years, it making its way into Clayton? What just happened last weekend? This is a serious matter. And in terms of legal justification, we can always find legal justification. It's our community and we can set laws. And so I respect and appreciate this idea of training, but let's welcome ourselves a little bit to the real world. There is very little oversight that can be had as it relates to what they're doing inside their retail location. Very little. And there is so much research on this. So whatever happened for this to go through cannot happen again. So what I'm encouraging is really an autopsy, an audit of how this occurred, new processes put in place to make sure it doesn't happen again. I mean, this is a fail. And I'm saying it in a constructive way because I love this community. You always agree to meet with us. You're open-minded. You care about it. I know you all care. But I just want to make sure and go on the record, this idea of training or legal justifications, like this is ridiculous. It is a vape shop. To compare it to the cigar shop in downtown Clayton or compare it to a gas station BP, it is not even close. The marketing that they do, their entire industry is predicated on hitting children. That's it. So this is not too dissimilar to other industries that if you thought of the shop that would open up, you would be horrified and disgusted. It is teetering the line between those types of establishments and a traditional tobacco shop. So I just want to make sure, and my intent for coming up here is that the attitude and tone should not be flippant. And the seriousness should be taken very, very seriously because I have tons of research and tons of data. And I've shared it on what makes communities thrive or die. And this is not something that should be a discussion of Clayton, Missouri. Absolutely not. This should be a discussion about hometown that I grew up in, in Chicago that I couldn't wait to get out of. But we're at a different level here. We need to up our game. So that's all I wanted to share because it's that serious. And I didn't intend to get emotional, but thinking about those kids, seeing this signage and the word of mouth is going to happen. You don't think these kids talk? I was 18 too. I got my hands on alcohol when I was 18. I got my hand on drugs and cigarettes when I was 18 because you're an 18, you're 16, you're 17. You don't know any better. Luckily 40 years have passed and we've gotten smarter and So please, please, please, let's just do an audit to figure out how this happened. Let us hope, like many other retail locations, it just can't be denied that it goes out of business as quickly as possible because it creates a very real threat to our community. And if there's a smash and grab that takes place and they're making their way through Merrimack and Davis Place to get out, I want us to remember this conversation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Thank you, everybody. Yeah, I just want to thank everybody. Actually, I'm sorry, Jeff. Yes, I apologize. I know you're on Zoom. Go ahead.

No, it's fine. I got one administrative question and one kind of larger kind of legal question. Administratively, how would they lose their business license? If they violated the ordinances enough times, would it trigger us to pull the license? Like if we were able to catch 15 underage kids buying in the shop, would that be enough? Like how does that process work to pull it?

uh if this is uh kevin o'keefe it's an administrative process there is an administrative hearing it's subject to review by the courts so that is a record would be made including what is the evidence what we'd have to the city would have the burden of establishing that a the business was operating in violation of the law and or in a manner that constitutes a nuisance, that evidence would have to be presented. That evidence would be subject to cross-examination and challenge that licensee would have an opportunity to present evidence. It would be adjudicated as an administrative proceeding and then subject to review by the circuit court. Okay.

Um, How do we know, and maybe this is just set legal that I'm just not aware of, how do we know that a vape shop is equated to a tobacco shop under the law? And I ask because if I look, unless I missed it in our ordinance, it lists out a bunch of options that are permitted uses, including tobacco. But who's to say that a vape job equals tobacco shop under the laws?

Again, if that's directed to me, I think that the vape, I believe, and we have to take a look at that, but I believe that the similarities, both in the manner of consumption and the manner of delivery of the product, in the chemical composition of the product in large part, primarily the nicotine component, that there is sufficient similarity that they would fall within the broad definition that's currently in place. Okay.

Within the tobacco section of our ordinances, we regulate vapor products right along with alternative nicotine products and tobacco products. So as Kevin stated, although it doesn't specifically list it there, what you're looking at within the tobacco section of the code, it lists them, really they're all in the same.

Okay, thank you.

Thanks, Jeff. Anybody else?

Is the

microphone on? It is. I'm just a little taller. So one of our neighbors brought this to my attention just now on the Missouri Department of Public Safety Alcohol and Tobacco Control website under their FAQs. It says, how old do you have to be to sell tobacco or vaping products? Answer, in Missouri there is no minimum age requirement to sell tobacco or

Excuse me. I'm not certain, but I have to take a look. I don't want to guess.

Okay. So my encouragement, along with what Michael said, is you could have kids who talk, who are very influential in their schools, who work at this vape shop, okay? And they go back and they have conversations. And if it is not regulated, Chief Smith, my understanding is if it's outside of the doors, they'll protect and they'll do something. But inside, who is testing the chemical composition of the materials, right? Who is there to say this is not a cannabis product, this is a tobacco product, this falls in one of the 39 federally allowed products being sold, okay? That's a big concern of mine. The second that Michael also touched on is the visual impact that this is going to have. Right now it sounds like we're thinking we can't do anything. I don't agree with that. Okay, you still have opportunities in the signage. Okay, you see cannabis shops all over. There are other communities right around the corner who have allowed those who require frosting in their windows. This is, if you don't know the location, floor to ceiling windows. It used to be a salon. That was great when it was a salon. It's great marketing and great advertising. People can see right inside and see what's happening. You have the opportunity to put frosting in these glasses. If you have not driven by... There is shelving that hits about six feet high that these products will be displayed on like a candy shop. They are very colorful. You don't know, I recommend going into one of these just for your own education. They're very colorful, they're very attractive. They're gonna pull people in off the street because that is what they are designed and intended to do. So as our board and as our government, is there something you can do with the signage and what the visual impact looks like from the outside in? I would prompt you and implore you to consider those things. I agree there needs to be further look at the transparency between how businesses get permitted and more scrutiny behind some of the zoning that we're working with. So thank you again for your time. We are over the comment period tonight, so I appreciate the extra time. Thank you.

Bridget, I have one more question, if I may.

Yeah, go

ahead. David and Kevin, just for the sake of everybody's, both the audience and for us, information, if as a city we decided to not grant them the business permit, what happens after that? Do they appeal to that? Do they have to go to court for that?

I would expect it would proceed to court.

Okay. And then we would have to prove what, as opposed to what they would have to prove.

It depends on what the court action is.

Okay.

If it is a proceeding under 42 USC 1983 civil rights law, The burden would be on the plaintiff to establish that their constitutional rights were violated in order to obtain damages against the city and its officials. Okay.

