October 2, 2023 — Meeting Transcript

Steve Lichtenfeld. Here. Carolyn Gatiss.

Here.

Bridget McAndrew.

Here.

Bob Denlow.

Bob Denlo.

Here.

Helen DiFate.

Ellen DeFate.

Here.

Kami Waldman.

Dave David Gipson.

Dave Gibson.

I'll make a motion to approve the minutes.

The subject property is located on the east side of Lancaster between University Drive and Kingsbury Boulevard. The property is zoned R2 and is located in the Clayton Gardens Urban Design District. The project scope consists of the demolition of an existing structure and the construction of a new single family home. The full analysis of site plan review criteria can be found in the staff report, and I'll summarize some of the key components. HVAC and trash are proposed to be enclosed with cedar fencing. Impervious coverage is proposed to be 41.8%. The proposed water runoff is 0.65 cubic feet per second, which represents a 0.08 cubic feet per second increase. Downspouts at the front and rear of the property will connect to flow wells and stormwater storage beds at the front of the property. A sump pump is proposed to connect to pop-up emitter located towards the southwest corner of the property. Catch basins are proposed to be located within the new driveway. The catch basins and flow well are proposed to be connected to an existing MSV stormwater infrastructure. Existing canopy coverage is 4,329 square feet with all existing canopy coverage proposed to be removed. The plan proposes 4,500 feet of replacement coverage and this falls 775 square feet short of the required replacement coverage. The plan also exceeds the native species requirements with a 84.6% native proposed. The height setback and impervious coverage as proposed are in conformance with the requirements of the R2 Single Family Dwelling District and the Clayton Gardens Urban Design District. Staff recommends approval with the following conditions. To ensure future maintenance and protection of the flow well and stormwater storage bed, the applicant shall record a deed restriction identifying the locations and details of the system with the St. Louis County Recorder of Deeds and provide proof of the recording with the building permit submission. And two, the applicant shall either revise proposed landscape plan to meet canopy coverage requirements or shall make a contribution to the forestry fund compensatory to the requirements of Section 405.4110.C.2 prior to the removal of any on-site trees and prior to the issuance of a building permit.

I am Joe Schlag with Jim Boleski Architects, where I'm representing Rob and Sherry Ann Myers for their new home at 216 Lancaster Drive.

report? Sure. I had mentioned with Ryan that the landscape architect and the owners are aware of the canopy coverage being under and their discussions. They're okay with the payment for the difference. They felt that the in order to get enough sunlight and all that to the vegetation that's proposed, they needed to not add more canopy coverage than is proposed on these plans, if that makes sense.

Anything else? I'm here to answer questions. First,

planting? I guess for me, I guess I don't understand why I'm not seeing on the plan why you couldn't add a few more trees. So I kind of feel like it's a little bit sparse, but I mean, that's a personal choice, I guess. I think you'll find as you go out through the life of the house that you'll appreciate a little bit more shade here and there, especially in our summer months. But I'm guessing that's not my purview here. But my advice would be to add more trees and not pay the... I just feel like the fee doesn't cover what the trees actually would be doing for the environment. I think it's very low, but I don't know if you have a comment to that.

I understand what you're saying, but I know that the Myers and Ken Keitel of TerraSpec sat down and their proposal is what we see here to be under on the coverage and to pay the difference. Okay. So I don't have anything else on that.

Okay. That's just my comment as a certified arborist and landscape architect.

Right.

Yeah. So let's see. I don't know if he has a C on his, but on sheet one of the L1. No, it'll be on the civil plan. So it's just cheating one hits.

Just make sure you're in the microphone.

It's on the civil drawing sheet one, the flow wells on the front yard near the front concrete walk.

Correct, in front of the

He's proposing a 30-inch deep gravel bed with the two flow wells in it.

I would echo the disappointment about the trees. I just think given our climate As it continues to warm, I'm not sure why people wouldn't want to provide more shade coverage. So again, it's their choice, but I still think it's just disappointing.

I'll certainly bring that up to them. We're the same way.

Okay. But other than that, I didn't have any comments on this. Bob?

I don't have any problem with the site plan, but out of curiosity only, how is the calculation for the city forestry fund done?

That is something that the landscape architect did. I know there's a spreadsheet.

It's in the code. So it's automatically calculated. Our tree protection and preservation section of our code has a dollar amount per year. Deficiency of canopy coverage. So it's

automatically calculated. So in a situation like this, are we talking thousands of dollars?

I think it was. Do you have it, Ryan? We talked about

this. It's around like $400, $490 something. What is it? Well, that's different than the $914. Yeah. correct so I sent an email earlier today with an update the applicant reached out and they provided an updated uh tree chart the one that was your landscape plane is accurate but the tree chart that we had um didn't have that calculation in there correctly they added additional coverage

correct

missed

no you're good okay that's it Ellen

No

questions.

No comment except for it is disappointing about the tree coverage. I'll

circle back with them for sure.

I'll make a motion to approve with the two staff recommendations.

The applicant is proposing to replace an existing single-story ranch house with a new two-story single-family home. Nearby homes often comprise brick of varying red or brown shades and range one to two stories. Stone is a common accent material. Entryways or windows often feature arches with stone capping. The new home is proposed to comprise red brick with an arch front entry and stone capping above doors and windows. The garage will be rear access with exposed aggregate driveway. Cedar fencing will enclose the rear yard, trash, and HVAC. Landscaping is proposed throughout the front and rear yard. The two adjacent homes were both constructed in 2005. The property to the north is comparable in height, while the property to the south is shorter and sits at a lower elevation. The Clayton Gardens Urban Design District recommends several techniques to reduce the impact of taller structures. The property uses a combination of setbacks, step-downs, and plantings to mitigate the difference in height. The proposal complies with the requirements of the R2 District, Clayton Gardens Urban Design District, and architectural review guidelines. Staff are of the opinion that the proposed design and materials are compatible with the existing property and surrounding area. Staff recommend approval is submitted.

I think that was a good summary. Usually. What's that? It usually is a good

Correct. You're asking why not on the third? Sure. If you can lead me there, let me ask the question. And I think hierarchically, this piece to the left is stepping down and it's already proud of the area on the structure there. So the main focal point when you look at this house is... center window we have this arched window over the kitchen sink and we have this nice two-story feature that steps down to the side and steps down to the center so i want your eye to go there as opposed to being pulled over to the left which is the driveway and a one-story feature

I think it looks really nice too. I was a little worried that it's going to seem so much taller than the house to the south. But, you know, it sounds like with the buffering that's going to happen. And I know that the way that street slopes too, you know, just because naturally it's not going to seem much higher to the house on the north because of that slope. So I understand that it's also like a topographical thing so but I do think the house looks really nice and um I haven't heard from adjacent property. I mean, I haven't heard of anybody else. I

know the Myers or have said they've been, they're friendly with their neighbors and they've been showing it off to everybody that they can. So we appreciate that as

well. They

live there now. Yes. And the ranchers they've been there. I don't remember the exact years, but they've been there for a long time. Yeah. Uh, live and work in the area. So.

Okay. Oh, great. Okay. Great. Um, thank you. Yes. Thank you.

