October 8, 2024 — Meeting Transcript

Okay. Well, welcome to our October 8th meeting and we're going to start off with a report from our Missouri extensions representative Melissa pilot. Is that how I say it pilot. P-Lot. P-Lot, okay, sorry. All right, sorry. But anyway, thank you very much for doing this. We really appreciate it and I know at least one of our board members has done it before and so it does take your time and so we really appreciate your service on this. And so I think we're ready. We're anxious to hear what's been going on there. So take it away.

Great. Thank you so much. One of the really exciting things for me when Susan reached out to ask if I would take on this role is that my mother worked for Michigan State's extension offices here in Michigan. New Ago County, Michigan, where I am right now, caring for my mom. And so just sort of the background of what a lot of the preconceived notions of extension are were already out of my, out of my, that just wasn't where I was at. I've always known extension to be an amazing resource for for all people in our state, whether or not people realize they are receiving the benefits of the extension process statewide and here locally as well. So if you've ever had any Master Gardener training or have seen the results of people who have done Master Gardening training, that training, even when offered through the Missouri Botanical Garden, is actually done by Extension Agents who are specialists in those areas and the certificate of completion is issued by University of Missouri and Columbia. So just some of those things are the idea of 4-H being all that extension does. and where farm kids benefit from the latest research in agriculture. It's a big, huge STEM area that's just really exploded for any child that wants to participate in 4-H, as well as being a great leadership opportunity, and really thinking about those opportunities business incubator type of skills, that's been sort of a baseline of what extension offices in every state can do for their communities. So that is sort of what I brought to this sort of from the get-go. So it's been a long time since I have been on a Zoom where I needed to present a slideshow, but I am going to use slides because Being here in Michigan, without the benefit of my notes or all the little flyers I was going to hand out to you guys. I just thought I'd kind of run through the updates that have happened since I took over the spot. In, I think, mid May or mid June I think may was my first meeting that I was able to attend so every meeting comes with a hey here's something you might want to share with the people of your community and it might be something they're already using and the city would be interested in knowing about. It might be something that would come up as useful. It may not be useful for you specifically, but as our communities talk about problems or issues that are coming up, just to consider the ways Extension is already meeting some of those needs in our community and can really rise to the occasion. I will pause for a moment to make sure I haven't just spoken randomly and, and been on freeze. Um, and just see if that, that clicks with everyone. If you're ready for me to start the slideshow.

I think we're ready. You weren't on freeze. Thanks. Great. Okay.

So I'm going to share my screen. We'll do that. We will Try to do this and we will find you. Does that show up for you guys? There we go.

Looks wonderful. We can see it. Yep.

Okay, so from just the front of the Extension webpage, what I wanted to sort of point out is that when you go to MU Extension, this top orange bar all the way across does not link you directly to the St. Louis connections for Extension. Even if you know that you've reached St. Louis County, if you click on any of those orange ones across the top, it's basically taking you to the statewide site. So from that purpose, you really have to, once you see the St. Louis, scroll down. Through the innovations and ideals of the University of Missouri, MU Extension improves lives, businesses, and communities by focusing on solving Missouri's grand challenges around agricultural growth and stewardship, economic opportunity, educational access, and health and well-being. So sort of as that as the core to think about building that the land and how we use it, but also Small business and how we nurture and grow those as well is a big part of what Extension does here in our county. So close. I was so clever with my... Anybody know if I can... I did hyperlinks in all of these in case they go to you, but I think what I have to do is full screen this. And then it might let me... There we go. Okay. So just from the get-go, talking about MU Extension in St. Louis County, this is where when you scroll down on that first page, you get all of the... services and things like that that MU Extension does here in our county. One of the really exciting things that has happened is that Extension offices are staffed by university faculty. I know some of this might be like you already are there, you know exactly how this works, it's been around for Don't

assume that, Melissa. I appreciate

it. So every county in the state of Missouri has an extension office. So that is by design and that is the purpose of getting the great research that is done with taxpayer dollars and often land grant universities done. to make sure that that information is then shared back out with the communities via these offices. So one of the things that Susan had kind of started to see was that the county extension has a budget and it is issued by the county, but the purpose of that budget is actually to operate the office. Like literally the space, all the staff, all the faculty, all the instructors are coming from and are paid by and hired by the university to fill those high level roles within extension. And then the role that the county has traditionally done and been responsible for is to make sure that there's an office for them to meet and do programs and meet with the public in. and to offer support staffing. So the reception staff that's in that office is part of what the St. Louis County government funds as a part of, there's a revised Missouri statute that accounts for that to make sure that it is legit and it is how it's run for generations. So from that, just to know that the extension website has a ton of stuff on it. But our local area information can be found right here. on this page if you scroll down from the top menu. The very first meeting, I think this had been on Susan's meeting list, but I came in the following meeting and was just really blown away. I had been through parents as teachers. I'd been through the Clayton School District as a parent and as a volunteer. And one of the most fantastic things that I never knew existed Let's see if it'll gently take me to the next page. I'm also using a 10-year-old Mac. Well, I will go on to tell you about the, I'll just pop it out this way, old school. ParentLink from University of Missouri is, as you see right there described, the warm line. ParentLink is an anonymous advice line for any parent or caregiver in the state of Missouri to be able to call and get help answering questions about parenting. caring for young people and the only requirement is they are required to give a zip code so that Missouri can track the usage of this service across the state. And of course, St. Louis County has a tremendous amount of use of this line. So While we know that it's really important for people to get nonjudgmental help and that eliminating barriers to getting help is going to benefit children, and that's going to benefit families, and that's just that that's been out there and I never knew. So, uh, that has been one of my, like, you should know about this, even if not for you, um, for anyone that works with children that are early childhood educators, um, our, our school social workers, anyone like that, that could benefit from this. I could tell the school district and the school social workers, and they have a lot on their plates already. Um, so just in terms of the word of mouth, I, I find that, um, The raising awareness about what's out there can be one of the most powerful ways to make sure that people have the right resource at the right time. And that comes with more of us having this knowledge and awareness when someone has the need for it. So I thought that was a really great point. Like, wow, this is wonderful that MU does this and it's accessible to anyone in the state. The next program that we talked about was a very interesting presentation. I forget the gentleman that came. to present at this meeting, but recovery friendly workplace. Some of the members of the council are working closely with economic development. Some of them are working with unions and some of the labor just committees here in the county and recovery friendly initiative is designed for workplaces that want to employ formerly addicted people and to ensure that we don't lose economic gains by retraining people, by people returning to addiction, by all of these things that, again, we know that it's better as a society if people stay employed. It's better as a keeping people from expressing their needs to an employer or a union rep, that can be a barrier for them getting the help that they need. So Recovery Friendly Initiative is not really designed for the addict. It's designed for the employer. So as we have so many major headquarters and businesses here in Clayton, that this would be something that their human resources people or their development type of departments, their staff development departments, if they saw the economic impact of addiction on our productivity on some of these things, that it might be worth it for them to look into getting the help that they need. Not very many people I think are social workers trained in addiction and recovery and what the special skills are that might need to be held by someone in order to make that job a success for someone. So I thought that was really like, this is big level, this is systemic change that I can see coming out of the university looking at ways that our workplaces can improve for people and for our businesses as well. So that was really, really fascinating. most recent presentation was timed very interesting as I sent my child to the School of Engineering at University of Wisconsin-Madison this fall with a very hefty tuition bill. Missouri S&T is, we all know, UM Rolla or the School of Mines, however you're familiar with Missouri S&T, it is part of the Missouri University's sort of network And the part that was really fascinating about this was I had looked at, I looked at the ratings of the programs and S&T is like biggest bang for your buck. And it's sometimes so hard to get kids from Clayton to Sinrala or S&T. And we want to go big. The, the impact of this program, meeting with one of the assistant provosts for the Coomer Institute and some of the development, student success development team. just really honed in on how valuable a degree from Missouri S&T is. The fact that Missouri S&T does not just have engineering, they have an education college. So they have arts and sciences degrees that students can get. They have also received a huge donation from the Coomer family with the addition of other funds that came in sort of over the course of COVID around 2021, I think is when they opened the Coomer Institute or really pushed it. Um, they have a 300 million. I really think I'm not getting that incorrect. A 300 million endowment right now. Um, the number of programs they're able to do STEM outreach programs for schools, training for teachers completely free, um, And the scholarship money that's available for students coming from a district like Clayton, I know one or two people that are there for a ride right now. And it didn't have to be this highly competitive program. I'm sitting here thinking about the... Well, anyway, that's a personal discussion in my household in terms of that tuition check that we're writing. So I just want to put it out there again in the world of where your circles intersect with people that are requesting college options for people or just really talking up to change your perspective on something, open your mind to the way different smaller organizations can be more nimble and give more attention to a student in a way that, uh, my child's incoming class of 9,000 students, um, is 4,000 more than the, uh, enrollment at Missouri S&T right now. So, uh, it just really, I was blown away. I really hope that people give it a look or as you are, um, just interacting with people in the community, just if, if you, if you hear that little bit of, uh, that, um, Don't know what we would call that, but I'll just call it snootiness. I will call that if someone has some sort of sense of S&T, I would beg them to give it another shot. It was a very, very interesting meeting. And then the last thing I wanted to bring up is that the county extension recently moved offices um number of the people on the community um anyone like clayton with a population of over 10 000 is allowed to appoint a member to the extension council as thank you mayor harris um for appointing me on susan's recommendation that um so so a number of the board members are in our large north county communities And they moved to the extension offices from Kirkwood into, um, Olivet and all of that Overland. Sorry. See, um, but, uh, there is going to be an open house next week, Thursday, October 17th, sorta in the afterschool up to before our next extension meeting. And just a chance for people to see the offices. You can bring your soil samples if you need soil testing, you get information from a master gardener there on site. You can just kind of see like what's the space like? What's the staff like? And how does this have a chance to impact my community? I think there is a other very, very well-known initiative that I did not bring up a link to, but there is a community resource training program I'll add that to the email some other time, but or they'll present on it again and I will present it to you because I can't give you everything that I want to tell you about all the amazing things they do. I leave you with this final slide. Each slide that I included has a hyperlink to the site mentioned. But if you are one that likes to cut and paste or type them out yourself, I leave this slide with June as well so that you can get a copy of that. And I open it up to any questions you might have right now, or I know you have a big meeting ticket on too.

Thank you. That was a great presentation. I have to confess, I will confess, I knew absolutely nothing about Missouri Extension programs. I mean, so I have one question, but I'm going to wait and let everybody else go first. It's what I always do. So senior alder person, Bridget, you have questions, comments?

Melissa, thank you so much. I also knew, um, I'm not from here, so I guess I'll, I can at least say that I'm only a 14 year, I'm only a 13 year resident so far of Missouri. So, um, I don't know, maybe they're doing that up in, I'm from Wisconsin. So Madison's a great, Madison's a great place. So I think hopefully your child will enjoy it. Um, So, but yes, thank you so much. I guess I'm curious, maybe looking at the website, like understanding, you know, all the programs that they're kind of built, like bringing to St. Louis County. Like, I guess I just need to explore the website a little bit more to understand where those, like how people, you know, how people can get those programs into schools. And, you know, I guess I look forward to kind of, I guess, learning more about it. Oh,

thank you. I think you'll play around on the website, and then you'll find something that you like for someone you know. And then you'll find that's interesting to you, and there's a little bit of a rabbit hole that you can go down. And I will say, I didn't find parts, there were parts of the website that I didn't find intuitive. I had to reach out to Rebecca Penniman, the community extension liaison, and sort of get her to send me some of the links that I knew were there. And I'm a librarian. I can find things pretty easily. So just I would say play around in it. And if you want to shoot me an email or ask me any questions, I'm happy to talk more about it.

Thank you. And I do hope maybe I'll I can't, I can't imagine becoming a master gardener, but I would love to garden better. So. Oh,

I've got that in my future plan. Yes. I want to do it.

