August 7, 2023 — Meeting Transcript

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Planning Commission ARB for August 7th. Any electronic gadgets, please silence them. And Ryan will start with the roll call.

Steve Lichtenfeld? Here. Carolyn Gatiss?

Here.

Bridget McAndrew?

Here.

Bob Denlow?

Bob Dunlow?

Here.

Helen DeFay?

Kami Waldman?

David Gipson? Here.

David Gibson? Here.

Okay, we have minutes from the previous meeting. in July, and are there any changes to it? I

have one. The second page, Bob is listed as Bud Neely, unless you've changed your name to Bud. We should probably change that to

Robert Bob. I had one other thing. I think the date at the top should be July 17th. Gotcha. Okay, do we have a motion? I'm sorry,

I'll make a motion to approve with those changes.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, we'll move on to new business tonight. Item number one, 421 Edgewood Drive is the applicant here. Okay, just hold on.

Ryan. Subject property is located on the west side of Edgewood Drive between Oakley and Shirley Drive. The property is zoned R2 and is developed with a single family home. The scope of work consists of the demolition of the existing front walkway and the construction of a new front patio and walking path. The home comprises brick, with majority of the home being painted white and a portion painted black. The concrete path leads from the existing drive to the front door and is lined with landscaping. The existing gathering space sits between the existing path and the front of the home. the gathering space would be relocated from north of the front door to the south. The front path and portion of the new patio are proposed to be constructed with surface flagstone. The remaining patio is proposed to be gray trap rock. The patio would be bordered by an 18-inch tall brick sitting wall and painted to match the house. Two trees are proposed fronting the patio, and one tree is proposed on the south side of the patio. Surrounding homes typically have front porches but are not of size sufficient for gathering space. Short plantings and shrubs can commonly be found surrounding the neighborhood front porches. Larger plantings can be found adjacent to gathering spaces, although commonly on corner lots. Although front yard gathering spaces are uncommon, the proposed patio replaces an existing gathering space and uses materials complementary to existing. Staff are of the opinion that the proposed patio will result in minimal visual impact and recommends approval as submitted.

Okay, thank you. The applicant would like to come up and give us your name, address, and anything else.

that

so we're rounding out that project and windows actually get installed starting tomorrow I think so that'll be fun and the door I think next week so the next piece of it was to just think about the exterior kind of landscaping and exterior the front of the house so really just wanted to find a way to kind of create a little bit of a sitting area out there and kind of The house is very simple and kind of plain and give it a little bit of massing around that patio with a sitting wall. So that's the idea. And then also create a walkway from the house down to the sidewalk. Right now, there's just a little walkway that goes over to the driveway.

Well, what we're looking at tonight, I think really improves the entire visual aspect. It gives the house a border now at the base and it holds it down. And I like the length of it going across. When completed, it'll look very good. The height is fine, the color's fine. I couldn't find anything wrong, but we'll see what everyone else says. All right. Carolyn?

I just had one question. How deep is the trap,

Brock? It'll be, I believe, I think we're going to do like a base of crushed gravel first. And so that'll be maybe... eight inches or something like, I don't, I'm not sure exactly. And then the trap rock would be like landscaping cloth and then other like four inches of that. So maybe we don't need to go down that far with the base, but it'd be something under there.

It'll

be stable. Yeah.

I didn't find

anything else as well. No, it looks great. I walk and run through there all the time on my way to Y down. So it's been fun to see the changes. Um, so it'll be great to see you kind of round things out in front. So it looks really nice.

Thank you. Bob? Steve said the words I was going to say. I think it's really nice.

Helen?

Looks good. Yeah, looks great. I love a front porch, so it looks great.

David? It's good. I don't have any questions. Okay, we have a

recommendation to approve as submitted. I

make a motion to approve as submitted?

Second. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay. Good luck with it. All right, thank you. Okay, now we'll move on to

7814 Forsyth, et cetera, et cetera, all the addresses. And we have three items, as you know, that are under new business and two items that are in a public hearing. But Ryan, you're going to do more or less a condensed version as we open it up.

The site was previously part of an approved PUD that contained the subject properties plus 7808 Forsyth and the alley between them. The previous PUD proposed a 25-story mixed-use condo containing 180 hotel rooms and 73 condos. A new proposal excludes 7808 Forssyth and widens the adjacent alley as opposed to relocating the alley. The new project was presented for conceptual review on June 20th and a community conference was hosted by the applicant on July 12th. The site is located at the southeast corner of the intersection of South Central and Foresight. The properties have a zoning designation of high density commercial district and are located in the northeast downtown overlay district. The project consists of the demolition of all structures on the subject properties, rezoning of the five lots to PUD and consolidation of the five lots and the construction of a mixed use commercial development on the site. The proposed development measures 20 stories and reaching 239 feet. The structure would contain 245 hotel rooms, a ground floor restaurant with outdoor dining, a seventh floor bar and terrace, ballroom space, ground level jazz club and an attached 235 space parking garage. The ratio of parking spots to hotel rooms was previously studied and approved at a ratio of 1.53. The new proposal reduces the parking ratio to 0.95. A revised parking study is required for staff to complete a full review. At the date of the staff report, a revised parking study is in process but has not concluded. Access to the parking garage is proposed off of Central at the southwest corner of the site. Pedestrian access to the restaurant and hotel is provided at the intersection along Central. Access to the jazz club is proposed on fourth site. A loading dock is proposed along the alley to the east. The recessed ground level will feature dark gray masonry units in the storefront window system. Light gray masonry are proposed cladding portions of the exterior of the parking garage that face the south and east into the interior of the block. A glass window wall of alternating glazing is proposed on the street facing facades, including the parking garage. Glazing in the parking garage will be opaque for the lower two feet 10 inches to provide screening of headlights and parking barriers. Dark gray accent metal bands are used to highlight a variety of horizontal bands along the tower at irregular intervals. Level seven is an accent floor featuring a recessed window wall system and dark gray metal accent columns along the tower on the west side. Masonry retaining walls with plantings are proposed along Forsyth Boulevard. The plantings and wall height change as the sidewalk descends to the east. The seventh floor terrace proposes to incorporate plantings along the railing adjacent to Central. Both Forsyth and Central will include the downtown standard streetscape with trees. The applicant is also proposing to commission two art murals on the site. The larger of the two is proposed to screen the south facade of the parking garage and would cover levels two through six. Three bald cypress trees surrounded by smaller plantings are proposed along the south garage facade for additional screening. The smaller of the two is proposed to be at the base of the east tower facade and would cover the wall from the ground up to the base of level 2. The proposed murals provide opportunities for placemaking and a relief from blank facades adjacent highly traffic areas of downtown. The proposed development incorporates elevated architectural design, including varying materials, plantings, and two murals that are compatible with surrounding development and mitigates blank facades. Staff are of the opinion that the proposal is compatible with the northeast downtown overlay district and surrounding area. The project proposes to close the existing northern access drive to the adjacent service parking lot along Central. The closure will be improved with the city standard streetscape and two street parking spots. A drop-off valet zone is proposed on Central from the intersection to the entrance of the parking garage. Six street parking spaces are proposed to be removed for the placement of the valet zone. Improvements to Forsyth Boulevard include the installation of PV charters accessible to four street parking spaces. The PUD must provide public benefits to the surrounding neighborhood and to the city above and beyond what can be reasonably achieved by the application of the zoning provisions from the original zoning district. The proposed development meets the minimum requirements for a mixed-use PUD and staff are of the opinion that the development contains a reasonable ratio of commercial and hotel uses. The project seeks relief from certain development standards that are set forth in the current Northeast Downtown Overlay District. The current required development standards, proposed modifications, and proposed benefits are identified in all staff reports. The full list of review criteria are identified in the staff reports, but I will provide some of the highlights here. Site is located in the North Central District as identified in the Downtown Master Plan. The proposed design incorporates goals of the district with the inclusion of widened sidewalks, additional plantings, outdoor dining along both Central and Forsyth. Each VC will be screened on the roof and trash will be handled via the loading dock. The site is 100% impervious and is proposed to be reduced to 97%. Runoff is projected to increase 0.02 cubic feet per second in MSD 15-year 20-minute storm calculations. The proposal includes widening the north-south alley along the eastern project boundary up to 24 feet wide to meet the city standards. The applicant is proposing the location of two dual electric vehicle charging stations to serve four street parking spaces along Forsyth. This section of right-of-way is heavily trafficked and has site distance concerns related to the alley. Staff recommends that the publicly accessible charging stations be relocated to the parking garage. Five bike racks are proposed per code requirements. Staff does not anticipate adverse impact with regard to light, air, noise, odor, public utilities, or emergency services. Staff are of the opinion that the proposed plan conforms to the requirements of a PUD and provides an appropriate number of public benefits. The parking study has yet to be completed at the time of the drafting of the staff report. Staff recommends that the public hearing and consideration of the request are continued to the August 21st meeting to allow the completion of the updated parking study and for the applicant to address any questions or comments posed.