Bob, um, I really like the architecture of it. I love the lines of the roof. I love your entranceway. I love the curves of the doorway and the window to the left, as you face it. I like the change in dimensions in the facade. A really nice job you guys do. Thank you. Helen?

I really like it, but One concern is that the brick detailing in the front that Steve mentioned, the diagonals, that's an option cost.

That's what he

notes. For the contractor to provide a cost on sheet five

the last that i know is that that is in so but i do see i do see what you say on the note

okay plan

is that they're in both both of those cables

Because I think they're very important. I mean, I love the way you've detailed the brick, the stone. It's really, it's very rich, but it's very simple. And to delete those, that detail on the front. Changes it all. Yeah. And two, it'll provide some shadow and kind of reduce the height visually. So I like it providing that stays. My other question was, why are you using siding in the kind of the vestibule on the side?

As opposed to brick?

Well,

yeah. They're just concerned with the cost since that's the dog door. That's why.

No, I was thinking a stucco panel would be more in keeping with the rest of the house and you're not going to see it's going to be in too much shadow to really see that it's fake and not real stuck up would you consider that

i will certainly consider that yes i like it i like the idea

No, those are my only two comments. I think it looks great. I like it. The package you put together is good. So thank you.

Thank

think it's a beautiful house. I really like the red brick. I think it'll help stand out from its neighbors. I like the asymmetrical look of it. You know, as Steve mentioned, just not a square box. Really great job with the detail at the front door and the curvature of the entrance and the front door. I love all of that. So it looks really nice. Thank you very much.

Yeah, I have a comment about the diagonal detailing at the top. I can see on the left side how it resolves itself. It ends on the top of that window there. The one to the right of this image seems to just be floating in space and not aligned with the bottom of that special window or the window below. If you're going to do that kind of detail, it would be nice if it actually resolved down to the white portion of the window. at the bottom you know below so it isn't floating there do you know what i'm saying with that

yeah i think the intention is that it would resolve at the sill of the special window up there and then they're proportionally sort of mimicking each other um if that

okay no it does make sense it just looks like it's a little bit a

little too floaty okay yep

Yeah, to me, like maybe there's another brick course. Maybe you turn the brick there

to

finalize it or something. If that ends up happening. I really love the door. And honestly, this house looks a little bit like mine. It's hard for me to criticize at all because it literally looks like mine. So in the front anyway, and we have more limestone than that. The base would be limestone, but mine's a 1920 house. So That's the difference there. But I think you've done a really nice job. I do have a question about the asphalt roofing. I know they're trying to save costs, but on some of the elevations, it seems like there's a lot of roof going on. And I'm just afraid that it's going to be a little bit overpowering visually. Let me see which elevation I was talking about. The rear east elevation. That's a lot of

yes

yeah

yeah so there's a some landscaping back there the trees and i know that the um you know the neighbors back there have trees as well from my uh recollection but uh it's been that second floor up there into the roof as well

Yeah, but still, if you look at six, it looks compared to the front on five. The front on five looks more like what you're talking about Steve and then you go to six it's like whoa yeah well I mean if I had my choice like our house it would be a slate roof is I guess my point but that's a cost yeah

it is the slate imitation the Belmont shingle that gives some appearance of slate yeah but it's still an asphalt shingle

that's the one right there you just hit it Okay, that was just me. I think it's definitely not a box house and I love that. I love that you're using natural brick and not painting it white or distressing it. I think the exalting and the actual product itself as opposed to trying to mask it is always my way to go anyway. I'm not an ornamentalization person. Was that a word? I have COVID. I don't think anybody knows what they're... trying to survive tonight. But I like the idea of using the natural material for what it really is. That's my big thing. So to me, I think it's beautiful. I really do. That's all I have.

My name is John Hartwig. I own the property directly across the street from the subject property, 219 Lancaster. I'm looking at the picture there and I'm trying to determine, is there a movement of the driveway where it currently is now to where it's going to be? I can't really tell. Is it going to be shifted around? I can't tell.

Yes, yes. So I have the civil drawing up, that sheet one we were looking at before. And so the curb cut here is the same spot.

Same spot. It didn't shift over to the left or right. Correct. Okay.

That's all it? But the drive itself does veer. So right now you can see it here. It's a straight drive. It veers a little over to the left now. Oh, because you're

going to have a

rear entry garage. Good,

good. All right,

that's

my only question.

Thank

In the little vestibule at the side door, there's a nice side entry into the mudroom. And the door is recessed in. The walls there are siding, and I was suggesting a stucco lookalike panel.

Yeah, could it be like a hardy panel, like a stucco finish? Yeah,

yeah. It would be more in character than this little bit of siding, which I think would be harder to install. Helen, can you turn your mic on? Oh, I'm sorry. No, I would suggest, I was suggesting a stucco-like panel as opposed to siding.

Joe, would you agree to that? Yes, yes, if we need to do that. Like a hardy stucco finish board. I

think it would probably be cheaper than siding, cutting each little piece You can just cut it

and

put

it up. Yeah,

you want to also add the condition about maintaining the diagonals?

The diagonal brick patterns. Okay. I move that we approve as submitted with the requirement that the diagonal brick pattern remain as shown on the elevations and that the Pattern end at either the window head or the window sill.

Of the ornamental window. Yeah, the

ornamental. One of them ends at the head, the other one.

Yes, I think the intent is the sill, yeah.

Okay. And the condition that hardy stucco board, stucco panel be used instead of lap siding.

Second.

Aye.

Well, we're pretty much done with these other than these couple clarifications on the, so we'll be submitting soon.

The subject property is located on the west side of South Central Avenue, roughly mid-block between the street's intersection with Davis Drive and the street's terminus at Merrimack Elementary School. The property is developed with a two-story single-family home and is zoned R2. The applicant is seeking to construct a residential addition and make improvements to the front and rear yards. The proposed addition includes a proposed accessory dwelling unit, which requires a conditional use permit. A full analysis of CUP criteria can be found in the staff report. The proposed ADU would be located on the lower level of the addition and complies with the size and zoning requirements. It will include egress windows and an entrance with access to the front and rear yards. The ADU is proposed to be occupied by domestic employees and is as stated in a letter provided to staff and the Plain Commission. Staff are of the opinion that the proposed parking on site is sufficient to support the ADU. Staff recommend that this board recommend approval to the Board of Aldermen with the following conditions. One, that all conditions of Chapter 405, Article 2, Section 405.330 shall be adhered to and that the applicant shall record a deed restriction pursuant to Item 3 under Criteria Review. The St. Louis County Recorder of Deeds Office and submit proof of the required deed restrictions to the City prior to the issuance of a building permit.

How are you? I'm Chris Pike, Thomas Allen Group Architects. I think he pretty much introduced everything appropriately, so I guess questions?

Sure. Following the previous meeting where there was site plan and architecture review of the project, staff discussed the operation of the basement as it was proposed and also met with the applicant and the agent of the project to discuss this. And the basement construction meets the definition of an accessory dwelling unit. and also their intended operation to house a person who performs work on the premises meets the criteria for an accessory dwelling unit. And so staff recommended that they move forward with a conditional use permit, and they agreed.