Oh, we can start with getting our soil tested. Um, so that was great. And I had that same experience. I went into my first meeting, not, not knowing anything about this and I was blown away by everything that was offered and you know, it's with the university professors and all the partnerships. So as I listened to your presentation, um, And one of the issues, as you said, is getting that information out there so people know. I never knew there was a parent hotline to call. And so I wonder if we could help with that with maybe an article in City Views or something else at some point. So think about that and we can talk about that. And of course, then I thought as well that connecting with the school district, whether it be in their comment before a board meeting or we can contact the board president and just see if they want an actual presentation because a lot of these you know, so many things in our community are intertwined and things that could help the district as well in bringing in courses for there. The other part a little more germane to tonight actually is we're looking at our livable communities plan and all the goals that we hope, all the things we hope to accomplish and with the overlap and how can we partner with Missouri Extensions and get the support we need That way, just kind of looking through it. And so I don't know if you've had a chance to look through the current plan. We're just approving it tonight, but there's certainly ways for us to start leveraging this as well. And I think Clayton can do a better job of that first increase in the awareness and then actually saying, Hey, yay, they can really bring something to us that, that w that we need. So I'm so happy you're doing this and yeah, it was great presentation and we'll see what's next. Thanks. Thank you.

I just want to say thank you for serving and sharing the information. Appreciate it.

Melissa, I was also unaware. And so thank you for your presentation. A question for you. I'm also unaware of the whole appointment process and the fact that we had the opportunity to appoint you. And so I'm wondering either what are the expectations on you as they relate to the city or is there something that the city needs to do or can do to be more supportive of you and this program?

I think that you're doing it right now, just having the opportunity to speak about the things that are presented in the meeting. And email is really easy to ignore. We all get tons of email and there's links that we say we'll go back and look at later. But just that face-to-face opportunity to be able to share the material that's shared. My understanding, just how the appointment process was, Susan was in and had a conflict of interest and had reached out based on, I had applied through the city's portal to be on a committee. And I just put my name in the hat and that. So I think that my information was already in the city's hands and my application and background were readily available when a spot needed to be filled. So from what I could piece together, that was the process in this case um it is the type of thing that no one quite enjoys being on a um an advising uh committee so the purpose of the council is really to look at that annual budget and although we don't have a lot of leeway with the cost of staff and the cost of buildings um we are a board that that judges or that that um ways in on the financial and budgeting process for the county council budget. That's one of the things that is done. And from the perspective of being leaders in Clayton, which although our services here are to the city of Clayton as our county seat, I think anytime you have an opportunity to sort of perk up and say, I know about that. They do a lot of things that we probably benefit from, but don't ever see if I have planted that seed for you as different departments are going through and making decisions about what things in our community get supported. or what things get the, I don't even know what that is or what it does. So I would just put it out there from that perspective and to really think about where we sit as a leader for our county and our state. That's how I see this role. I see it as I have an opportunity to represent Clayton with some smarts and experience And also to make sure that this isn't phoning it in for Clayton on the end of bringing what we bring to the board and what we bring to county extension is a really wide reach of leaders in our entire region. So that might be a little ambitious, but that would be my wish that more people knew about just a glimmer of some of these benefits that we get from our rich research history of our state universities that have always had our communities in mind. So as we look at the future and what sort of opportunities come up economically, that this might also be another way to look at small business encouragement and incubator type of services.

Great. Thank you.

Thanks.

So, Melissa, first, thanks for joining from what I would call lovely Nuevo County. So my wife's a Michigan girl and my daughter spends most of her showers at Camp Nuevo, which isn't too

far. Yeah, I used to live. My mom used to live over on Panoia Creek, right by Pickerel Lake. And the wetlands just had a major, major forest fire. So, yeah,

we... She goes up there every summer and loves it. Yep, it's great. It's an all-girls camp up in Michigan. She loves it. It's amazing. And many a summer up and back to New England County. Yeah. So... I've actually used this a couple of times when I was redoing my yard for soil testing, actually. And I find that the people are great. You get way more detail from them than you'd get from any sort of like commercial process. So I would highly encourage folks who are interested in that sort of thing. It's a way better place to use and it's affordable compared to like going to some kind of mass market, like commercial kind of entity. And then lastly, you know, Melissa, thank you for just sorting on it. As you said, it may not be the most... glamorous committee, but I think it's important for us as a city to be involved in those sorts of committees across the state and across the area, because the more our name stays involved, the better we have a chance to kind of have a say in how things are done and also know kind of what's going on. And I think that's part of our role in St. Louis County and frankly, our role in the whole state. So thank you.

Yep. Thank you. Well, Melissa, so great presentation. I think my main question was going to be kind of what do you do on the council? And you answered it already. Rick asked, you know, you guys are managing the funds and making sure they're allocated properly. It did catch my attention when you talked about small businesses because in Clayton we have recently lost our Chamber of Commerce, sadly. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm wondering, we can talk about this maybe offline. I just wonder if there are programs, we're trying to figure out what can we do to help our businesses now? What kind of role should we play? What can we provide? And maybe there's a way to connect with Mizzou Extensions on that for some help. And I don't know what are the kind of resources, but maybe we can follow up on that. I'll make a note and try to remember, yeah, to reach out to you because I think that might be productive. So thank you again so much. And thanks for moving your date. We appreciate that

so much. I appreciate the opportunity to move the date and I wish you all the best and get lots of rest and shore up your, you know, yeah.

Enjoy. Yes, exactly. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much. Thanks a lot.

Thanks. Thank you.

Okay.

flooding over here.

Gary, I just want to tell you, my very first meeting as an alderman, Ben, you should tell was the mayor. I did the exact same thing. My very first meeting. It worked out. I was so embarrassed. Yeah, there you go. Oh, man. Okay. All right. So we can now begin our seven o'clock session. And I think we will first call the roll.

Alderman McAndrew? Here. Alderman Buse? Here. Alderwoman Patel? Here. Aldeman Gary Feder?

Alderman McAndrew? Here. Alderman Buse? Here. Alderwoman Patel? Here. Aldeman Fader?

Alderman Rick Hummell?

Alderman Hummel?

Aldermen Jeffery Yorg? Here. Mayor Harris? Here. City Manager David Gipson? Here. City Attorney O'Keefe? Here. Thank you.

Aldermen York? Here. Mayor Harris? Here. City Manager Gibson? Here. City Attorney O'Keefe? Here. Thank you.

Okay, very good. First, we would consider any public requests and petitions. So if anyone is here... That is not here about something on our agenda tonight or online now it's your chance to come and ask us about it and. You know hands so we'll move on, I think we would we're going to quickly review our consent agenda it's I understand we might want to talk about the date

yeah I would request that we pull out the board of alderman meeting scheduled for discussion.

all right and I know we've got the issue is we have a meeting scheduled for Rosh Hashanah and do we want to switch that around June you very brilliantly put some alternate dates already on there for us

Yeah, so if you look at the calendar, if we moved it to the 16th, we'd only have one week. That would just be one week after our previous meeting. Whereas if we move it to the 30th, it is still two weeks until our next meeting in October, just because of the way the dates fall. So that seems like a pretty logical move to me. I would propose that we move that date from the 23rd of September 2025 to the 30th. um is that a motion that needs a second or anything or do we just

do it

we're talking about uh the september meeting

which uh the second one falls on russia shona and i thought you might have any any opinion there but we're moving it probably not

yeah okay very good okay just checking with you all right um Yeah, I like the idea of the 30th personally. Yeah. I won't be. You won't be

here. I mean, you can come join us anytime. You'll always be welcome.

All right. I'll actually be out of the country. Got a trip planned.

So anyway. You already know you have a trip planned? I do because

it's a big one. Celebrate our 35th. Excellent. So that is beside the point of our meeting, however. So, yes. You need a

motion that's seconded for that to happen. So I make the motion to move September 23rd, 2025 to September 30th, 2025. Second.

Okay. We don't need a roll call, do we? All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, very good. All right. So we're going to switch our agenda around a little bit. Oh. Yes, we can have a motion to approve the consent agenda as amended. I will move to approve the consent

Agenda

as amended.

Second.

All those in

favor.

Aye. It's a roll call. Sorry. Alderman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Alderwoman Patel. Aye. Aldermen Gary Feder.

Aye. It's a roll call. Sorry. Alderman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Alderwoman Patel. Aye. Aldermen Fader.

Aye.

Aldeman Rick Hummell.

Aldeman Hummel.

Aye.

Aldemann Jeffery Yorg.

Aldemann York.

Aye.

Mayor Harris. Aye. Thank you. Okay.

And that gives rooster a liquor license. If that's what someone was sitting here for, they're free to leave. Just in time. No questions. You're welcome to stay. Good to go.

Yeah. Great. Thank you. I wondered if that was the person. I was

like, I know who that is.

Okay. All right. So we are going to go a little bit out of order. of our agenda, because we have some guests here to present some things so. we're going to skip over to the competitive commemorative landscape task force recommendations, if you will, and so we have a city manager report for. First of all, the first but first Baptist Church, if you want to give that

and that's correct and I i'll give a really brief. presentation here the Member the mayor's commemorative landscape task force has been working on commemorations, as you know, we approved multiple markers already. The fiscal year 2025 budget allocates $2,000 for commemorative markers. And historically, we've shared those costs with the Clayton Community Foundation. So there is a recommendation from the mayor's commemorative landscape task force this evening for the First Baptist Church of Clayton. And I know we have Donna Rogers-Beer here to speak on that this evening. So I will turn it over to...

Donna, you want to come on up? And I tuned out a little bit while you were talking, sorry. But we did kind of, we had a previous community remembered. And so this celebration of the black community that was here, this is just another piece of that, if you will. This is part of that black community. So we went through that actual recommendation then, and we haven't redone it because this really just falls under that umbrella. And so what we're here tonight to do is, first of all, I'm free to ask Donna any questions about this because she's the expert on that community and has a wealth of information, but we really want to get the language for the plaque approved if possible tonight so we can move forward with that. Oh turn on turn your MIC I don't think it's on yeah.

That doesn't green yeah okay good so we've been through the presentation, I think of the clayton missionary Baptist church and the deed that sealed the purchase of the Church, the land that the church was built on and I went through Community members. who attended the church, the interior of the church. I think the one thing that changes perhaps in my presentation is that probably two days after I spoke to you, I was going through the post-dispatch and realized that the... Oh my goodness, now I've got a total blank. Bethesda Barclay House had actually started and was renting out apartments at the time that the Clayton Baptist Church was still there. Or who is

removed. Did you put the photo on this thing? Yes,

the photo's here. So I thought, okay, I need to go back and find out exactly what was going on here. I knew it was always to the north of the Barclay house. It was there on that corner to the north. But it's really over to even further north. So I'm going to show you. We can just kind of flip through those and I say... So there we have the church there, and if you look at the side, you'll see when we get to the slide where the church is still existing at the time that the Barclay House is there. It's being built. So that establishes it as the fourth church in Clayton. It would just go all the way through pretty fast. Okay, right here you'll see the Barclay house is built. To the north directly to the north and there's still a little space there between that and the apartment building to the north that the church is still existing in 1961 the Barclay House is there in 1961. So it is to the north, directly to the north.

Right where the Clayton on the Park Tower is today.

If you go to the next slide, we see the construction that's going on. The Baptist Church is gone. And so that means it is October 8, 1961, which was the last service there. And it's after the fire in 1962. The next slide, we see again the Barclay House and construction is now beginning. So as we tried to establish where the plaque should go, it is a little bit further to the north than i think we we thought before

right so we so um again we're here to just review and approve the language right but just so you know that we've had matt uh we've matt has very kindly rushed over there and with me and looked at all the possible places to put the plaque on that corner where clayton on the park is now i mean where park tower is now and um There really isn't a spot in the public right-of-way. We can proceed to work with the condo owners to put it on their private property. And if that falls through, I mean, they might say no. They have to go through a process. They have to bring it to their board and do all this. So then we would look either on... at the corner across the street at Clayton on the park or even across the across Brentwood. Really in the shop park right there along that sidewalk so we have options of where to put the plaque, so the hope is my hope is that we will again review this language approve it or not, but approve it or amend it, but then. we will go ahead and order the plaque because it takes like six to nine months to get it. So we know we're going to put it in. We just not sure the precise locale. So we

have the language for, I think we go two slides. Okay. Right here. We have the language.

