July 23, 2024 — Meeting Transcript

Okay, welcome everyone to our July 23rd meeting. We have a discussion session to start with and I think Gary is our star. So you're going to talk to us about window coverings.

Yeah, I'll give the overview here and then- Oh,

you are. Oh, sorry. No, no, that's

okay. If questions come up, then we'll bring Gary into it. I'm sure questions will, especially since Gary was here for the previous program that the city had for window covering.

Yes, okay, fine. I did not know.

I'm just going to start by talking about what we have in place right now. So included in your packet was a description of the current ordinance that we have. And so the windows and ground level vacant spaces have to be covered with white butcher paper or a window covering provided by the city. The city has not actually provided window coverings in a number of years now. So back in 2012, when that ordinance was amended to have the city provided window coverings, we did provide those. If you think of Foresight Curve, Those were up for a very long time. It was sort of an outdoor cafe scene that was in the window. The problem we had with the program was it was on paper that would fade over time. It was usually taped up. The tape would fail and they would kind of fall down. We saw that foresight curve all the time. And by the time that building was demoed, those had faded quite significantly over time. So we do have that requirement currently. So code enforcement will go out and take a look to make sure that The paper's up, but a lot of times, you know, they'll put it back up. They'll be in compliance. It'll fall down again because of whatever tape or adhesive they're using tends to not stick for a long time. So we wanted to see what other options are out there because we've heard a lot from residents lately and people in the downtown area generally specifically about these vacant storefronts, and we do have quite a few right now. And so we want to try to, from a beautification standpoint, really make that look better. So we looked at some examples from other communities and there were two included in the packet, one from Miami Beach, Florida. And in Miami Beach, they offer property owners three choices. They can use plain materials similar to what we have, designs that are provided by the city, and there were some examples in the packet, or designs approved by a design review board that the city has. The city will actually provide the designs. If you pick one of those graphic designs, they'll provide that for you and have a contractor come out and actually install it. And so the materials that they're using are going to be commercial grade, meaning they're vinyl. So they're the clean type that tend not to fall. They stick much better and they're color fast. So over time, they tend not to fade if you use the vinyl product. Evanston, Illinois is somewhat similar. They have options that they give property owners there. So they can use those again the commercial grade long lasting material which is that vinyl covering. They also allow displays from local artists to be in windows, or you could actually display merchandise if you had a nearby retailer. So think like the Williamsburg shops, if there was a vacancy next to a retail store, the landlord in that particular area could allow that retailer to display their wares in the window next to them. So a variety of options in Evanston, Illinois. So we wanted to give you just an idea of what's out there that Especially those products that are a little more durable than what we've had in the past, because the paper is an issue for us and has been for some time from a code enforcement standpoint. So just wanted to bring this up and see if the board was interested in pursuing any of these options. And, you know, we can certainly research it further and come back with more if you'd like, but we figured this would be a good starting point. So I'll kind of open it up there.

Okay, great. Thank you. So I'll just go in order and Alderman McAndrew.

David, from what I saw of the other cities and do, I mean, was the city paying for it in Miami and Evanston?

So Miami pays for it if you pick one of their designs. So I'm just going to hold one up so you can see it, that design on the front. If you wanted to use that in their window, Miami would actually pay for the material and have it installed by a contractor. Evanston does not provide anything. They give you three options. You choose one of the options and the city actually has to approve whatever you're putting up in the window, but they don't provide it for you.

Okay. And also did it was Evanston wasn't paying for it or they were paying? They are not. They're not paying for it. Right. Okay. Um, I mean, I think it's, you know, we consistently hear from residents that in the downtown area that, you know, like you said, I mean, for all the reasons you just said, the butcher paper falls down and, um, you know, We do have a lot of bacon storefronts, obviously, especially at some of our prominent corners. So, I mean, material that stays up better. I'm curious how we go about figuring out what a design would be. I mean, I'd be curious about trying to find a way to, I don't know, you could have kids from the school district do some sort of design. I mean, that would be kind of cool. I don't know if anybody's ever done that, but something, yeah. So I'd be kind of curious how we would come about finding artists to do or, yeah. But I guess ultimately I'm very, I'm certainly very interested in trying to find a better solution.

so one of the questions that we'll have for everybody too is as we go around you know if we end up coming up with some sort of design for these are are we interested in the city paying for these uh window coverings or having these available or is this something where we just provide guidance for the property owners

yeah i mean i don't i don't think that we should have to pay for it i mean i think that there's or i don't think we should pay for it you know we have um Maybe there are some exceptions, but I think a lot of the property owners who have left these vacant storefronts have been sitting on land for years and years. So perhaps this would encourage them to find space or to lease out their space so it's not vacant anymore. So I would certainly not want to be.

Well, if I can just build on that for a sec, because I had this thought of, I wondered, you know, if we had an inventory of our vacancies, I feel like a lot of them are in big Corporate towers where the property owner has the resources to pay for something like this. If we had a situation where there's a multitude of small business owners that own their building, that really would be a hardship for them. I'd be interested in knowing that. um before we decide on how how the financing works so i don't know if we already have a sense of that or well this

is vacant ground floor so this could be any building in the city so this could be a one-story building that's on clayton road it could be you know hanley and wideown it could be any of those areas and those buildings would be subject to this particular ordinance

true But I didn't know what the sort of the preponderance of small businesses that would be burdened with this would be. Or if, you know, I suppose you could have a tiered system of some sort. So.

I do have a list of vacant retail space. It doesn't go into all commercial space, but I don't remember the mixture off the top of my head, but that's something I could send out tomorrow morning to everyone. And just following that, thread it changes all the time

yeah i know i know it was because it was a low threshold like this one in miami it was 15 days which just doesn't seem like a very long time to be vacant before the ordinance kicked into effect would you have it be as short a time span as that

yeah i mean i think on and i'd want to kick it around with with kevin but um i think you want to have some time frame in there because if it's vacant 15 days it's likely to be vacant six months. You know, I think we are aware through the occupancy permit if something is going to change hands immediately. But just for and it build out finishes, usually there's some kind of build out which would require a screening anyway. But just to follow up on this thread, I think that some kind of hybrid between these two, certainly having lived through the process where we manufactured the paper and gave it out was great. laborious, just to be gentle about the process. So I certainly would advocate for you to legislate the design or the processes of the design rather than staff getting involved with being an integral part of that process.

yeah i would i would hate i realize i'm jumping in a lot i i would hate to have us set up a design review committee and get into all that cumbersome stuff and i was just gonna i'll throw out there and then i'll be quiet um we had a design before that everybody really liked even though it didn't it faded and whatever and i don't know why i don't know where that came from exactly but I don't know why we couldn't just use that only put it on the vinyl or some other material. So just a thought.