Okay, thank you. Who would like to speak? Good evening. Steve Method. Do we need to switch the computer? Awesome. Sure. Okay. Well, good evening.

Chairman Lichtefel, city staff and board members, thank you very much for another opportunity to present this project. We have heard your comments and feel like this presentation incorporates all of them.

I'll give you a heads up on

where the project decided. I think you all are very aware of this, but the... This is Forsyth Boulevard here to the north, central is to the west. There's an alleyway to the east and to the south is the St. Louis County parking lot. Some photos that you can probably see better on your screen for the surrounding buildings. This is a 3D aerial of the project, and you can kind of see how its massing matches or at least fits contextually within some of the taller buildings as well as some of the lower buildings to the west and east. This is the main rendering for the building showing the northwest corner with Central here on the right and Foresight in the foreground. The building's massing includes a seven-story parking structure and a 20-story hotel, ground floor retail as well as the hotel lobby and garage entrance.

This

is a view looking east down Forsyth and again you can kind of see the massing of the building. Our tower element is the hotel The parking garage is to the south side of that. And then on the seventh floor, we have the rooftop garden and bar space. Ground floor space has a collection of uses, including garage entry here, the hotel entrance, corner restaurant and bar. And then on far northeast corner is a retail, which is a music venue jazz club. This is the view of the lower base along Forsyth. And again, the programmatic elements that you see here is the jazz club on the Eastern side, the restaurants and it's covered outdoor dining is here along the Northern portion of that. And then here's the primary corner. Central is right here. This is the night rendering, just to give you a little variety here. You can see that the building will glow with this many uses and also highlight some of the activities that we've demonstrated are going to be up on that very active seventh floor. Elevations of the building, again, will show you the massing of the hotel. We'll also show you some of the improvements that we've made to provide a glass facade to the garage, better incorporating it into the hotel's design. And on top of that, you'll see the seventh floor bar. One of the things that you might see in this as well is the additional mullions that were added to allow us to provide both spandrel glass and hide crash barriers behind for the parking garage. Those crash barriers will also block

headlights as well. Let me go back. I'll go backwards. Is that the next one?

Yeah, okay. So this is the south elevation improvements since the last time you'll see a reincorporation of the mural that we had in a prior scheme covering the parking garage and also the upturned beams on the east side where previously we showed cable rails. Now it's a solid barrier. We've also incorporated another art element here that would be the east side of the music venue. There'll be some better details, kind of detailing out exactly where the art is in a few other slides. This is the lower level. So again, the site slopes pretty dramatically from the west side to the east. And so it allows us two points of access. The main hotel floor will be off of central here, but all of the services will be off of the alleyway to the east. You'll have all your utilities back screened back behind this alcove here. And then trash and loading will all occur here on the southern portion of that. The Jazz Club takes predominantly the whole northern side of this, but half of it will be embedded in the ground. So really the exposure will be just this lower portion over here. This is the second ground floor access, if you will. This is the main entrance for the hotel, as well as the restaurant and the parking garage. We also have recessed the garage facade to provide a small bit of greenery adjacent to the

county parking lot. The next several floors

are a combination of both hotel and parking. Hotel rooms will essentially wrap the northwest and east sides of the building. South side would be primarily services. This is the seventh floor sitting on top of the parking garage where the ballroom pre-function and roof terrace as well as the bar will be located. And also a bit of back of house, kitchens, et cetera here on the

eastern side. This is a slide to show the

sidewalk along Forsyth and the additional 18 inches that we've provided along this length to provide more ample room for pedestrian circulation. We also provided a green buffer zone of planters that step down as the elevation changes to more gracefully transition from the pedestrian zone to the building facade.

You'll also see that

we've stepped the ground floor back off the facade to again provide some scaling and massing for the pedestrian zone as well as to provide cover for the outdoor dining that will be included. You can see all of the various levels of planters and plantings that are in this base of the building as well. The art program, I think we'd always reference that we would have a pretty robust art program, but now we've got some better definition as to what's included in that. There are primarily three elements to the art program. There is a At the signature corner, we will have some type of either ground mounted or suspended art, either from the structure above the restaurant dining or out here in a little bump out area of the sidewalk. Again, you'll recognize this one or possibly even that one, but these are just representative images. It will be something to the character and quality of these elements. On the south side, the parking structure will now reincorporate the screen that we had in prior schemes. We are still investigating artists and this will be a commissioned work. We would like the opportunity to look at both several separate images that would be within the structural base as well as one large image that would be stretched over the entire opening.

On the

northeast corner, we've got the art element that is now more appropriately shown here in its scale. It's the first structural bay on the east side. where we would bring the planter around the corner as a base element there, further protecting the art from the alley traffic, but also to give a nice base to what we're doing. And then we'll probably try to raise the art up within this space so that it again is protected from use both pedestrian and vehicular traffic. These are some examples of kind of three-dimensional or wall art that we would look to incorporate. But again, the artist will be chosen and presented to the Public Art Advisory Committee. As we presented in a previous plan, but failed to include the last time, we will still be taking the parking or the vehicular access to this parking lot, the county's parking lot out and putting parking in this area. There was a comment by staff of relocating the charging stations that we had that were over here on Forsyth to maybe the central facade. So this would be a couple of parking spaces that we could adequately put a dual charging station if that is the desire. And then for your... Consideration we would also like to reflect the fact that widening of the alleyway from 20 to 24 feet is being born 100% by this project versus split between the 2 properties because of the undeveloped landed to our East and so we would suggest some consideration to the value of that land that we're giving up for this. I'll come back to this in a second. A couple images again from the interior of the hotel. This was a prior scheme, but will very much be the flavor of what we begin the redesign of this interiors. So this is a view inside the corner restaurant with its corner bar facing Forsyth. This is inside the lobby lounge of the hotel looking north, so this will be the entrance here off to the left, this will be the registration and reception area to the right and then in the background, you see the