So, um, Maybe you just want to read it to us and then we'll take any comments.

Yeah, any questions. But on September 15th, 1894, Clayton residents Robert Taylor, William Taylor, Jefferson Tyler, William Bailey, and Robert Morris, acting as trustees, signed the deed of purchase for this lot to establish a church. The members built a small church which became the fourth church in Clayton. In 1907, the community built a beautiful brick church on this site. First Baptist Church of Clayton was the center of spiritual and social activities for the Black community of Clayton until October 8, 1961. That Sunday, the charismatic Reverend Rhodes preached his last sermon at First Baptist Church. The parishioners united in their faith, marched out of the church and the Reverend Dr. Rhodes locked the doors. The city had rezoned the predominantly black community from residential to commercial. The church was purchased and raised one of the last brick and mortar churches Testaments that once for several generations, a tightly knit, vibrant community existed here.

All right. Is this what you just read the most recent? Because it's different than what's in our report a little bit. Okay.

Well... Again, acting as trustees of a missionary.

Oh, yeah.

Okay,

that.

So this, yeah, in our copy it says acting as trustees of the Missionary Baptist Church. This doesn't have that. And, yeah, I think that's the only, okay, this one on the screen. Okay, okay, so I just want to, I didn't notice any other differences.

Oh, it does say it, yes.

Yeah, it says it here, but it doesn't say it here. It says acting as trustees, comma, here. This says acting as trustees of the Missionary Baptist Church of Clayton, comma. So I don't care which one it is, honestly, but I just want to make sure we're approving the right one. So the one on the screen, that's it. Yes?

I pulled that directly from our... from my file.

So I would thank you. You're the expert. She's our liaison. So there we have it. So I know, I don't know if anybody had questions about the language or well, I just,

I mean, I think the language is great. I'm a little like, I feel like the last sentence, I have a little trouble kind of I don't know. Is there, I feel like there could be a word added somewhere. I mean, is anybody like the church was purchased and raised one of the last brick and mortar testaments that once like housed a tightly knit fiber. Like, I mean, I don't know, I feel like I'm, and maybe I'm the only one reading.

I tend to agree. It's not making sense to me.

I'm reading it. And I'm like, wait, I, so, I mean, we could just kind of mod like, alter it a little bit.

I think the word once is what's I was gonna say throwing everybody. If you pull the word once that reads

right? Yeah,

more clearly.

So I'm sorry, but what are we? What are we wanting to change to? Do you have a suggestion?

I mean,

What was the what can you tell me what the issue was again i'm sorry

i'm just the last sentence it seemed it starts out great and I totally understand what is they're trying to say or what we're trying to say here, I just feel like. We're either just have to take out a word or add a word or something.

I think we're moving the ones. Take out the

It

still doesn't rewrite it.

better but it's still not there sorry

but hey so

the church was purchased and raised one of the last brick and mortar testaments that for several generations a tightly knit vibrant black community existed here i

don't i don't see what the issue is

i removed the word once when i read it so that's why it sounds okay i mean

the only other thing i would say is that represented for several generations a tight-knit vibrant black community that existed there I don't want to wordsmith it, but I agree. There's something structured.

My preference would be to modify it as little as possible while acknowledging I agree with you all that it is slightly awkward as it is. So that's why I would recommend that we simply delete the once. I think it makes it... readable without wordsmithing what I'm sure was greatly considered by our experts on the task force.

Yeah. That phrase was reworked a few times,

I can tell you. I want to just offer, I'm sympathetic, but to Gary's point, If we just said that once was and then read on, but then eliminate the existing here. That doesn't. And I think it sounds just right.

Could you read it as you propose it be amended? Yes.

The church was purchased and raised, one of the last brick-and-mortar testaments that once was, for several generations, a tightly knit, vibrant, blank community. Black community, excuse me. No? Still doesn't sound right?

No, I think the point is that...

Yeah,

well, and I think the point was that the community existed here, and it was erased. It

is a community that

existed

there. It's a testament that that community existed there, you know. So that's been, it's been difficult. Kevin, do you have a thought? I think

the location is the point of the plaque.

Like here. It

existed here,

right.

So. I'm trying to get it so it

doesn't

come up. I agree with you.

It's germane to the purpose. I understand. And I think just eliminating the word once scans the sentence.

networks you know the the what one of the things that makes a little bit awkward is the purchase and raise part if you said it the church the church was one of the last brick and mortar testaments that for several generations a tightly knit vibrant community black community existed here because you put that purchase and raise in there it's just a Part of the point is

that we rezoned it so that it could be purchased and demolished. So I think that's significant language

to

maintain.

No, I'm not suggesting. I'm just suggesting that that's kind of what kind of throws it off a little. So I like your suggestion, Becky, personally, because it has gone through a lot of review. So can you read your suggestion again? Yes. Okay.

The church was purchased and raised, one of the last brick-and-mortar testaments that for several generations a tightly knit, vibrant Black community existed here.

I think that works really well. Donna, are you okay with that? Is anybody not okay with that?

Is it awkward enough for you to vote no?

I move that we strike the once and whatever's grammatically correct as it relates to the comma and approve is in what was presented to us.

Just removing the word once. Second. Yeah, second. Okay. Is this... Would this be a roll call there? This wouldn't be, would this be a voice vote? Okay. Okay. So I like that. I personally think it's a good solution. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay, good. Donna, we have a plaque, so we're going to move forward and we'll get Alex to order it and we'll keep working. I'll, I'll, reach out again to the condo folks.

They did. So we're talking 1957, I think, zoning, and then a couple of years we've got the purchase of property, but Yes, there may be two or three families that are left, but they're coming from Wellston. They're coming from the city. They're coming form Webster. They're coming From Perkwood.

one woman who talked about getting up early on Sunday morning at about seven o'clock and getting ready and taking the streetcar or the bus, I'm not a St. Louisan, I'm sorry, from Wellston to Clayton. And this happened for about a year in her life after her family left Clayton.

So June has pointed out something interesting, which is, I think it's appropriate we're talking about this tonight because it's 63 years ago today that the church was was uh closed that's pretty interesting okay thank you jim for pointing that out to us okay donna thank you very much for all your work all right We have one other thing from the task force. And we have Chris me's I think on online to talk about it, but first the city manager will give the report yes,

this is another commemorative. commemoration this time for the sage nation, just like with the last item we spoke about this was a recommendation that came from the mayor's commemorative landscape task force. And just like the other item, we typically split the cost of these markers with the Clayton Community Foundation. With that, I'll turn it over to Chris to present it.

Hi, Chris. Thank you for being here.

Well, thank you. Just going through, June, if you don't mind putting up the PowerPoint. And we can skip those first few pages. You're all familiar with the guiding principles and the evaluation criteria. So we'll start with the Osage Nation Recognition Summary. And we'll kind of go through the first couple pages on that. So the mayor's commemorative landscape task force. Okay, keep going through. Yeah. Next. Oh, wait, I can do that right now. Okay. And we'll skip this one. Thank you. So the Mayor's Commemorative Landscape Task Force recommends a multi-dimensional phased commitment to commemorating the living heritage of Osage Nation in our city. Interestingly, dating back to AD 500 and up to 1825, ancestral Osage territory covered the state of Missouri as well as several surrounding states. There's trails all throughout our state and some of which that go through Clayton and in fact right through Oak Knoll Park. As French traders and settlers moved into the area, they established ties with the Osage who taught them how to trap beaver for their fur trade. They worked together, they became business partners, some even married. But when the fur trade dwindled and after the Louisiana Purchase, the United States government decided it was imperative to move all tribes farther west to make way for European settlers to take over the land and build a new country. So under pressure, the Osage ceded their land in Missouri beginning in 1808. And the cumulative effect of this, they were paid one cent for every six acres that were ceded at the time. So in the next slide, you know, there's this vision that it was also primitive and yay, you know, the Western civilization changed it. But it's true that by applying this egocentric knowledge of assumed superiority, Western civilization rationalized this usurpation of Indian sovereignty and seizing of their territory. And no reasonable mind could deny that the technology or hardware of Western civilization was superior to that of the Indian civilization. However, in matters of cultural intangibles, there are valid reasons to question the superiority of Western civilizations over Indian civilizations. There's no doubt that in 1500, a higher percentage of Indians enjoyed better housing, better nutrition, better clothing, and greater freedom than the conditions that prevailed in Western cities. So across St. Louis and throughout the United States, this forced removal of indigenous populations has been accompanied by erasure and misrepresentation of their histories, cultures, and continued presence. Today, there's efforts underway across greater St. Louis, the state of Missouri and nationwide to address this erasure by commemorating and embracing local indigenous communities, histories and cultures. You know, there's that effort that's gone on in Tower Grove Park as well. So ours would be a multi-dimensional phased approach that would recognize that our city stands on land that was once part of Osage Nation. And at this stage, what we're really seeking from the Board of Aldermen is a commitment in principle to the proposed commemorative effort outlining the rationale and recommending approach. And the next slide is the approval process, which I know you're all familiar with. So we won't belabor that. We'll go right to the evaluation criteria, which is the next slide. is the principal legacy of the namesake and our subject depicted fundamentally at odds with current community values. So the reality of this is that the United States maneuvered to displace communities and destroy their native culture under the guise of, quote, civilizing the native people who thrived, who lived and thrived on these lands. Incidentally, here's a little side effect. The way they did that because as people learned that there was this rich culture that went back to 500 A.D., They created a myth that said the current indigenous people murdered those people, and therefore they are uncivilized. So there was a lot of lies that went into making this up, by the way. So now that we have come to that, if we acknowledge that we are on these traditional homelands of the Osage Nation and we pay respect to elders, both past and present, so we're thanking them for stewardship of this land and paying greater respect to the Osage heritage. So the next criteria on the next slide is the context at the time. So the Cahokian culture, which centered around what is the present day city of Cahokia, Illinois, was the dominant culture from A.D. 1000 to A.D. 1350. And the Osage were part of that development. And when that society collapsed and nobody really knows why, the Osage then recentered their homelands in additional areas of central and southern Missouri. And again, it's kind of skipping through to that. After the Louisiana Purchase, that's when the United States decided that all of the Indians who lived east of the Mississippi had to relocate west of the Mississippi. And at that point, there were tribes who had lived on that land for many centuries. So they relocated people like there were already other tribes there. So a lot of this was really presumptive. On the next slide, you'll see here is how the land was seeded starting in 1808 all the way up to 1872. And you get to the final number of acres is 114,453,122. And in total, the Osage were paid $166,100 in cash annuities, lifestyles, blah, blah, blah for that. So that's the payment of one penny for every six acres. Going on to next slide. Part of that Osage Trail that runs right through Clayton, they do not share the exact location because often what we'll find is people come and try to loot or otherwise desecrate the land. But it's still very much a part of our city. And again, recognizing this heritage, we are telling the true story of Osage Nation, and we can begin to understand and embrace their history and legacy as part of the story of Clayton. Informed by our history, good and bad, we move forward to build a better future together. So what we'd like to do is add historical markers and interpretive signage in a public space to educate people about Osage Nation, the original inhabitants of the land we sit on today. which at some point have placement of public art or other interpretive content, but that's not in the current plan at this moment. And that we would do this work through a collaboration with Osage Nation. And in fact, they have already signed off to this proposal and made sure that all the data is correct. So the last criteria, we know that the displacement of Indigenous people was accompanied by erasure and misrepresentation of their history and their culture. And many communities in the region and across the U.S. are taking steps to commemorate and embrace local Indigenous histories through engagement with Native communities as we are doing here. And we're seeking to honor and acknowledge the indigenous people who historically occupied, nurtured and thrived on these lands. This commemorative effort is intended to provide a space where the tradition of this living culture can be reflected upon. There's still a vibrant Osage culture in our state. So we're just looking for your agreement in principle at this point to this commemorative effort. Any questions?