Okay. I, I agree with, I question why we would pay for it to me. It seems almost it's property maintenance. If somebody is doing a business here in town, there's certain things they should be doing with landscaping and et cetera. So certainly we could, we should have some standards on what we want, but yeah, I'm not quite sure we should be paying for it. And then the only other thought I have, and I know that I'll be told that, well, that's the only thing feasible, and I mentioned to David as well, as we look at our comprehensive planning and everything we do with sustainability value, I don't know if there's alternatives to vinyl, but I don't know the market at all. There may be nothing else that really lasts, and that's the way it goes. but just remembering to keep sustainability in the conversation as we look at what materials should be used for this. But I do see it as a property maintenance thing that should be on the property owner.

When you mentioned that Friday, as we were walking out of that meeting, I have spent time trying to research that. And I unfortunately think this is one of the areas where sustainability has not caught up. Tires, that kind of process, because it's still be relying on paper and even the best quality paper. We looked at this back in 2012. is going to fade relatively quickly. I know David referenced the, the curve, the Forsyth curve. Actually they had gone through three or four sets of paper before we just ran out and couldn't do it anymore. So if we're looking for something that actually cleans and is color fast over time, unfortunately vinyl at this time is all that's out there as an option.

I don't like the answer, but I'm really impressed that you did it so

quickly. That's what I like about the Evanston approach is also that you could have that backdrop of just black cloth or something and the art and or the other merchandise which kind of gets you away from the the vinyl necessarily, but you know, that's an engagement process with the property owners to encourage them to do that because sometimes it may be one of those property management things that you take the path of least resistance. And if there's an approved design or parameters for designs and they just contract someone out to do it, they may do that too. Yeah.

And maybe what we can do is whatever we end up whatever standards we end up having for this, we could put something in there that's sustainability, is the value of the city or something, just as you look at the products to be used. And I also like the idea about having local, whether it's our schools or WashU or universities, it may be a pipe dream, but if they were to do some of the art and want a place to display, what a wonderful partnership that would be. But that might be hard to actually pull off as well.

Well, we also have art fair to someone.

Yeah. And if I could, Gary, as long as you're up there too, maybe just when you mentioned the comprehensive plan, and maybe this is a totally separate thing, but thinking about our vacant storefronts, I know the... Again, as part of the comprehensive plan, some suggestions were made of, you know, encouraging these business owners to lease out the space at a very reduced cost for, you know, I don't know, for an artist to paint during the day. Then people can walk by and see that, you know, having the space not be vacant. you know, have it be this like temporary. And maybe again, that's a totally separate thing from this, but it could be when you're discussing, Hey, we're going to start doing this. However, alternatively, you could also lease out your space at a fraction of a cost or no cost at all to a local artisan who needs a space to paint. I don't. Yeah. I

think that's a separate discussion that David has teed up for a future just retail and how we, what programs we can come up or what encouragement we can come up with. to encourage that type of occupancy also. I think this vacant storefront window coverings is a distinct conversation because it's going to happen regardless of whether we have those other programs or not, there's going to be a period of time of transition, I think at a minimum.

Yeah. I mean, it would be great to have that black covering and in front of it, have a table with something, an artist from the art fair, who's going to be there in the next few months. Hey, look at what's coming to Clayton or, you know, look at what our Clayton high school students are creating in their art classes, but why don't students, you know, it would just be so much better to look at, especially at some of those prominent corners. It doesn't have to be done in every vacant storefront, but maybe, you know, again, the one at Forsyth, you know, so it Yeah,

well, there's a history of property owners working with the art fair just for occupancy during their office. I did the former law office there on Forsyth next to Chipotle's. I think they'll be there again this year. That's certainly something that could be addressed in those windows, I think easily.

When we have the conversation, tying the two together makes total sense. And if we had a stable of things, whether it's the art fair, the schools, whatever, when people come to look at to do with their storefronts cost them nothing and they're getting maybe a little bit of lease but to tie the two together at some point would be great

um well i certainly agree that that i think we need to do something i think status quo is just not acceptable um i happen to drive by and get out of the car once again to look at our two, I think, most prominent vacant sites right now, which would probably be Sterling Bank and World News. And I mean, what distresses me there, they're not just closed. They are abandoned. They are derelict looking. I mean, if you walk by there, you know, they're awful looking. And it's, you know, there's... both of them have multiple entries. So, you know, but you have this, you know, awful looking brown paper, some of it falling off as we've talked about, but it's even in some ways worse than that, which may begin as a different issue, which is the general, I think, abandonment of these properties, at least for now by their owners, because I walk by there in both buildings, there's piles of You know, look like like wood chips and other dirt in front of a couple of these. It was with a few, you know, bottle caps thrown in. I mean, it looks awful. And I think Sterling Bank or one of the buildings that adjoins Sterling Bank has this huge building. It's like a padlocked bolt on it. It looks like something much bigger than what I used on my locker in high school. I mean, but it looks like, you know, it looks like hell, you know, and then they've got a sign on Sterling Bank announcing the PUD public hearing tomorrow. from April of 2023 is still stuck on the door, and also a sign that says, you know, wear a mask at all times. So that's obviously got some COVID history. There's some green area in the front, which is overgrown. I don't know if that's ours or theirs. I'd like to think it's somebody's other than ours, theirs, you know, which has huge weeds coming out of it. So, to me, it's this whole issue about, you know, for whatever the variety of circumstances are, you know, buildings are, you know emptied out in anticipation of development. The tenants all go away, and then after the deal craters, we're much worse off than we were before. So just this responsibility of owners, they still own it. We know that World Bank's owned by somebody who's been there a long time. I think the bank or others, it's a lot of the same owners. I just somehow we've got to impress on them. that this is not acceptable. It's not like, because you don't have a project right now, you just abandon your property. So I think it's a broader issue, but any kind of window covering, as long as it's not brown paper, I'd like to find something that actually seems creative and promotes. I'm a little concerned about having fake people sitting at You know, at a restaurant when you know it's a restaurant that's gone dark, you know, it seems sort of hypocritical. But something creative looking. But we need to do something because downtown, these are our, you know, these are buildings on our main block. We won't get into the incentive discussion again. This is in the heart of downtown, in our biggest blocks, biggest corners, and we have derelict looking buildings and we don't seem to be able to do anything about it. That just, we can't keep doing that. Thanks.

