January 3, 2023 — Meeting Transcript

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Planned Commission ARB meeting for January 3rd, 2023. Anyone attending virtually, if you want to speak, raise your hand and you'll be let in. In the council chambers, if you have electronic gadgets, if you would put it on silent, we would appreciate it. With that, Ryan will start.

Steve Lichtenfeld. Here. Carolyn Gatiss.

Here.

Bridget McAndrew.

Bob Denlow. Here. Helen DiFate.

Bob Denlo. Here. Helen DeFate.

Kimmy Waldman.

David Gipson. Here.

David Gibson. Here.

We have minutes from the previous meeting on December 19th of 2022. Are there any changes or recommendations? No. Well, then do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve the minutes.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay, thank you. The first item on our agenda is the public hearing for Chapter 405 of the Land Use Code and Chapter 500 of the Property Maintenance Code. And we will open the public hearing.

Brian? So this request is to consider amending sections of Chapter 405, the Land Use Code and Chapter 500.040 of the Property Maintenance Code to standardize the language used pertaining to the use of accessory dwelling units as recommended by the Community Equity Commission. so an adu is a type of accessory structure either attached or detached which provides complete independent living facilities including provisions for living sleeping eating cooking and sanitation and is located on the same site as the principal residence so the code currently uses a variety of terms like second unit carriage house granny flat for this definition applied to adus the proposed revisions seek to standardize this language through the industry standard term accessory billing unit. The revision is not going to propose any sort of definitional changes from what is used now or use changes. All it's going to do is standardize that vocabulary that varies across the code. A draft of the revisions and a list of code sections has been provided with the staff report, and staff is recommending approval of the proposed zoning text amendment to various sections of chapter 405 of the land use code, chapter 500.040 of the property maintenance code to the Board of Aldermen.

Okay, thank you. It looked

great to me. I had one question and that is under Article 12 R1 large lot single family and it's also under R2 single family. The C that is there on the far right, that's for conditional use, isn't it? Okay. Is it not spelled out anywhere?

TAB, Well, in that actual SEC our article that section of the code it tells you what the C and the P mean.

TAB, So we

only include right so if you go and you actually look at the full permitted uses list outlined in the code, it tells you that see is conditional use permit and a P would be a permitted.

Any other questions, comments?

No.

That easy? Any comments from the virtual audience? No hands up. Any comments here in the chambers? No. Well, we do have a recommendation to approve. And do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve with the staff recommendation.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. And now the public hearing is closed. We'll move on to new business. And the first item is 6307 Y down. And is the applicant here?

Thank you. And we'll go ahead.

So this application pertains to the consolidation of two lots and used by Forsyth school. The subject properties are located on the north side of Whiteown Boulevard with frontage on both Whiteown and Forsyth. The properties currently reside on the St. Louis city and city of Clayton border. The property within the city of Clayton, 6307 Whiteown is a 30 foot wide lot that is zoned R1 large lot single family. Existing law boundary bifurcates an existing structure, garden and parking lot in use by Forsyth School. The law address 6307 Y down Boulevard is currently plotted as currently plotted is not viable for improvements due to the requirements set forth by the R1 district. And so a list of review criteria has been included in the staff report. for the board's consideration. Staff is of the opinion that the proposed lot consolidation is consistent with lots located in the immediate area with regards to size frontage and arrangement. And staff recommends that this board recommend approval to the Board of Aldermen on the condition that the applicant files a plat with St. Louis County Recorder of Deeds Office and submit proof of the filing within 30 days of Board of Alderman approval.

Okay, would the applicant like to come up? If you could give us your name and address and any comments.

Okay, thank you. Hi, my name is Joseph Howley. My address is 853 Wilner Drive in University City next door. And I'm here in place of Paul Boyer, who was actual applicant on record, but we're the same company. We're both civil engineers. So basically what we're doing is pretty simple. We have two lots that are owned currently by the school. And we would like to consolidate those lots into one lot. That would allow us more flexibility on the site for future improvements, et cetera. But basically no additional land is being acquired by the school. It's all land that is currently owned by the school. Two lots of it request for consolidation of those. We have a draft plat. I don't know if that's something that's been submitted. Okay, you have that, you see that over there, so. Um, pretty simple kind of a land, uh, consolidation, uh, project.

Okay.