And if they didn't follow that route, what would be the other route? And I don't want to put you on the spot if it's something you need to look at. I'm just... I'm trying to get clarity for all of us as to what the reality is, whether it's whether to quote some it's a fail or not a fail. The reality is this is where we're at. And if we decided to not issue it, I know we have to have a good reason for that. I just don't I just wasn't clear as to what the the fallout or the the legal proceedings would be after that, presuming they wanted to do that.

And I'd be happy to address that in such measure of detail and in such forum as the board would prefer. Okay.

Okay. Thank you, Kevin.

Again, I just want to thank everybody for coming up and speaking today. As we've all talked about, we do intend to look at this in fine ways. Michael, as you said, for doing better in the future. I absolutely appreciate and understand that. I wish I could have anticipated this type of business. applying or at least, you know, being present near your homes. I think all of you know, I don't live that far away. All of my children went to Merrimack. So, you know, perhaps I wish we would have anticipated this. But this is, you know, the first application we've gotten in Clayton for this type of business. So again, we do plan to look at it. I am happy to let Sarah for sure and the trustees know when we bring it up for a discussion. Thank you. Alrighty. Um, the first item on our agenda is the consent agenda. Um, does anybody have any comments related to that?

Yeah, I, I do. I don't know if I pull it from the consent. I think it's staying in the consent agenda, but I, um, had asked about the lighting for the Shaw Park Tennis Center with the dark skies goals that we have. And I want to make sure that we're acting consistently with that long-term vision.

I think I asked about that at the Parks and Rec meeting. Didn't we talk about it?

No, great question. Thank you. So we are following all of the best practices for dark sky compliance with the hopes that each lighting project that we do will be more compliant. The issue really in this case specifically relates to sports lighting projects. facilities with sports lighting. So with sports lighting in particular, and Shaw Park then is a whole different ball of wax because it has so many sports lighting facilities. So for sports lighting, for dark sky compliance, you have to, there's five things you have to follow. You have to minimize the neighborhood light spill, which we believe we are doing. You have to manage the high angle glare to again, avoid any light trespass and sky glow effects. We believe we're doing that. You have to mandate curfew requirements, which we are because we have park hours. And then you have to promote best lighting practices by minimizing the lumen densities, which reduces energy consumption. So the fifth point that is kind of the sticking point is that you have to limit the class of play to recreational levels. So Our intention is to do all of the best practices. And then I guess when we get to the point that we are redoing the lighting at Shaw Park pool, and then subsequently all of the ball fields, we would then need to have a bigger conversation about, are we limiting play to just recreational? Because right now we do have competitive, we have the Shaw Park CSP swim meet that's competitive. Clayton High School has competitive sports at the tennis center and at the ball fields. And then we have, but not quite as much this year, we have hosted competitive collegiate tennis matches at Shaw Park Tennis Center. So we would really have to, I guess, delve into that last and final thing for the sports lighting to be approved.

Okay. My understanding, in part perhaps with our WashU conversations on those fields and dark sky compliance over there, are you saying that we can't, that to comply with dark skies requirements, it has to only be recreational use, that there's no lighting that meets competitive use standards?

That's what it says on the Dark Sky Sports Complex Outdoor Sports Lighting Program website. I took it directly from their website today.

Okay. Because my concern, obviously meeting that goal would be phenomenal. And then I also just making sure that if we're investing this kind of money in this now and trying to increase our compliance in the future, that we're not, that we're investing smartly. Yes. That we're playing it forward to continually increase versus investing in something that we're going to then tear out when things, you know, if there's a comes a time in the near future that we can.

We are designing everything that we're talking about for all of our lighting projects. We are designing them to be dark sky compliant to meet their best practices. So the lumens, like we were talking about, the anti-glare, those things, we are doing that based on the dark sky best practices. I guess it's really just specifically when it comes to Shaw Park, I think that's going to be a pretty big challenge because there are so many sports facilities there, which would be the pool, the tennis center, could possibly be in the new facility that we would have, and all of the ball fields. But once those lighting, in my opinion, and what we have discussed in the department is once those facilities, their lighting is due to be replaced or upgraded or what have you, it would be based on dark sky compliance recommendations. Best practices up to the point of the whole competitive games because that's what

you cannot have competitive lighting and qualify as dark sky

that's what it says on their website yes

what does it mean um because you actually described that we are having competitive use somebody competes at whether it's the high school or a college at the tennis center are you designed does the lighting get designed differently because of that

The fixtures, yes, they would be brighter. If you would... We've heard complaints for years about the tennis center that it didn't fully illuminate every corner of every court at the tennis center. Yes, for... best practices, I guess, for just sports lighting, not anything about dark sky would be to have that court or that field fully illuminated without any consideration to anything dark sky, without any consideration to light spill into the neighborhoods. It's really about lighting that facility as good as possible. And does it overspill into something else? Maybe, but that's not The priority would be to give that field or court the most light.

But I feel like what you describe in the first four criteria is like i mean we are going to light the full court yes and we are going to control the light spill and the lumens and

all of that yes it's more about shielding um those lights and um shielding to prevent any more light spill. And the lumens that you use are more blue, so they have less light spill. I can't remember if they're not as hot or not as cold, one of the two. Yes, we are asking them to do everything that is dark sky compliant with the exception of the elimination of competitive games, which the light designer, the lighting consultant wouldn't, that wouldn't be under their purview.

Yeah. I mean, that's like the use, not the lighting. So like Yeah, that seems weird. That's a weird, like I'm confused about why that would be a requirement of the dark sky thing. So the bottom line is it sounds like we're doing what we should be doing. It

specifically says it limits the class of play to recreational levels, thus discouraging over lighting practices. Oh,

I was washing. Yeah, that's they weren't going to

be able to. I cannot. Okay. I

can't speak to

that.

Sorry. Thank you. All right. Thank you.

Anybody else? Does anybody else have any questions on the consent agenda?

I move that we approve the consent agenda. Second. Any discussion?

Alderman Buse? Aye. Alderman Vettel? Aye. Aldermen Gary Feder?

Alderman Buse? Aye. Alderman Vettel? Aye. Aldermen Fader?

Aye.

Aldeman Rick Hummell? Aye. Mayor McAndrew?

Aldeman Hummel? Aye. Mayor McAndrew?

Aye. Thank

you. Don't forget about Jeff.

Oh, I'm sorry. Aye.

The next item on our agenda is an intergovernmental agreement for firearms qualifications. The city manager will report.