Well, some of the things you just mentioned could be enforced with, you know, the trash, the weeds and all that we should go after that, you know, we can do that, you know immediately because I'm calling. So, yeah, so we could do that. So we can follow up on that.

We'll go out there and check them all again. And we do that periodically, and we'll send the violation. They'll go and clean it up and then walk away from it for another six months until we call them again. So we'll try to stay on top of it and keep working with those property owners.

Hey, Rick.

Great. Gary, you said you have an idea of the universe we're talking about, about vacant star fronts retail? Yeah. Can you give us an idea of what that is and maybe break it out for the Central Business District and then everywhere else?

Yes, I do have a list and I can break that out and send that out tomorrow.

Okay. Any general thoughts on it that come to mind? Is it a small number, relatively speaking, or a big number?

Well, keep in mind, it is just retail and restaurants, so it doesn't matter. cover some of the other uses and i have a hard time of thinking what that might be right now but it it's not a significant number i mean if there's a handful

okay so because there's

multiple ownership so like bulky brown although that's under construction and and jim coman's project so

Okay. So my thoughts, I certainly shared Gary's concerns, although they're outside the realm of the window coverings just regarding the condition of the property. So I think that's important no matter what. I guess my point of view would be a little bit different than Bridget and Susan's regarding paying for it. It seems to me that especially in the central business district, that I think it's vital that we have this look as positive as it can. That's where we show ourselves off to the entire community. And it strikes me that if ever there was a expense that ought to come from our central business district improvement fund, that would be one of them. So it seems like it's a very valid expense. And I like the idea of having the optionality of having The owner can use some kind of a low-cost way to cover their windows paid for by themselves if that's what they want to do. But from an optionality standpoint, we pay for this other design and we have an inventory of those assuming that... There aren't like 14 different window sizes, which I'm sure there's probably a lot of different ones. But if we could find a way to make that work with as much versatility as possible. And at the end of the day, I guess my preference would be is to make sure whatever we consider is relatively easy to administer, explain and enforce. So if we make it more complicated with all these moving parts, it just becomes harder to enforce and administer. Even if it's a good idea, I'm just concerned that it gets more challenging. And to me, I just want to make sure we get it done. So keeping it simple would be my preference.

Well, just real quickly, I can answer the question. There's no two windows the same size from previous experience. And the Miami Beach approach is that there's an application process where you send in the size of your windows measured already. And then that production is done with their vendor. They've pre-selected who goes in and installs it. So it's not a one size fits all. It's a printed material that's done according to the size of the window.

Hey, Jeff, do you have some comments or questions here?

I'm chuckling because Rick and I have been agreeing a lot lately and I tend to agree with Rick on this one as well. But a couple of questions. Do we have a sense of what the cost would be? Again, like you said, every window is going to be different. So I know it's a guesstimate at best. But are we talking $100 a window? Are we talking $1,000 a window? Is there any scope you can tell us as to what it would cost to produce one of these?

I'd have to do more research, Jeff, to answer that question exactly. But my guess is with the labor of installation, it's approaching thousands of dollars and not hundreds of dollars.

Okay. And one of the questions I had was about reuse, but it sounds like if every window is that different based on your previous experience, the concept of reusing them kind of goes out the window. Is that fair?

That's an accurate statement.

Okay. So a couple of other thoughts. I like the art fair idea, the student Clayton idea. Like I think I'm going to agree with everybody that the idea of something better than brown paper, both in material and both in look. Whether we get some art fair folks to let us use a picture of their art for like the next year after the art fair, then we just kind of just have, it's sort of a submission process or you have the, again, Clayton High School and Wydown submitting options and that's what we kind of choose. And I think that would be more beneficial. One of the other things that to Susan's point You could also provide them the option to have basically pipe and drape over the windows instead, which I think people have kind of alluded to. So if they don't want to use vinyl or if we want to give them an option that is better for the environment, the idea is just putting, again, black drapes up or whatever color we want to choose, blue drapes, whatever. That could be another option that's slightly more sustainable, but also still gives a better look that we know is going to not fall down two days after it's put up. and it's gonna look better than brown paper um i would be curious to know kind of what a guesstimate of a cost would be because i think i'm inclined to consider paying for it because then we get what we want we get it the way we want it and um we know it's going to get done right but that's predicated on what cost we're talking about like again gary if you're right that it's it's a thousands of dollars per window, that may make me think slightly differently than if we're talking less than that. But I would be curious at least to know what the number would be so we could have a better sense of whether it's feasible or not. I know some of the rest of you, I think more philosophically don't agree with paying for it, which I can understand. I'm okay with it, subject to kind of cost. But I agree with brown paper is not where we need to go and we need to come up with another option, however we get there.

Okay.

We'll research a cost.

Yeah, yeah. First of all, I just want to say, I can't believe that you and Rick actually want to pay for something, but it's good. It's a progress. Just kidding. Don't ask again. This may be the only time all

year.

Okay. I had a few ideas while we were talking and I don't know if you could, when you're costing stuff out. So for example, if, if, and, and maybe talking to art fair folks, you know, art fair has something called emerging artists every year, and maybe those artists would be happy to have their, um, works, uh, be part of the window coverings that we are going to mandate or provide are used on, on the vinyl. Um, Did you say the vinyl, you take the image and you make it fit whatever the window is because it's a digital

thing? It's a high res image that the printer will put on any size. I

mean,

I imagine there's some limitation to size, but I can't imagine any of the windows we're talking about would reach that.