And just to summarize, the recommendation, which is what you saw, has been reviewed and approved, if you want, or reinforced by the CCF history, the Equity Commission, and also the Osage leadership in Oklahoma. So what we would move forward with next would be on our process would be once this recommendation is approved, we would come back. The very first order of business is to develop the plaque. That's the most basic way of commemorating and it's consistent with all of our other commemorations. And then once we get that accomplished and get that on order if we approve it. We would then begin to talk about other ways, other additional ways to recognize because I think the Osage leadership very definitely is looking for more than a plaque but it's really kind of a clean slate as to what you know we would want to do. We've talked and I don't want to get ahead of ourselves. We have met with Tony Tony Syrian, our director of parks to talk about some things that could be done in oak knoll park and she had some good ideas about just a space that would be kind of a place that you would call. Osage Grove or whatever. Maybe you would do some plantings that were appropriate for there when they existed here like they've done in Tower Grove Park. We started talking in that realm, but that has not been addressed with the Osage themselves. And so we're just really at the beginning stage here of the recommendation. So if anybody have questions for Chris or me about this recommendation or... Yeah, go

ahead. No questions, just thank you for the thorough work and the inclusion of a lot of voices, and I look forward to see where this goes.

Yep, I support what you've described. Thank you. Anything over here?

Sounds good. I guess I think it's a fine idea, and I have no opposition to it. I'm struggling, though, with trying to... connects something that has such a broad reach over our entire state to Clayton specifically. And is there anything unique or special about Clayton other than perhaps the trail? Or is it the kind of thing that it's one of many things that we would put in Remembrance Park as an example? I heard the Oak Knoll. So I think it's great to recognize. I'm just trying to understand how this fits in with the other kinds of things that we've done, because it doesn't have that kind of location specific tie to it or uniqueness to it.

I'll let Chris see if she would like to say anything first.

Yeah, I would say an answer to that. Yes, it was all over the state of Missouri. So everyone in the state of Missouri has a responsibility to acknowledge it. obviously Clayton didn't exist then, St. Louis didn't exist then. This goes back to 500 AD. But recognizing the heritage of our country and in this case, the state of Missouri and putting that into context to what we've lost as far as the cultural richness of knowing this history I think it's incumbent upon us to speak to it. We can't get caught up in our little Clayton world instead of the big world that exists around the entire country and in our state as well.

And I think you'll find if you, so a great example is, uh, if you haven't been to it, there's a great and very extensive, which I'm not sure we would be able to do something like this. We wouldn't, I don't think, but, um, a very extensive installation at Tower Grove Park to commemorate the Osage presence in Missouri, but also in the location where Tower Grove Park sits. And so again, I think you install these recognitions. They're really educational in nature at some point, and people begin to understand the history of their community goes way beyond whatever we're doing and whatever we did, and it's enriching for the community, and it's the right thing to do.

So the only thing that strikes me is that this is such a vast thing. It seems like it would be something that would be appropriate, at least from the Osage point of view, that the state as a whole took on, the history museum took on. I'm not opposed to any of this. I want to be clear about that. It just sometimes it feels like maybe it's not measuring up to the significance of the event to have a mere plaque. Yeah.

Well, I think a mere plaque probably isn't significant enough, and that's why we would hope that we would go on and do some other things. That's just step one. But I think you're right. I think the whole state of Missouri should do some kind of recognition of the Osage. Maybe they have, for all I know. I don't know in the state capitol or whatever. I don't disagree with that at all, but we're doing kind of our part by doing this. That's how I look at it.

I would just add, it seems like the, that we've been presented with like a place connection and that there is evidence that the Osage trail passed through Clayton. Like I didn't know that. And I would love for people who are exposed to this to just be aware of that. It's like an actual real reminder that like, there were indigenous people or other people here well before, like my ancestors, direct ancestors. The Osage

gave us in their original information they gave us, they said that Oak Knoll Park would be the closest approximation to something that they felt would be significant.

There were many trails throughout the state or throughout the land as well, but Rick, I would say I agree with you that one plaque isn't enough. But I would hope that we as leaders in the metro area, I would hope every community would have a plaque at some point or have some kind of recognition. And so you know what they say about the thousand mile journey. And I feel like we should take the first step that we can.

Thank you.

I think it'd be great, too, because I think the kids and the fourth graders really study Missouri history. part of that at the beginning is talking about the Osage. And so it, I think it would be great. I think it's a great idea to put it in the park and hopefully, you know, obviously the hope would be that kids might see a sign or something, some sort of plaque or, you know, marker and that talks about it and, you know, generate questions. And it's a little bit more like outside the classroom and, Oh, you know, Hey mom and dad, guess what? This is what I'm learning about. And so I think it's

I mean, maybe it's the nature of plaques. Plaques, we have been tying to a place, yet the Osage, you know, but black displacements happened all over the country as well. But we have a church that we're commemorating in school. We don't always need a specific place. But if there's some place in the state hasn't recognized or in Clayton hasn't recognized, that's great. But there's still this still is the weave of our history that is very good to bring forward and to recognize. I'm supportive of doing it too. Very good. Jeff, did you have any comment?

I'm a history major at heart, so I'm all for putting as many plaques everywhere as we can put. I just want to make sure that I'm understanding. We are approving putting up a marker that we don't know what it says yet, and we're committing to considering additional options if and when they come to us. Is that what's in front of us? I just want to make sure I'm understanding what I'm approving. Yeah, that is. And

the marker copy will come later and you will approve it then. But I'm sorry, because maybe we should have gone through the process. I didn't realize that you were unfamiliar with it. But there's a whole process that we follow here. And the first is... Put that slide up

really quick. That's fine. I just wanted to make sure I kind of understood like what... When we presumably approved this, I just wanted to do what we were approving. So we're approving... Or authorizing the placement of a plaque to be later considered, consider the text later and also to agree to consider other potential options that are also going to come later.

Yeah, we're not even asking you to approve a plaque at this point. We're just asking for the approval. It's like a

conceptual review. In theory, we support it. Move forward and come back with more details.

That's what I got. I wasn't sure when I looked at the memo. It seemed to talk about the plaques. I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were approving.

Yeah, so this process, if you take a look at it at some point, we do this. The group researches the topic. They write the recommendation, including the history and the research. They bring it to the... They bring it to the Equity Commission and the CCF history group for review and any changes. And then it comes here for us to review as right, a concept that we are, yes, we're going to recognize this history. We like that. We want to do that. And then later we'll come back with the how, which is generally speaking always a plaque first. And then there may be other things that follow that would be recommended, not necessarily a given. Okay, and the language of the plaque, like you saw tonight, would be reviewed and approved by this board? Right. Okay, does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. Okay, so we are, looks like we are good on that. Do we need to vote?

In consensus.

We can be in consensus? Okay. All right. All right. Is that good? All right. I think everybody, we're in consensus, so we can move on. Chris, thank you so much for taking time out to do this for us and for all your hard work on writing this and the many recommendations you've written.

Thanks, Chris.

Okay. All right, so now we can go back to the original order of our agenda, and I think the first... Again, we're in the city manager's report with the monument maintenance.

Yes, the Public Works Department is requesting approval of a construction contract for monument maintenance fiscal year 24 project with the Harlan Company. This project includes preventative maintenance, repair and reconstruction of various subdivision monuments under city maintenance throughout the city. The project also includes repairs for a stone retaining wall along Maryland Avenue and repairs to a brick wall along the city parking lot at 103 North Central Avenue. Two bids were open on August 30th, 2024, and the Harlan Company submitted the lowest responsive responsible base bid and the amount of $393,026. The final engineer's estimate for this work was $334,908. That was essentially our budgeted amount to stay within the funds budgeted for monument repairs in fiscal year 24 and fiscal year 25. Repair and or reconstruction of four monuments are recommended for removal from the project award. We will address these locations in fiscal year 2026 unless savings are realized during this year's project. Staff recommends that the Board of Aldermen approve the ordinance authorizing a contract with the Harlan Company in the amount of $324,754 plus a contingency of $10,154 totaling $334,908 for the monument maintenance contract fiscal year 24. And Mr. Matt Malek, our director of public works, is here this evening if you have any questions.

All right. Thank you. All right. So I'll open up for discussion. Yeah. Any questions about this? Comments?

Comments. Just, Matt, thank you. I mean, I know the gentleman on Maryland will be thrilled that this project is going forward. So thank you. And, um, I'm still blown away by the cost of all this but I know that monuments are important to our neighborhoods. I, you know, I think we have to probably think forward as we go forward thinking about whether to potentially remove some that are beyond repair I don't know I think it's just something to think about as we go forward, so. But Matt, thank you for getting this together. And it is, I am even just seeing this big list. I'm amazed at all the ones that there's a really big list. So thanks.

Right. Okay. Anything? Becky, anything?

Yeah, I just want to make sure I understand. So I am going to ask you questions, Matt. So is the end plan that we landed on for everything that's listed in this list that we were given to be done under this contract or some portion of it? That's what... And furthermore, is it, there's some references to FY24 and then, or 25? So what is that, the timing? Obviously, I guess if we didn't do it in 24, that's ending. So we're going to do it in 25.

Correct. The intent is the list. Everything will be done. When we originally put the scope together, we were basing off an inventory we did in 2019 or 20. Yeah. So we included... portions that we thought might be future years, but we wanted to go ahead and get the cost. It took a couple bids to get this kind of nailed down. It's a little different than we normally do. But we have a combination of funds through what was in the capital fund. We had the capital project specifically for the Maryland wall. We had some insurance funds for one that was hit at Brentwood and Maryland. That would be some revenue, some operating revenue, and then also the 25 CIP funds that we had allocated for kind of the second phase of this. So we're effectively getting nearly all of those that were scheduled for 24 and 25 under our original plan, just utilizing those various fund sources.

Okay. So you know my neighborhood will be really glad to see the white on dartford is on here one question is that you have you actually have to listed as in the hillcrest subdivision, but the first one is 6309 why down, which is over by more like Ellen wood or something.

Can you say two, number two?

Yeah, no, sorry. There are two Hillcrest subdivisions on the list, M27 and M28. M27 is on the island at 6309 Y down. So I'm thinking that's not Hillcrest, I don't think. It

may have gotten flagged as that. But yeah, 6309 Y on island. And was M28 taken out? Yes, that one was taken out. Pushed to 26. Which one was taken

out? The Dartford monument is not part of this. It's actually the reduced.

How do I know that? Where did it tell me that?

Go to exhibit C, not exhibit B. Exhibit C. Right. Exhibit B was the bid tabulation. Exhibit c shows the reduction in scope. We have an issue that we need to talk through on that monument that's at Dartford. Basically, there's an agreement between the neighborhood and the city. When the city took over that monument, the city is responsible for minor repair. The neighborhood is responsible for major repairs and replacement. This falls into the major repair and replacement category. I've had conversations with Stan over there, Stan Mulliville. I know. And so it's an item we need to talk through because we can't just put it on and approve it because we have an agreement to the contrary. So it would take action by the Board of Aldermen to change that arrangement before we would be authorized to pay for a full replacement of that monument. So in my conversations with Mr. Mulliville, this is something that will be coming up at some point. I'm sure he's talked to you as well. Alderman Patel.

Oh yes, very much so. It comes up every time we see each other. But so can you, the two distinct bids from Harland and Leonard Masonry then? I'm sorry that I over, that I misunderstood the exhibits. And so, but the two bids came from Harlan and Leonard Masonry. Harlan was overall obviously the responsive and low cost. However, Leonard Masonry seemed to think they could do the work on our Hillcrest Dartford monument for $4,000. So what do we make of that?

My so the location at why down darford has two different monuments we listed it as preventative maintenance, the one on the West side of the intersection is a reconstruction. We believe that the number put in by harlan included both of those monuments, the reconstruction and the preventative maintenance on the side.

Okay. So could we be more clear with Harlan that we actually just wanted the preventive maintenance and we want that to keep going forward so that we don't end up needing total reconstruction of both?