Um, it looked pretty good to me. I do remember when you have purchased various of these three lots,

right? Right.

And I think we,

we consolidated the ones that were along the residential, uh, which is on the west side of the property. was two lots at one time. And we consolidated that into one. This is going to add to that and make it kind of an L-shaped area. Yes.

So it's really lot five that's being added. Correct. The one furthest east. Yes, yes. Any comments?

Out of curiosity, it seems I read it that it's going to be part of City of St. Louis, the entire property.

Well, no. This property will straddle the municipal boundary as it does now. There's still going to be a little piece that's in Clayton. In fact, it's the lesser part, 30 feet of it, which is currently in Clayton. And the rest of it will remain in the city of St. Louis. So the same amount of area is going to stay in each municipality. It's

not going to be changed with that. Okay. I just... Okay, I read it wrong. Okay, thank you.

Do you have plans to do any big changes to the property or?

Nothing big, nothing big, but there is a plan to replace a shed that's there right now. And that was kind of when we noticed that it was on the lot line. So, you know, really the original one was there, but it's something you'd rather not have as certainly a structure on a lot line.

This question isn't necessarily for you, sir. But Anna, in the future, if for some reason Forsyth would choose to leave these properties, would this lot consolidation be unique to their use? And would it revert back to single lot in the event that or is it?

No, no, it would remain as a consolidated lot to the same. We have a few of these around borders. There's some on Kingsbury that kind of cross lots across property between University City and the City of Clayton. So basically our enforcement powers would still be the same under that same strip that's within the city of Clayton moving forward no matter who the owner is. So this doesn't change the zoning, it doesn't change any of the property that's within our boundary that we would enforce uses or setbacks or other things on.

Any other comments? Carolyn, any comment? Nope. Pretty straightforward. I

don't see any hands up, correct?

I would just add that we did talk to the neighbors. Mr. William Piper, who has a property adjoining this, he'd gotten a notice that we were doing this, so he called. And Paul talked to him and explained that there's really nothing is changing in the relationship between the properties. There's an existing agreement that limits what the school can do Actually, that was set up with a deed on the property between Forsyth and the adjacent properties to the west there.

Any other comments from the audience?

No? Okay.

Well, we do have a recommendation to recommend approval to the Board of Aldermen. Are you aware of staff recommendation, the condition rather? Yes. Do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve to the Board of aldermen with the staff recommended number one.

Second. All in favor?

Aye. Okay,

thank you very

much. Thank you.

Okay, we can move on to the next three items, which are 75-25, 31 and 33 Forsyth. We'll talk about them together, but we will vote separately on each one. So we'll start Fire.

Yeah, so the staff report that I'll summarize is applicable to items two through four on this agenda, which are requests for residential conditional use permits at properties 75257531 and 7533 Forsyth Boulevard. The properties are located on the northwest corner of the intersection of Forsyth and Lee. Now the properties are zone C2 and located in the Forsyth transit oriented development area. The buildings, all constructed in a similar manner, serve a combination of office and commercial uses. The upper two floors of the three-story buildings previously housed apartments, but they were legal non-conforming uses. These spaces were then leased as office spaces, resulting in the loss of legal residential use. However, they've retained their residential components like kitchens and bathrooms. The property owner would like to convert the upper floors of these buildings back to original residential use. Review criteria have been provided in the staff report related to that conditional use. Staff does not anticipate adverse impacts pertaining to noise, smell, traffic, or lighting. The existing parking is below as required per unit, but staff is of the opinion that the parking will be sufficient due to an abundance of nearby garages and street parking and the requirement for onsite bike storage at the end, as well as the nearby metro stop. Staff is of the opinion that the proposed residential use meets requirements contained in the regulations governing conditional uses. The proposed use is compatible with surrounding uses and there are no changes to exteriors or structures. The proposed parking, in combination with street parking, provides sufficient parking to meet demand. Staff does not believe that this use will be disruptive to surrounding properties. It is of the opinion the proposed project meets the criteria for a conditional permit. So staff recommends approval of the conditional use permit or staff recommends approval of conditional use permit to recommend to the Board of Aldermen with following condition that the applicant shall provide one bicycle rack per property or designate bicycle parking area and submit the location of staff review prior to approval of a residential occupancy permit.

Thank you, good evening.

Um, everything's fine. 7525 just so we're all clear is connected with 7527. So and it's considered one property now.