So that is an idea. Another idea is, you know, we have all these great events. And we have a lot of great photos of our great events. And so we could make up a series of window coverings that showcase each event. So in other words, there's one for jazz fest is one for wine and music. There's one for whatever else we've got parties, not parties in the park, but stuff that happens in our parks. You know, the Halloween things or whatever. And, and we could, you know, just put on there. So it wouldn't be dated. We could just put, you know, it's in September or it's in October or whatever. That would be pretty cool, I think, because that would promote stuff that we're doing and maybe get people, catch people's eye. Because some of these photographs are really, really amazing. The other thing, if we want to get... I agree with the idea of not being too cumbersome. I really worry about getting... actual kids' art in there or having artists use the window and paint live. I mean, it sounds cool, but I think the idea of how to coordinate that would be really, really tough for us as a city. Yeah. Perhaps if community foundation or someone else wanted to try to do something like that maybe they coordinate it but I think the control that we will lose would be something to consider. But the other thing we could think about is also during the holidays, the winter holidays we used to hang our snowflakes, but they are. You know, too tired. And we don't really have a lot that is festive during that time of year. And so maybe we could arrange for at least one piece of vinyl or a special display. We can encourage that during holidays. I don't know. So I'm just dumping all these ideas on you. You can think about the costs and ramifications of some of those. You know, Trip Straub has his windows hand-painted. which is very cool. And that maybe that could be some sort of an option. I mean, especially during the holidays when I can remember going downtown as a kid and all the windows famous bar and everybody, it was all painted and it was really cool. So I'm, I'm good at throwing out ideas, not so good at figuring them out. So that's you. Okay. All right. And that, it brings us right up to seven unless there's any other comments, questions. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Gary and David, for that. I think it'll be a really good thing. We can do it. All right. So we can start our 7 p.m. meeting. I see we've had some new arrivals. Welcome to our July 23rd Board of Aldermen meeting. And will the city clerk call the roll?

Alderwoman McAndrew. Here. Alderwoman Buse. Here. Alderman Patel.

Here.

Aldermen Rick Hummell.

Aldermen Hummel.

Here.

Aldernman Yorg.

Here.

Mayor Harris. Here. City Attorney David Gipson. I'm sorry. City Manager David Gipson. City Attorney O'Keefe. Thank you.

Mayor Harris. Here. City Attorney Gibson. I'm sorry. City Manager Gibson. City Attorney O'Keefe. Thank you.

Good knowing you, Kevin.

Okay.

Thank you for tonight.

Very good.

All right, now's the time in our agenda that we ask for public requests and petitions something's not on our agenda you'd like to comment on it or ask a question now's the time do we have anybody online, other than Jeff. We have one person. All right, so at any rate, I don't see anybody raising their hand, so we will move on from that. We have a public hearing for the Forsyth Boulevard plat consolidation, and I will open the public hearing and request proof of publication.

Yes, Mayor, this is a public hearing and subsequent ordinance approving a minor subdivision plat for the consolidation of two lots to create one lot. Both lots have a zoning designation of HDC, High Density Commercial District. On June 7th, 2024, the City of Clayton received an application in plat from Stock and Associates on behalf of M1 Bank requesting consolidation. The site is developed with two commercial buildings, both intended for occupancy by M1 Bank. The new lot would total 24,860 feet. The Plan Commission considered and recommended approval of the lot consolidation at their meeting on July 1, 2024. The newly created lot meets all zoning requirements for the HDC High Density Commercial District, and staff recommends that the Board of Aldermen conduct a public hearing and approve the ordinance.

Okay, very good. Thank you.

Is there any discussion? Start over here. No, I mean, I wasn't at the plan commission where this was discussed, but I think a lot of it has to relate to just flow of traffic within the building. And that was kind of why they need to merge these two areas.

Just to clarify, I should have added this to the report. So this is the former wine merchant building and then the M1 bank building that's recently been renovated across the street. That's the consolidation.

So it doesn't include the small one on Bemiston?

Right. The two lots on this plot would be the building on the corner and the wine merchant building. And the wine merchant building at the last plan commission meeting received approval for exterior alterations with their renovation there.

Okay. Very good. All right. Susan, anything? Gary?

Nothing. Thank you.

I'm not opposed to it. I just don't understand. Why would they want the wine merchant building combined with the bank building?

They didn't give us an exact reason, but a lot of times it's to put those structures under common ownership. So it's one tax bill. You can own them both under one LLC. You could have the same financing structure. Ana may have a better idea.

And the applicant is here as well. The applicant might be online. Isn't that Tyler, more or less? He's the architect for the renovations, but not the plot. But essentially what they're doing is removing a property line between two buildings, which will facilitate some other renovations that they're doing, but also put it under common ownership. The remaining building here is under a different entity, essentially, of the bank.

Okay. And so that's not part of this consolidation. Thank you.

Okay. Jeff?

Is the plan for, and this is curiosity, I guess, but is the plan to still keep the old wine merchant building as is, or is the plan to tear it down and build something else there, or do we know?

So with the last planned commission meeting, and those plans are still up on our website under the pending applications section. You can see the actual drawings for it, but they're exterior renovations to the existing building. The inside would be converted to office space. And then there's a balcony that would go on the back with a staircase that would then lead down to the rest of the property. So they're really just unifying that as a campus. We have Tyler at the mic. Yeah, yeah. Why

don't you enlighten us? Yeah.

Thank

you.

Just

real quick, is that mic on?

Do

you know?

I was just going to say, I can't hear anything.

Yes, now it is. All right, great. Thank you. Sorry. The other two need to be consolidated both for ownership reasons, but then also architectural reasons. The way we're renovating the building, it's going to cross the line a little bit here and there, and there's some mixing. So got it.

Okay, good. Yeah, thank you. You can't get the wine merchant back? If you could get the wine merchant back, that would be good.

Yeah, no, they're not coming back. I

know

there are a couple of bottles left over inside.

You'll have to have those as commemorative. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Tyler. All right. Any other comments or questions up here? All right. I will close the public hearing.

I'll introduce bill number 7030, approving a lot consolidation plat for 7801 and 7817 Forsyth Boulevard to be read for the first time by title only. Second.

Any discussion? Okay, Mr. City Attorney.