Correct. Under the regulations for accessory dwelling units, it can be somebody who performs work on the property or somebody who is related to the family, but it cannot be rented out to a third party through any short-term vendor situation such as Airbnb or through any sort of long-term lease. So it has to meet the criteria, which I believe is reference number three in the staff report.

Correct. They would be able to do under the CUP. So conditional use permits not issued to a specific occupant.

Anna, I just had a question in terms of just, you know, is the square footage. So in terms of like the building code and limiting how many people live, is that all based on the building

permit rather than something that would go in a Additional use permit?

Correct. So in our regulations for accessory dwelling units, we do have a size limit, generally square footage for an ADU. And they meet that requirement, which is 1,000 square feet. Separate from that, we have the building and occupancy regulations, which is... they also conform to at this point so with the bedrooms that they've created there they have the appropriate egress emergency egress that would be required in other elements so they meet the overcrowding regulations that are in place as well

um but can more people live or up to a thousand is it do we know how many is it just two people then is that up to a thousand square feet

uh no so the the number of people, the 1,000 square feet does not dictate the number of people that could reside there. Based on the way that our accessory dwelling units are set up, it is not enforced the same way that we would do an occupancy permit for a rental unit where we would actually go in and they'd measure and there's a calculation that would be made. So in this instance, there is no limit set within the conditional use permit for the number of people as it stands. Oh, then. Oh, you're asking how it's set the occupancy?

Yeah, I'm just curious. And I don't, you know, I'm, I'm just Curious as because usually with our accessory dwelling units, you know, there might be an au pair living there or, you know, you know like a grandparents or something so i'm just curious how we do that i mean i just you know i just want to make sure that based on the square footage i don't know you know i just

true we in the past haven't used um put a specific number within the aducup to use all of the But for when the building permit reviews this, there will be other codes that we can enforce related to overcrowding or the number of occupants that are permitted inside of the house. But based on the review that we completed was based on two bedrooms, which is what they are proposing within the area that is designated for the ADU under this conditional use permit. So based on the two bedrooms is how we evaluated any problems do we feel there is a need for additional parking requirements or is parking met with what they have on site or how the impacts of the ADU might be felt within the operation of the single family home? So we kind of addressed it based on the two bedroom proposed.

I mean, I don't, I think since the requirements are certainly met by the code, I wouldn't have any problem certainly proceeding forward and recommending it to the Board of Aldermen.

Okay.

No questions.

No questions.

No

comments.

hands up, Steve.

Can you hear me?

So I'm the neighbor that lives on the south side of the house. And I just wanted to clarify the occupancy situation. So do all of the people that live in the home under this situation, the employee's family member is also eligible even though I think there's a child. So there's no restriction in terms of everybody having to be an employee. Is that correct? the child is eligible. Okay, I just wanted to confirm that.

Steve?

Yes, Steve Singer. I'm the resident with my wife on the north side. And I wanted to verify, I submitted this question before, that the city has indeed verified Daniel M. That the petitioner has in fact a employee relationship with the party that they provide any sort of independent verification of this relationship. Daniel M. Which would seem to be a pretty normal requirement. Daniel M. By the city.

They have provided a letter stating that this is a person who performs work for them on the property.

Again, my question was, did they provide any sort of third party verification? An example would be the center of Clayton to get a residency rate, you have to provide an independent verification of your residency, a utility bill, some sort of document that proves that. So has the party provided any check stubs, W-2s, any sort of evidence that this employment relationship does indeed exist. I say this, and I think the city certainly knows the ongoing difficulties that this petitioner has had and their willingness to violate Clayton procedures. So it seems reasonable that the city would do its due diligence as part of this process.

Any further investigation by the city is not required. I mean, there's a lot of people who perform au pair services, cleaning services and that kind of thing beyond the affidavits and submissions that the applicant has already submitted. The ordinance does not require anything further than that.

No.

I'll make a motion to approve. Hold on one second. With the two staff recommendations.

So the project was originally presented to the Plan Commission Architecture Review Board at the September 5th meeting. The board voted to continue the application to the September 18th and was then postponed by the applicant to allow for Public Works to review the project's impact on adjacent easement and to allow the applicant to consider revisions to HVAC roof screening to mitigate sound and to allow the app to consider revisions, to the facade material composition. Since the last meeting, the applicant has revised the HVAC screening to include insulated board to mitigate sound produced. Additionally, the plan includes revisions to the facade materials, which include a combination of brick and siding to better comply with the architectural review guidelines. The front and south facades are the most visible from the public right-of-way and comply with the commuterial requirements. The rear and north facades fall below the requirements that brick and stone comprise at least 75% of facade. Secondary materials exceeding the limit established in the architecture review guidelines are not common on this block of South Central, but are more common on rear additions in the Davis Place neighborhood. Staff have the opinion that the updated facade compositions in HVAC will result in minimal visual impact. Stack recommended approval of site plan review with the following conditions. The landscape plan depicts an existing dry creek bed that does not identify the proposed drywall and pop-up emitter, coordinate with the landscape and civil plans to ensure damage is not the system of existing trees to remain and that the dry well will function with the dry creek. And two, to ensure future maintenance and protection of drywall, the applicant shall record a deed restriction identifying the location and details of the system with the St. Louis County Recorder of Deeds and provide proof of the recording with the building permit submission. And then staff recommend approval of the architectural review with the following condition that any front yard paving shall match the city standard pour with an 8.5 sack mix of Meramex sand and gravel.

No, I do not. I think that, well, I focused mainly on the architectural because of the comments from last time about the brick and such. We have no problem adhering to any of the issues on the site plan as far as the dry creek and whatnot, though. so

I would just say, I mean, just in terms of the, because I know it's on the plans, you know, just in terms drainage and the, you know, dry creek. So, I mean, so, I guess, Ana, your concern, I guess, with the recommendation related to the fact that the plan doesn't identify where the proposed, Rob, is that what you're saying? I just want to make sure that everybody's clear on where the drainage is.

So the drainage is very clear on the civil plans and was reviewed for the stormwater runoff. The Location of the dry well and its connection to the pop-up emitter was not shown on the landscape plan where the overlap with the root zone, critical root zone of the trees to remain in the rear yard. That's an important place to show it. So we just wanted to call that attention to make sure that their landscape architect and their civil coordinate when they're installing the dry well so that they don't cause any damage to the trees there.

Got it. I just wanted to make sure that, yes, that MS, you know, that everything was in place for it. Everybody knows drainage is an issue over there. Absolutely. Yeah,

we'll make sure that the location is not interfering with any of the routes. I'll have the

landscape and the civil coordinated with that. Okay.

Thanks. I don't have any other comments.

And the pop-up, I'm sorry, and the

pop-up.

No questions.

No one.

Yes, I have one comment. Reading the letters from the different utilities, Spire is allowing you to encroach, but they're not vacating their easement.

So they actually...