Yes, there's a new facility that opened up in St. Charles County. This is the Center for Advanced Skills and Law Enforcement. This is an intergovernmental subdivision that was formed that runs this facility, much like the fire training facility that we just broke ground on only for law enforcement. So they have a number of different rifle ranges, pistol ranges. They have different simulators, and it's really just an all-encompassing state-of-the-art facility for law enforcement. And this agreement here would allow us to utilize that particular facility, and in particular, utilize the range there when we need to do qualifications. So being that they are a governmental subdivision, this requires an intergovernmental agreement that's approved by ordinance. And there was a fee schedule that was attached. We don't have an exact dollar amount because the dollar amount will be dictated by the number of hours that we use the facility, but this agreement would give us access. So we recommend approval of the ordinance.

Thank you. I'll open the discussion. Does anybody have any questions in regards to this?

That was my question. Are you going to... Just that... we're not impacting the budget or approving the use of funds with tonight's approval, but there would be a line item in the budget submission that's for training. Obviously, we don't necessarily see that level of detail, but you would be

budgeting that. Yeah, within our training budget, we have a certain amount allocated for this exact type of training. This would just allow us to use that facility and establishes the rates that we would pay on an hourly basis.

How do we get this training now, and how do the rates compare?

Here comes the chief.

We've actually been using O'Fallon's range for several years, but now they're requiring a user agreement. But the reason we use the range is because with our pistol qualification, we have a maximum yardage of 25 yards. The range here in Clayton that we have at the public works garage only goes to 20. So we've had to use different agency firearms ranges actually throughout my whole career here. So we just found, we've landed on O'Fallon because they have a newer up-to-date range and they have more openings as opposed to the St. Louis County range out in Fenton. Yeah.

Okay, we've already been incurring the costs. It's new for us to have this like higher level agreement over how we do it. Okay,

thank you. It's roughly $4,500. Yeah, thanks.

Alderman Jeffery Yorg, did you have any questions?

Alderman York, did you have any questions?

Yeah, part of it was what Becky was already covering. But I guess the other point I would just say is I like seeing that we're doing this because it's another way that we can show we're working with other municipalities and not have to build our own, but we actually take advantage of what's there. So to me, it's an ultimate cost savings because we don't have to build it and we just pay them when we need it. So thank you guys for searching that up. Otherwise, everything else has been answered.

I'll introduce bill number 7077, approving an intergovernmental agreement for use of training facilities of the Center for Advanced Skills in Law Enforcement to be read for the first time by title only.

Second. Any discussion? Mr. City Attorney?

Bill number 7077, first reading, an ordinance approving an intergovernmental agreement for use of training facilities of the Center for Advanced Skills in Law Enforcement.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? All the women abused?

I move that the board give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of bill number 7077 on the day of its introduction.

Second. All those in favor?

Aye.

The opposed? Let the minutes reflect that the board has given unanimous consent.

Introduce bill number 7077, approving an intergovernmental agreement for use of training facilities at the Center for Advanced Skills in Law Enforcement to be read for the second time by title only.

Second. Any discussion? Mr. City Attorney?

Bill number 7077, second reading and consideration for adoption. An ordinance approving an intergovernmental agreement for the use of training facilities of the Center for Advanced Skills in Law Enforcement.

Alderman Buse? Aye. Alderman Patel? Aye. Aldeman Gary Feder?

Alderman Buse? Aye. Alderman Patel? Aye. Aldeman Fader?

Aye.

Aldman Rick Hummell? Aye. Aldaman Yorg? Aye. Mayor McAndrew? Aye. Thank you.

Aldman Hummel? Aye. Aldaman Yorg? Aye. Mayor McAndrew? Aye. Thank you.

Great, the next item on our agenda is related to our future rebuild of Whiteown Boulevard.

Yes, so this has been a big topic of conversation within the community. When we had the May 16th tornado, obviously there was a significant impact to Whiteown Boulevard, especially the area that was east of University Drive to the city limits. And so we've engaged Lochmuller who we have on contract already. They're an on-call landscape architect for us. We had them put together a proposal that would... Basically tasked them with putting together three concept sketches that we could then take to the Community each sketch would show a different level of improvement or restoration on why down so that we can get Community feedback. And then we would use that feedback, we would engage landscape architect to do the actual construction design at that point and then move on with the replanting and the restoration of that particular area. But this is going to kind of give us those initial concepts that people can react to and comment on. So this contract here would be $30,000. You can see on the RFPA exactly what that would provide for us, which again is the three concept designs, the renderings for those options, and then cost estimates. And they would also attend public meetings, which would be great. That's something we've talked about doing. So we have two project meetings that would be with staff. And then the one larger Community meeting that would probably take on more of an open house format, where we could receive feedback so that's our plan at this point in time and they could mobilize fairly quickly on this, so we can get that process moving. We do recommend approval of this ordinance.

Great Thank you i'll open the discussion does anybody have any questions or comments. Can you clarify whether that

public meeting is before they deliver the concepts or after? It

would be after. Okay. So the three concepts are what we would take feedback on. We'll also use engageclayton.com.

Yeah.

So we'll fire that up again and put those options out for public display. Okay.

And the idea is they have, from what we asked them and like our comprehensive plan and livable communities master plan, we've got a lot of public information already. You're probably going to have a

concept that's put back what was there. And then you'll have one that's more art heavy and one that's going to be...

Well, so that's actually what my other question was. The description they give of the three concepts is... put what's there, do a mid range cost and a high range cost. It's not necessarily about like the concept being different. So I'm interested in that. What we think we've set as an expectation or what we might expect in terms of like the incorporation of the the things that they've listed i mean is the idea that they're going to try to incorporate all of the components or many in alignment with uh i guess would that

be as you ramp up the cost yeah ramp up really hardscape and art are the two things that that cost the most when you do these so um you know expect sketch one to be exactly what you saw out there Two would probably be more landscape heavy than what we had out there previously, maybe a little bit of hardscape. And then three would be something that had a lot more hardscape and art really a pretty big transformation for that area.

Okay. And the one thing that I thought of that, I don't know if we've talked about explicitly, but used to be on our list of approved projects with CCF is the solar trees project. Solar trees, we all remember what those are. The things that can capture electricity and provide people a place to charge devices or plug things in or whatever. So that was just something I thought of. I don't know how we still, if that's still like on an approved project list and how that would

work. I'd have to check with them or consult with the project list, but it's not something we've talked about in some time.

Can I add on that a little bit? When you say restore to what it was, there's a lot of different conversations. One, like Deb even brought up today, is more of an arboretum type, I guess, of diversity and natives and all that kind of stuff. When you say return to what it was...

trees and maybe a little bit of low level landscaping.

As far as the trees

go, I mean, we're not going to get into on the concept level exactly what types of trees are going to be planted there. You know, we'll show canopies generally. When we get into the more intense design, then at that point in time, we'll call out specific species and we'll figure out how far we're going to push that, what that mix is going to look like.