bar and restaurants. This is that reception and registration area for the hotel

with the lobby lounge in the background. And then although this rendering wasn't revised to the smaller footprint of the current terrace, very much the character of the space will incorporate both plantings and seating, all movable for various configurations and uses of this space. In the background to the left, that would be the seventh floor bar. To the right, that will be the pre-function area for the hotel's ballroom. And this is the image of the typical guest room. And as the canopy incorporates various signature canopies over beds, this is the interior designer's rendition of that. You can see some of the other elements of floor ceiling glass in those units will provide a very nice light, spacious. And then

we're back to that now. I'm gonna get back to the fly-through. I probably figured that out. Okay, started. So this starts over on Forsyth,

kind of moving from the east to the west. You can see, I'll pause this briefly. So this will be the entrance to the Jazz Club. It's a double high space, taking advantage of the slope of Forsyth. And then behind it here to the right is the private dining space off of the restaurant. To the right side, you see the outdoor dining under the covered overhead

structure of the hotel. I'm not going to quite show you where that... Oh, we will. The mural is

right here. Again, configuration and sizes as per the last slide I showed you, but that'll provide an opportunity for a little more

interest here on this corner. So as we go

west, you'll note again the planters and plantings provide some break from the scale of having a 20-story building but pedestrian walkways. You see outdoor dining for the restaurants

here. Signature bar will be here in this corner. Our way around. Entrance to the hotel here on Central. Talking faster than it can move. Hotel entrance. As it continues spanning, you see valet stand here. That's the lobby lounge

through that window. So again, the hotel's ground floor activities will really activate the pedestrian area. And then here on the southwest corner

is the entrance to the parking structure.

Up here, let me pause briefly. This is seven-floor outdoor terrace with its bar here to the left. And then...

ballroom building. Anyway, so outdoor terrace, pre-function ballroom immediately to the That concludes our presentation.

Thank you very much for allowing us to do this. And if you have any questions, we'd be happy to answer.

Well, my first comment is it's good to see the active pedestrians in this video that you showed. We hope that that's what we will be getting in the long run.

Absolutely.

Good. Well, we have several items to go through. I think it might be good to start with the the site plan review, starting on the very basic down at the ground level. And we'll finish up with the public hearing items. Now in the staff report, the site plan was written together with the public hearing. So I'm sure that we'll have some redundancy in the discussion. But when we look at the site plan, one of the things you mentioned was the EV charging stations. They were originally on Forsyth. Now you're proposing them to be on Central. Would you envision those as being dedicated EV stations or could non-EV cars park there?

I think... I'll have to see how it fits within the city standards, but we would definitely want them as dedicated EV charging.

Had you considered them to be within the garage?

We have. The idea here was that we wanted to put them in the public way, access for the public. There was some discussion about the parking garage and whether or not it truly was accessible to the public. And so we can locate them all within the garage if

necessary.

I like the idea that they're accessible to the public, but I'm a little concerned that they may not always be occupied by an EV vehicle. So I think maybe a little more thought has to go into it.

Well, I think we have both options. And so if you'd prefer one over the other, we would certainly

change and incorporate them.

Well, I'm recommending that it be available to the public. And if you decide to put it on the roadway, somehow you'll have to work it out with the city because they may not be used all the time if they're reserved only for EV. Okay.

Yeah. If that works for you, that's your decision. Okay. Basically,

I really thought that the site plan looked pretty good. That one bothered me. But in pulling the south facade in, have you given up some garage space?

You know, we pulled the stair towers out of the circulation for the garage and that's what you're seeing here. So if I go to see that this is a very traditional spacing for the garage and then gave us the ability to pull these stair elements

out area. Okay, so

then now you did indicate that the public green space on the seventh floor became smaller.

Well, when the project incorporated the parcel to the east at a bigger building.

Yes.

So that terrace was by extension bigger. It is now sized for the size of the ballroom and size of the project.

Okay. Let's talk about on the east side, the alley with the four-foot expansion and the

loading docks. Trying to stay in site plan issues. We have to go to the 24-foot

area. city required alley. But in looking at the loading dock, and I know we have a drawing in here, there it is, C4.0, just seems very tight. And what seems to be tight to me is where the stairway is. And I see it slightly recessed, if I'm reading the drawing correctly,

from the alley. I don't know if you have that drawing to put

up.

Well, I think you can see the same thing in this image on the screen. The stair is shifted west.

Right. But still, the structure is there that I think is going to determine how those trucks get in and out. I'm sure you've had your engineers studying that. And do you think they'll be able to make it around that structure part of the building as well as the property to the east, which I believe has an electric power pole on that corner?

There are. And Josh Barkus with Stockton Associates, we've run the auto turn scenarios for the trucks utilized. And everybody knows most of the alleys around here are always pretty tight, even when you widen to 24 feet. There'll be some electric work as we take down the poles in the alley to put parts underground. And we'll study that corner along with Ameren whenever we do that. But we do believe we can get the truck in and out of there.

Okay, so even if you were to remove a pole on that southwest corner of the property to the east, you would still be able to get the trucks in and out on the two alleys that will remain, the north-south and the east-west, without encroaching on the neighbor's property?

That's correct. Okay. Um, as

far as site plan goes, uh, let's go around and see if there are other comments. Carolyn.

Yeah, sure. Um, besides what Steve already said about the, my biggest thing was the turning radius and the access of the loading dock. I was worried about, um, not just what Steve mentioned, but also the hitting of your building, um, with how tight that is. It's, um, um otherwise i mean i think i made most of my comments last meeting and i see a big improvement on a lot of it so

just in terms of the site plan review with the six street spaces that you guys are taking for valet along central is that so How, and on our date, like, so will there be, because we're going to lose some revenue along there. So

they'll have to, there's a permit process where they'll actually rent those. The function of valet is something that they also were taking into account with the updated parking study. So I think part of, they're only having one valet now as opposed to two from the previous proposal. and they're restoring some on street parking elsewhere, but public works ultimately will work with them just like they did for the residents. And once the hotel is actually ready to open with exactly how that ballet will function.

Okay. I just wanted to make sure, I mean, it wasn't, but it's just one of those questions. I just, you know, we don't want to lose parking revenue. So I think that was the only question I had related to the site plan stuff.

Bob, nothing at this moment. Ellen.

it. Amy?

I have no issues with the site, ma'am. I had one more comment about the EV. The garage is fine. We have an EV and there's an app and everything else tells you on your car, it tells you where you can go get your EV charged. So it doesn't have to be right in your face on the street. It can be in the garage as long as that's open to everyone. David,

questions? Okay. Any comments from anyone in the audience on site plan review? And Ryan, do we have anyone online? Okay. Well, let's move on then. Let's talk about the architectural. which is mainly the exterior of the building. We really did talk quite a bit about it last time. I personally like it. I like how it's broken up, how the exterior glass is not all one color and the way you incorporated the garage into the overall structure, I think unifies the whole thing much better. So as far as the exterior, the architectural, I was curious about the rooftop. Of course, we don't see it on the rendering here, but we do see it on the elevations. And could you describe those, what the screening is, what all the equipment, the tops of all the equipment.