I'm sorry, Lauren Davis. When I spoke with Spire, they told me that because it is a general municipal easement, Spire doesn't have a named easement just like Ameren doesn't, just like the water company or sewer don't have a named specific easement. Therefore, they can't vacate an easement that isn't named in their name. So what they said was they issued, I think they called it like a non-objection letter or an encroachment letter like accepting that encroachment because they're not named on the easement. The city of Clayton is ultimately the one who dictates who can use that easement. So their letters were just recommendation to the municipality that they don't have any problems with the use of that portion of the easement.

Your letter says in the event that Spire Missouri Inc. or its successors and assigns requires the utilization of the easement referenced above, and it goes on to say they can make no promises that anything that you do, they will not down the line require you to undo so they can use that easement.

I don't know that I've seen that specifically. This was

written to Lauren Davis. And regardless of what they've said on a phone conversation, this is what they've written. So I would like to see the word with regard to the easement that you may encroach, but not the easement has not been vacated. Vacated is a legal term. So that's all I'm saying is you're free to do it. This letter says Spire can do what they want. I'm fine with that. And but I think on the plans which will be kept everybody has their copy. It needs to be corrected that's all I'm saying okay corrected on the plants.

No comments.

Carolyn.

I had no comments. I think, well, I have one. Helen, I believe that those are their cover the butt notes that they put on drawings for Spire. But you're right. They could be covering their butt to a degree that could put the client in a hard place down the road. So that was a great thing to bring up. But I have no additional comments.

I actually it's Miriam this time I just and Steve i'm not sure if this goes under architectural review or the plan Commission, but I want to go back to the the unit that's going to be on the roof. I don't know how to evaluate whether what they've done and what they're proposing to do is satisfactory from our point of view. They're putting a unit that is by our bedroom. Typically, these units are on the ground. i guess i need you all to tell me whether what they're doing satisfies the concerns we have about being in the line of the noise of their uh unit

okay so um are Which side is she on

the

North side. Okay. Opening up my little map here. So, If it was on the ground, it would actually be closer to anyone's house. And we actually have this acoustic screen, which we wouldn't have to provide technically on the ground. We would have to probably landscape or whatnot, but I would say that this acoustic panel that we're constructing to hide it visually will also help with the sound reduction. But it'll be further away from the neighbor's houses with it on the roof versus on the ground. If we put it on the ground, it'll be remarkably closer to one of the neighbors.

uh i would say yeah i mean if you walk around let's say clayton or another city like clayton where there's units on roofs of buildings on some of these two and three story buildings i feel like they're quieter you don't hear them when you're walking on the sidewalk it's my opinion um but i feel like that's the case when it's up above you like that so um But with this centered on the mass of the structure, I feel like it's the furthest away it can be from the other houses. So I feel like it is a good location.

It's... What you can use in an exterior application, some of those softer materials will disintegrate with the weather. So this is more of an exterior grade insulation. So it'll help just to keep the sound from traveling. It'll help kind of bounce it back a little bit back at the equipment.

It could, yeah. With the roof plane next to it angled upward, it could be bouncing up in a way. Correct. Bouncing off the wall, bounce on the roof and go up. That's kind of the goal here.

I would say... Yeah, well, so the panel is going to be on the north side and it's going to be on on the west side. And then the other two sides will have roof structure, which it'll bounce off and up into the air.

Are you housing Metallica in here? I'm just curious as to what the big stress is really, honestly.

I'm saying, are you having, sorry, nine inch nails or Rolling Stones performing?

Just trying to be courteous as much as possible.

No, no, I know, but I'm not understanding how much noise we're talking about here. That's where I'm going. Yeah, the comment

from last meeting was, is it near our bedroom windows? And it's, you know.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, thank you.

I can add one thing real quickly. On this drawing, because it's flatter in dimensionality, if that's even a word, it looks like it's closer. When you actually look at it, above the garage addition, I believe, is 17 or 18 feet deep. before the wall where you see those two windows and then the flat roof, and that would be set back on that flat roof by several feet. There is also a driveway with complete egress to the back in between there, which is about 10 feet. So this would be at minimum about 27, 28 feet from the lot lines. So even assuming that the neighbor's window is directly above that lot line, we're still looking at about 30 feet minimum from the bedroom window, which as we all know in Clayton is a pretty considerable distance for any unit to be from another house. Our old house on Maryland Avenue in Old Town, it was about four feet from the neighbor's bedroom window, unfortunately.

exactly

Yeah, I'm still here. And again, I'm just going to say that I'm relying on you all to make the assessment that takes our interests in mind. Because I really don't have the expertise to evaluate this at all. I'm just raising the concern. On the ground, it doesn't bother me. I'm not sleeping on the ground level. I sleep up on the second floor. And that's going to be directly across. And as much as we can, we like to sleep with our windows open. So that's, you know, if you're telling me you guys think it's great, I'm good.

Wish I had a pointer on

this. The AC units will be located just above the word well where the cursor is.

And she is to the north, we said, right? Yes, above in this picture. Yeah.

Yes, I can see that.

They would actually be on the third story on the roof above that second story.

Okay, thank you.

So I have two questions. One is, I wanted to also clarify the drainage of the stormwater runoff. And also as Miriam just said, I wanna make sure that that runoff is not coming towards my house as it currently is. Um, and I'm just again wanting to verify that, you know, somebody has looked at the plans closely to confirm that it will not be coming directly towards my house.

Nancy, Nancy, this is Bridget. I just, I think that this came up, Chris, we spoke about, and I know, um, We talked about because there was some sort of pipe that you're not really sure it's on. It's on the path, like it's on the sidewalk, you know, and but that will be capped off like there won't like once because you're not really Sure where it comes from or why water comes from it or I have no idea

where that's coming from right so that will be dug up to accommodate the drywall and the creek. So that will be troubleshot and disconnected. Right.

So Nancy, it doesn't sound like there will be any sort of drainage at all where there is now because the pop up emitter and the drywall are located in the rear of the yard.

Yes. But there's one in there's one in the front of the house right now. That's also a little concerning for me.

Does it come? Is it like a it's coming straight

towards the path? Yes, it's a downspout with a pretty steep downhill.

So probably it comes off of a gutter into a, okay. And will that go into a sub pump now or will there still be drainage from the front? I'm

not sure. That's something I would need to talk to the civil engineer about.

That's really important to me.

I believe if my recollection is correct, that actually there's a drain going down at the base of the stairs down to the lower level. And I believe that that was going to be rooted into that same drain to then be rooted to that pop-up, I believe, into the drywall.

So I would like to suggest that somebody fully understands what's going to be happening.

Nancy, is it a drain by the front of the house close to your house? Is that where you're saying? Well, all

three of them or two of them are currently directed towards my house right now. There's one near the air conditioner, I believe. I'm not in town this minute, but... And then there's another one in the front of the house, and it's definitely from the gutters. But it's concerning because it's got a really steep decline. And I've seen water really flow out of there. And especially because there's a path. You know, your last thing you want is water getting on that path and freezing over at some point.

So when we do the... I'm sorry.

It's okay. Nancy, as a landscape architect, I can honestly say there is no right reason for anybody to drain off of their property onto another's. You always want to capture water within your property line as much as possible to not be a bad neighbor or a nuisance to the environment in general. So this does have to get figured out. I hear you completely.