Thank you.

I just want to clarify, if I understand it, Lockmiller role is to come up with concepts. Once that has been determined, we would then seek out qualified landscape architects to actually implement the plan.

Is that the way that works? So we'll get feedback on concepts one, two, and three. That will give us a general sense of what our appetite is as far as cost is concerned and what the community wants to see as far as the level of restoration is. and then we would task another landscape architect. We would put out an RFQ, select a landscape architect, and then they would put together the actual construction drawings because it's not just landscaping and hardscape. We also have to figure out what the irrigation layout is gonna be. We're gonna have to figure out how the street lighting's gonna work and all the electric that goes along with that. So when you get into the construction drawings, there's a lot more to it than you might think just looking at what was out there previously.

And one more on timing. In the letter they put together on schedule, it talks about meeting a deadline for the city's disaster recovery funding application. So I take it that sort of that's an understanding that some of these expenses are part of the FEMA application. Is that correct? And others, I think we've talked about down the road probably are

not. That's correct. So they won't pay for any kind of replanting or anything else, but the street lighting and the irrigation are both items that would be reimbursable. Um, so we do want to have some sense of, of what kind of costs may be incurred and this is going to generate that for us. Okay. Thank

you.

Um, so going back to, um, process when these, um, um, John Potter, reports or concepts are completed, will it do contemplate bringing this to the board for us to just make sure we want to present all three of them to the Community, or do we want to go straight to the Community have we thought about that.

leave that up to the board. I think our intention was probably just to go straight to the community with the different options, but if you'd like to look at it first, then we can do that.

Generally, I'd be fine with that. My only concern is like in the case of Shaw Park, if they came back with a proposal or a concept that was either significantly odd or expensive or something, I'd like the opportunity to say maybe we shouldn't include that because people might think, what are we thinking? Sure. And then are we going to give them, maybe this is too minor of a detail, but are we giving them any kind of constraints regarding these concepts? And so an example of that constraint would be, you know, don't locate trees right on the curb like they've done in the past and then they grow into the street. Maybe that's too detailed, but are there any constraints like that?

we've had that conversation in our initial meeting. That was something that was brought up, was the proximity of those trees to the edge. Another thing we brought up is that we don't want any sort of sidewalk or permanent walkway down the middle of this. To do that, you have to meet all the ADA requirements that would require curb ramps on and off these islands and also the other sides of the street on Y-Down. We don't want anything that's that intense. So we did give them some general guardrails as far as that's concerned. Okay,

great. Thank you.

And they were, I mean, they were proactive in them saying, and you know, no trees next to the curb. So I mean, as obviously as professionals, they understood that that would not be a good idea. So Alderman Yorg, any questions?

No, no questions. Just a thanks to the staff for moving this along as fast as they have. I think we first started talking about this at the retreat and the fact that we already have something like this set up and looking to have stuff by the end of September. I think will make the residents feel good that we actually are moving this forward because I know for obvious reasons it's really important to a lot of them. So thank you all. That's all I got.

Thank you.

I'll do an abuse. I'll introduce bill number seven zero seven eight approving a task force with Locke Mueller group, Inc. For white on Boulevard concept planning to be read for the first time by title only. Second. Any

discussion? Mr. City attorney.

Bill number seven zero seven, eight first reading an ordinance approving a task order with Locke Miller group incorporated for white on Boulevard. Concept planning.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? I move that the board give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of bill number 7078 on the day of its introduction.

All those in favor. Aye. Any opposed. Let the minutes reflect that the board has given unanimous consent.

I introduce bill number 7078 approving a task force order with Locke Mueller group incorporated for white on Boulevard concept planning to be read for the second time by title only. Second. Any discussion? Mr. City Attorney?

Bill number 7078, second reading and consideration for adoption, an ordinance approving a task order with Lockmiller Group Incorporated for White Elm Boulevard concept planning.

Alderman Buse? Aye. Alderman Patel? Aye. Aldeman Gary Feder?

Alderman Buse? Aye. Alderman Patel? Aye. Aldeman Fader?

Aye.

Aldman Rick Hummell?

Aldman Hummel?

Aye.

Aldaman Yorg? Aye. Mayor McAndrew? Aye. Thank you.

All right. The next item on the agenda is related to abatement of asbestos at our municipal garage, Mr. City Manager.

Yes. So this project's picking up steam and we've got it out to bid. We had a pre-bid meeting today and we had, was it 16, I believe? 16 prime contractors that attended the pre-bid meeting. So if half of those end up submitting bids, we're doing really, really well to receive eight to 10, which we would hopefully end up getting in the end. So this project though, before we get the contractor mobilized and working on the site, we do have asbestos that needs to be removed. We knew this when we were doing our pre-planning. We've already built this into the budget And so the contract before you this evening attached to this ordinance would approve the bestest removal on the site, along with daily air monitoring as those materials are taken away. You can see the bid tabulations and the information that was provided. In the end, we are recommending acceptance of the contract with Environmental Operations Incorporated. The base bid was $17,761. And then the alternate, which is the air monitoring, which we'd also like to purchase, is an additional $1,320. Due to the work occurring in the existing building, we will have a contingency as well. We're recommending $1,919, which brings it to a nice clean number of $21,000 for the asbestos removal. And they will mobilize in September, so they should have that work done by the time we have our contractor ready to go on the site. We recommend approval of the ordinance.

Thank you. I'll open the discussion. Does anybody have any questions or comments?

You know, the only question I've got is, David, I assume this is all reimbursable out of the bond funds.

That is correct. Okay. Yeah.

And did we contemplate some of this? I know it's not in a grand scheme of things, not a ton of money, but did we contemplate this when we were sketching out the cost of the project?

We did. And if you looked at the bids, if you look at the bid tabulation there, you'll see there were two other alternates where we were studying and we thought we may have some additional costs and that didn't end up happening. So I think we're generally happy with where this number came in. Great. Thank you.

Other women abuse? I introduce bill number 7079, approving a contract with Environmental Operations Incorporated for the abatement of asbestos-containing materials at the Clayton Municipal Maintenance Facility at 8300 Shaw Park Drive to be read for the first time by title only. Second.

Any discussion? Mr. City Attorney?

Bill number 7079, first reading in ordinance approving a contract with Environmental Operations Incorporated for the abatement of asbestos-containing materials at the Clayton Municipal Maintenance Facility at 8300 Shaw Park Drive.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

I move that the Board give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of Bill number 7079 on the day of its introduction. Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Let the minutes reflect that the board has given unanimous consent.