Yeah, since it was... put that on the bid form. We tried to just reduce what we had and get confirmation from Harlan. That is one of the items using either the contingency or savings realized along the way, we would propose more than likely to change order in as capacity allows.

Okay. All right.

It'd be similar for other things we may be pushed. If we can realize some savings, we bid it as three different items. It would be the preventative maintenance, the repair or reconstruction.

Yeah.

We may realize some savings, we may have some that there's additional costs and we'll have to evaluate. But that was the hope.

All right. I'm okay

with that. Thank you. Other questions or comments? I

Just a clarification. David had answered one of my other questions already, but on Exhibit C, when there's an item listed and there's a no dollar amount, but it's still on the list, does that mean it's included in one of the other monuments in the bid, or what does that mean?

There's a no dollar amount. Could you give me one example?

Sure, I'd be happy to. So let's say M42 Moreland's Westwood Y-down repair and it's a zero. It's not a zero, there's just no number. So M42 or the big reconstruction M39. Reconstruction sounds to me like it should be a big number, but there's no number.

Yes, so those would be... believe those fall to 26 due to the larger scale of the cost um

so i should look at it as those aren't going to be done in the fiscal year as opposed to their just wanted to make sure i understood how to read

the original bid tab i'm sorry i'm looking at Yeah, if there is no cost that is not proposed to be done with this project this year. There's some of these that since this was developed, we may have had repairs on that they've fallen out of needing to do a major repair. There was maybe a recent reconstruction due to an accident or something falling, but I would have to get more details on the specific

Okay. I just, my only point is I don't want to represent to anyone that we're working on this one. In fact, that we're not going to work on those or we already did one or the other. So it's what you're telling me.

Yeah. If there's no cost in there right now, there's not work planned.

That's all I have. Just Matt for clarification, exhibit B, I think we've covered some items. Exhibit B that are not listed on exhibit C. And I think the note said we removed four. So I'm just making sure. So the ones that were on B, like some of the ones in Polo that aren't on C are the four we removed. And then we've got the ones Rick's talking about that were basically also removed because they've been zeroed out.

That's

correct. So there's more than four that have been removed from the original group. And

that's my comment was there may have been other work that had taken place where there's no longer work required on that. The four removed identified, yes, there's three in Polo and then the one at Y down Dartford. Other ones that will be planned for 26 would be M05, which is Crescent and Clayton. There's some larger reconstruction to take place on 29 and 30 in Claverac Park, Rodney Clayton, Crestwood Clayton. All of those combined will total closer to $200,000 depending on the final result.

Okay. Thanks. I just want

to make sure I understood that. Sorry for all the confusion with all these minutes.

Oh, that's great. I got one more,

Oh, go ahead.

There is some question about, I know a couple of those monuments, the walls are not. They're on private property or the pillars are maybe on the public side. Many of them are lower walls too and didn't seem to be as much of a potential risk if they fell into worse repair within the next year. But overall, we feel like they can easily sustain to FY26 to have it completed then.

That's correct. The intent is everything on the list will be addressed in some capacity from what we originally talked about in 2019 through the end of 2026. Thank

So, Matt, just so we're all familiar with certain areas where we live, I think, is one of the things happening here. And so, just as a question similar to Becky's question, number, it's M33. You know, it's The obviously Harlan had the very much lower bid, but on that particular item it's like 10 times higher than what Leonard put in and I just wondered is in its preventative so I just wondered, is that a mistake or that

sounds like this.

preventative would be um less invasive lower cost per square foot if you want to think about it that way i would say harlan has the benefit of having worked in the city of clayton many years and being familiar perhaps with it that led to the difference but

okay

yeah so it

might not turn out to be 34 000 then when they actually do it is that what you're saying

It may not be being preventative maintenance. I'm trying to remember that exact location. That's probably one of the, if that's preventative maintenance, it's one of the larger walls. So some cleaning on that could be for, if it's the longer stretch, I'm thinking down along Clayton road.

No, this is a Crestwood. Oh, Crestwood

whiteout. I'm sorry.

Sorry. It's just a post essentially with a little tiny wall near it. So just, you know, I I'm, I'm just noticing really the difference in the dollars is.

Yeah, and that's a situation to look at the details on that one. I think they were assuming what needed to be done there. They might know that yeah it's going to require a little bit more repair for us as we looked at the condition because we did ask each contractor bidding on us to visit the sites and look at each location.

Okay,

there were the condition.

Well, it looks a little out of whack for a preventative, just saying. So you'll check on that when it comes time. I don't want to split hairs with you, but just to bring your attention to it.

Sure.

Okay.

And if it is, that would be another way we can look at pushing if need be.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well... I mean, I think the general idea is there's so many details here with so many monuments and they bid each one and they may or may not have done a real great detailed job on each particular monument. So it's kind of our job to make sure that they don't charge us more than they should. On an

individual basis, I think, yeah, you might see some variances, but when we looked at the overall picture, we felt like with what we had planned for the upcoming years in the budget, we were getting it done, and it's not getting any cheaper.

Okay. Right, right. It's not getting any

I'll introduce Bill No. 7042, approving a contract with the Harlan Company for the Monument Maintenance Project to be read for the first time by title only.

Second. Okay. Any discussion? All right, Mr. City Attorney.

Bill No. 70421st reading, an ordinance approving a contract for the Monument maintenance contract fiscal year 24.

All those in favor?

Aye. The opposed? Aye. I move that the board give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of bill number 7042 on the day of its introduction. Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Let the minutes reflect. The board has given unanimous consent.

I'll introduce bill number 7042, approving a contract with the Harlan Company for the Monument Maintenance Project to be read for the second time by title only. Second.

Any discussion? City Attorney.

Bill number 7042, second reading and consideration for adoption. An ordinance approving a contract with the Harlan Company for the Monument Maintenance Contract, fiscal year 24.

Alderwoman McAndrew. Aye. Alderwoman Buse. Aye. Alderman Patel.

Aye.

Aldermen Gary Feder.

Aldermen Fader.

Aye.

Aldeman Rick Hummell.

Aldeman Hummel.

Aye.

Aldemann Yorg.

Aye.

Mayor Harris. Aye. Thank

you. The Livable Communities Master Plan.

Yes, this is a resolution for consideration to adopt the Clayton livable community plan. The consultant presented the final report at the September 10th, 2024 board of Alderman meeting. The livable community master plan is a joint effort between the city of Clayton's departments of public works and our, and department of parks and recreation. This plan will update the 20 or 2007 parks and recreation master plan in 2009 bikeable walkable communities plan. The planning process commenced in May of 2023 and wrapped up in August of 2024. There were four distinct phases of the project with a great deal of public engagement throughout. Following adoption of the plan, the Board of Aldermen and Parks and Recreation Commission will receive the plan recommendations and prioritize the action items. Some recommendations will require long range planning and budgeting and others will be implemented with lower effort and cost. Additional public engagement may be needed on key items as implementation continues. Staff believes that the Livable Community Master Plan 2024 was prepared with significant public input and is reflective of comments made by various stakeholder groups, commissions, boards, and the public. Staff further believes that the plan will serve the city well into the future and is ready to begin implementation. Staff recommends approval of the resolution as presented.

Good, thank you. And we had a presentation on this couple weeks ago, and it was didn't get to talk a lot about it then, but it was a good kind of lead in to give us time to review it so we'll just go around and see if anyone has questions or at this point, I think. My my thought is on this is that you know it's it's it's an incredible plan it's been really well really well done um. the real crux of our conversations are going to be on implementing it and what are the priorities and how are we going to do those things. So, but again, we'll have questions and comments now.

No, that was just kind of going to be my comment though. Yeah. I kind of look forward to seeing what next steps were like similar to what we did, I think with the comprehensive plan, you know, understanding what those immediate goals are and what things will be more long-term. But, yeah, I mean, I think it's a great plan. It was very easy to read and go through. So, yeah, I look forward to seeing what staff works through to, again, see what our short-term and long-term goals will be from it.

Yeah, there's a lot there. I'm just going to make a couple comments, one being, like I told Melissa earlier, we can access partnerships beyond just the ones that they identified. And I hope that we can do that. Some of the things that I wonder about, I hope that we do get both a base and a goal versus just saying, you know, measure of success is how much money we spend on something. Or for example, with ADA compliance, I'm sure staff will do this. Where are we now? We need better ADA compliance. Well, great. Well, are we almost there or not versus just It's just a few more metrics behind it I think will help a lot and help us measure success and be accountable as well. I think we're going to have some big issues once we talk about this focus on vibrancy and walkable and bikeable streets. We also try to keep, we have car issues. And we're going to having to talk about if we were truly a streetcar city at one point How are we going to reduce the need for cars within the interior of our city so that we can have the open streets and all these things? Those are going to be bigger decisions that we should be ready for. And also, as we talk about ourselves being a regional destination, I don't really know what we each think that means. And even with the Center of Clayton, as we look for non-resident versus resident membership, there's There again, there's got to be data there. Where is the right spot where it still supports our community, yet we're able to serve our larger community and have the resources to offer broad programming? There's a sweet spot. It's not just keep increasing, increasing, increasing membership. And I hope that we can figure out what that metric is to support. find that. Something else I found interesting is they talk about making sure we have connectivity with our buses and Metrolink. We have to work on our culture. If we want Clayton residents to use those things, we have to make an effort to make that happen. For example, something that always came up with the school district every five or six years, people talk about busing across. If you live on the east side, parents were contacting how do we get our kids to the high school if you live on The west side, it's why don't we have buses to Y down? And then it goes away for a while and comes up again. For a while, MetroLink did give passes. I don't know if it was supported by the city or the school district to help kids from the east side ride a bus down when it gets very close to the high school. If we're serious about connecting to our public transportation, we need to start giving exposure and address it in a more intentional way than just hoping it happens because it's not the culture of our city right now. City Council Chambers, Those are just some of the comments something else in here was mentioned of handling house and we had talked about focusing in what and how we want to handle handy handling house going forward and. City Council Chambers , versus just having it a goal to make it more active, we still need to have that conversation.

Yeah, thanks. I support adoption of the plan and I would just like to share, I did have one resident who reached out to me who actually read the plan and expressed concern that feedback they had given in a public meeting did not appear to be emphasized in the way that they hoped. And so just for all of your awareness, I would like to share with you the idea that in order to make our streets safer for pedestrians and vehicles and like just a smoother transportation network, there was a belief that considering a couple of them becoming one way could be really significant in improving that. So I just want to get that on the record, make sure we're thinking about it. And so that's all.

Okay,

over here.

I think it's a very comprehensive plan, and so I appreciated its structure and how it reads. I want to just emphasize something I think that Susan had just said. One of the things that I think has come clear for me, at least, is the theme of the walkability, the pedestrian safety, the busy roads, the whole lifestyle aspect. It's made it a A bigger priority, I think, or at least a common theme and focus with the residents. So when we have coffees or gatherings or all these community events, this seems to be a recurring topic. Now we have some structure built around it. And so I think that's a great outcome out of all this. My questions really are sort of the who and when. I know the what we have to figure out and how to prioritize it. But just broadly speaking, is this something that gets, put to department heads and then goes to boards and commissions or to us or just big picture what's sort of the next step on the who and then the when. Is this something that we'll try to start on this calendar year or what's the idea there?