Thank

you.

And I do have another question too.

one more comment to that so the one by the air conditioning unit is moving entirely because that will be excavated to accommodate the stairs so that won't be there at all um the one in the front as is customary on that it actually drains out towards the street we don't have an inlet for a stormwater runoff sewer for four houses on that street there's actually a civil engineer for the house two who's trying to petition to have MSD extend the stormwater inlets up the street because it would be customary to run that front roof elevation gutter out into the street, but because there isn't an easement there, they can't do it. Does that make sense?

I don't fully understand that. I just know that I don't want water coming with a steep pitch into my house.

Oh, that I completely understand. Honestly, this will mitigate what is already there and has been a problem like I spoke last time for 40 years. This seeks to eliminate that problem entirely.

The civil engineer knows to not add water to the neighboring properties or to the easement. He's going to handle that. I just am not sure how he was going to do it, whether it's going to be into the new excavation where the stairwell is going to be and into the sump, or if he's going to pipe that over to the dry well. So it will be handled. I just don't specifically know how he's going to do that.

And I believe that was part of the... I'm not sure which component, Ana might be able to speak to that, which component of the evaluations by staff and third party. I believe that was part of their components, was assessing that water was not just being put off onto the neighbors.

Yes, Sybil, she... that they have, sheet C2 is the stormwater control plan. So you can see the calculation, the differential runoff calculation. There's an increase of 0.05 cubic feet per second for the 15-year storm 20-minute design. The dry well capacity that they have is going to cover more than the 0.05 increase. So they have a sump system on this new stairwell leading to the basement that there's connected to the house sump. So the water from that corner that drains into the stairwell will be collected in the stairwell, sent to the sump, which is then sent over to the drywall system. The natural grade here, short of building some sort of wall at the property line, there's no way to stop all water from ever flowing downhill on the site. What we do require people to do is when they are increasing the stormwater is use some sort of mitigation techniques such as a dry well that will help increase the capacity of the site to handle that additional runoff so that no additional runoff is sent towards a neighbor. The dry well system that they've designed here has a volume capacity that's even greater than that minimum. that we require them to cover of the 0.05 cubic feet per second. I don't want to make you think that you'll never see any water flow across the path and towards your property because you will, because they are slightly above grade of where you are. However, based on this plan, you should not see a significant increase and actually you should see a decrease based on the dry well and the dry creek that they're creating.

I just want to make sure that we're talking about the same area because I think the dry creek is in the back of the house. Is that correct? It is. So I'm talking more about the front of the house that I'm concerned about.

Right. They can. So when we have them review the design, the It doesn't necessarily call out the front versus the back. So it's kind of hard to tell, but they have little dashed lines that represent like the connections to downspouts. In addition to that, we have a daylighting requirement that they need to daylight minimum 10 feet from property lines. So if they were to disconnect any of their fronts, front down spouts from this overall system, they would need to direct them somewhere into their front yard with a minimum of 10 feet before it gets to the property line. So that's where I'm saying that there's still going to be water that you'll see run across their front yard, but there should be a decrease based on their design plus the landscape features. However, we can add a condition if you would like that they under the building permit note specifically any front yard downspouts that are not connected to the rear yard system. And then we'll be able to ensure that they're constructed to meet that 10 foot requirement.

That would be very helpful. Thank you.

Yeah, I believe that front one that she's talking about is the one on the corner. That was the one that was there existing. That whole area will be changed by landscaping and I believe there's a small concrete strip going across the front just for aesthetics to bring everything to make it even. And so that will be, and like Chris said, I'm not sure if that will be tied directly into that sump or if that will be routed directly to the drywall in the back. But that was already spoken about and planned for in the capture of that. If for some reason I'm mistaken, it's not 10 feet from the lot line now. It's about three feet. So that would have to be in a different place that would be more accommodating to Nancy's property than it is currently, if I'm wrong about that.

Yeah, I just want to make sure that somebody is aware of this and that it's being overseen.

That would be great. And I have another question too, but I don't know if this is the time or for, you know, if there's other areas that we're talking about within the architectural plan.

Okay. So my other concern is that since this house hasn't been occupied for, gosh, I guess it's almost two years. And I know that there's windows that are open. I'm concerned about if there's any environmental issues going on in the house and how it's gonna be remediated, if there's gonna be any supervision of whatever those environmental issues might be, whether it's mold or... I don't know what the inside of the house looks like, but I know it's been open to the elements

I can speak to that the back edition that she's speaking of, is being torn off and being replaced by the new edition. So what is actually there, the windows are in disrepair, and were as well. So one of them is broken, and several have been open just for ventilation. The that's all getting torn off and replaced by the new addition. So all of that will be completely gone altogether.

Okay, I still have a concern about the overall house and the environmental conditions because it's attached to that room.

So the overall house has a good amount that's already been removed on the interior. The basement was where water was coming in initially. And so the drywall was all removed and mitigated already down there, even though it hasn't been occupied. This is intended to be my primary residence for many decades to come. And with children, I certainly have no desire to live in anything that isn't If I'm investing close to a million dollars, I plan to make sure that it's habitable. At this point, there isn't any sign of anything further, certainly nothing that would be a concern to neighbors or would escape in any way. It was mitigated and sprayed with mold. I don't know what they call it where they spray it down after removing drywall to prevent mold growth and fungal spores already if there was anything found to be an issue in the basement, which will be finished in its entirety. as part of this plan, it would certainly be dealt with the best practices standards if that was an issue going forward.

Nancy, as they go through with the building too, I mean, there'll be different inspectors that will come out at various points to make sure the foundation gets poured the way it's supposed to be poured and You know, it looks to me like the house will be pretty well gutted.

There won't be an edge of it. Yeah. I

mean, so I think a lot of the stuff that might have been exposed to the elements certainly will come out and there'll be, and I would think once all the new stuff gets in, all the windows will be closed and stuff. So hopefully the environmental concerns you speak about will go away just simply because everything will be new inside.

Right. It's the remediation process that I'm just making sure that we're all in agreement on how that, you know.

Yeah. I don't know that there's any remediation per se. I think that there's, I don't, you know, that's usually with asbestos and stuff and, you know, remediation related to asbestos is generally handled by the county. So I don't know. There was no asbestos. Yeah. I

As far as disposal of any like interior contents or anything that would have been damaged or had an environmental concern, if that's what she's thinking, that was already removed and dealt with when the water was discovered in the basement initially. So all that drywall was already taken out, encapsulated, tied off and disposed of.

I think so.

Yeah, on the plan. You're muted. I didn't. No,

you didn't. You're now muted. Can you unmute? How do we unmute? Here.

We can hear you.

Okay. Sorry.

On the plan, it has the dry well listed in the corner of the backyard that is actually the highest elevation. So, which would imply that the water will all be pumped uphill, which that part I don't understand. It's in the northwest corner, which is the highest elevation on the yard, instead of the lowest elevation where I would think you'd want to put it. so that the water would naturally flow into it.

I don't know if you... From a planning perspective, maybe you can...