Introduce bill number 7079, approving a contract with Environmental Operations Incorporated for the abatement of asbestos-containing materials at the Clayton Municipal Maintenance Facility at 8300 Shaw Park Drive to be read for the second time by title only.

Second. Any discussion? Mr. City Attorney?

Bill number 7079, second reading and consideration for adoption. An ordinance approving a contract with Environmental Operations Incorporated for the abatement of asbestos-containing materials at the Clayton Municipal Maintenance Facility at 8300 Shaw Park Drive.

Alderwoman Buse? Aye. Alderwoman Patel? Aye. Alderman Gary Feder?

Alderwoman Buse? Aye. Alderwoman Patel? Aye. Alderman Fader?

Aye.

Aldermen Rick Hummell? Aye. Aldeman Jeffery Yorg? Aye. Mayor McAndrew?

Aldermen Hummel? Aye. Aldeman York? Aye. Mayor McAndrew?

Aye. Thank you. So I think David's going to update us on this last item.

Yes. So this last item, we'd like to withdraw this ordinance from your consideration. We had a conversation today with Fry Wagner moving in storage and they actually revoked their bid or or at least stated that they wouldn't sign a contract um some sort of internal policy that they have so um i will say though that this contract here it was on here as an ordinance which actually isn't necessary because this isn't a public improvement this is just paying someone to move our stuff from one location to another so uh What I'm inclined to do at this point in time, being that this is within the threshold of what the city manager can approve, is I will approve an agreement administratively with our number two bidder, which was an amount of $12,645. So it's a little under $4,000 over what you had seen attached to this ordinance. in order to keep this project on schedule. So the reason we put all of these items related to the municipal garage on the agenda is so that you're aware that we're making these expenditures because this is a very large and important project, obviously. But I would just like to inform you at this point that I intend to improve that second contract in order to keep on schedule. So what's going on is we need to move everything from the municipal garage to a couple of other locations including 10 South Brentwood so that the asbestos folks can come in and get the asbestos out, so the contractors can then go in and start the actual construction project. If we delay the moving, if I take a resolution back to the Board of Aldermen for this amount, then we're gonna lose that particular window. We're gonna lose three weeks, which actually translates into more time because you impact the mobilization of the asbestos contractor. So it really has a long ripple effect if we don't get moving on this quickly. So I'm inclined to go ahead and administratively approve that contract. I'm letting you know right now that I intend to do that and that the ordinance in front of you is no longer necessary and that contractor won't sign it anyway. So any questions about any of that?

Why wouldn't they honor? I

don't know that they got into details on their internal policy. I'll let Matt come up. I don't think he has anything more to offer.

I think they're a very large company. I think the person we were dealing with didn't get sufficient explanation and reasoning from their managers to be able to even give us that information. He was told without much explanation that they would not be executing that contract. It could be something within their structure that has changed in a decision they're willing to make, but we did not get much explanation. The local people were apologetic and trying to assist, but there's just nothing else they could do for us right now.

Can you clarify, David, the rationale for your authority, which I'm not questioning? Is it the nature of the contract? Is it the dollar? Because it's not dollar value. It's

the dollar amount and the nature of the service itself.

Okay.

So I can approve up to $50,000 without having to have that conversation with the Board of Aldermen.

Okay. But we often do approve things under 50, don't we?

So if they're capital, if they're public improvements, so this is something required by a charter, so like the front door on the police station. We had to take that to the Board of Aldermen, the windows here in City Hall. Even though those aren't huge dollar amounts, those are considered public improvements and therefore require an ordinance approval by the Board of Alderman. When we start to look at charter changes and we have that conversation, I think one thing we might want to talk about is under that public improvement section is putting a threshold like $50,000 in there where we can skip some of this process, especially for items that were contained within the budget that you already had knowledge of. It's just an extra step that adds time to these things. So I think that's something we could talk about down the road as well.

Okay. Thank

you. Jeff, do you have any questions at all?

Nope. It's one less vote for tonight, so it works for me.

All right, great. So that brings us to the end of our agenda. We can go around and see if anybody has any big highlights from the last couple of weeks. Okay.

The new retail store that's opening near Davis Place. The only other thing I can think of is Jeff and I are trying something new. Given distance in summertime, we're trying a Zoom coffee on Thursday from 9 to 10. I saw

that.

We'll see how it

goes. I look forward to hearing about your attendance. Yeah. You might get a

lot.

I don't know.

We'll find out. Cool. I did a lot of stuff all in one weekend in Chicago. I attended the local progress convening, a gathering of 350 local elected officials from around the country, people from like 36 states, all elected to serve in a city, county or school board office. The theme was organized together, govern for all. The keynote was Brad Landers, who is recently famous, the New Jeffery Yorg City controller, who was tackled by federal agents walking with someone out of immigration court. And who also you may know or not know grew up in St. Louis County before moving to New Jeffery Yorg City where he's lived for decades. Anyways, there were actually a number of programs or sessions that were Pretty interesting. One was particularly relevant on the topic of automated license plate breeders, like the flock camera system that we have. Um, so I have been, um, I've not had time since I got back to like go through my notes and write them up and share, but the, um, I will do that. And the short story is that, um, the headline is that The city of Austin, for example, had this program, audited the program. They were with Flock and found that they weren't actually getting what they had contracted for in terms of retention, validation of a legitimate purpose for use of the system, and this idea of like, agency sharing by proxy. So we might say that we're not going to share with ice or that we only share with certain agencies. But any agency that we do share with could then share with anyone else. And so some different things to think about. And I think at a minimum, we have the opportunity to actually like Ask flock to show us what they told us right and like ask for some audit logs and ask for some reports and things like that, that they and it's possible chief has already done some of that. And if not, I assume would be happy to just to make sure we're getting what uh what we said we were um and then the other thing that was interesting was a session i went to where they were talking about like the attack on dei and stuff like that and diversity in general um and the i know we have a lot of lawyers in the room so But the lawyer who presented was talking about how the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution has specific... mention of our right ability or even responsibility to gather data and make decisions with the purpose of avoiding discriminatory impacts or outcomes, and that subsequently we should avoid perpetuating discrimination and remedy past discrimination. And we were reminded that executive orders do not overrule like the U.S. Constitution or our state constitution or local ordinances. And so I just thought was interesting. I don't know if there's like a direct impact for us and Clayton right now with anything we're doing, but the one of the key messages was that in order to like justify actions that you might take to remedy discrimination or ensure it's not continuing going forward and stuff is that you have to have data to make that case. And so that it's important that we continue basically continue any data gathering that we are doing that could support things we do in terms of, and I think about this like probably particularly with suppliers and things like that. And I don't believe that we've made any changes in response to executive orders. So I think that's good. But I just thought it was really great to think about we don't have to be worried in as much as we can try not to how this could impact us and that's all for now