I'm talking about the roof, the very top roof.

Very top roof, right. And then we'll come to the other roof.

Describe what screens we have up there.

Tim Sandrig with LJC

at

the architecture firm. I'll jump you up to the elevator.

So part of the reason you're not seeing it in the renderings is because it is set back on the north, east and west facades. So depending on the angle you're at, you won't see it. So the adjacent streetscape just directly across the block, you won't really see it. As you step further and further back though, obviously it'll become more apparent. And the goal is to set it back roughly 10 feet, but make it not too tall, but high enough to completely cover any equipment that's there. And that bar that you're seeing at the top, part of it is just a screen. And part of it is the continuation of a screen in front of an actual enclosed penthouse for a lot of the equipment up there. But the goal is to get it all up there in lieu of having it on some of the lower roofs, for instance, at the event space where it would be more apparent and more visible.

So then a building that is higher, whether current or future, would still see equipment if they look down on it. But from the street or any buildings lower, we would only see the screen wall.

Correct. Lower or in the same elevation of. For instance, if a window were, let's say, at the 20th floor, you would not see the equipment. And then as soon as you'd start going up, it would begin to start looking down into that area.

Is that a ventilated screen wall or a solid?

Yes. And depending on the final configuration of a lot of the final pieces of equipment, we may have to define that a little bit more, but portions of that would have perforations in it enough to just get some airflow if needed. And that would kind of change potentially along the perimeter, depending on what's needed for the equipment.

Okay. Now, is there mechanical equipment on the seventh floor?

Yes, that would be the event space roof. So no. So the idea is that all of the equipment would be up on the high roof and the equipment for the event space there is... Actually in this drawing right here, you can see we're actually putting it on the lower level of the garage just below it and then ventilating out the alley side. Again, doing our best to keep the visual impact is to a minimum.

It's hidden behind an enclosure.

Yes, behind a louvered enclosure

there. That's on the top level of the garage.

Right. Yeah, the garage is, the event space is completely on top of the garage. So it's really just the top floor of the garage will have a room, a mechanical room that will, it's east wall. Yeah, actually, if you go, it's actually down there. So this is a typical floor of the garage. This zone right here on the top floor of the garage will be our mechanical room for that. And then this wall here would basically be a wall of louvers to allow airflow in. And again, that faces east, faces the alley. It's within the extents of that larger building to the east as well on the corner.

While we're talking about ventilation, will the garage be mechanically ventilated?

Partially. So we do have, obviously the entire east facade is open above the crash barrier, and then the south facade with the artwork, the idea is that artwork would be a scrim and potentially depending on the final artist and the design it may vary in terms of its permeability, but those two sides alone will not allow for just natural ventilation. So the screen, they're changing to the glass on the west facade, will require some additional fans inside of the garage to blow air

around. Then the headlight barriers,

how high are they? So on that west side behind the glass, so the code requires you to have at least a two foot nine barrier for crash protections. Obviously cars can't go through that wall. We've played with the proportions of that and actually, because we were looking to take it a little higher, because at this point it was actually more about the aesthetics of the west facade and running that mullion from floor to floor, keeping it only about two foot 10 is what we left it at, which is so anything below two foot 10 would be spandrel glass. And then above goes back to the transparent glass, transparent slash reflective glass. So yes, the two foot 10 is

the height of that. So we could see some headlights probably as they're going up a ramp potentially?

From certain angles, from higher stories of buildings across, yes. But none of the cars actually park facing that direction. So in terms of having headlights directly up against the glass, we don't have that configuration. But yes, even if we, for instance, I think to answer your question maybe better, even if we had a seven foot tall barrier there, you would still see the headlights at certain angles when those cars are coming up and down the ramps or up the ramps.

Well, I think the glass facade on the west side changes it dramatically from just a perforated screen that we do see around the city. So

that should help. Let's talk architectural, Carolyn.

I like all of the changes that you've made, honestly. I'm really happy with the murals moving down. The last meeting we had, we had a discussion about it being high up where you're already saying people aren't going to see the recessed systems on the roof. So how could they have seen the one that was proposed for up there? So I'm in agreement with that and having them down below and I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with on that. I think that's going to be really important. And it's going to add a lot of life to the street. Well, and not just the people in your rendering, which I was kind of laughing to myself because some of them were wearing really big sweaters and some were wearing shorts and, you know.

You got to be prepared for constant change.

And different people, right? But it was just, yeah, it was really funny. Honestly, you might have to come back to me because I I don't, regardless of what you said once again, I mean, agreeing with what you said, lower the building too. It's not 21 floors anymore.

No, it used to be 25 stories and we reduced it to-

Last time it was 21 and now it's 20,

right? The building is still 21 stories on the east end where you have the lower access to a loading dock. And on the

west end, it's 25.

basically a full story of grade change from the east to the west so depending on where you're looking at it and how the loading dock and such works the basement kind of falls out it's like almost like a walkout in a sense so

um i think you you brought a lot more life to the base and it seems like there's more retail it would almost be nicer if if there weren't just like three uses on it like more stores as opposed to just um just saying to add variety but With the seventh floor, I think that helps a lot with it.

Richard?

Um, yeah, I like, I mean, I really do like the variation in color. You know, I think that's, it's not, you know, I don't want people to just say it just looks like the glass building to the east. You know, it wraps around the corner. So we're not looking, you know, at a garage face, which I think, you know, we've all kind of talked about. Um, I love the widened sidewalks at the bottom and to be able to look up and see what appears to be like a a faux wood paneling underneath. I think that's really nice. It breaks up the glass, you know, that you see above it. Of course, love all the plantings at the bottom. So, yeah. So, I mean, overall architecturally, I think it's great. I think, you know, I think we are still going to see that garage face on the East side, but, you know, um, I keep trying to imagine what it's going to look like, you know, if you're on the other side of that bank building and looking, you know, and it's, and it looks like the building primarily takes up the entire garage space. So, um, so I'm less concerned about screening there and obviously, of course, understand the need for ventilation and stuff. So, um... I think overall, I think it looks like a nice, you know, an attractive building.

Let's talk about nighttime. As I walk past the garage on the side, not foreside, is that it? No, central. Do I see the garage through the glass? Yes, not the cars. I know I'm walking past the garage at that point in time. Or if I'm across the street, do I see a garage that's being covered up by glass? Is it see-through at night?

Well, it's a combination

of translucent transparent glass at the

crash barrier

level. Right.

I think, yes, there are times where you will see through into a parking garage.

If I'm across the street at the old St. Louis, at the administration building or St. Louis, old St. Louis County, I think it's a police station building now, and I look towards your building after it's built, will I be saying, oh, that's a parking garage on the right? That's a parking garage I'm looking at. Okay. And... And during the day, I wouldn't say they see that. It's nighttime, I don't see that. As I am on the east side, there's no screen of the parking garage, as I understand. I just see the garage from the alley. I look up, I see it. Okay. And on the south side, I'm going to see some artwork going up there, which I think is terrific. So that's the garage as I understand it. You've made an improvement for sure. Significant improvement from last time. So I give you kudos for that. As I walk down Forsyth, you create a little more public space or sidewalk space. You've got seating along the edge of the building, which is nice. And of course you got the jazz club, which, you know, I'm a fan of that for you guys. Well, I have, but the building is like a vertical line all the way up.