Right. This placement is actually ideal. It can be a little bit more costly for the applicants because they do have to get the water from the... different collection points around the house up to that. However, when you're pumping in the dry well, what it does is it allows water to disperse below grade and then on bigger storm events where the dry well can't hold all of the water, it goes to the pop-up emitter, which is kind of its overflow valve. When you have it at your higher point, it allows for more capacity of the water to kind of dissipate as it flows across the grade so out of the dry well once the water is put into the dry well then it will naturally dissipate into the ground and what flows out of the pop-up will naturally flow across the grade so having it at that corner allows for more green space and other yard space on this property for the water to infiltrate before it gets to the property line okay

um okay i mean um There is across the property line on our side, we have a dry well immediately across the property line from that dry well. I don't know if that changes anything. I'm not a soil engineer. But in most big storm events, that dry well is saturated. And so it would seem to me that if you put two dry wells literally back to back, it would make it difficult for the water on the Davis's side to percolate. But I'll just throw that out.

It might not be ideal, but the dry wells are not very large. So if you look at the dry well elevation diagram, you can see the kind of diameter of the perforated PVC and the gravel fill that's in there. So it's within their property. However, if they were to place their pop-up emitter and drywall the minimum distance of 10 feet from their southern property line, it would likely in storm events result in more water flowing off of their property at a faster pace once it hits the pavement just south of them, that walking path. So in large storm events like we get now, There's going to, their capacity will be hit for the majority of the dry wells that are installed in our single family residential on those big storms. So this is still an ideal location to allow for some of the natural infiltration from their dry creek that they have to occur before it hits that southern property line.

Okay,

thank you.

It was the opinion of the civil engineer and also the landscape architect that if we had put it in what would sort of most people would think would be the ideal place in that other corner, that it would impact more root systems, that it would take up more space. And that the same thing, even some of that natural water that's dissipating into the soil would still flow downhill into that easement rather than capturing it at the highest point. This was in our planning discussed earlier. ad nauseum because there is a significant additional cost to pump it uphill, but it really is the only place that will serve the purpose of drying out that easement and also keeping our backyard and the usable green space that's there as much green space as possible and as dry as possible to make it as functional as we can.

I heard what they have to say, having lived with this water situation for close to 40 years. I don't agree with it, but I heard what they had to say. Move forward.

Yes, I think it will be from all property lines. So maybe make your condition that any downspouts not connected to the drywall system shall be shown to be a minimum of 10 feet from any property line.

Just to clarify real quickly, does that just mean that we need to have that shown on the plans, or does that mean we need to actually change anything or –

you you'll when you apply for your building permit you'll just note it with a usually it's just a little ds that your your civil will add there

okay great thank you

Karen Hollweg, i'll make a motion to approve with the first two recommendations and then adding the third that any downspouts from the building need to be at least 10 feet away. Karen Hollweg, From the building. Karen Hollweg , or wait i'm sorry from the property lines i'm sorry.

aye. Dave KuntZ,

any? The major one was the brick addition. So the two more public facades, the front and the left side, the left side being the side adjacent to the public walk, Those, the front didn't change. I didn't change any brick on that, but we were okay with our brick percentage on the front. On the left side at the public sidewalk, we are pretty much all brick. We're over 90 brick on that side. So that was essentially me adding brick to the entire addition on that side. That's on sheet A5, by the way, if you need to catch up. And then on sheet A6, Sorry. With the rear and the right side. On the rear, I added brick to the addition except for the cantilevered bay. I felt architecturally you don't want brick on a bay. So I'm trying to make things... work out architecturally, but trying to add as much brick as possible. And then I added brick to that side wing to the left of the bay on the rear elevation. And then on the right side elevation, I added brick to the lower level below the cantilevered portion that has that balcony on it. And we added some brick up above that balcony as well to kind of delineate the element that's cantilevered out on that side as well. So I've increased the brick as much as possible without... changing any of these box bays to something else other than a box bay or a cantilever. The screen on the roof, the HVAC screen, last time we talked, we had more of a Chippendale railing kind of screen, and the comment was made that I can't remember who the person was that made the comment, so I apologize. But... we felt like it might have directed more attention to it. So instead of going with the Chippendale railing style, we just more with a flat panel, which mimics the house, the stucco panel with the horizontal lines.

Yes. Yeah. Well, we're going to match the roof color versus the house color. So it kind of masks it as much as possible.

Yes. That's my intention. Instead of the Chippendale railing.

It would be painted to match. Yeah, painted to match. Correct.

Yeah.

color, in color, correct.

Yeah, there you can see on the rendering a better example of

that. Those are old on the screen, just so you guys are aware. It's from a moment ago.

No, I think that is the doer. Yeah, it's hard to tell on there. The

HVAC screening on this rendering, though, is still the more unique patterning instead of the straight edge, straight lines.

The facade materials are updated. It's the HVAC. It still shows that older style there, but that's the color, I believe, that you were...

Yeah, sorry about that. I think that may just not have been conveyed to the renderer to change that.

Hmm.

I can't even tell if it is

from

here.

i did narrow it uh based upon what you were kind of uh speaking on uh took it down from the 26 inch down to something a little less more like uh 14 inches or so I didn't actually

know that was there because I was pretty adamant that I didn't want it to look like siding, but more like big pieces of stone. Had I known that that was 14 inches, I would not have been okay with that.

I mean, I'm also fine. I think I like the, I like how the materials complement each other. This may be a stupid question, but I just, what is, what is in the, on the left elevation, there's something that looks like a black door. What, what is that? That, yes, that.

That's the fireplace cantilever.

That, okay. That's the, okay. Yeah. Okay. I'm not, I'm not a, this is not my professional background. So I didn't really understand that, what that was. So yeah. Okay. Got it. um but other than i mean i think it looks um you know adding in the brick especially um on the side honestly the sidewalk side where everybody walks all the time was a good idea so um yeah i'm i'm fine with it so okay

bob i can live with this if you can

hello i have a question about the shutters a5 of our new set shows shutters on the front elevation. And a seven doesn't have shutters on the

i think this is just a function of we have had about 30 different versions going forward this with the removal of the shutters was supposed to be the more current version they were just not removed they

need they needed to be removed from a5

okay next and the hardy panel siding that you're using that has a stucco texture right okay

that's why i want wanted originally for it to be the larger panels because i wanted it to look like a stucco or like a limestone as opposed to the smaller panels to me look more like a farmhouse look which i don't think is a a thing that clayton that is suited for clayton at all um So the smaller panels, to me, read farmhouse. But I think the larger panels, especially when painted to match the rest of the house, read more like limestone or a painted stone. That's why I wanted them to be the larger. But at this point, I'm willing to compromise on anything to get

this done. OK. And what material are the windows?

Well, what we call out here on the drawings, we're going to do the black aluminum windows With the wood cladding on the inside or the vinyl cladding or the vinyl on the inside, I believe. Did they decide which one they were going to go with? It's not

going to be wood clad now because it'll be black on the

inside too.

Okay. So then they're going to do all the black vinyl windows.

So you'll have black vinyl windows.

Yep.

I don't believe Clayton allows vinyl windows. Okay.