We'll find out. Cool. I did a lot of stuff all in one weekend in Chicago. I attended the local progress convening, a gathering of 350 local elected officials from around the country, people from like 36 states, all elected to serve in a city, county or school board office. The theme was organized together, govern for all. The keynote was Brad Landers, who is recently famous, the New York City controller, who was tackled by federal agents walking with someone out of immigration court. And who also you may know or not know grew up in St. Louis County before moving to New York City where he's lived for decades. Anyways, there were actually a number of programs or sessions that were Pretty interesting. One was particularly relevant on the topic of automated license plate breeders, like the flock camera system that we have. Um, so I have been, um, I've not had time since I got back to like go through my notes and write them up and share, but the, um, I will do that. And the short story is that, um, the headline is that The city of Austin, for example, had this program, audited the program. They were with Flock and found that they weren't actually getting what they had contracted for in terms of retention, validation of a legitimate purpose for use of the system, and this idea of like, agency sharing by proxy. So we might say that we're not going to share with ice or that we only share with certain agencies. But any agency that we do share with could then share with anyone else. And so some different things to think about. And I think at a minimum, we have the opportunity to actually like Ask flock to show us what they told us right and like ask for some audit logs and ask for some reports and things like that, that they and it's possible chief has already done some of that. And if not, I assume would be happy to just to make sure we're getting what uh what we said we were um and then the other thing that was interesting was a session i went to where they were talking about like the attack on dei and stuff like that and diversity in general um and the i know we have a lot of lawyers in the room so But the lawyer who presented was talking about how the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution has specific... mention of our right ability or even responsibility to gather data and make decisions with the purpose of avoiding discriminatory impacts or outcomes, and that subsequently we should avoid perpetuating discrimination and remedy past discrimination. And we were reminded that executive orders do not overrule like the U.S. Constitution or our state constitution or local ordinances. And so I just thought was interesting. I don't know if there's like a direct impact for us and Clayton right now with anything we're doing, but the one of the key messages was that in order to like justify actions that you might take to remedy discrimination or ensure it's not continuing going forward and stuff is that you have to have data to make that case. And so that it's important that we continue basically continue any data gathering that we are doing that could support things we do in terms of, and I think about this like probably particularly with suppliers and things like that. And I don't believe that we've made any changes in response to executive orders. So I think that's good. But I just thought it was really great to think about we don't have to be worried in as much as we can try not to how this could impact us and that's all for now

well thank you for going to that that sounds like a wonderful program yeah come next year sign me up

yeah

alderman Gary Feder

alderman fader

and we're curious how the war twos virtual coffee will go because we've continued to follow the practice in ward three of taking a summer break. So we will, we will not resume until September, but we'll then we, we will be back at call these and assumedly I'll have a word three colleague by then. Um, the, um, we had a meeting on July 8th of the community equity commission, uh, We've reported on the choice of the new municipal judge, which I think was well received by the CEC and the process, which was well received. So that really was sort of a result of work of the CEC. There was continued some relatively contentious discussion of this issue about anti-Semitism and racial epithets at the school district and some debate in the meeting as to whether, in a sense, it's any of our business at the city since it's a school district matter. But there are those of us who think it is, at least to the extent of encouraging our continued discussion and discussion And so we, again, Dr. Poole, to his credit, who has not frequently attended our meetings, did attend for the second time, did continue to discuss what the school district is doing, promised he would continue to report to the Equity Commission between now and the beginning of the school year on what's happening on that front. So we'll see how that plays out. I attended, as did Alderman Rick Hummell and Gary Carter and members of the police force, the opening or the ribbon cutting of the Bank of Washington. They've actually been open for a few months. It's a very nice facility at Forsyth and Hanley in the Pierre Laclede Center. It's an interesting business. I had to look it up, but actually the Bank of Washington has been around for 150 years. They never had a bank outside of Franklin County until now, and they came to Clayton. So it's a very nice thing. It's, I think, four generations of the Eccle Camp family. I have to admit, the senior member, L.B. Eccle Camp, he and I did a transaction together when he was the lender 35 years ago. He claimed to remember me. I'm not sure he did, but... Anyway, it's a very fine family, and it's neat to see all those multi-generations, and it's a really nice facility that they've got there. And since the mayor was not there, I got to make a few opening remarks. So anyway, it was a positive experience, and we did cut the ribbon. I think the mayor and I also, maybe there were others who attended a function, I guess, a couple of Sundays ago for the foundation that's been now in place for our police, Clayton Police and Fire. Steve Burrows and some others have been sort of the leading force in putting that foundation together. It was at Five Iron. So it was a good excuse for me to go since I'm not a golfer. I'm not sure I would ever have wound up there otherwise. But it's a very neat facility. and they had some nice food and drink, and I think it's a great thing that they're doing there. So that's it for me. Thank you.

and we're curious how the war twos virtual coffee will go because we've continued to follow the practice in ward three of taking a summer break. So we will, we will not resume until September, but we'll then we, we will be back at call these and assumedly I'll have a word three colleague by then. Um, the, um, we had a meeting on July 8th of the community equity commission, uh, We've reported on the choice of the new municipal judge, which I think was well received by the CEC and the process, which was well received. So that really was sort of a result of work of the CEC. There was continued some relatively contentious discussion of this issue about anti-Semitism and racial epithets at the school district and some debate in the meeting as to whether, in a sense, it's any of our business at the city since it's a school district matter. But there are those of us who think it is, at least to the extent of encouraging our continued discussion and discussion And so we, again, Dr. Poole, to his credit, who has not frequently attended our meetings, did attend for the second time, did continue to discuss what the school district is doing, promised he would continue to report to the Equity Commission between now and the beginning of the school year on what's happening on that front. So we'll see how that plays out. I attended, as did Alderman Hummel and Gary Carter and members of the police force, the opening or the ribbon cutting of the Bank of Washington. They've actually been open for a few months. It's a very nice facility at Forsyth and Hanley in the Pierre Laclede Center. It's an interesting business. I had to look it up, but actually the Bank of Washington has been around for 150 years. They never had a bank outside of Franklin County until now, and they came to Clayton. So it's a very nice thing. It's, I think, four generations of the Eccle Camp family. I have to admit, the senior member, L.B. Eccle Camp, he and I did a transaction together when he was the lender 35 years ago. He claimed to remember me. I'm not sure he did, but... Anyway, it's a very fine family, and it's neat to see all those multi-generations, and it's a really nice facility that they've got there. And since the mayor was not there, I got to make a few opening remarks. So anyway, it was a positive experience, and we did cut the ribbon. I think the mayor and I also, maybe there were others who attended a function, I guess, a couple of Sundays ago for the foundation that's been now in place for our police, Clayton Police and Fire. Steve Burrows and some others have been sort of the leading force in putting that foundation together. It was at Five Iron. So it was a good excuse for me to go since I'm not a golfer. I'm not sure I would ever have wound up there otherwise. But it's a very neat facility. and they had some nice food and drink, and I think it's a great thing that they're doing there. So that's it for me. Thank you.