Yeah, we'd like to have a meeting by year end certainly with the Board of Aldermen to discuss those priorities. This one's a little bit different than the comprehensive plan and that we have really two departments that are more or less splitting this. And of course, on the parks and recreation side, there's conversations that will need to be had with that particular commission. So we'll sit down as staff and kind of walk through how we want to have those priority and implementation discussions. It's just set up a little bit differently than what we've done with the comprehensive plan and figuring out when do we plug in the Parks and Recreation Commission to on some of these items, I would envision some sort of joint meeting in your future. To go through those as well, and if you look through this, you know the comprehensive plan, those are really big items, a lot of those take a lot of work and a lot of public engagement. There were a lot of things in here that we could accomplish very quickly at a low cost and so identifying those right away with the board of all the minute plan and parks and recreation Commission is going to be one of our top priorities. because we think we can pick off quite a few of these almost immediately. But the bigger picture items, you know, we need to talk and figure out from a priority standpoint, you know, where does the Shaw Park area, the ice rink area fall into this? I know that's been on a lot of people's minds as we went through this process. A lot of residents, that's what they wanted to talk about was what's going to happen there. So I think framing those larger discussions is going to be out of the gate. one of our big priorities, along with those really small, easy to do items. Thank you. It's all coming up. So

generally it's fine. I will go to the points I've made before and David kind of alluded to is what I'm concerned about is passing a plan that we can't afford. And as we've covered before, we've maxed out all our parks and rec sales tax. We're going to max out potentially our capital improvement sales tax. So my concern is as we get into this, the little ones we can pick off that David's saying with low cost, that's great. But we have a plan that we don't currently have a designated amount of money to pay for any of it. So that's, my concern is not with the plan. My concern is actually how we pay for the stuff we're now telling residents that we want to do. So that's I would just leave that there because I think that's going to continue to be a challenge for us on both these plans.

That is always the challenge. Were you going to say something else? Yeah, I mean, that's definitely been something that I think we've talked about, at least I know I've mentioned it a few times since we decided to do this plan. You know, what are we going to do at the end when we can't afford it? But I think there are definitely things we can't afford and we can't forget that at some point We do have support from our community for certain things, and we can ask our community for that support through the Community Foundation and other ways. So I think there's hope for some of these projects, even though we look at our budget and we don't have surpluses. I just want to compliment Tony and Matt and the whole team. This is a great plan. I mean, I don't think there's any stone... left unturned and everything fits together so nicely there's a lot of overlap here on public works and parks and that's something that's not that easy to just coordinate and make it look seamless. But you did that. I think there's some big sort of big ideas in here that we will think about. I can see a lot of topics for our next retreat coming out of this plan, our role as a regional hub for recreation. We are that, so what do we do with that? And honestly, why is it our responsibility to provide these facilities for the region? I mean, how can we get the region to support that more than they are right now? Because again, we come down to the fiscal part of it. We talk about getting business community support in here. We don't have a chamber now. So how are we going to organize ourselves around the businesses to support them and get them to participate and also help us? And that's kind of a big nugget. we heard in here that, I mean, everyone loves events. Everyone loves the events we do. They want more. And how are we going to do that? We're getting to the point where we're sort of maxed out on events, both with public works workers, but also with Gary and his team. So I know it's mentioned somewhere that maybe we need an extra person. And that's, again, a big idea that if we want to be that vibrant community, we're going to have to support the means to get there, and I think we want to be that we may we have to figure out how to charge for some of our events or whatever we gotta we gotta wrap our arms around that and embrace it and. move forward with it because it also it impacts so many other goals like being more welcoming or being more diverse. all those things. So I know, I just can't say enough about the plan. I think it's great. You know, I know we'll see priorities and that I'm very eager to get that done. I was hoping we could do it really soon. We might have some other things, you know, clogging up our calendar, I understand. But, you know, I'm eager to get to that. So thank you very much for all your work and we'll be awaiting the priority discussion. Yeah. So at this point, we just need to approve this plan. We had Kathleen Gund was online, but has she raised her hand at all? I can't see her here. Okay. Looks like she has no question. So, okay. Alderman McAndrew.

I move to approve resolution number 2024-18, adopting the livable communities master plan.

Second, any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Okay, very good. Again, great work. I'm sorry, Tony's not here to hear all the kudos. Matt, you'll pass them on to her. And Ana, I've left you out, Ana, I'm sorry. I view you, I've got you on the comprehensive plan bucket and that, okay. All right, so next is the Green Dining Alliance Program.

Yes, at the July 16th, 2024 Sustainability Advisory Committee meeting, the committee unanimously recommended that the city fund 100% of the costs for restaurants to join the Green Dining Alliance or GDA. The committee presented information on the GDA and the proposed program at the September 10th, 2024 Board of Aldermen meeting. The Sustainability Advisory Committee also discussed the potential formation of a green dining district in the city of Clayton. For a district to be established, 25% of independent restaurants within a specific commercial area must be GDA certified. Becoming a green dining district would bring recognition to Clayton as well as increased visibility for the participating restaurants. With an estimated 50 to 60 eligible restaurants, the cost for 100% participation would be between $12,500 and $15,000 for initial certification. and then $10,000 to $12,000 for the subsequent recertifications. This would be a reimbursement program and would be subject to annual appropriation by the Board of Aldermen. The Sustainability Advisory Committee has recommended that the Board of Alderman approve funding for the Green Dining Alliance program, thereby supporting restaurant certification and sustainable waste management practices in Clayton.

Good. Oh, okay, I'm sorry. Thought you wanted to tell me something. All right, I'll open the discussion. Any questions, comments? We'll go around.

Um, well, I mean, I think part of our part of the plan we were just talking about, our residents do want to see us embracing sustainability. So, um, I think it's important that we continue to raise awareness in our city and certainly support restaurants, um, to provide more sustainable waste management practices. So, um. I would be supportive of this.

I'm looking forward to us moving forward on this in Clayton. We have even have a couple of restaurants. with other locations that do have the certification, but they haven't gotten it for the Clayton one. So I think there are a couple that may be primed to get involved quickly. And I'll be thrilled if we come even close to spending a chunk of the money that we're all getting toward this. I did have a couple... The language changes and i'll make them an amendment when it comes time to that I was concerned that under right, maybe I make it now emotion for an amendment, I was concerned that, under the paragraph one. It says it says show reimburse restaurants 100% of the fees related associated with GDA and what we what I think we really want to reimburse is. the fees paid to the alliance, not the cost of going over to composting and everything else. So I just had asked.

That feels like a good catch. I know.

I just asked that that be clarified. I can make a motion for amendment now or after people make their comments.

Let's just go ahead and after people make all their comments, we may have other things that change. Okay.

Great. I totally support this. I would just reiterate, I'm sure you all caught this, but we only need 25% to become a green dining institution. district. And so it is likely that our actual costs will be something like half if we're lucky of what's here. And if we are fortunate enough to get greater participation, I'd be thrilled to spend this money on this. I know plenty of people who actually choose where to eat out based on participation in this program. And so I do think it is actually a vehicle that can attract people who may or may not otherwise think about coming into Clayton to eat.

Okay, very good. Comments, questions?

I'm just, I'm supportive. I'm just curious about David if you've had the opportunity to think about how we would promote and administer this or is that something that you'll think about after we approve it.

Yeah, so we've talked about it a little bit but not in any great detail. We do have a really good list of restaurants here in the city. So we'll be reaching out to them and sending letters and making calls if we're not hearing from anybody. It

is relatively easy. That's really what I was curious about. This one will

be. Okay, yes. That's all. Part of that was my question is that I was trying to think about what the, what additional costs the city may wind up having just in terms of admin, but it sounds like it's not going to be much. The only thing I would add is tacking onto Susan's amendment is I'd like to build a cap as to how much it's going to cost. I don't, I'm concerned if we're going to build into the approval certification and renewable certifications, and it's going to be in the budget every year. We all know things tend to grow. And I think once it gets in the budget, we'll completely forget that it's there. So I prefer to have through the process just a cap on what we're going to have to spend for this. And then we have to actually approve anything higher than that. Again, I don't think the dollar amount bothers me all that much. It's the idea that all these little programs start adding up and we'll probably never look at it again if it's not somehow capped that we have to some point. Three years from now when we do the budget, it'll still be the same number unless we approve, unless we have to go through a separate process

to increase

the cap.

What cap would you propose?

I'm fine with the 100% that they're talking about, the $12,000 or whatever. It's more about just making sure we... look at the number and it doesn't become more over the years than we expect it to be.

So would that mean you would consider offering an amendment to like the Would doing that be meaningful? Like if he would make an amendment to cap it at the maximum amounts listed in this proposal, then it would have to come before us again if we got like twice as many restaurants in Clayton and they all wanted to do this program or what? Or is it just part of the budget process? Or if they increase

their rates and then it was going to be $15,000 or $20,000 to recertify everybody. That's just what I want to make sure that it doesn't just get lost in... I'd

rather do it

this way. Rather than including all that in the resolution or changing any of that, or even including it in the approval, if you all can just tell me what number you're comfortable with for fiscal year 25, we'll include that in the budget amendment. So you'll see that part amount be added to this year's annual budget. I will tell you that going forward, we're going to look at participation. We're going to look how much we have budgeted. When we do the budget, we go through every single line item we have So this is something we'll take a look at. And if participation is significantly lower than the budgeted amount, then we'll bring that to the board's attention if we need to make a reduction. But as far as this initial year, this isn't something that's in the fiscal year 25 budget. We could add it through a budget amendment. You just let me know what that amount is. That's what the first quarter budget amendment will reflect.

I mean, I'm not concerned about this year. What I'm concerned about is that in that number one, we're going to, we're proving the ability to pay for all the recertifications for however long we want this program. And I'm just concerned about what the recertifications are going to cost three years from now, four years from now. And it could start to, I mean, it's a good problem to have, but it's still a cost that we're consenting to now for future years and have

We never are approving future budgets in passing ordinances or resolutions. So, like, to David's point, this will come up before us. It'll

be tucked in the budget that, let's be honest, when we get to a line item, we're probably not going to look at a $10,000 line item in the budget.

Well, it says reimbursement shall be made only if sufficient funds have been appropriated by the board program. So that's when we appropriate what we want. In the resolution, we

specifically say, correct, in the sentence after that, this is subject to annual appropriation as well. I think, Alderman Jeffery Yorg, your point is you just want to make sure that We're keeping tabs on what the participation rate is and then what the cost of the program is over time. And if there are changes there, I mean, we could certainly notify you if that starts to occur. But it is subject completely to board's annual appropriation. So if this is something you want to roll back or change in some way, let us know and we'll incorporate that in the budget accordingly.

specifically say, correct, in the sentence after that, this is subject to annual appropriation as well. I think, Alderman York, your point is you just want to make sure that We're keeping tabs on what the participation rate is and then what the cost of the program is over time. And if there are changes there, I mean, we could certainly notify you if that starts to occur. But it is subject completely to board's annual appropriation. So if this is something you want to roll back or change in some way, let us know and we'll incorporate that in the budget accordingly.

Paragraph number three also specifies that the city reserves the right to modify or terminate based on financial or other considerations from time to time.

I think what we're talking about is just the difference between having it identified in this resolution versus just as a practice of the staff and the board to make a point to track it and review it each year. And so that comes down to a matter of trust ourselves and our staff to do that. I do, but I'm okay with changing it as well. I don't feel strongly about it one way or the other. So we know what the budgeted amount would be this year, right? So the most would be $15,000. Right. So that we know, and that we know is going to go into our budget amendment. So that's this year.

Okay. And then based on how much gets used this year, you'll be able to predict for sure how many are going to need annual recertification. Like that will be clear at any given time. And then we'll be like looking at trends and estimating for initial certification. Yeah,

right. So going forward in subsequent years, we should expect... best $10,000 to $12,000 of recertifications and then some additional cost for new restaurants who also want to be certified, whatever that number might

be. I think this is expecting full participation. You would see recertification at $10,000. So I think we could reasonably expect, you know, if we got half participation, that would be excellent. I really think this first year, you're probably looking at going

to be a quarter to half. Yeah. You're looking at quarter to half right now. Right. Yeah.

these these amounts that you see here are full participation by every restaurant initial year and every subsequent year okay

yeah and one other thing to keep it to keep an eye on as well is again we're traveling state at a marriott and they had a big sign telling everyone that there's their zero waste restaurant so you know in their restaurant so again when we're out talking this up with restaurants they do want the publicity it is becoming something people look for so If we put it in city views or something else as people sign up, I think that would be helpful as well. Okay, I'm going to make, I move to amend the resolution to support Clayton restaurants in joining the Green Denny Alliance. You correct the spelling of resolve in the therefore clause and section one, paragraph one to read as follows. The city shall reimburse restaurants for 100% of the restaurant fees paid to GDA employees for certification and recertification subject to appropriation of such funds by the board of aldermen

okay okay so um all right so we've had an amendment proposed and seconded

If the maker would consider a friendly amendment. Fees paid by the restaurant to the GDA so that the fees have to be paid first and we reimburse as opposed to funding the first initial payment of fees. 100% of the fees paid by the restaurant, to the GDA, for certification and recertification, comma, subject to appropriation, et cetera, et cetera. So

moved.