Yeah, it's the same. Okay.

And then 7531 is just a house. It's always been a house. It is already a residential area. I don't know why I put it down. But you should have it as residential. Is it is that what the city of Clayton has it is?

So it's still going to be zoned as that CT general commercial whenever we were originally going through that application. Just wanted to have that on there for you.

But the same person's living in it. When we bought the place, he was living in it and we didn't kick him out. So he's living there.

Ms. Salibi, isn't there a 29 also?

Yeah, 29 was already here for us. But Ryan was kind enough to let me do all the other ones all at one time so I don't come up here every couple months when we convert them back.

Okay.

Yeah, so we already got approval for 29. Now we're just doing, in fact, 7525 and 7527 have always been apartments at the top. They've never changed. And we have family living in part of them. And so we're just changing the middle ones on 25 and 27. The bottom is going to be still commercial. And then 75, 29, we already came for the two top ones. And now 75, 33, we're only going to do the top one right now. But in the future, in case we need another one, we will. But we already have a commercial one in the middle.

so then if we the plan commission and the board of aldermen approve the conditional use permit you will be able to have residential on all the upper floors of all

um yeah but we're not going to do there's two upper floors and we're only going to do well and two of them have always been there's It's kind of hard. It's three levels, okay? The bottom level is usually commercial, and it's going to probably remain commercial. Then the upper two levels have gone back on some of the buildings have went to commercial, but now they're going to go back to residential. And some have always been residentials. So, and then this is the first time we've ever had to do this in years, because we didn't even know about these conditional permit uses. And probably because COVID changed the whole scenario of Clayton with people not wanting to do retail and offices, and we've got square footage all over the available for retail and offices so that's when we decided to make ours. residential and then we found out that we had to come up here to do that. So that's in essence what we're doing.

Then in

approving the conditional use permit, does it say that it's only for the second and third floor or does it matter?

So the way that these are established, the mixed-use developments are allowed with a conditional use permit. That's the way that you get residential within this zoning district and this overlay. So that's what we're establishing is that all these properties can be mixed-use. The property that currently has a resident that's always had the resident, that one's still covered under the existing legal non-conforming status that Ryan mentioned that used to cover the other properties. But because those other units were then converted to commercial, they lost that protection as the legal non-conforming. So basically what we're going to do is establish a conditional use permit for each of these buildings and properties that creates the mixed use component. So that first floor of the retail that was just referenced, that will remain commercial. That's part of the condition that allows this mixed use development. But what the conditional use permit will give is some flexibility as it relates to those upper floors. So you don't have to convert all of the units to residential at this time, but what we've outlined in the review of the conditional use permit is understanding what the impacts might be should all of those convert to residential.

And if I understand what you're saying, the first floors are going to remain commercial? Yes.

Correct.

Okay. And we're going to change a non-conforming use to a conditional use permit. to allow

them. Right, so previously when those were residential, when the code was updated to, so these properties were zoned commercial or at whatever point they became non-conforming residential units, they were allowed to remain just like the resident who has remained in that one unit without requiring a conditional use permit. But then once they were converted to office, in order to go back to residential, we need the conditional use permits that it conforms with all of the current regulations.

Thank you. Other comments? No. Carolyn? No. David?

I see no hands up again. Any other comments from the audience? No. Well, it sounds like it was very complex, but let's take three votes and make it very simple. Do we have a motion for 75-25? And I guess that's 27 also.

I'm just trying to confirm it to what the, we already file as our taxes.

Okay. Do we have emotion on 75-25 and 27?

Yep, I'll make a motion to recommend approval of the conditional use permits to the Board of Aldermen with the staff recommendation condition for 75-25 and 75-27. Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Let's

move on to 75-31.

I'll make a motion to approve 7531 Forsyth Boulevard with the staff recommendation as listed.

Second. All in favor? Aye.

Okay.

Let's move on to 7533.

I'll make a question to approve 7533 Forsyth Boulevard to recommend the approval of the conditional use permits to the Board of Aldermen with the staff recommendation listed.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, it

passes. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. We'll move

on to item five, which is 421 Edgewood Drive. We'll start with Ryan.