Bill number 7030, first reading, an ordinance providing for the approval of a plat to consolidate certain property known as 7801 and 7874 Forsyth Boulevards in the city of Clayton, Missouri.

All those

in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? I'll move that the board gives unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of bill number 7030 on the day of its introduction. Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Let the minutes reflect. The board is given unanimous consent.

I'll introduce bill number 7030, approving a lock consolidation plan for 7801 and 7817 Forsyth Boulevard to be read for the second time by title only. Any discussion? Mr.

City Attorney.

Bill number 7030, second reading and consideration for adoption. An ordinance providing for the approval of a plat to consolidate certain property known as 7801 and 7817 Forsyth Boulevard in the city of Clayton, Missouri.

Alderman McAndrew? Aye. Alderman Buse? Aye. Alderman Gary Feder?

Alderman McAndrew? Aye. Alderman Buse? Aye. Alderman Fader?

Aye.

Aldermen Rick Hummell?

Aldermen Hummel?

Aye.

Aldeman Jeffery Yorg?

Aldeman Yord?

Aye.

Mayor Harris? Aye. Thank you.

Okay. You guys... have what you need i think i don't know if there's more on here for you but you're welcome to say um okay uh i'll open the public hearing and request proof of publication for the uh hanley road lots

This is a public hearing and subsequent ordinance to approve a minor subdivision plat for the consolidation of two lots to create one lot. Both lots have a zoning designation of HDC, High Density Commercial District. On June 7th, 2024, the City of Clayton received an application and plat from Stock and Associates on behalf of Birch Properties requesting consolidation. The site is developed with a commercial building and a surface parking lot. The new lot would total 11,998.9 square feet. The plan commission considered and recommended approval of the consolidation at their meeting on July 1st, 2024. The newly created lot meets all zoning requirements for the HDC high density commercial district and staff recommends that the board of aldermen conduct a public hearing and approve the ordinance. And on this particular property, this is the approved site for good day farm on Hanley road there. And this would consolidate the parking lot and the building site. There are actually two separate lots right now.

Right. Very good. Thank you. I'll open the discussion. Any questions, concerns?

No, I guess, David, I was just curious. So this doesn't change what they were going to do, right? There wasn't two lots. I mean, this is.

There's currently two set. The parking lot is a separate lot from the building itself. They would like to consolidate those. So like the previous application, they would be under common ownership going forward.

Got it. Okay. It was unclear online if it was with the separate address. So.

It appears who would like to comment on this item.

Yeah, my name is Bob Leggett. I'm a tenant in 120 or 112 South Hanley. And I just want to know what's going on. As I understand it, our building, which is a two-story building previously known as the Midvale Building, that's 112 South Hanley. Is it being consolidated with the parking lot to the south or does it include the lot where the old canning spa was? We're very unclear about that.

It's the former tanning building is being consolidated with the surface parking lot. So that would just be one property now instead of two separate properties.

Okay, is there any plan that's been put before you that

we

should be aware of?

So there's a marijuana dispensary called Good Day Farm that has received a conditional use approval for that.

Okay. So you're going to put a marijuana dispensary in where the tanning spot was? Correct. Is that

correct? Adjacent to the car wash. That's correct.

Okay. So there's no plan to tear down any buildings to wit our building. That's what we're basically concerned with.

No, this does not impact. You're

just going to enhance it by putting a marijuana dispensary there. Is that correct?

Yeah, that's correct.

And has there been any study as to the traffic effect? Let me explain. Our building is at the corner of Carondelet and Hanley. And there's a parking lot on the north side of our building. Then there's a parkinglot to the south side of our building between 112 and 118 South Hanley. And so the parking lot to the south of our building, we assume is going to be to accommodate the drug dispensary. Is that correct? That is correct. Okay. Is there any plan for controlling the amount of traffic or parking that is going to be needed for this great demand for

marijuana? They do meet the parking requirements that the city has, and the trip generation was enough to trigger an actual traffic study where engineers would come in and model it and study the traffic. But they do have enough parking to accommodate their use.

Okay, how do I access these plans or get more information about it? You can

leave your information with staff in the room here. We can send those over to you.

Okay, what information do you need?

If you could just give an email address, we'll send you the PDF. How do I leave it with

the staff?

Behind you here in the room. She'll raise her hand. There you

are. On

a crane, our director of planning will send that over to you.

Okay, thank you all very much. Thank you. Should be a happier corner now.

Yeah, it should be. Okay, let's see. So we were here. Susan, any questions or comments? Anything? No, no, Jeff. All right, very good. I will close the public hearing. Alderman McAndrew.

I'll introduce bill number 7031, approving a lot consolidation plan for 112 and 118 South Hanley Road to be read for the first time by title only. Second. Any other discussion?

Okay, Mr. City Attorney.

Bill number 7031, first reading and ordinance providing for the approval of a plat to consolidate certain property known as 112 South Hanley Road and 118 South Handley Road in the city of Clayton, Missouri. All those in favor?

All right. Aye.

Any opposed? I'll move that the board give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of bill number 7031 on the day of its introduction. Second.

All right, all those in favor.

Aye.

Okay, very good.

Let the ministry like the board's given unanimous consent. I'll introduce bill number 7031 approving a lock consolidation plan for 112 and 118 South Hanley Road to be read for the second time by title only.

Any discussion?

City Attorney. Bill number 7031, second reading in consideration for adoption. An ordinance providing for the approval of a plan to consolidate certain property known as 112 South Hanley Road and 118 South Hanley Road in the city of Clayton, Missouri. And I could note there's a typo in the title which will clear up before the execution draft is prepared. We just thought it might need an extra R in there somewhere, so we put one in. Pardon me? No. Oh, it's part of the address.

Oh, I thought it was a typo too when I was reading. Okay. All right. Well,

I'm glad you brought that up. Okay.

I want to call the roll. Alderman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Aldermen Gary Feder.

I want to call the roll. Alderman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Aldermen Fader.

Aye.

Aldernan Rick Hummell.

Aldernan Hummel.

Aye.

Alderman Jeffery Yorg.

Alderman York.

Aye.

Mayor Harris.

Aye. Thank you. Okay, moving on. Platt 139 North Beamiston Avenue. I will open the public hearing and request proof of publication.