Second.

All those in favor of the amended? Aye. Any opposed? Okay, and now we would move to approve the resolution as amended.

I'll move to approve resolution number 2024-19 as amended to support Clayton Restaurants in joining the Green Dining Alliance program. Second. Any

discussion? Okay, all those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay, very good. wonderful um i think that is all of our business on our agenda um we can do a round table and i also think we we want to discuss the timing of some of our upcoming meetings for the washington university overlay so um let's get that out of the way first shall we david you want to review the situation

sure so what we have is uh last night we had favorable recommendations on the Concordia CUP and then the text amendments and rezoning for both the Big Bend overlay and the South 40 overlay. And so we had advertised a public hearing for October 22nd, and that posting should be out already on it? Okay, that's what I thought as far as the publication on that because it has to be 15 days in advance. So we had gone ahead and sent that out I understand there's now a conflict on October 22nd. So just wanted to have a conversation about where we go with the dates from here. We can certainly notify the public and post everywhere that the public hearing will not occur on the 22nd. and post a new date to let the board know of upcoming dates. We have Friday the 18th, which is a Friday's strategic session set aside. The mayor and I had talked about a few topics for that, but that's a date that's on the calendar. The board meetings for the month of November fall on November 12th and then November 26th. And I would just note that November 26th is the Tuesday in Thanksgiving week. So just two days before Thanksgiving. And so those are just some things to consider here. If we end up first reading this and having the public hearing on November 12th, um again november 26th would be the next date where you start to get into really the the holiday season here

excuse me david for a second november 12th is also the school district long-range planning community forum if my calendar's right so it may we may want to think twice about asking citizens to try to attend both because they're going to want to hit both so just sorry to interrupt i just wanted to kind of that's fine uh

and then when you get into december uh december 10th is the um The regular meeting that we have scheduled there the fourth Tuesday of December is just December 24 so Christmas Eve. So our dates start to get pretty tricky as we get into the holiday season, so I just wanted to talk through and make sure that board was comfortable with the meeting dates moving forward for this. But as I said, we do have the recommendations from the plan commission and we're ready to move forward as directed by the board. So I'll open it up for any kind of discussion on what dates we should set. The one thing I will tell you is that for a public hearing, we need at least 15 days advertised notice.

Yeah,

because we got to hit the paper. Yeah, we got to get it out to the paper in time to get it actually posted on a Friday.

Just out of curiosity, what's the conflict on the 22nd?

The conflict is that I had work travel come up that absolutely precludes me from being at the meeting, either in person or in Zoom. And I would very much like to be present the first time that the Board of Aldermen discusses this in public session as I have attended all but one of the meetings in the last year and a half. And so I actually have a proposal that... Because I don't know, I've talked to a few members of the board and I think that we have a lot of... conflicting ideas and, um, feedback from residents that we are trying to wrestle with and complicated processes to understand. And I suspect some of us are at different places on this. Um, I, I definitely sense if we don't have any like consensus on the path forward, um, from my personal like perspective at this point. And so, um, and one of the, um, frustrations that I've had throughout the process has been like the lack of my ability as an elected official to like communicate with the public in some type of forum that they come to. I mean, I email people, I like... put posts on Facebook, I talk to people wherever, but like, you know, the actual, like now that there's like a real plan that's been considered and people can look at, the like ability to dialogue and actually like get in discussion with residents and our neighbors has been really valuable. And from my perspective, that's really only happened in the last week or two. To any like substantive degree. And so the, my suggestion would be that we consider taking time in the discussion session on the 18th. to talk about it as a board, to hear kind of like where each of us, for each of us to be able to talk about like what we've heard and what we're thinking, to be able to ask questions of the staff openly. I much prefer that we not do that in like one-off private conversations and that our residents have a chance to hear how we're wrestling with this And that then on the 18th, we'd be prepared to like give direction to the staff potentially on like what the next step would be. That's just an approach that I thought of today that I would like to recommend that we consider.

Well, one just basic question for everybody. If we, I was going to ask, you know, who would be available to meet? We need to make sure we have, you'd be missing on the 22nd, but would somebody else be missing on the 12th or the 26th of November? And that, so I need to know, we would need to know that before we decide to move dates. So just, I know it's news about the forum at the school district. So that's a definite big consideration.

I would imagine that Bridget will need to be there on the steering committee. Maybe. I mean,

I think that this takes priority. I'm also just being

respectful to citizens. You may want to go to both. They won't. Yes.

I think that is a thing to

consider. I mean, i won't i don't feel like i i think it's more just i would imagine it's kind of like. I mean, I think the consultant, I think it will mimic a lot of what was at the center of Clayton where there's like small round table and people are having discussions. So yeah. So I mean,

we could conceivably do it.

I mean, I I don't know how we disrupt our process for that. I mean, I think it's very important, but there will be other ways for people to provide feedback. I mean,I haven't seen other dates. I mean, i know there's going to be forums at each of the schools, so I mean, Ithink there will be more. I guess I admittedly, I don't know what all the different dates are, but yeah.

if all of this is open i'm less concerned i was when i saw it on there i was thinking it was more like some big presentation everybody may want to get feedback on and i'm like well if that's the case we've got the school district asking for feedback the same that we're asking for feedback and i figured that was gonna be issue but if it's just one of those come provide comments then i'm less concerned about

i think the idea is they'll um i think they're trying to um at our next meeting i think they're a Claris project, but something bigger that the district needs. And I think they want to be able to provide like then tell the public, Hey, we're thinking about this big idea. This is one of these things that we think the district needs, and this is a big project. So.

No, you mean the CUPs. The CUPs. Yes.

We would talk to Concordia, but we would likely push all of it to the same agenda.

Yeah, I mean, I think we could ask Concordia, the applicant, what they prefer.

I would imagine you'd want to be present for that as well. Yeah.

It's much less controversial.

And I don't have any meeting date conflicts, but I'm going to be traveling on the 18th. And so I'll be available by Zoom. I can participate. I just won't be here.

Okay. I mean, other thoughts? I don't know.

I mean, I absolutely support Alderman. I mean, I'm happy to move it. You know, I don't think people – I, of course, understand our need to post everything, but I think people – I think it will be easy to communicate to people when the next meeting will be. And if it's not the 22nd, then it will be the 12th, right? So, I mean, I am supportive of that. I think it's important to have – the older persons here who are directly impacted. I mean, the residents, they've been doing the most communication with residents, so I think it's very important.

Right. Anything? No?

I mean,

the only thing I would say is one, I want to make sure everybody's here. So I completely agree with moving. So my only thought with the work session to piggyback on what Gary said is it's also tends to be when people are still working three to five. So if people want to come They may not be able to be here. I also asked a question from a process standpoint, despite that pretty much all of us have had some version, if not large exposure to resident comments. Should we be having the discussion session after we've received formal feedback from citizens to us as a board, as opposed to having a discussion session before we actually get feedback from residents? Yeah. We all know they're there. Either we're at the planning commission or we watch the videos, but I'm just thinking through, again, sort of Gary's point of like, It's a hot issue. Let's make sure we do it in a flow that makes sense. And I'm not sure if a discussion session before we get feedback is necessarily the best flow, but we can get back.

Feedback. I'd be happy to forward some to you and you can watch the meet the plan. Oh, no,

I watched the planning commission. I'm just saying like, if I was a resident and I, We were all and again, from a scheduling standpoint, we got to do we got to do to move it along, I think. But if I'm a resident and I think that we as electeds are going to have the first public discussion about what this may be on a Friday afternoon before we've actually formally heard feedback from them. I could see how some may not like that. It may not be enough for us to change it because I also don't want to be like sitting around Christmas time and the holidays trying to do it. And I don't think anybody wants to wait till the spring. So, you know, what I'm saying may not be accomplishable just because of the schedule, but I just at least wanted to throw it out there.

Right. And I think that the whole idea of a working session with any board is a chance for the board to come together and talk and it's public and it's not a time for people to be making comments and things like that. So yes, what you're saying is valid. People will, whatever we do, there may be feelings that it wasn't fair that we're doing something, but everything is public, everything is noticed. If we need that time to talk with each other, it's the only time we have. And that's kind of what you were saying too, Jeff. We have to do it, we have to do it. So that's a question. If we want time to talk with the board meeting where we're actually having it presented, we should have it on Friday. If we don't feel we need that additional time and we don't need to. So that's really the question.

Right. I mean, I'm only torn because I'm very eager to move this forward rapidly because I feel like the longer we keep it hanging out there, the more we kind of extend the angst of not only ourselves but the community. And that is something that I don't want to do I fully support your presence at all of the sessions because you have been very involved in this from day one, and you've been to almost all the meetings, as you said. So I think your voice is important, and I will ask this knowing that you've already thought of it. You can't do a Zoom. You can't come in by Zoom on the 22nd. Okay. I know you thought of that, but I feel compelled to ask. Okay. So... You know I, I also do feel that having this discussion like this public and a Friday session is is a little bit dramatic because it's a short notice. Kind of. And B, we told people we would do it on the 22nd. Now we're not. Now we've moved it to the 18th. We're not

moving the public hearing to the 18th? No, but

they don't know. So I just think the optics are something we have to be careful about communicating. I just think we'll have to go overboard on that somehow. So I don't think we really have a choice. If we want you there, we have to do it. And it will benefit us to discuss this as a group, I think.

So can I ask... Maybe you just said this and I missed it, or maybe it's a variation on what you just said. But if part of the issue is having a discussion at a work session, could we have the discussion on the 22nd? We're not going to vote on it. Could we have the discussion that still excludes you? And that's I recognize that. But what I'm what I'm trying to address in that variation is that it's an announced meeting. It's at a normal time. Um, we haven't talked about this as a group. Um, it would seem to the extent that it excludes Becky, then it's a bad thing. And I get that. Um, so, but to the extent that having at a meeting time, that's otherwise normal than it fits.

I think we're

down to the lesser of two evils here.

Yeah, no, I mean, I understand. Like, I don't want you to feel, like, hamstrung by my work that I do. Like, but, you know. And so, you know, I just... I guess... I think the 22nd, like... My sense is that we have a lot of varied opinions, that we are not very close to having something that is ready to be approved by a majority of this board. And I would like us to sooner than later discuss that in public session, like in a public setting that while people may not be able to come, it will be recorded, it will be shared. It won't be a public hearing. And because I would prefer that you not do it on the 22nd for the first time without me. And I certainly wouldn't want to wait till the November 12th to talk about it at all. So that's my request. I don't like, I don't think that the delay that I'm proposing is Is that I my sense is that residents will not be like upset to have this delayed, they will be upset to have it pushed forward the sense. Is that we are pushing something forward for the benefit of an institution that they don't trust and, and that is the risk that we are trying. To the narrative that we are trying to counter that I would like us to try to counter. And this is a proposal I have about how to do

it. I think, yeah. So I think I'd like to suggest, yes, let's do it. Let's have a discussion session at the Friday session. I'd like to request that Mr. O'Keefe is there. Okay, and I think there's some questions we all have that I think you're aware of, but if not, we can go over that. But I think that session will not be... it'll only be half as productive as it could be if we don't have some of those questions addressed in terms of the limitations of the CUP, et cetera. And we can go over that. I know David's talked about it. So if we have that in agreement, I think that's really critical. And yeah. Ana, you're available to be there on the 18th, are you? OK.