They're within the scope of what the code allows. It's called out on here with what exact manufacturer and what they are. I'm not sure what specifically that is. Somewhere on the plan said it had the exact manufacturer, the exact model number of the windows.

We allow vinyl-clad windows.

Vinyl-clad, yeah. The drawings... on sheet a six say vinyl window

whatever i

will we'll switch to vinyl clad uh that was up in the air as opposed to which model that we were going with

so it's a wood window with

a vinyl cladding no it's not a wood window it's actually i don't believe it's i think it's

Well, it's probably going to be the black metal window or the fiberglass window or the vinyl clad wood window, I thought. So we have to verify that. But we know that if Clayton doesn't allow the vinyl, we're going to go with one of the other ones.

It's not a cheap entry-level window. It's significantly upgraded, so I'd find it hard to believe that it wouldn't meet specifications. They're all casement windows as opposed to... double hung or anything like that. I

haven't

gotten that far to finish a spec on it yet. I'm just trying to get the overall

design. No, I was just trying to clarify, and if you were thinking just vinyl, alerting you to the fact that...

I appreciate it. It

doesn't allow it. What kind of a railing are you proposing along the low concrete wall It is shown for the lower level entrance.

We'll probably do a railing to match the second floor railing, either a painted wood or a metal railing.

Are you talking about along this side here?

There's actually a

current fence that will be on top of, that's the lot line. So there will be an actual fence and then it only comes out about a foot from there. So I don't think we had planned for an additional railing along that.

okay is it an area where someone could walk between the wall of the stair down and the wood fence

um i i don't believe so um i and i'll be honest with you i apologize i didn't know we were doing site plan review today i thought i got the email late i've been dealing with some other things. So I wasn't prepared for site plan today, but I believe so. I believe there actually is a space there between the fence on the property line and where the wall, the concrete wall, the retaining wall is going to go. Ultimately, I believe we will either landscape that area and just keep that from, you won't be able to walk there.

Yeah, there'd be no way to access because there'll be a gate panel on the front facing side and there'll be probably a stationery panel, because the gate would be too wide to open there that would borrow you from being able to walk on there. So short of someone like putting a ladder and climbing up there, it would not be not be easy for someone to get there. And there will be landscaping there in that couple

feet. And at this point, it's a landscaped area. So there's no railing required, but we'll verify the railing requirements will be verified under building permit review by the building official.

Okay, no, that's it. Nothing further.

I think it's a definite improvement with the adding of the brick. Just a quick question on the hardybore reveals. I know previously you were saying you were going to almost eliminate them or they're going to be aluminum or something. I'm just curious what you...

So, yeah, they're inset reveals and they'll be, they're not going to be a standout feature. It's going to be a small kind of just a reveal just to look like a stone grout joint in a way.

Okay. Okay. These drawings just make it pop a little bit more. They

don't really do it justice. It's just hard to see on

it.

I actually went around and took some pictures of other buildings that had stone like this, that had that same type of look that we would be trying to recreate with that cladding. I know I can't show it because the people who are on Zoom right now can't see. But if you'd like, I can pull it up on my phone and show you what it's intended to look like as far as the reveal.

sure so it's just do you have dimension wise like how

uh not yet no i'm going to um spec that on the on the cds what we'll do is we'll come up with a color and a dimension so

okay yeah i think more minimal the better

yeah it i mean it's supposed to be maybe i would say a half an inch i can't give you an exact but

it's not something that's going to be deep enough for okay but it'll be the same color.

Yes, it'll be Greek Villa by Sherwood Williams. It's not going

to be black. It's not gonna be stripes. Shadow line.

Yeah, what he was talking about the aluminum behind is just the track that the boards set on to hold them in place so that you don't have that three-dimensional board

and batten. You don't want the edge of the plank or the panel to be exposed to the elements. You want to cover it so it's not going to... For

sure. I just want to make sure you weren't highlighting it. It's not like shooter or

something where you see an aluminum finish. It's all completely just the mechanism behind that holds it in place. That's it.

Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm hearing a lot of we're not sure yet. I'm a little worried about some of the comments that the architecture, etc, are saying. I feel like all right, the rail, we don't know if it's going to be wood or aluminum, for example, we don't um what that material be we might change that material oh we might do this i kind of feel like i want a little bit more information here and i i know that you um i i would like some discussion about this because i'm kind of feeling like we don't really know what some of this stuff is going to look like because you guys don't it seems like to me from your comments you don't know

We know every bit except for what a two foot section that doesn't require railing would be addressed as we have talked about every inch of this house ad nauseum for 16 months. There is nothing here. that we have not discussed, considered, spec'd out, everything. I don't know specifically because I'm not a window installation professional what the exact makeup is of the windows. The vinyl or

whatever. I'd be happy to

submit. I know that they're casement windows and I know exactly what the bid is. I know exactly how much they'll cost. I know the different options because I have the bid from the professional. Okay. That's what I don't know off the top of my head. I can't tell you if that one gutter, which is the only one I don't know, is going to be tied in via the sump or tied in rooted directly to the drywall because I'm not a civil engineer and that was just beyond my pay grade, so to speak. I know that it was already planned for and accommodated. I just don't know without the civil engineer here.

Which

way that's going to be accommodated.

That's fine. I just want to make sure because I kept hearing during the last few questions, I don't know. I'm not sure.

I got to apologize. I've been dealing, this is a personal issue, I've been dealing with six inches of sewage in my basement for the last three days. I've been out of the office. I kind of was surprised by this meeting, to be honest with you. I was not prepared. But this... What we're doing, I feel, is the right thing. We will make sure that we follow what Clayton wants as far as these items that you're a little concerned about. I understand and I apologize. I am coming from literally coming from a sewage filled basement. I just jumped out of the shower and came here. Yes.

It's okay. I'm about ready to cry, to be

honest with you, with my issues and I have to try to get my mind into this project. I am not here right now and I apologize. We

will make sure that the civil

engineers drawings show that there's landscaping there or if we do want a railing, I want it to match the railing at the front of the house. I don't want to introduce a third, second, fourth railing. I want to match the railings.

Yeah, I like that because I think when you start to have different patterns in too many different materials, it starts to become like what I used to call as a kid is the Google house. It was an old book and I'm dating myself on that one where you just like piecemealed something together. And this is a very nice house. Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying when you start to not coordinate all the materials, it starts to become a little bit offsetting. I think this is great. This is a wonderful house. Don't get me wrong. But when I hear people unsure of what decisions have been made, it sends up a red flag for me. That's all. But it sounds like you guys have it under control. And I just want to make sure that I made a note of it. That's all

Thank you. The windows will be black. It's just we've got to figure out which model we're going with because of the optional bids. So whether they're all metal or whatnot, so we'll figure that out.

I'll just clarify. So the No railing is currently required if you want to add a condition that if they change that the railing would be added. That area is currently behind the solid fence and planted with coneflower, Missouri switchgrass, and some shrubs. So it is not a live load area that would require a railing currently, but if you want to the condition just in case they change that plan that the railing will match. Do you know what

the shrubs are, Anna?

There's some existing... Are they

evergreen is where I'm going? Because everything

else you just mentioned will be gone.