So the subject property is located on the west side of Edgewood Drive between Oakley Drive and Shirley Drive. The property is zoned R2 single family. It is developed with a two-story single family home. The project consists of X3 improvements that include painting the home, new windows, new front door, and new gutters. The existing structure is constructed from red brick with white accent siding. The existing windows are white with no shutters. The applicant is proposing to paint the residence in off-white gray and dark gray colors. The paint is described as being flat Italian mineral paint designed for masonry. The main house will be painted the white color while the garage and back porch will be painted the darker gray color. The front door will be painted a darker yellow, kind of goldish color, and the windows are proposed to be aluminum clad wood. The proposal is unique to the surrounding area and that is a more contemporary paint scheme while surrounding properties tend to incorporate more traditional styles. However, these colors that have been chosen are common on other dual tone homes in the area and the applicant has provided letters of support from the adjacent property owners. Staff is of the opinion that the proposed exterior alterations are compatible with the surrounding area and recommend approving as submitted.

Okay, thank you, the applicant.

Hi, I'm Nate Spray and yeah, owner at 421 Edgewood. So yeah, so we're excited about making some different improvements there. We've been working on the inside of the house through COVID and it's sort of one of those houses that I think of all the houses in Clayton sat on the market for a very long time. and had a lot of water damage and other sorts of things. So we've been kind of like focusing on getting that cleaned up and with the exterior of the house, yeah, the approach has been to try to find something that will give the house a little bit more unique character but still be complimentary with everything else that's around. The kind of dual tone paint scheme is really to try to kind of isolate the house portion compared to the garage portion a little bit and give that a little bit more focus. They have kind of different roof lines and things like that, which is not uncommon but just thought that would be an interesting approach so that's kind of the overview yeah.

Okay. Well, this is ARB review. It's not planned commission. I do like the colors. When I went by the house, I tried picturing the garage in the darker color. The entire garage, the east, north, and west would be the dark gray. Is that correct? Yes. As well as the porch in the back. Yes. I like that. I think it'll make the garage... receive from the front of the house itself and I think it'll look good. What about the windows? Are you replacing only the windows on the front of the House or all the way around? All the way around, yeah. And they are aluminum clad what color

so they're Marvin. aluminum clad there'll be the House will be white to match the paint color we're we're hoping to start with like Marvin stock colors that they have and see how those work with a paint color if they don't. David Price- blend as well as we'd like will probably paint them. David Price- A matching color, but the idea is for it to be the House to be white with kind of white windows and then the garage to be that darker Gray, with darker windows on it.

Okay. Sounds fine. Let's go around. Bridget,

any comment?

No, I'm sure it will look great. I walk and bike by your street all the time right down that street, so I look forward to seeing how the improvements go. Good luck.

Bob?

Yes. The two tones is kind of a bold stroke. I got to think about it. But it's your home. And my question really is, on the outside, it looks like a very much a plain Jane house. And in part because there's no treatment around the door at all. If you look close, they used to be and they had been removed. Do you have any? Are you going to do anything about that?

Yeah, I mean the hope is to basically rebuild not in the exact same style but it's kind of shown in that illustration, but just a really simple surround that will have a little bit of dimension to it. It's not detailed in there but kind of embracing that the simplicity of the house and kind of the I mean, I don't know my wife and I are both big fans of like shaker style architecture and things like that. And so We had been to this shaker village and forgot where that's at in Kentucky. And like everything on the property is just kind of tone on tone and it's just really pretty. And so kind of just keeping it simple and letting the form be very simple. And that was kind of the idea with the door surround instead of trying to rebuild a more robust colonial style surround.

Okay, well, good luck to you. Ellen.

Okay.

that.

Amy.

I think it's a definite bold statement, I was interested when my question was the design intent behind it so i'm glad that you kind of explained that it makes it a little bit I understand it a little bit more because at first I didn't quite get what you were going for. i'm concerned it is going to be really dark and I keep saying Gray, and like your your rendering shows like a really kind of soft Gray, but then the actual paint sample so. It'll be interesting to see, I think. I love the door color. I think that'll be a really nice accent. Yeah, I'm interested to see how it turns out. Yeah. Nice.

Well, it's going to be yellow.

Yeah. Is the paint going to be solid or is it going to look a little distressed? Like, will you still see a little bit of the brick, the former brick through it?

The intention is for it to be solid, but to be completely flat. It's a like Italian mineral paint. We researched a lot of different paint styles and we didn't want it to have like that kind of painted coating to it. So I think it, I will hope it feels like masonry, but very, very flat and not distressed.