Except for the ground floor.

Except for the

provided a lot of activation of the ground floor plane. I think you're going to see a very diverse use of outdoor

dining. I like that. At the same time, I mean, I really applaud you for that. I think you guys have worked really hard to increase that. I'm just trying to put myself there while I have a feeling like there's a dam wall vertical above me. that concerns me a little. There's no setbacks at all as you go up the floors. That concerns me a little, but I know why, trying to increase the space that you have to the max. I think you did a nice job on the first floor pedestrian experience. I really do. Architecturally, it's To me, just another rectangular glass building that you put a little zip into it with a seventh floor. My fantasy for Clayton is to find a curve in the building somewhere. And it's not going to be this one. But with a different color glass and that thing, I think you're trying to do the best you can given the rectangular building that you've chosen.

Yeah, and I,

you know, I'm always looking, you're increasing the space for people to congregate, meet, walk. And I applaud you for that. That's it.

Ellen?

Yeah, that's Carondelet and Bemiston.

different. That's it. Amy?

Mm-hmm. That's a very good point. I didn't even think about that walking up Bema Stinn, that you really will see that angles. I'm always walking up Forsyth thinking about that. So that's a very good Point, I think. Overall though, I do think the improvements you made and you listened really well are great. I do like the glass facade on the garage a lot. I think that just you know, the continuation of the building is not two separate elements now, which I think was a big issue that we had. I do really like the two murals. I think it's a neat concept to have the one on, you know, like a screen or something. That's smart, really smart idea, I think. Yeah, and then just agreement with everyone else, but definite good improvements.

David. My only question, Steve had asked about that perforated screen for the rooftop mechanical units and what's the material for that?

Metal. It would be a perforated metal.

Okay. So metal. That's not the fabric type?

No. Okay.

Great.

Okay. Staying on architectural, I'd like to go back to some things that both Bob and Helen brought up. Bob, you brought up view of the garage and mainly at night. There will be lighting in the garage, usually at the ceiling level. Have you considered that maybe it is shrouded so that it doesn't shine out the building? Because you will see the underside of the slab from the ground level.

Absolutely. And

if we're looking through glass, you'll see it there. It sounds like the headlight problem is resolved, more or less, but there will still be spots of light. I

think if I'm taking what you're saying correctly. we will still see the underside of the light unless we recess the light up into the shroud, but it still needs to cast enough to provide sufficient lighting on a widespread area. So if we just hid the sides of the light source, would that be the improvement? Yeah,

typically what I've seen in some other locations is that only one side of the suspended light, instead of recessing it into the slab, which is costly and not very efficient, you can just shroud it so that the light goes in 270 degrees and not come shining out. And that would really mean, well, put your first light close to the glass so it doesn't have any light coming out of the glass. And then as you go in further on, because you're, if I remember, the garage, one is going down and one is going up. So whatever it is, you will always see the underside of a slab. Because I think that could be a big difference at night The other thing about night, and this goes into what both Helen and Bob were saying, is the perforated screen on the south side, there'll be light coming through that also. So I think whoever the artist is will have to consider what that looks like during the day when the intensity of light is on the exterior versus the night when the intensity of So, you know, the lighting I think is going to be a major thing to consider how you have sufficient light within, but what it does to the context around the building. You don't want to have these bright lights shining out. And yet it could be very interesting, whatever the artwork is, that the art takes on a different nighttime appearance compared to a daytime. So think about that one. And then what Helen was saying about the view from Rondelet and Beamiston, where a new, I think, 24-story apartment building is going. I walked from that corner up, and I think some of the residents will see not... over the Simmons Bank building, but from the south of it. They will

see the garage. Hi guys, I'm David.

So I think... We've shielded the light. So as cars are pulling up there, they won't be seen through. I think the other thing we have to remember, it's an alley. Okay. And typically in developments, you don't do the same thing on alley side that you would do on the street side. So We've really, and we've dressed up that, Helen, I understand what you're saying. And I do agree that as you're walking up from the new apartments, you'll be able to see beside the bank, Simmons Bank, you'll be Again, we've hidden the headlights. That's what we put those barriers in so the headlights will not be shining through. And honestly, we just we've dressed up. We spent our money in other places. All right. So that we dressed up the south side and we put all the glass on the. west side right so this is this is the best we're going to be able to do on the alley side and i think we've accommodated what you guys asked for the last time which was to make sure the lights headlights weren't shining through it's still a garage it's still an alley if you look hard enough you will be able to see into it i don't think we can stop that so if that makes sense

I agree with that. And what I was saying, the vision of the garage from the west side, you could almost shroud some of the under slab lights on the east.

And I'm trying to understand, is it bad that you don't do you want it to be dark? Is that what you're saying? Because I think... We want some light to be up there, right? So I don't know. I think the guys, the engineers got to play with that lighting to see if in fact that makes it better or worse, right? I'm not quite sure about that.

I think having a general glow of light is okay, whether it's coming through glass on the west or the open space on the east. But I worry about those points of light that tend to be much brighter than just a general low.

Yeah, and I think that the engineers are just going to have to look at that when they do their light study. And Bob, we have a curved building. Our condos are curved, okay? If you remember, we curved that building, all right? And so, all right, thank you guys.

Thanks for bringing that up, David. Okay, any other comments from the audience? Yes. Come on up, Phil.

So I'm Phil Holtz. I'm with Green Street. And I think ultimately, I think what's going to happen is that parking lot that you see there is going to get developed. In fact, we have expressed interest with the county, have met with them. Ultimately, we see this all being developed in a more cohesive way. And your concern will being dissipated, but also enhanced by putting something there that's more in a parking lot. So I think that's the ultimate goal. That's our goal. We met with the county, met with the city about our desire. And I think that's in the works. They've done a lot of studying about how to redo the buildings that are on the west side of Central, because that's in the future of what the county government needs to do. And I think you'll see this whole district change dramatically in a good way. We're at the start of it.

Well, thanks for bringing that up. We're ready to work with you.

Yes,

likewise. Thank you. Thanks, Phil. Any other comments on architectural? No? Okay. What we have left, let's see, is rezoning and PUD, which will be a public hearing, and the consolidation plant.

Is that part of the public hearing? Plots require a public hearing at the Board of Aldermen level.

Okay, good. Let's talk a little bit about the consolidation plan if you want to start it off. You're

looking for a summary? I

think we pretty well know what it is. It's five lots. and they just need to be consolidated

into the one. And the only thing about

that, we would continue it also to the next meeting. So really right now we can probably go right into the public hearing. Anyone have any questions before we go there? No. Okay, then we will go into the public hearing on the rezoning and the planned unit development. You've already heard the staff report. Ryan, was there anything else that needed to be said before the public hearing?

Any of the items for my notes for this were covered in that summary.

Thank you. So we will open the public hearing at this point. And if the applicant has anything else to add to it, because we will be going through the public benefits, they fit in there and see where it goes. So if there's nothing else to be said from your side, we'll get started then. The first of the two items is the... the rezoning and we would be rezoning it. It's currently the high density commercial, and we'll be rezoning it to the PUD. And to go there, we have several code alternatives. And if you'd like to go through them with your recommendations, then we can talk about our responses to it.