Yes, this is a public hearing and subsequent ordinance to approve a minor subdivision, Platt, for the subdivision of one parcel located at 139 North Beamston Avenue. On April 17th, 2024, the City of Clayton received an application, Platt, and supporting documents from Core 10 Architecture on behalf of Douglas Beamiston, LLC, owner of 139 North Beamxton Avenue. for a minor subdivision plot to subdivide an existing 15,990 square foot property into two individual lots for the purposes of redevelopment. Each new lot measures 50 feet wide and 7,996 square feet in size. The subject property is located on the west side of North Bemiston Avenue between Maryland Avenue and Pershing Avenue. Adjacent properties are developed with single family, two family and multifamily buildings. The lot has a zoning designation of R3, one and two family dwelling district. No change in zoning is proposed. The applicant is proposing to demolish the existing single family home and construct a duplex on each new lot. The proposed lots meet all zoning requirements for the R3 district. The plan commission considered this request at its meeting on July 1st, 2024, and voted unanimously to recommend approval of the minor subdivision plat to the Board of Aldermen with the condition that the signature block is revised to reference the correct year. Staff recommends that the Board of Alderman conduct a public hearing and approve the ordinance.

Thank you. I think there may be a few people here that would like to comment or ask some questions about this. So I'm going to take audience or our guests input first. And so if you'd like to comment on this particular item, would you please go ahead and come up to the microphone? Make sure it's on green and state your name and address for us. And we'll open it up for public discussion. Is anyone here to do that? No? Okay. If you change your mind, let us know. Bridget, we'll start with you and go around.

I don't really have any other comments other than this is a somewhat ministerial act for the board. They meet all zoning requirements and the lot can be subdivided and a duplex can be put on either side. I think it's important to mention that the architectural elements and the site plan elements are still up for discussion or debate at ARB. And it's unclear as to whether or not when those particular agenda items, what ARB meeting it will be at. Thank you.

I think Bridget covered it. This is a ministerial act by the board and that's the only comment I have.

Okay, very good. Alderman Gary Feder.

Okay, very good. Alderman Fader.

Well, I guess just to reiterate what's been said, it's my understanding this application has sort of three parts to it in total, which is a site plan review, the architecture and the subdivision. It's only the subdivision that is really ministerial. The other two, which are still pending, the site plan and the architecture, are matters of discretion. And so I'm sure discretion will continue to be exercised. But this particular matter is really not discretionary. It really is just ministerial. It doesn't reflect one way or the other on the site plan or the architecture. And so it's certainly distinguishable from the other two, which aren't resolved. So I don't think there would be any basis to it. object to this part of the request, since I think it meets all the

requirements.

Just a curiosity question from the plan that I'm looking at, it appears at least the lot that is to the south appears to have the same front footage that the proposed subdivision would have on each one of these lots. I'm just curious, is this consistent with the neighborhood or does, is this the start of a new trend to make smaller fronts?

This is consistent. They are 50-foot wide lots. This was a double lot.

Okay, great. I don't have any other questions.

Okay. I really don't have anything to add. I feel like I should just comment that I think everyone appreciates the historical value of the home that is there. I've been in it many times myself, and it's beautiful. But our current zoning... is one or two family and our current lots width in our code is something that this particular project meets. And so we really don't have any discretion in terms of what we do, where we have the discretion as everybody has said is with the architectural review board and the actual design of what goes in there. And that's a great place for people who are interested in this property too attend and give comment too so uh excuse

me mayor i just want to check with jeff

you know what jeff i'm sorry i like to skip over the video

yeah no no it's it's it's fine um we've all kind of said it but um for the sake of extra clarity if nothing else whether david or kevin Can you give like a two-minute explanation to me, if nobody else, what ministerial acts really means and what we can and can't do with this state? This part of the project.

I'll try. This is Kevin. The Missouri courts have ruled that cities get to set the standards by which property subdivision can be measured. For instance, has to meet the requirements of the zoning minimum size in the zoning district adequate to have setbacks appropriate to the zoning district, etc. But once having set those standards. if a plan is filed which fits those standards, there is no discretion to deny its approval and that the duty is to assess whether it meets the standards. And if it does, then the reviewing body has a duty arising from the law as to which there is not an exercise of discretion to approve a conforming application.

Gotcha. So in this case, because it meets the current zoning and the current rules that the city has laid out, we as an automatic board have no real – once we know it complies with the zoning we've already laid out, there's not much we can do as it relates to this step in the process.

The duty is to assess whether it meets the rules that you all have established and if it does, to proceed accordingly.

Okay. Thank you, Kevin. That was all I had. Thank you, Mayor.

Sorry again, Jeff. Okay. If there's no further discussion and no one else would like to comment, question. Okay. All right. I will close the public hearing.

I'll introduce Bill No. 7032, approving a locked consolidation plat for 139 North Beamston Avenue to be read for the first time by title only. Second?

Okay.

Any discussion? All

right. Mr. City Attorney.

Bill No. 70321st reading, an ordinance providing for the approval of a plat to subdivide certain property known as 139 North Beamstone Avenue N, perhaps, located in the city of Clayton, Missouri.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed?

Okay. I'll move that the board give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of Bill No. 7032 on the day of its introduction. Second.

All those in favor.

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay, let the minutes reflect. The board has given unanimous consent. I'll introduce Bill No. 7032, approving a lock consolidation plat for 139 North Beamiston Avenue to be read for the second time by title only. Second. Any discussion? Okay. Mr. City

Attorney. Bill No. 703-2, second reading and consideration for adoption. An ordinance providing for the approval of a plat to subdivide certain property known as 139 North Beamston Avenue, located in the city of Clayton, Missouri.

Alderwoman McAndrew. Aye. Alderwoman Buse. Aye. Alderman Gary Feder.

Alderwoman McAndrew. Aye. Alderwoman Buse. Aye. Alderman Fader.

Aye.

Aldermen Rick Hummell.

Aldermen Hummel.

Aye.

Aldeman Jeffery Yorg.

Aldeman York.

Aye.

Mayor

Harris. Aye. Thank you. Okay. Okay, moving on. We have the consent agenda here. Mr. City Manager, any?