Okay. That was the only question I had.

David?

Looks good.

I don't have any

questions. Thanks.

Well, before we vote, I really like the rendering that the architect did, and I agree with Helen. The Missouri license should be on the drawings. Okay. And compliment him on the drawing.

I will do that. Can I just ask you one thing? How did you arrive at a yellow door? I mean, I've seen red doors kind of stand out. I don't know if I've ever seen a yellow one.

Well, this architect is a friend of mine who's from St. Louis and kind of has studied classical architecture and lives in Florida and works at a firm, is a partner at a firm now. And they do this kind of classical architecture. And she's been basically a collaborator of my wife and I as we've renovated a bunch of different houses over the years. And she comes to St. Louis and we've had ideas around and talk about stuff. And so she's been here about three times and like looked at the house. We had coffee and we sat around and talked about different things and She drew a lot of different ideas we talked through things and that particular color door we had. curtains on the inside that kind of had that marigold color and. The interior like porch ceiling inside is painted dark and she just felt like those colors are working really well together so thought it would be. I don't know, kind of interesting, a little bit different. But the house is kind of a plain Jane to a degree. And I think we want to honor that but find a way to give it a little oomph to it at the same time. But if we don't like it, we also are going to not leave it like those colors do. So we want to live in the house for a long time.

Any comments online?

Like no? Any comment in the audience here? No. Well, we do have a staff recommendation to approve as submitted. Do we have a

motion? I'll make a motion to approve as submitted, the caveat that the architect will put their Missouri license on the drawings. Is

there a second? Second. All in favor? Aye. Thank you very much. We'll be watching for its

completion. Thank you.

Okay, our next item is 8154

Kingsbury. Okay, the applicant is here. So Ryan, we

can start. So the subject property is located on the south side of Kingsbury adjacent to the streets intersection with North Forsyth. The property is zoned R2 and is located in the Clayton Gardens Urban Design District. The property is developed with a two-story single family home and attached garage. The project consists of a new addition located at the rear of the home and includes a basement, kitchen, family room, primary bedroom, and new deck. The new addition will match the home's existing materials, will not result in any height increases and complies with setback and coverage requirements. Re-additions are common in the surrounding area and vary in height and materials. Staff is of the opinion that the proposal is compatible with the surrounding area. Existing property are two requirements and Clayton Gardens Urban Design District requirements. Staff recommends approval with the condition that a property survey shall be provided to verify setbacks and previous coverage as part of a submission for building permits.

Hey, thank you. Good evening. I'm Keaton Jones with Keaton's Construction. And this is, I guess this is the second time come in uh i'm a different contractor different architect so we're just uh trying to uh do a room addition that kind of blends in with the house instead of a maybe a more commercial like the original was so we just felt like that this would uh blend in with the house a little bit better and uh have a hip roof instead of a flat roof, like you indicated for us. So we just wanna do

what the owners want.

I thought it looked very straightforward and fits in with the neighborhood. It really does not jut very far south. When I went over, I thought it would be visible from North Forsyth, but really it does not come far enough to really be seen. I had no problem with it. I assumed the brick color will match,

the

windows will

match. Just like the existing windows. and we'll be painting the brick to match the existing brick that's painted.

OK. I had no further

questions on that. Bridget, comment?

I do not have any further comments. Thank you.

Bob? Nothing.

Helen?

Amy?

No

comment.

Carolyn?

No comment.

David? Nothing. There's no one in the audience. And there is a hand up. Elizabeth?

Oh, I'm just listening in. I have no comments. Thank you.

Oh, okay. Well, we see your seal on the drawings also.

It's straightforward. I think everything is self-explanatory. But thank you for attending. Okay, we do have a recommendation with one condition. And are you familiar with that? And do you agree? It's a property survey shall be provided to verify the setbacks and impervious coverage as part of the submission for a building permit. Yes. Do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve with the staff recommendation.

Second. All in favor?

Aye.

Okay,

when will you start? We've got to submit for the permits so soon as we do that. Okay,

well good luck. Thank you. Okay, we have come to item seven under new business and that would be 140 North Brentwood And I believe Mr. Coburn is online. And we'll start with the staff report.