Yes. Thank you. PB John Gerstle, And actually

before that if you have table one the required code alternatives that is on page three of the request for a RB and plan Commission consideration that would be the appropriate place to start.

So the

setback above the sixth floor along Forsyth, that's an item that, as you can see, we did a significant setback on the ground floor and above. It does not step back. And the... Oh, the parking not being set back the 60 feet from the facade obviously the the site really is the size of the site and the size of parking garage didn't really accommodate for that so our parking garage is up against the property line or within proximity to the West property line but where we talked about where the classes

behind that glass. And then in terms of the

access, so the access to any of the development per the district is to be via the alley. Due to it being a high-end hotel, the access from the alley was just not practical. So having the access along South Central was another variance. And then there is a requirement that That said, entrance was to be no larger than 18 feet. And in order to accommodate the two-way traffic into there, we've kept it as minimal as possible, but 18 feet just wouldn't be a safe practical entrance. And what are you proposing? Approximately 23 to 24 at the actual sort of throat of the road. The curb cut will spread a little further. I don't have the exact dimension of that outside of the curb cut.

So all four of these require a waiver for us to proceed. So we certainly will consider that. Actually, Bob, you brought up the step back earlier. I really don't see a problem with it, but we're not yet ready to vote on it. From that, then I think we can move into the public benefits because we'll certainly be acting on all of these, both the code alternatives and the

proposed benefits. Yeah,

so the first public benefit is constructing buildings exhibiting architectural distinction and significance that would make the development unique. I think you can see from the elevations and renderings that we proposed that this building will be unique and architecturally distinct and at the same time fitting within the central business district of Clayton.

And of course, you're requesting five points. Staff is suggesting four. Personally, I think that's fair. I do think the building will be distinctive. It's not over the top, it'll fit into the city. But it does have some design elements to it that will make it unique compared to many of the other buildings. Are there other comments about that the distinctiveness?

I think the staff pick is

the correct amount. Four points. I would just say

it's probably a little high. I mean, what makes it more than just an average building is your seventh floor treatment, what you did on the first floor. I give you kudos for that. But at the end of the day, it's... just another rectangular glass building. I don't want to diminish your work or anything, but I mean, he did a lot of nice things to it. That's why it does have some distinction. I would give it a three, something like that, but it's not a big

difference than four truth be told. Any other comments?

I mean, I would tend to agree with Bob. I think the color does add to it, but it's ultimately a rectangular glass building. I think there are other places where I would consider adding more points, which we can talk about. But yeah, and I just know the Board of Aldermen tends to really put a lot of weight on architectural distinction. And not to paraphrase Bob, but without having some sort of curve where there is actual architectural distinction, I think there might be less points awarded there, especially at the board, just as a...

heads up to all of you.

At the prime corner.

Amy, any comment?

with Helen. I think a four.

David,

any comment on that?

I would tend to agree with Bridget with a three. I just think ultimately that's probably

where this ends up. Can I just add one more

thing? If Helen's idea of putting some kind of covering on the East side, I think we go, when she said that just made a lot of sense. I mean, I hear what you guys saying it's cost at the end of the day and it's just an alley, but with the County giving up the seven up building shortly, I think there will be a lot more pressure to do something with the parking area and who knows who's going to have it in the end. And I think somebody is going to be, a lot of buildings are going to be staring at that east side sooner rather than later, I suspect.

Yes, I like that. Nice. That's worth at least a point.

I agree with who said you got to choose and pick where you spend your money though. You can't spend it everywhere in the building or else you'll wind up with mediocre everywhere on the building. So I'm a believer in special mods more.

Any other comment on that first code section?

Let's move on to the second one, and there are actually four parts to it.

Okay. The overall code standard is provision of new and enhanced public infrastructure greater than the minimum code requirements, including but not limited to establishment of on-site common areas exclusive of yards are defined herein. Streets, curbs, sidewalks, sanitary sewers, stormwater sewers, landscape buffers, and lighting. The first element to that is the development concedes approximately 215 square feet of his ground floor footprint to allow for widening in the north sidewalk beyond the city standard with and the city standard will extend 18 inches

onto private property. I thought that was fair, I thought the two points is definitely worth it. Other comments and.

Okay. Second item is space for outdoor dining is provided at the street level and recessed into the building massing so as not to impose on the functional sidewalk

widths. Third item is planters

provided along Forsyth approximately 100 linear feet to soften the building's exposure at existing grade falls significantly across the site.

I'm okay. Anyone else? No problem. Okay, and the fourth

removal of the curb cut on adjacent property slash right of way to the south to improve traffic flow and provide additional street and lot parking requesting one

point. I really felt that the one point you requested is sufficient because you're replacing that curb cut you're taking out with the curb cut for your garage entrance. So there's really no net gain or loss in the pedestrian

issue. Any comment? One or two, frankly. Okay. Should we move on

to sustainable building design?

Yes, sustainable building design and construction. We've provided six elements of our sustainability strategy. The first is efficient heating and cooling systems. And our heating and cooling systems will meet or exceed the LEED silver

criteria. Great. Appropriate building siting.

One point. orientation and location of the structure supports the goals of the city and the lead guidelines.

Can you give us a little more definition of that?

As opposed to the siting?

No, no.

That was a staff comment that I read after that.

Oh, yeah. I'm sorry.

And so yes, I agree.

And the recycled building materials? Yes.

Can you flesh out more on recycled materials?

Yeah, so let's see. The staff comment was a priority of material selections for developers is incorporation of renewable and recycled materials. So there's... Several items, I think, without the project. One of the most substantial one is the fact that it's a concrete structure. So that's a huge impact. And we aim for about 15% fly ash, which is a byproduct of coal in there. And then the rebar inside of the concrete can have sustainable content as well. So let's make sure I'm on the right one here. Yeah, we're used to it. In terms of recycled content of those building materials, those are the things we need for. I believe we elaborated on some of these in the response letter that we had sent on some of the original comments as

well. To me, both of those seemed like they were saying the same thing. The third and the fourth item in the sustainable building design

So in terms of the renewable resources, while all the interior finishes aren't defined, that's really where some of that would come in. So for instance, you know, natural rubber, cork, corn, different items like that, and that are products of a lot of the interior finishes. The design team can basically put priority in specifying finishes that have that content in it. Because obviously there's a lot of products out there that don't necessarily have that, but it's just really looking at the details and confirming that it does.

I had a quick question. So is it for the lead silver? Is that for exterior and interior? It's

the whole bill.

The whole bill. Because I know there's two different categories, correct? Correct.

Yes, the way this is set up, it pulls some of the categories from LEED. However, they don't have to stick to exactly what those categories are. So here they've separated out and I'm talking about the interior and exterior of the structure with renewable or reused materials. And so for points, interior finishes and other elements that if they're agreeing to meet certain sustainability elements of them, they can request points for those.

But just our general lead silver, that is just for exterior, correct? Not interior?

No, it does cover some interiors such as the mechanical functions and other elements that they're mentioning. Those can also go towards the lead silver standard.

The public benefit, which is the main category of this document. is because it's a sustainable building? Correct. Okay, just clarifying.

Okay.

The charging stations, I think we've gone through that.

And then

significant use of natural

light.