No, no, no, go ahead. Oh, David wants to say something. If

I could really... quickly on that. My only concern would be if we have the work session on the 18th and there's significant changes that are suggested or recommended or need to be incorporated that's on a Friday afternoon we'll have to scramble to compile all that into an amended ordinance or two that we then would have to get out to the public in order for them to to read it and show up at the 22nd at that public hearing and be informed I'm just a little afraid that's a tight window where there's really only one business day between the work session and that... My thought would be

But my problem, though, would be if we have that discussion on that Friday, we all kind of come to, or a majority, I don't know, a majority of us thinks that a setback should be this or that. Then we make some potential changes and then somebody comes to us on Monday and says, hey, or Tuesday, and says, well, I want my setback. And we're all sitting there thinking, well, yeah, it's actually going to be bigger over there. So, I mean, I don't think it's necessarily fruitful to have a meeting where people are come up because after now sitting through, and I know everybody else was there too, or many people were, I don't think it's necessarily fruitful to just have people come and just provide comments. Cause those are the same comments that will happen at the next meeting and the meeting after that. I just don't think, I think it's, I think I would much rather go to a meeting where there's this, at least a reading or a suggestion of a reading versus just telling people, just come and tell us what you think. And if we don't even have a concrete suggestion in front of them or something written down, that makes me uncomfortable.

There's more impact of a statement, too, when it's right before a board is taking something up. So coming is much more powerful from their viewpoint to come later. I don't know who would come. I don't think it's necessary. We all have gone to and or listened to the meetings. It takes a lot of time. And

it's hard on our residents to come time and time again, because they feel like they have to, you know, so that's, I mean, it's, you know, I think we should make it meaning have them come when it's important and meaningful, you know, rather than just this, you know,

I think for me the gap is that it isn't that we need to hear more from our residents, because I feel like I know it left and right with the thing that I think there's a gap on is I'm not sure our residents know exactly what we think. And so, and how we're embracing this and just as an aside when we're going to get into it perhaps with our roundtable but when Becky and I had a coffee on Saturday. There were some revelations about just what we were thinking and what we were communicating in terms of our resident response and so And what I mean by that is just sort of the purpose of this and who initiated it. It wasn't even some pretty basic things where there were some misperceptions. And so this is so atypical compared to most things we deal with. So I don't know that I have a solution, but I think Becky's trying to get to the point of having the public discussion of what we're thinking to see if there is a path forward on this or what the path forward looks like. I know there's a process for it. Whether there's agreement on how to move forward on it, I think is the struggle that we have, or at least I have.

So I think this is, I respect your thoughts and I understand what you're trying to accomplish, which is more feedback from the community, giving them more opportunities. But on the other hand, I really feel like we have to have some boundaries about that. They've given a lot of feedback over time, and they had two shots at the plan commission with extended feedback. They're gonna have two shots with us. And I'd rather that we had, so I don't know, I don't feel like we're gonna, and I could be wrong, but I don't think we're gonna learn something really, really new if we have an open discussion on the 22nd, I really don't. So I think where we are is we've got varying support of the overlay right now because we have varying understandings of what our limitations are without it or with it and we need to get those cleared up. To me that's the primary thing that we need to do on that Friday session And then we can talk about some of the nuances. And to me, they're nuances of there are people that have come over since we did the last iteration and have realistic suggestions about things they're worried about that we can address that are specific. And once we have all that, we should know what we would like to do. And so I think out of that Friday session, we can get our fog cleared. and we can identify specifics that we want to change. And at the end of that, I think we should be able to feel like we'll be able to come to some kind of a consensus one way or another on November 12th. And that will give us plenty of time to notice the public about November 12th and to put out a revised version and even to have more one-on-ones or whatever it is we feel like we need to do in the meantime. And again, I appreciate what you're thinking But I really think this is the best, least painful course to take and less confusing for everyone, for the public and us. Does anybody really have a big issue with that process?

I mean, other than what I've said before, which is if we – and again, it may have been your choice of words and you didn't mean it, but if we have a Friday session and we come to some sort of conclusion of where we're at, and that's all public how does that go over with residents you think we've already made a decision without having them talk

my only concern vote obviously and i think what i said and maybe there's there's a very fine line difference i'm sure but we will feel at the end of that meeting that we can come to a consensus at our next meeting that that's kind of what i was saying if we if we have enough of an understanding of what's involved to make our decisions independently for the next meeting.

Well, I think we'll have to be very careful though with that language about coming to a consensus because I just, you know, I don't, I mean, I think it'll, right. I just don't want, I mean, because I agree with Jeff, we don't want the public to have the perception that we've made up our mind before our meeting. So I think it's also just asking our attorney questions, you know, asking just any sort of questions, burning questions, thinking about, oh, I'm thinking about the setback here, I'm thinking about this. Like, you know what I mean? Or just perhaps asking questions of Ana because, you know, WashU won't tell us anything, but in your discussions with WashU, why was the time set at 9.30? You know, that sort of thing. You know, rather than trying to come to a consensus. Coming to a common understanding of the fact. Yeah, like,

yeah. And our options.

Still going forward, you'll be

able to get to your- We are perhaps unlikely to have consensus on this issue. And it's okay if we don't. What I would like to ensure is that we feel like we have a common understanding of the facts and our options, and we're proceeding with that in mind. I like it.

I like that phrase.

I like it too. Okay. So do we know what we're doing then?

So October 18th, there will be a work session. We'll do it at 3 o'clock, our regular time, and then we'll advertise the public hearing, the first one for November 12th. Are there any strong feelings about the 26th? I'm here. Are people okay with

that?

I just want to make sure nobody's leaving town for that or has some sort of conflict.

No, I mean, I'm

here.

I seem like the one who's always throwing a wrench in it. But if that's the week of Thanksgiving, is that really the best week for us to have a vote on something?

We have to keep moving.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking through, right, the optics of it when we're basically approving something and either everybody's out for Thanksgiving or voting and then running out the door to go to Thanksgiving.

There's no good option at this point. We

would have already, I mean, in truth, all we've done is extended to a second meeting. We've already had the first meeting, which was really in these things where the real discussion is. Okay. It's basically the second reading at that point. Got it.

Then we'll, we'll plan on the 26 because we get that question a lot. It's just the extended timeline. When can I expect some sort of decision on this? And so it's, it's, there's potential. It could be on the 26th.

Yeah, I

agree.

Okay, great.

All right. Okay, great thanks everyone. And we can do a round table. We can start over here. Yep.

Does anybody want to hear more about the plan

question?

What happened after 10 o'clock?

Yes. So, no, I don't have much to talk about. However, I did enjoy homecoming very much. It was a lot of fun to be on the fire truck again and I was struck at homecoming I think it's just great to see the Community out the football if the weather was beautiful, it was actually a little bit warm at the football game but it's just. Such a fun event and it just you know it's just wonderful to see our Community come out our school Community come out, but then all the people. who don't necessarily have kids in the school district or they've grown up or grown out of the school district and they're lining the streets so it's just um it's a great event and the weather was beautiful so um it was a very fun albeit exhausting weekend so

uh i went to the planning committee i don't really have anything at homecoming although the other fun part was A lot of the guys who are on the team that won state in whatever year that was came back for their, yeah, in football. Oh, yeah. Or back for this year. Becky?

Yeah, so the High Point Neighborhood Association has an annual block party, and that was this past weekend. And they are always very kind in inviting us to attend, and so that was a great event, good opportunity to meet people and chat. We have like two hot topics in our ward, I would say. One related to traffic calming, which Rick has been closer to, so I'll let him talk about it. And then we did host award coffee on Saturday and had, you know, massive attendance. We usually have, you know, single digits to a dozen people and I think there were probably 30 or more. And it really was a great opportunity to talk to folks. I've shared with some of you that I think it was very constructive. There's a couple people who are just adversarial and don't seem to be interested in getting into discussion and dialogue, but overwhelmingly folks did. And even what struck me that Rick alluded to was that Even people who I've seen at most of the meetings and who have been attentive and have not been, who I would not describe as adversarial, we're still coming to the understanding that One, WashU did not ask for the overlays. That was and probably is still a misconception that persists. And understanding the motivation for something does drive how people think about it, right? So once people knew that, they're like, oh, well, I might want to think about this differently. And the other was that all of the things that we're describing in the overlay are allowed in the current existing zoning. And I want to acknowledge, David, that you and Ana have said these things. I'm not trying to suggest that you haven't. But I think that ability to be in discussion really helped us. communicate it and have it be heard. And I think Ana's presentation at the plan commission last night was really phenomenal in terms of kind of emphasizing those points and talking about that. So really appreciate your work on that, Ana. And that's all. Great, thanks. Thank you all.

I would just confirm Becky's comments regarding the high point demand picnic, as well as the coffee and Bridget and everyone's comments regarding the plan commission. I also along with several of the rest of you attended the M1 bank conference. grand opening and they have their community room which is a potential asset for us to consider in the future if they make that available to us or certainly for us to inquire it's awfully close um the jazz fest was a great event as well i hope that we do consider rotating the stage 90 degrees in order to help the capacity crowds we're getting such a big group there and then finally um i feel like this is a daily event coming to city hall so uh there was a meeting on friday for um our Daman safety program. So we've been studying that a number of ways and we have circulated to residents, a couple of plans Matt and his team had put together to address potential speed tables on DeMunn. DeMunn, just for your knowledge, has 1,200 to 1,400 cars a day on average that go up and down. So as a residential street, it's one of our most busy residential streets that we actually control. So we are looking and seeking resident feedback for an idea of either using speed tables in the north and southbound lanes or a raised crosswalk at, I believe it's Alamo and DeMunn. And so what I took pleasure in is that one of the participants in that meeting, one of the residents actually took the trouble of taking Matt's diagrams, putting them on a whiteboard and bringing them for presentation at the High Point de Mon Picnic. So they're taking this very seriously. It's something that they really see as an important asset for their community. And so, and we'll also be looking at, I got a lesson on the fact that if we want a new stop sign, we need to pass an ordinance. And so we've asked David to work on that. So that'll be coming before you. So we are taking the livable community plan seriously about pedestrian safety, traffic safety in our ward. So that's it. Definitely.

I don't really have anything. The Park and Rec Commission was canceled for this month, and everybody else has kind of already said everything else I've been to, so I will actually be quiet for once this meeting.

Okay. I think everything I was going to mention has been mentioned, but again, not here, but kudos to our team. The Jazz Fest was amazing. So we just, they hit it out of the park again, so I'm just excited about that. We did, David and I did meet with St. Louis County or to hear about and to give input on their comprehensive planning process. They invited us, and we gave them an earful about various things. I don't know if it helped them that much. They certainly, yeah, they're like, whoa! And so, but I thought it was great that we had the opportunity to at least begin that dialogue, and honestly, I didn't bring my notes from that meeting, do you remember any key points that we discussed.

You know a lot of it had to do with, of course, their area here within the city of clayton what they plan to do with their own facilities and campus. And then a lot of discussion about connectivity so as we looked at the livable Community plan if you went to those meetings. And the things everybody brought up we're trying to get across handling trying to get across big bend. and making sure that as the county goes through this comprehensive planning effort, that they're keeping those networks in mind. Because Clayton isn't the only city that they bisect with these major arterials that have no real safe or clear way across. So all of us that are working on bike pedestrian plans, we're all running into the same issues. So it's something they can help us address if they take care of it through their planning process and long term with probably some capital dollars. But it's just a huge impediment for us and we i think we made that known

so uh yeah we we made it known that you know they should incorporate some revenue generation plans they should pass the use tax um you know they're leaving money on the table various things like that that we've already talked about in fact that reminds me too that i did go to another meeting about that with the county lisa flancy organized it at my request and you know we talked about it and i think it's it could possibly move forward so there's there's some traction now so and also i think you'll remember that um they brought to us the idea of a sign at central and uh Bonham or Central and is it Bonham or the jail?

Opportunity Central.

Opportunity Central. I did check that out with Dr. Page's office and he is not important to him, I mean necessarily. So I did tell that group the group that I met with on the use tax, those guys were all from Dr. Page's office too. So I just said, you know what? We really see some issues with doing that sign. So we would prefer not to do it. Sign is dead. Okay. So, okay. That's all I have too. So I think we can take a motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Second. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay. Enjoy the rest of your Tuesday.