So the subject property is located at the southeast corner of the intersection of North Brentwood Boulevard and Westmoreland. The property is zoned R4 and is currently undeveloped. The subject property owner also owns the property to the south, 136 North Brentwood Boulevards. And the subject property is currently being used by that property owner as additional yard space for the 136 North Brentwood. The property owner is seeking to install a fence that falls within street frontage. The fence is proposed to be black aluminum, would measure four and a half feet in height. The fence as proposed would align with the front of the home on Brentwood and then falls within the setback frontage of Westmoreland. Dual frontage is common along Brentwood and a variety of fencing and screening can be found to handle that situation. The immediate area also includes a variety of uses such as single family, multifamily, commercial and office space. Other fences within dual frontage are commonly comprised of stone and brick materials. Open spaces and deep setbacks are not common in this area. The proposed fencing is not adjacent to any curb cuts that would to obscure any sight lines. The proposed style and location of the fence allows for a landscape buffer along the sidewalk and is compatible with materials featured on the site and in the surrounding area. The fence as proposed is unlikely to have any adverse visual impact on nearby properties, pedestrians or vehicles. It's the staff's opinion that the use of a fence is appropriate Due to the commonality and variety of fencing and screening, the commonality of dual frontage and the use of recommended materials and the minimal visual impact. And staff recommends approving as submitted.

Okay, thank you. I see we have a few people. Mr. Coburn, your hand is up. Would you like to give any further comments? And I see the owner is also online if she would like to.

No. Hi, guys. Everything's good. Sounds like you're going to approve it, which would be great. We greatly appreciate it.

Well, we haven't gotten that far yet. Okay. I guess I'm getting a little ahead of myself.

I do have a question about the height. Yes. In the Section 405.1900, it says... The fence could be up to four feet above the grade level. But I believe what you're proposing is a 54-inch high fence.

Yes. Yeah, the reason Melanie prefers the 54-inch tall is she possibly might install a pool in the future. And she definitely wants the fence to meet pool code compliance. So with that said, whenever you have that style of fence with two rails at the top, one rail approximately six inches below the top rail, the fence needs to be 54 inches in height to meet pool code.

I guess

we have the right to make that change.

TAB, Right the historically this board has approved taller than four feet within front yards when it conforms to the criteria. TAB, Otherwise, within the neighborhood so as Ryan mentioned in this immediate area, there are examples of fences within those secondary front yards that are taller than four feet, so the style the setback from the sidewalk etc staff still recommends approval in this scenario. TAB,

Thank you. That was the only question I had, Bridget.

I would say just especially given the location of where this area is, I don't have any problems with it.

Bob? No problems with it. Ellen?

Amy? We

Carolyn?

comments as well.

And David? No questions or comments. Well, here again, it's pretty straightforward and we do have a recommendation to approve as submitted.

I'll make a recommendation to approve a submitted.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay. There we go. Thanks for tuning in. Yeah. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

Thank you.

You're welcome Okay, now we've come to the backside of the agenda. Comprehensive plan discussion. Anna