So this

is behind a solid wood fence.

Oh,

okay. Along the property line. So there's existing boxwood shrubs. There's some Missouri switchgrass proposed along with the coneflower and... hyper, hypericum. I'm sorry. I don't, you probably, no, uh, hypericum? Yeah, you got it. All right. There we go. Um, that is all being planted there, uh, currently in that strip. So there's, there's no live load. And then as far as the windows are proposed, um, the application calls for, uh, currently calls for black casement and picture windows um the exact specifications for those often are not not provided at this level but will be with their cds

yeah i'm okay with that i just kept hearing i don't know i don't know so i just had to mention something but that's okay i think we're good i think it's a nice house

originally we had called it out as no but i do know that since the original plans it is leaning in a couple places so that i would have to see i'm not sure if that can be repaired or if that would need to be replaced that i can't speak to because i just noticed the other day that it's leaning and probably needs some attention

Yeah, I don't know if it's just, I really don't know because I didn't look at the backside to see whether it was repairable. I just noticed when I was walking my kids to school that it was leaning in a spot. So I think the first cause would be to see if we could repair it and keep what's there and matches. If not, then we would obviously come back and apply for a fence permit to be able to replace that.

No. And Lauren, I'm just, cause I have trouble, but I'm not, you know, again, this is not my profession. I don't have trouble visualizing, but you probably know better. And obviously you do have young children. So you feel comfortable that you don't need a railing between the fence. I just don't want anybody to fall. I don't know. Cause again, I can't picture, I can't A friend isn't, you know, again, just to make sure that that area is cordoned off so kids don't fall over into the area. You know, I don't. Yeah,

I totally understand. I don't. I have an eight year old and a two and a half year old. So if there was any way for them to get up there or any reason for them to be. mean and i'm sure

you'll adjust as neat i mean i was yeah i think and i don't

have the landscape plan directly in front of me right now i think there's actually a tree or large shrub that would block from the backyard being able to access it at all the only access from the front would be at that gate and there'll be a fixed panel that would bar you i mean without literally putting a ladder up or yeah

and that's fine if that's the case i you know i think a shrub is not going to stop a child from going to chase a ball so but a fence like uh and

i

think like a

the section in question is about this big anyway and I do think that there is a big box would blocking that entirely so that might pretty much stop it but I will certainly look at that that maybe I'll have to look back at exactly what was planned for there yeah but I'm 100 confident that no really would be needed if ever there was a question that are really was needed I'd be the first one I just add that yeah okay

I'll make a motion to approve with the staff recommendation.

Aye. Aye.

When are you hoping to get started? We've already got, we had to wait because we had to adjust the brick load that he had to have his engineers adjust the structure. So we can't get the final plans drawn up for the building permit submission until structural engineer is finishing adjusting that. But I hope to have the plan filed as soon as we get the conditional use permit on the 10th. We hope to file on the 11th if possible. At this point, we're up against getting excavated and poured before it gets cold. So if I can have a permit and get that old addition demoed and have the new foundation and basement poured Right. Within 30 days, it could, you know, I'm on board with getting this done as soon as possible. We've been in a rental now for almost a year and we sold our old house in Old Town almost a year ago now and we've been uprooted. We want nothing more than just to get this finished and be done.

Thank you very much.

And I apologize about my frustration as well. This has been a daily conversation now for 16 months to the point where it's just taken over our lives. So we just want to get it done at this point and whatever that takes at this point, we're willing to do so.

Well, good luck. We'll be watching. I have a number in my house waiting to get in. Thank you.

Thank

you.

Yeah, I apologize. We weren't sure if we needed to be here today or if this was just a... We're continuing until after the 10th, so that's when I called Anna today at about 11. I called Chris and said, can you please be here?

Awesome.

That's all you need from me? Okay. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it. Have a good night.

Nothing further.

Nothing further.

Bob? I really feel for her frustrations. but nothing further.

Yeah, I do apologize for my having COVID. Next time for our meeting, I really would rather be in person. So I feel terribly about that. Honestly, my fever is at 101 something now. So I'm sorry that I'm not there, but I'm also happy for you guys that I'm not, right?

I feel like it's a cold. I mean, I hope it doesn't progress. So thank you.

Ryan? Nothing further. Anna?

Yes. So on Sunday, the 8th, Ryan and Hobie will be at the Music Nights at Oak Knoll Park with some engagement for our comprehensive plan along with, I believe, Tony Searing, Director of Parks and Recreation, will be there for the Livable Communities Plan doing some engagement. Tell your neighbors and friends to go to the last musical nights in Oak Knoll Park of the season. And then we will also be doing some engagement at the Blues Home Opener event here at City Hall, which is on the 12th of October. So come by, tell anybody that works or lives around here to come by, get some free lunch from one of the food trucks and engage about the comprehensive plan. That's

great.

Oh, also, I will send you an email out, but we are going to have the Joint Plan Commission Board of Aldermen meeting at the first Board of Aldermens meeting in November. So I'll follow up with an email to you all to attend that, but our consultants will be there giving an update on the presentation and as we move into the next phase of scenario planning.

So whenever I take notes for the minutes, I write down the time of everything. If you'd prefer, if you want me to send you videos, I can note timestamps there. I can note timestumps in the minutes. That's whatever you want to do. But I keep them personally for the same reasons for the next day whenever I go and write them. That would be a help.

If we could add the timestamps just onto your minutes when each item starts, that would be great. As far as accessing the recording, the easiest way to do it is actually through the agenda and minutes page on the website. So if you go to claytonmoe.gov and you hover over the government tab, one of the dropdown that comes up, there's an agenda and minutes. You click on that. And then it has all the meetings you can filter by meeting type. So you could filter just for planned commission meetings. When Ryan sends the recordings to get added to our YouTube page, then there'll be kind of a link or you can just follow our YouTube page. So

if you go to YouTube and you search for City of Clayton, Missouri, it will come up. Our YouTube page will come up and then you can click on the videos and it has the Board of Aldermen and the Plan Commission. And

Anything posted for

you're referring to minutes online

there should be minutes posted i can go back and double check that but usually once we approve the minutes the next day i go and i post them

like one of the September ones is missing, but we'll make sure that that gets updated because everything prior to that is on there.

right we can probably also investigate hyperlinking the minutes to the youtube we'll look into that yeah we could we could and then that way it would all be correct you know even more links

what is the name of the youtube

um i usually just go to the youtube home page and then i'll type in

city of clayton

and

then videos See those minutes from the if it was from the last meeting, those wouldn't even be available till tomorrow. So if there's a resident that's looking for a meeting that just happened, those would be available. Yes,

that's correct. We don't post them until after they're approved. by you at the following meeting. But that's why we could, after you approve it, the timing should work where we can link the YouTube video onto the posted minutes. But the YouTube video gets posted before the minutes get posted, the recording. So you can see that earlier than you would be able to see the minutes.

Yeah, that would be really helpful,

though, to be able to link the how you can go to youtube

right yeah i think we yeah i think i think ryan can figure it out he's pretty he's pretty snazzy with the technology stuff so

i have faith ryan

yeah