Really on that one, it's basically having the floor of ceiling glass in the units and having a lot of high glazing bays in the lower floors where the retailers and such, even in the event space or the pre-function space and all that, allowing light to go deep into the space. It's just going to... encourage the not turning on artificial lights and really obviously there's energy benefits to that. But then in addition to that, really focusing more on circadian rhythms and a more natural kind of state in the use of the building.

Well, of all those

I agree with the staff points in there. They're either one or one of them. Staff was suggesting zero. And they said the benefits for this project is not clear. So any comments on that, Helen?

And that's part of LEED also for interiors is like the exposure of natural light, like the percentage wise and things so that I would agree with you on that point.

One thing to clarify with the lead, as well as there's obviously it covers a wide gamut and in terms of, for instance, this project which would be meet lead silver requirements there's it's a bit of a pick and choose what we would have to do so, while we're saying these. These don't necessarily hundred percent overlap with the points that we're going for within the lead system.

i'm in for the one point.

Good.

With the natural light with all the glass, does that have a negative effect on the energy consumption?

It depends. It depends on the quality of the glass and which side it faces. We actually don't have, while we do have a lot of glass on the south facade where the sun's directly there's a lot of um solid wall actually behind it it's more of a spandrel glass which said which funk uh has much better insult of value and i'm in terms of that so um there's definitely always usually a give and take so that's why while the yes there's potentially more mechanical needs the the offset of the the not in use of lights but then also really just the the bigger benefit and kind of our eyes is the sort of just the natural state and the circadian rhythm of having always visibility of the

sunlight. If you remember back to the plan, the south side of the building has a lot of services on that side, and we have guest rooms facing west and north.

I think the bottom line in this code section is to meet or exceed the LEED silver criteria. You'll have to work that out. Okay. I would go along with the one point for the natural light. Okay, let's talk about the next one. That's number seven. Dedication of land to the city.

Yeah, this is dedication of the forefoot of alleyway to widen

it to 24. The city requires that. We haven't seen

that there would be any points because it is a city requirement.

Can't blame us for asking. It's fair enough.

Okay. Can I just say something on that point? Sure. I mean, the truth is... We're extorting from the property owner four feet for public use is blatantly what we are doing here. Uh, we're taking private property, converting it to public use, paying no compensation for it. So I would think the least we can do is give some kind of point value for that. I see it.

What would you recommend? Um, Three looks good to me. Is that what it is? Oh, no. They gave zero. I would give two or three for it.

The truth is in a push come to shove, the property owner gets nothing for it. It's just we call it an exaction. We just grab the property, take it, and the property owner gets nothing. I've always found a problem with that, to be very honest. The least we could do is recognize what's going on and give something.

I think the property owner is gaining something and that's a little better loading dock access with that four feet. Without that four feet, I think it would be a lot tighter

I agree with what you say, but everybody gets to use the alley. The

people that are using, really the people owning the building and servicing the

building. Today, but tomorrow is going to be different. We don't know what tomorrow brings. You're right, but the exaction will already have occurred. That's all I'm saying. It doesn't have to be a big issue here, but I think there should be some acknowledgement.

Yeah, and we recognize that the requirement does say Above city above city requirements that we just didn't know where this exactly fell into that category, because in written into the code. We didn't see anything that actually does require that we know it was requested. That there's a forfeit extension, so we took it more as a request that we were looking to get public benefits points work, but we understand that I think maybe the question was if it was a hard requirement or not.

Well, as you can see, some of our discussion comes down to being subjective instead of objective. I think we could take that under consideration since we're going to be continuing the public hearing to the next meeting. We'll have a chance to finalize it at that point. But let's go on. Item number nine. We really can't discuss that because we don't have the parking study at this point, as far as points go. So let's hold off on that one. Can

I just ask, I mean, I just will be curious and maybe this is something we can talk about more, but just trying to understand, you know, who will be able to, I guess how you're going to allow the public in and you know really kind of be able to so people who

this will not be a garage that's restricted to hotel users only anyone can go into the entrance and pay the fee Okay.

So it won't be, it's not, you know, so somebody, I mean, people will be paying for it. So if you're visiting a family member at the

jail, it's a gated garage with a, with a, you can swipe your credit card, right. Or you can pay as you pay. So it's a regular public garage.

Okay. And then would you anticipate then people who are using the jazz club? or going to the jazz club so they would also have to park or i mean pay in order to go in and good

but typically when they may validate parking too right jazz club may validate parking

so so that'll just be to be determined i guess

right

okay and then again steve i guess we'll talk more about parking

yeah hopefully we'll have the parking

study before the next meeting Okay, we're up to code section

12 and that's the art selections. Now there again, we generally give it three points until we see what the art will become. So that's in abeyance right now also. I don't know if you'll have the art for the next meeting. We will not. will not

most of the art we've shown is commissioned art and so we'll go through a process of interviewing potential artists having them come up with mock-ups of it and and so that obviously all takes time and we're also several years away from having it installed so

and that also will have to go through the public art advisory committee so okay can't do much about that The next one, number 13, is the open space for public use. And I think you've pretty well described that, that it will be open to the public and they'll be able to filter through the building and go up there.

Correct.

At times when you have a major ballroom activity, would that be closed down to the public? Likely, yes. Well, I felt the five points for that effort is worth it unless there's any other comment.

I think five points is great. I'm also just kind of curious in terms of, I'm assuming, I mean, it's not like I can take my family and have a picnic up there. I'm assuming you won't necessarily allow people to bring outside food in or anything like that. I mean, people can go up who are just walking on the street and want to go up and maybe just sit and chat, but they don't maybe necessarily have to eat or drink anything they could, but eating or drinking anything would have to come from what is being offered up there. So would that be accurate?

So, yes. I mean, we encourage you to buy food and beverage from us. So the I don't think that we would allow food and beverage to be brought in from the outside. I think it's more like a park environment where you would. I think people are going to go up, read a book, take a break. I think that's what's going to happen. And I think it will also be an extension of the bar where people will go up and have cocktails. Right. I mean, I think it's what a lot of it will be. But we would probably discourage picnicking, just bringing in KFC or something. We would probably say no to that. Yeah,

I'm just trying to, you know, I think people, when you start calling it a park, I think that's where, you know, the line gets a little gray. So it's just kind of being able to clarify for the public saying no you can't actually bring your calzone from or your food from barcelona up to the rooftop right you know or up to the seventh floor terrace i think it's just understanding that yeah

and i think we'll probably have some signage up there to that regard kind of saying what the do's and don'ts are so

Any other comment on that public space?

going to do about that?

Hello. So if someone is kind of squatting, is that kind of what we're, it's a homeless person or something, is that?

Yeah, so we're going to give everybody the benefit of the doubt, okay? And so we're going give them an opportunity to visit our outdoor space. I think if we determine over time that that person maybe needs some assistance to find some other help, if they are in need of help, we're going to try to help find them some help, okay? And if they're there... I mean, it does close up at night. Right. I mean, it's not it's not 24 hours. Right. So it will close up at 10 o'clock or something. So I think it's a situation we do. We do want to help people. So, I mean, if they're we're going to probably give them benefit of the doubt until we see that they are maybe affecting others. All right. And then that may dictate the way we call from some for some help to somebody that maybe can help them.

I don't know that somebody coming up every day is a bad thing, right? I mean, we're not going to discourage that. I think it's just how they're impacting others, right? It will be what it will come down to. But if it's just somebody who's who's coming up every day, I don't know. And they were just sitting there quietly minding their own business. I don't know that we care that much, right? It's just how they're going to impact others, right?