or Ryan, who's taking that right now? Okay, so

we just following up on the previous discussion session we're kind of outline some components of comprehensive planning. After some discussions and staff, we wanted to go through a little bit more of a thought to approaching the steering committee for the comprehensive plan and walk you through what we're looking at and get some feedback. So I'm going to kind of go through what we see the steering committee's role and how we see that structure playing out and then that relationship with you all as the planning commission. So really, the role of the steering committee can kind of be broken down into two main components, one being that they are representing the community interests and stakeholders, and that's a variety of interests and stakeholders, An opportunity for you to relay information back that you see fit to these various groups to encourage participation from the Community. and the various groups that you might represent as a steering committee member. And then also providing some attendance to these public engagement events really from that angle is kind of shepherding people to get them to show up, to let them know about the events and then also to provide feedback and gain feedback. And then the other side is really as a guide for the staff and the consultant team as we work through the components of the comprehensive plan. So attending the steering committee meetings, being an active participant is an important part of the steering committee's role. And then really being a sounding board. So as engagement events happen, as the consultant team and staff kind of look over the results or what we see and take away from that. being the sounding board of, yeah, I think you got that consensus right or not. And then as components of the plan are put together in a draft format, then the steering committee is really providing feedback on those elements of the draft before it is presented ultimately to the plan commission. So what are we looking for when we think about steering committee members? So this is the same graphic that was shown when we talked about the comprehensive plan and really thinking about the different components of community and of a comprehensive plan. So a really big part is just the commitment to attending and being an active participant, that's huge piece about the steering committee. And then also just really a passion for the direction of the community and a variety of representation. So when we think about those different elements of what the community is, We want to make sure that different elements are reflected within the steering committee members. That could be when we think about residents, we might think about owners or renters, business owners, employees of businesses, property owners of commercial property, professionals that live or work within the area that have training or expertise in these areas of a comprehensive plan. our institutions that are represented here. So those are different people or groups that we want to kind of have some say within the steering committee as we touch on these really important different topics. Glad you asked. That's the next slide. So then thinking about what we were looking for in the steering committee, we're proposing nine members. That's a good number. So we can still get a breadth of representation, but it's not too many to control in terms of actually having functional meetings of steering committees and getting some consensus and feedback. So we think a good breakdown would be three members that represent the planning commission as ultimately this is a you serve a big role when it comes to adopting the comprehensive plan and kind of shepherding that process. So three representatives that way, and then pulling three representatives from other established committees. So we have sustainability, community equity commission and the school district, which are important stakeholders, and then three at large community representatives. So the structure that we're proposing is that each existing commission or entity would select representatives. So you all as a plan commission would determine who the three from this board and commission would be representing sustainability will select who their representative is, same with school district, et cetera. And then for at-large community representatives, because this really is a commitment and we want people that are willing and excited to be part of the process, we'll use an application process. So if you're interested in being a participant and being an at-large representative on the steering committee, you can kind of submit your name and then we'll have a selection panel that will look at who that selection is and then make sure that we're actively making the decisions to get a variety of representation as best we can understanding this commitment. So going into the plan commission role, because again, you're important. So three of you will serve as members of this steering committee throughout this process. The other three members will serve on the interview panel to kind of, again, have different elements of people involved in different process. And the three that serve on the interview panels, so you'll select the consultants, you'll be part of that panel, which is also going to have staff representation. You'll be the three that will just select the at-large community representatives as well. So that way, when we get the interest from the community who's interested, those kind of applications, resumes, so to speak, will go to the three members from the plan commission that are serving for this interview panel, so to speak. The staff will not be involved in that part. So that would just be the three representatives of the plan commission to select that large members. Through this process, the city manager acts really as a staff representative. So that's why it kind of breaks down three of you in one and three in another. So David will be involved kind of alongside the rest of the staff members as we provide feedback and oversight throughout the process with the consultant team. And then everybody comes back together as the plan commission as a whole when we actually look at presenting a plan for adoption. And then just briefly, how that fits in with the process. So proposals are due on February 1st. Ideas that will at that same time open up the process to start receiving interest from that large community members, which will align then in the February of reviewing the interview panel and setting up interviews same time that those people will then be selected from that interest party so that in march we can have the steering committee resolved select the consultants and start that plan in april

just to be clear those members of the plan commission that aren't on the steering committee you're still going to be very involved in that process so i don't want anybody to feel like if i'm not on the steering committee i'm not going to have a lot of input until the end of this you'll be involved the whole way, just probably not at the same level as somebody that's actually on that student.

So the

application, will you be sending that out or is it up to the individual to request it?

So we're not going to target anybody to send that application to. We're going to use the same kind of template of the application that we have right now for anybody who's interested in serving on a board or a commission for the city. We'll just make some slight modifications to that. It'll be advertised online. We'll send it out through some of the same portals. You're going to start seeing like on the city views, on our Clayton Connection updates, other aspects of what marketing already does to get out into the community. We'll have little blurbs about how you can participate in the comprehensive plan. And part of that will be encouraging people to submit to be part of the steering committee. But I would also say that you all, just like David said, as shepherds of this overall plan can also kind of reach out to people and encourage them to look at that process. But really the goal is to try and get a good representative panel for our steering committee. So hopefully we'll be able to do that through this process and starting now.

Okay. What about

the sustainability, community equity commissions and school district? Anything with them? How will it be advertised to them?

Right, so we'll contact those entities because they'll select their own representative. So we'll invite them to go through that process of determining who the representative is and then providing that to us for the process.