Three items, minutes, a liquor license, and an appointment. Okay.

Okay. Very good. May we have a motion? I will move to approve the consent

agenda. Second. Any discussion? Any questions? Okay. All those in favor? Oh, call the roll. Sorry.

Alderman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Aldermen Gary Feder.

Alderman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Aldermen Fader.

Aye.

Aldernan Rick Hummell.

Aldernan Hummel.

Aye.

Aldren Jeffery Yorg.

Aldren York.

Aye.

Mayor

Harris. Aye. Thank you. Okay, last but not least, we have our second quarter budget amendment.

Yes, the city reviews and adjusts budgeted revenues and expenditures on a quarterly basis to respond to changes as fiscal year progresses and update the Board of Aldermen regarding budgetary issues. We did give the second quarter financial report at the last Board of Aldermen meeting. There are really three changes of note in this budget amendment. The first one is a revenue decrease of $831,500. This is from the building permit line. These are the large projects that we know aren't going to take place by the end of the year. And so we're going to go ahead and take that revenue out of the budget now. So that's a very large number. that's going to impact our revenues pretty significantly. We have an expenditure increase of $36,552 in the fire department, mainly due to fleet repairs. So as you know, we ordered a ladder truck a year and a half ago now, and I think it still doesn't come in for another year, year and a half. It was at least a three-year lead time. The apparatus that we currently have is 12 years old, I believe. And so the repairs are frequent. And when a fire apparatus has a repair, it is expensive. So unfortunately, we've had a lot of downtime with the older apparatus, both the ladder and the engine. So that is starting to hit the budget. So you can see the increase there. and on the equipment replacement fund, a decrease of $16,000. And that's due to a project there in Shell Park. So I will say that with the revenue decrease of 831,000, we are putting together the fiscal year 25 budget as a part of that. We do estimates for fiscal year 24. we still anticipate that we're going to end the year with a surplus. So when you see this negative 831, we still think we're going to have a pretty decent surplus. As we talked about with the second quarter financial report, we had a number of revenue lines that actually came in higher than we had projected, and we've had staff vacancies and other things that have kept expenditures lower than what we had anticipated at the beginning of the year. So we do still anticipate a pretty decent surplus at year end in spite of the decrease that you see here related to building permits. So with that, we recommend that the Board of Aldermen approve the attached ordinance adopting an amendment to the fiscal year 24 budget with a net effect on the city's fund balances of a decrease of $851,986.

Okay, sobering news. Yeah.

Okay, I'll just go around Bridget. David just so I just because it's always unclear to me like how much money we get from permits you know on on a project basis so are we looking at basically Sterling Bank, the like midas hotel and then the pershing and merrimack projects is it kind of those three

it's sterling and uh world news that are really driving this

oh

just just world news alone we were estimating that that was close to five hundred thousand dollars for the one permit

okay so it was mainly those

primarily those two those two prop and shaw okay

oh okay oh that

one wasn't there as well okay Gotcha. Okay.

So World Trade, World News and Sterling Bank. Okay. Because the Merrimack and Pershing project was a little bit smaller, I guess. Yeah.

And they're actively pulling permits. They have a...

Oh, really? Oh, that's fantastic. So for the project at Merrimack and... Pershing. Okay. Okay, great. Okay,

thanks. So has there been some kind of change on the World Trade Center project that you included it here that we... might not be aware of

so when they initially began that process they projected a very optimistic construction timeline so they were projecting to have the building demoed by the end of this fiscal year and have inserted construction by the end of our fiscal year which is not happening as far as we can tell at this point okay

gotcha

demolition the demolition loan will take months before they would actually have the building permit it's more

of a timing yeah that project um i don't have a concrete status on whether it's been abandoned the way that we do for some of our other ones but so we haven't decided how to exactly but or project that one in the next fiscal year budget which you'll see soon but um for merrimack and persian that one's in we Hopefully we'll have at least partial building permits in by this fiscal year. But the other projects mentioned, we'll see.

Yeah. Okay. Okay, great. Thank you. All right. Susan, anything? Mr. Gary Feder?

Yeah. Okay. Okay, great. Thank you. All right. Susan, anything? Mr. Fader?

I don't have any questions. Thank you. Mr. Yorg?

No, I mean, I think, I mean, the bottom line that David, you kind of already addressed was, I mean, nobody likes to see an $800,000 drop, but it looks like we're still going to finish the year okay. So it's not going to exacerbate a financial situation. We have to start thinking about where we have to pull money from. So that was my biggest question. But looking at the numbers and then David, what you said, I'm comfortable that that it's not what we want, but it's not going put us in a whole heap of trouble yet either. So at least at this point. So otherwise, I'm good.

Okay. All right. Very good. Alderwoman McAndrew.

I'll introduce bill number 7033, approving the fiscal year 2024 second quarter budget amendment to be read for the first time by title only. Second. Any discussion?

Mr. City Attorney.

Bill number 7033, first reading, an ordinance amending the fiscal year 2024 budget and appropriating funds pursuant thereto.

All those in

favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Okay. I'll move that the board gives unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of bill number 7033 on the day of its introduction. Seconded. All

those in favor? Aye.

Any opposed? Okay, let the minutes reflect. The board has given unanimous consent. I'll introduce bill number 7033, approving the fiscal year 2024 second quarter budget amendment to be read for the second time by title only. Second.

All right. I'll let the... Oh, I've lost my place. Mr. City Attorney, sorry.

Bill number 7033, second reading in consideration for adoption. An ordinance amending the fiscal year 2024 budget and appropriating funds pursuant thereto.

Alderman McAndrew? Aye. Alderman Buse? Aye. Aldeman Gary Feder?

Alderman McAndrew? Aye. Alderman Buse? Aye. Aldeman Fader?

Aye.

Aldermen Rick Hummell? Aye. Aldemann Jeffery Yorg?

Aldermen Hummel? Aye. Aldemann York?

Aye.

Mayor Harris? Aye.

Thank you.

Okay. All right, all. We have time for a roundtable. So... If you have some things to share, now is a good time. And Alderman McAndrew, you can start off.