We're making one, yeah. Haven't thought about all this yet, okay? So...

Thank you, David, for those comments. We do have some unhoused people at times in the city and they really don't seem to be affecting business or the residents from what I can see. It's just my observation.

Okay. I think

we're all okay with five points on the public space. And then, of course, there's the last one, which is determined by the Board of Aldermen, any other public benefit. So you have requested 10 points. Could you go into that in depth?

The Jazz Club. Right? 10 points.

Is it signed up?

No, but we are making considerable progress in identifying potential operators for the jazz club and those conversations have already started. So I think we have every confidence that we'll be able to find a music venue in that space.

One thing to comment on the substantial or how substantial the the space impact is in terms of a cost is because of the drop of the site along there, really being able to open up a larger space. So the square footage being a, you know, 4,000 plus square foot space and having to deal with the gray change, we really, that space actually then kind of is partially buried underneath and the retail that's coming over the top. That is quite an expense with terms of the engineering right up against the property line there and going underground that adjacent to the property line. So,

You may recall that retail space was 1,800 square feet in our initial conceptual review. And we expanded that to provide an additional feature for the streetscape and nightlife of Clayton.

Underneath the ground for acoustical reasons is for others outside of the building. And the next floor is probably a good

thing.

Not that I don't like jazz. I'm just saying it could get very loud.

Have you

considered that the lobby space seemed to me, and I know we're not looking at the lobby space, it seemed to be very large. And there was one area in the lobby that I thought you may want to convert into a retail outlet sometime in the future.

I

got it.

So it's a 240-something room hotel. So if you think about that, there is times there's going to be a lot of people coming in and out, and we've got to have the capacity. So that lobby isn't necessarily too big if you consider how big the hotel is. And then you've got banquet space on top of it, too. So people still come through the first floor to get to the banquet space. So it can get congested pretty quick. David, will you have other retail space to worry about? Once the jazz club, take out the jazz club. So we've got the jazz club and then we've got a restaurant too on the corner, right? And the seventh floor bar. So all your first floor space

is filled up then. Yes, sir.

And then can I quote you on the point that you say our goal is to contract with a third party entity for lease management of the venue, but if unable to come to terms are prepared to manage the space ourselves.

I said that, yes. You can quote me, right? We've had a lot of conversations, as Steve said. So we're well on our way. It's two years out. So it's not something that we've got, you know,

we're appropriately timed. I, you know, a lot of times people come in and promise things and it just, it's, and I understand it's difficult. I just, you know, it's hard because, you know, We're still waiting for our entertainment venue down the street.

So, I mean, we, we enlarged it from 1800 to 45. I mean, we went underground to try and make this venue big enough. to accommodate this. So that was intentional.

And I will say too, where the board of Alderman isn't going to give you a lot of points for architecture. Like I, the majority of the board is dying for something like this. So I think, you know, I think it's great. I think I'd much rather a larger event space than a 1000 square foot retail space that sells coffee. I mean, that just doesn't make sense.

It's good for our hotel guests too, to have another, another venue down there, right? Another activity that makes the hotel a little bit, a

well as you can see um you had requested 49 points and if you uh add everything up even with the minor things uh it looks like you'll be over the 30 um That's required. So we'll find out because we will continue that to the next time. I did have some other comments based on the criteria for approval that the staff worked on and others may also. Oh, well, we've already talked quite a bit of it was about the revised parking study that will be coming. And then under stormwater drainage. Maybe I don't understand what was written, but the second to last sentence in the second paragraph under stormwater drainage, the applicant has proposed detestation and channel protection is required by MSD.

What does that mean? I was wondering, is

that it George? We're

stocking associates. That's a typo. Detention and channel protection. Channel protection is that one year storm, two and a half inch rainfall attenuation. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you.

No detaching whatsoever. Yeah, that wouldn't stump me. The bicycle racks. I don't remember seeing where they go. Let me go back. Okay. Along

central near the garage entrance. So you remember where I said valet stand? It's just immediately to the south of the valet stand. In the rendering, there's a number of bike racks there.

So the public can use that.

Absolutely.

Great. I think that's... all the other compatibility issues, unless anyone else had any others that they pulled out? No. David, did you have any others? Okay. I think we've gone through everything, or Ana, have we missed anything?

No, I think you covered it.

Okay. Well, that's a mixed comment.

Okay,

sorry.

PB John Gerstle, Can I make one mention sure on on past projects where there was an. PB John Gerstel, Very large time difference between the approval of the consolidation plat and the actual closing on the land, we asked for an extension of the period to record. We would like to do that on this project if that's available to us.

Yes, so we didn't prepare any of the potential ordinance conditions in these staff reports knowing that our recommendation was to continue the 21st, but we do have that condition already outlined in the draft staff report for the next meeting.

Excellent, thank

you.

Any other public comments? No, and there are no hands up.

Okay, that's

quite good. We do have a staff recommendation in all the reports to continue to the August 21st meeting. But first, I believe I have to close the hearing just to continue the hearing. Okay, we won't close it. Let's vote on continuing the hearing. Do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to continue the hearing

second. All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay. Well, thank you very much. We'll see you again in two weeks and

we'll get this moving. Okay. Okay. Bob? Bob? Here, Tim. Okay, I wanted to comment on the letter. That's what I thought.

Yeah, no, I just wanted to comment on it. I thought the points were very clear and all answered, so should have said it before,

but

sorry. You

scared him a

little bit. No.

We'll read it again before the next meeting.

Okay. Are you able to switch over to it? Thank you. Yeah.

Not that I don't think you're interested. So you guys, you know where I'm going in a couple days? Down to Bentonville. Aren't you, Z? Have you gone down there yet?

Friends rave about it. Crystal

All my friends rave about it

and the

hotel that's down there.

While Tim is doing it, Kami, any comments? No comment. Helen? No comment. Bob? No comments. Bridget, Carolyn, David. I mean, we covered everything? Ryan? No comments.

Anna? Nope. I hope to see everybody tomorrow for the comp plan discussion session. You can attend that virtually as well. So that will be a nice presentation. And then Wednesday, our consultants will have a pop-up table at the Party in the Park event as well to try and interact with people there.

How was the open house last

week? Decent attendance. I think that we can strive for more at future events. So we were there for, it was from 4 to 7 p.m. By the time 6.30 rolled around, Bob was there towards the end of it. And we had about one person who showed up after 6.30. Wait,

I thought there was standing room only

there. We had great, we had pretty good attendance. It really, I mean, we had some people show up right at four and it ramped up. And so I think that, I feel like the peak was at five. So that also tells you, I haven't looked at it yet. Our consultant took some kind of like demographic information of the people that showed up, but the age of the people that shows up to this event did skew towards the later in life, no families of children age group, which is great, but it does let us know that we need to make sure we're targeting all of the demographics within our community for events going forward so we um the survey that was first presented during that open house meeting is available online on our website we send an email blast out to all of the different neighborhood and condo trustees and hoa associations that we have contacts for asking them to share the link to go to the survey so um just keep on sharing that with people because we really need everybody's voice to make this a successful plan

okay thank you stephanie

okay

well then we're adjourned and we'll see you all tomorrow night in two weeks from now thank you

anyway so we're going down there