I will say, too, that Bank of Washington, I didn't – because it has been in operation for a little bit, and I saw the sign, and it just never occurred to me because the picture is George Washington, so I didn't really think about it. And then the soccer – one of the soccer district games were out in Washington, Missouri, and the Bank of Washington is everywhere in Washington, Missouri as you might imagine. So – kind of dawned on me, but they were very kind enough. I think as a new business in Clayton, they gave us a scholarship to a senior, a graduating senior Clayton high school senior, which I, you know, I, I did email them about when I told them I couldn't attend the ribbon cutting, but I just thought it was a great example of a new business in trying to immediately give back to their community.

I'd add that they promote themselves as a community bank and that part of their motto is to do good. And so I sort of encourage them. We were trying to find a way they could do good for the city of Clayton in some fashion. So anyway, hopefully there's some synergy there.

Great. I am happy to relay that the DeMunn speed table is going to be put in on August 4th, weather permitting, and the markings. And I know some of our neighbors are very excited. In fact... They've reported they're going to buy a new car now that there's feeling safe that they can actually keep their car on the street. So we're helping with economic development while we're putting safety in place. So that's good news. I spent a fair amount of time working with residents and getting a lot of support from David and Anna and Kevin's law firm regarding stormwater between Aberdeen and Whiteown Terrace. And so it's good to hear that it's a sustainability committee issue. I know that we all collectively with Ana's leadership are looking at residential stormwater. What's interesting to me is that it, there appears to be some at least anecdotal memory of private stormwater agreements that were in place, but in this right of way, yet we can find no documentation of any such thing. And so again, I think there are some amateur detectives that want to solve this, although I'm not sure what that will do. But what I do think is that we may at some time as we modify or enact our stormwater policies, maybe reach out to neighbors in areas that are affected like this about strategies on what we can do and what's encouraged. And so I would anticipate that'll be the next step. And then finally, we had a CRSWC Finance Committee meeting. And so I wanted to just make sure everyone is aware that we have a joint board meeting with the school board coming up on a dinner on September the 3rd. And so where there are two kind of big things, I think that there may be many things we talk about, but at least two big things to bring to your attention to think about now. One will be opera theater expressing interest in using or needing parking spots that may be either controlled by the high school or the CRSWC. And so hopefully we'll get more details on that and contemplate how workable that is for us. We at least anticipate that it's very workable, but I just wanna cue that up for you to be thinking about it. I guess the bigger picture issue that I would throw out that is significant has to do with finances. And so I wanted to just briefly talk about our financial position and condition. And then really the question is, what do we want to do about it? What are our priorities as we approach this meeting with the school board? So just a couple quick numbers. Our budget for this year is to operate at an operating deficit of $420,000, and our expectations that Tony and Val brought to us are it's more like maybe $268,000. So an improvement, which is great, but the improvement is because we have, at least in large part, not filled, or at least hadn't until now, filled four full-time positions. And so those things happen. And so that's a conservative way of budgeting. So that's fine. but we did try to more strategically do things by increasing rates and trying to increase marketing to drive additional memberships. So we've implemented the increased rates, but we have not seen any real significant change in memberships. In fairness, our marketing plan has really just been implemented though, and our budget had contemplated that it would. So I'm not raising a red flag there, but it hasn't happened and we wanna look at that. So we're going to continue to study things that we may bring this kind of analysis out at this meeting about our capacity analysis, our resident penetration and how well we're doing with that. Our desire to market more aggressively in the corporate market, recognizing that many of these new corporate facilities have their own fitness facilities. facilities and so we bring other things to the table so there are things that we can do like expanding services um personal trainers or something that we do that's particularly successful and now that we've modified hours rental uh revenues are another option for us but i say of all this is because we started to contemplate the 2026 budget And so I told you before what those numbers were. This right now, maybe we're looking at something more along the lines of a $537,000 deficit. So the deficit is growing. And as you can all imagine, rising expenses across the board. A big part of the rising expenses have to do with payroll. We approve this STEP program, and that STEP program affects the CRSWC staff. And so expenses are increasing. And so the question really comes down to collectively for us, what do we want to do about it? Are we going to compare this relative to our cost recovery? And so as a percentage, we may still be in alignment, but the number is growing as we go forward. On the other hand, we generally implement rate increases only every other year. Do we want to do it more frequently in light of the fact that we're seeing these increases or are we seeing this as a public good and that we intentionally subsidize this? We're prepared to subsidize it at a higher level. So these kinds of questions are the things that we need to make sure that we know where we're coming from. And it's conceivable that our point of view and the school board's point of view may not be in exact alignment. I think we're largely in alignment, but we may not be. And so anyway, think about that as we prepare for that meeting.

Rick, thank you. I mean, I do really appreciate it. I think it's great to get that summary. I hope that members of the school board are also perhaps relaying that information because I just think it's helpful for us all not to be surprised in September. So I do really, I think it's

Just a side comment on your desires and wishes there. Jeff and I attended the meeting, but there were no school board members in attendance at this meeting.

Thank you.

Bridget, can I ask? So one question I have, which maybe is not necessarily a finance question, but reading about the school district's plans for the future and their facilities, which include, it appears, adding perhaps a wing to the building. it makes me wonder a little bit about the use of the center itself, whether there's any thought that may be some modification to that building itself might. And I realize it's a school district and city building, so it's not just up to the school district, but I'm just curious, have you seen any discussion of how their planning for the future relates to the potential use of the center in the future?

If they have that information, they haven't shared that with the CRSWC board as a whole. You know, there are things where like the Stuber gym and the air conditioning system and things, there's some overlap and there's access. And so to the facility and they have certain security issues they want, but it really has nothing to do with what you're referring to in terms of their growth plan. And so, no, we don't know anything about that.

Thank you.

Alderman Yorg, any updates?