Um, I don't really have anything to report. I was other than I was lucky enough to be in Washington DC last week because my daughter was looking at some schools out east. Excuse me. And I was just reminded of how lucky we are that we get to be representatives in this country of our city so it was just, it was very moving to be there so I just feel grateful to have been elected to represent a community. So, and I just feel like Washington DC is a great reminder of that.

Thank you. That was really nice. Oh, I feel good. We had a committee meeting and I have to say that Grossman is leading it and with Matt's energy and power and things getting done, it's a really inspiring place to be. And also the great use of Washington University interns to do a lot of the research and champion projects has really given us as a city, a lot more depth in making some change and being researched and informed about it. Two of the big things we talked about were the Green Dining Alliance, which has come up before. We looked at our neighboring cities that do it, as well as places like Cortex and some other type of entities and what that could do for Clayton and how it is funded. And I think that a proposal is going to become, a recommendation is going to be coming from the committee to the board on how that might be done and giving us also information how Webster and Maplewood and other places around us do this very successfully. The other topic of our last meeting, one of the other topics was looking at the comprehensive planning and how the committees are fitting into that and how sustainability is a through line and hopefully use of the committees as the city continues to do the work, so. That was the only one that I had. And then the appointments to the Parks and Rec, I think, are great appointments. So I'm looking forward to seeing where that committee goes as

well. Two things from the Community Equity Commission. Some members of our commission and the sort of counterpart from Kirkwood are having an informal get-together this Thursday at Starbucks to talk about what everybody's doing. So... That should be interesting. At our last meeting, Stu Berkowitz, who has been on one of the subcommittees dealing with the operation of our police department and also our municipal courts, he mentioned Senate Bill 754, which just came out of Jefferson City, which is the sort of omnibus crime bill that was passed and particularly mentioned a provision in it that hasn't gotten a lot of attention, and that is how municipal courts deal with bench warrants, which has been an issue for our city for a As I understand the law now is obviously state law, but to definitely discourage the issuance of bench warrants by municipal courts, particularly with relate relating to auto related violations. I think Clayton was not by any means the only municipality in St. Louis County that issued a lot of bench warrants. That seemed to be just the pattern, but this law essentially says that, and this would primarily mean if you get a citation, you have a particular court date, and you just don't show up, you haven't asked for an extension, you just don't showing up. Historically, a number of municipalities, the judges would have the discretion to issue a bench warrant you wouldn't get a second notice saying, hey, you didn't show up. You need to come three weeks later. It would basically be you screwed up. There's a warrant essentially for your arrest because you didn't show and you could get picked up by police and other jurisdictions. It was a pretty onerous process. But in any event now, apparently the law essentially says you can't do that to the municipal judges. Essentially, you have to If someone doesn't show up under those circumstances, the municipal court can issue a default judgment against that person, which would be similar to what would be like in civil courts. Whatever their obligation is, the fine, the penalty they didn't pay, that would be a default judgment, which would hang with you for a long time until you didn't resolve it, but much less onerous a process. Right. It is interesting, something that the commission, at least in our municipal courts, was sort of trying to deal with. Actually, not because of us particularly, but I think just generally statewide, there was a concern that this was a process that ought to change. So anyway, that seems to be what's come out of that bill. It'll be interesting to see. uh where that goes and i think we're having a meeting with our own municipal judge in the next month or two so that might be something worth bringing up but an interesting development at the state that's all i got

okay that's good thank you

Not really much. We've got a CRSWC Finance Committee meeting on Thursday, and so we'll see where that goes. And then I certainly can defer to David and Ana to expand, but still a lot of resident concern about the WashU Concordia project. You may recall at one time we explained that this would be a relatively fast process and it probably would have been done already. And so none of the residents are really concerned about that, but they are curious as to where it stands. And so our updates on the website have been good and they continue to reach out. And so just if you want to expand on timing expectations, that'd be great.

So we're still, if we can, going to try to shoot for a September plan commission meeting. We continue to work on our draft ordinances. And as soon as the overlays are in a form where we think we will take it to the plan commission, we'll make sure that those are posted at engageclayton.com with plenty of time for residents to take a look at those and get familiar with them before we get into that formal process, but potentially September. And we'll continue to post updates on engageclayton dot com in case that target moves.

And you're going to do an overview sheet before and after the overlay?

That's correct. There will be a table that shows the current regulations and then the proposed regulations through the overlays.

Good. Um, I really don't have Jeff. Oh, Jeff. See, thank you, Jeff. You're looking, I'm looking right at you and it's still, I, I,

I don't, I don't have much, you know, I, the, uh, the parks and rec committee hasn't commission hasn't met since the last meeting. So I have nothing to report there other than to echo what Susan said. I think we've got, um, with a new chairperson and a new member, I think both will, will contribute well. And I think help kind of continue to move that organization that, Committee in the next decade, if you will, in terms of looking at our parks and rec services, especially piggybacking off of the reviews we've just done. Otherwise, as you all know, I've been up here, so I have not been down there and talking to a bunch of people to report anything new. But if anything comes up, I definitely will send it over.

Thank you. Mayor, I'm sorry, can I just say one thing? I was going to send everybody an email, but if you haven't been to the center recently, I just want to tell everybody that Tony and her staff, I think the marketing department, so maybe Gabby and Kristen, the lobby looks wonderful because they put up all these Olympics posters. like decoration. So it just looks really festive. They've got an area where it has St. Louis people from St. Louis. So I just want to commend them. You walk in and you just see flags everywhere and banners, and it just is a great, it's a, it's a it looks really nice. And I was just thought it was fantastic that the center looks festive for the Olympics. So

really good. Good comment. Sort of on that vein. I think it's maybe it's just parks. I'm not sure. But if you're on Instagram or Facebook, you know that each employee is being featured and they're holding up a little chalkboard saying my name is know joe schmo and i've been with the city xyz years and just whatever a couple of facts and there's their smiling face and i think that's a really great and again i don't know who's responsible for that probably our communications group or or maybe it's the parks communications group but um it's one in the same i suppose and uh i i just have i feel like that i've always wanted to encourage uh promoting our staff or individual uh very talented staff members um so i like that whole thing and i hope we do it across the board for all departments that would be great uh i have nothing i've been gone so uh with that uh we can have a motion to adjourn motion to return second all in favor aye the opposed okay very good thank you all