So Rick covered a lot of them. I think I would just say a couple things that was worth note from the CR meeting is we seem to see a pretty... We saw a drop in non-resident memberships, which was not necessarily unexpected, but I think Tony and team are going to dig into a little bit of maybe where those non-residents live to get some sense of if there's any theme we can pull from it. I think... One of the other things out of it that we talked about that we'll probably talk about more at the larger meeting is from a capital improvement standpoint, do we kind of rearrange some of the capital improvements to focus on those that are most likely to drive people to either leave or leave membership or to obtain membership? So we talked about pool deck, the visual or unappealingness of part of the pool deck versus like scoreboards that may have some dents in them. So Tony and team are going to take that back and, again, look at what capital improvements may make the most sense when you're trying to convince people to join as members or keep people from leaving. The bigger point that I think Rick hit on and I would just reinforce is we had this conversation a little bit last meeting. We'll have it probably again this meeting in September. But I think we're moving towards that day where We either need to set it at like the 85% recovery rate is kind of where I think the goal is. But every year, it's the actual dollar amount is going to get more expensive. So at some point, we're going to have to accept as our half of the boards, either... How do we increase rates? How do we do other things to make it more self-sufficient? Or we need to basically say, we're going to start eating a larger and larger dollar amount of the cost in order to provide this as a public good to our residents. And I don't know if we're there yet, but I do think that's the way these numbers are going because there's only so many members we can add. There's only so high we can make the membership rates without getting, frankly, too close to Lifetime and others and make it, you know, why would you pay for us if you can go pay someplace else? So I just think we all need to be thoughtful in the coming years that we may need to make that decision as to how much we're willing to sink into it. And if not, what are the other options? I don't, again, I don't think we're there yet, but I do think it's a conversation we're probably going to need to start having a little bit more than we may have had in the past. So that was it. Other than that, Susan covered it. We'll let you guys know how the Zoom meeting, Zoom coffee goes. Ward 2 historically is not, other than big items like the WashU and Cordia project, we tend not to get a ton of attendance. So I'll be curious if this drives attention More attendance, we've tried mornings, we've tried weekends, we've tried after work. We don't tend to get a lot. So we'll see if this drives some of that.

Everybody is so happy in our area. There's no big issue.

But

they're represented so well. I think you should put a sign out for your coffee when the generators are running in your neighborhood.

I can't hear you. I do want that coffee to come back though.

Yes. All right, great. I would just mention I did meet with some people from NEI Desco, which they're the retail experts that are trying to fill up Bemis in Place and Forsyth Point. It was a good conversation. They really blame construction costs as a big reason why they've, they, they really are very surprised. They haven't filled more spaces at Beavisden place, especially but they do blame a lot of it, not necessarily on people not wanting to be in Clayton or because there's not enough parking or all the reasons that people tell us, you know, It is just these construction costs are four times higher than they were five years ago. So it was great to meet with them, but it was, you know, a little disappointing. But we'll see. It was, you know nice to at least, you know, introduce kind of that relationship and we promised to stay in touch. We had a FEMA meeting yesterday, and I'll just let you all know again that the representative, that the Missouri representative of FEMA that's tied to our account or our city was no surprise to showing how impressed they were with our staff and how organized they were. So I'll just comment on that. I had my first St. Louis Art Fair board meeting, and they're moving along. I mean, the Art Fair, as you all know, is right around the corner. Just a couple of things I was going to mention. They're starting something new, which Sarah brought back from like a conference she went to. They're going to have kits. to kind of 200 to 400 kids will go to the Ferguson Florissant School District, kind of like our kids, because as we all know, one of the first things to go in a school budget is art. So they have different ideas on how to market them, but I think, I don't know if they found a donor, but they'll also maybe have a place where you buy one and give one, where if you buy one, then they'll give an extra one to the Ferguson Floristant School District. But I thought that was an interesting new thing that they're trying this year. Sarah said how great our staff, Matt, how great it has been to work with our staff once again. No surprise. And Gary already mentioned the Police and Fire Foundation event, which was great. It was nice to talk to some of the spouses and meet some of the kids at the event. So thank you to the foundation for hosting that. So that's all I have. Alderman Yorg, do you have a comment?

Yeah, just one question. Going back to your original note about NEI and DESCO, did they have any – thoughts as to or i guess two questions do they have any thoughts as to what could be helpful and secondly do they give you any feedback as to what they're doing to try to market these because right like the construction costs are what they are that they've gone high like i'm just trying to trying to get a sense of they're being proactive and what if anything they may have said we could be helpful with if anything

Yeah, I mean, I said that exact thing, like what can we do? And they didn't have a lot of input per se, you know, now that the building is in the ground. You know, I mean, it's not, you know, doing retroactive incentives per se is not – it's not something we talked about. They do seem – I mean, they said they have – they listed off many, many places. I mean, of course, they're being very, very active in who they're talking to. They think maybe hundreds of people that they've talked to about coming into the space, whether it's at Forsyth Point, whether it's Beavisden Place, whether it's ice cream. And they showed me the spaces. So you've got, as everybody probably knows, Sushi AI is moving down the street to the corner. And then there's basically three spots So maybe on one end, which does have some sort of exhaust. So you have some small kitchen, ideally maybe like a wine house or something that has some sort of little bites. And then potentially, I know they've had some interest, like a fitness place showed some interest. They've really tried to get ice cream. I begged them to try to look into frozen yogurt because that seems like that's something that would be very low cost. And these kids are going out to, like, out to Creve Coeur constantly. They drive miles and miles. And I can't believe it would be that expensive. It's all they want is Froyo. So, yeah, so I put my plug in for Froyo. But, yeah, I mean, I think they're – I mean, I'm hopeful that they'll come up with something soon. But, yeah. It's just – yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, they're doing all they can. They certainly told me about – about a million places they've reached out to. Okay.

Interesting. Thanks.

Yep. David.

would just mention it if you haven't looked at it already um and also for the public we do have our tornado response overview on the website it's a button right there in the front you can find it through the storm updates as well if you haven't taken a look at the overview it's really really impressive so we used a program called story maps which is within our gis system so honor her staff put that together after compiling information that the public works had collected along with the fire department, the police department throughout the entire event. So it really chronicles from really the moment, the tornado touchdown to where we are today with recovery, how that process has gone. The maps are all interactive. You can click on icons and you can see damage throughout the city with incredible detail. We detail all the trees that were damaged or completely fell, those that were being pruned. It's just incredibly comprehensive. It's one of the items we gave FEMA that they commented on and the meeting that we had. We just kind of overwhelmed them with information, I think. But it's really impressive, and I'm proud of our staff for putting that together. And it's something I think our community can look at and be proud of as well. So just want to put that out there that it's on the website and accessible. So that's it.

Motion to adjourn. Second. All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Good night, Jeff.

Good night, y'all. I'll see you guys soon.