And then the three at-large community representatives, they could be residents, business people, governmental people, not quite, but county,

Right, so we're not restricting the at-large community representatives to be any particular group. Like, we really want that range, so it could be that they're a resident, it could be that a business owner that lives here. We really, we're gonna see that range. The big part of it is that it's somebody who's really invested in the future of the city of Clayton. So that's something that will need to be made clear when they submit their interest to be serving on that steering committee.

Well, having only three at large community reps, will that give us a broad enough picture?

Well, hopefully yes, because also between that and then the representatives from the other established committees who, as part of being a member of sustainability or community equity or plan commission your residents so and we're getting some of that, and we're going to also rely on you all to continue to put the word out to get engagement. back as a large one. But when you talk about steering committees, if you go over nine members, it can be difficult to have meaningful guided conversations and feedback. So we really wanted to, we felt that nine was a good balance on a large enough number that hopefully get a good representation of interests, but also small enough that we can have it be a meaningful guiding committee.

I assume the steering committee will publicly? Yes. If so, can non-members come and speak or ask questions?

So the exact management of the meetings itself will be something that we'll work through. People can come and definitely listen, there'll be open hosted meetings, they aren't going to be behind closed doors. But as far as participation within during those meetings, that will be something that will have to discuss, because there are going to be a lot of channels for public participation. So that we the the meetings and the goal of the steering committee meetings are different from the general engagement session. So There will definitely be opportunities for people to listen in on steering committees and then maybe provide feedback to what they've heard in another channel. But I don't know that we'll host it as just an open meeting for public comment, because that's really going to be geared as the target of other engagement sessions that will be had.

Okay. What will your answer?

We're targeting to have that set on the website and other platforms by February 1st, which is the deadline for proposals to be submitted by the consultant teams. By February 1st, it'll be available and we'll have the whole month of February for people to submit.

And those are just for the three spots? Right, okay.

So on the first slide on I think it had you know the members of the Commission who are on the steering committee kind of some identifiable kind of things that you would like us to do, and I appreciate the idea of. You know, getting the word out so but what do you mean by that like I mean I talked to a lot of people. I mean is there expectation that we would like you know get an email list together just so there's some clear just so we're clear on like. I mean, you know, getting the word out or communicating back. I mean, so like, what are, what, how do you envision that?

I think it's great. You know, it's going to be different for every individual and what organizations represent. There's going to be plenty of marketing, so to speak, coming out of this, the consultant and staff sides on the city platform. So it might be as simple as just like, seeing your neighbor and reminding them this process is happening and to check the website or if an event's happening on Saturday, telling people to go to it when you see it. So those types of things are gonna be really important, especially if there are people that come to you and say, I don't feel like my voice is heard at the city. I mean, this is a great time to say, well, now here's an opportunity for you to come forward and participate in a process. So it really, we're not relying on like a number of emails that you have to send or you have to tweet it out. It's going to be a little bit different, but we do want to make sure that you're taking those opportunities to piggyback on the efforts of marketing that are coming out of city hall to double up on who it's being reached.

Other questions or comments?

And then are we going to, in terms of who's selected to do what from the plan commission, is that a decision that we're making as a group or is that a decision you're making?

You all will make that decision as a plan commission. So thinking through how you want to participate, what commitment level you want to have, again, as plan commission members, you're an important part of the whole process. But if you're on the steering committee, there's going to be regular meetings throughout this process that you'll attend in addition to your plan commission duties. um whereas if you're on the interview panel it's you know a bigger commitment right up front and then you're participating as planned commission members kind of throughout engagement strategies but not through those regular steering committee commitments and then at the end when the plan is being put together as a draft proposed to you then again you'll be really involved

and then i just have one more question then well do you think Do you envision that the people will be chosen from the different committees before we pick the at-large representatives?

We hadn't discussed the timing of

that. So we get a diverse group. You know, I don't like if so, if all the people that come out of the different committees are older women or, you know what I mean? And then, so understanding that we want a diverse cross section of the community, it just might be helpful so that we know before we start picking their community representatives, who the people are from them. I think

we could probably put this on a sustainability agenda later this month. So they meet the last week of the month and then, The Equity Commission would be the second week in February. So we would have that information for you before.

And then would we probably contact the president of the school board and just say, you guys got to figure out

whether somebody from the school board or somebody from staff will let them determine who that is.

Is the school board already aware that this is coming up?

I know we've made mention of it multiple times. Last time I had Last time I got together with the superintendent was probably a month and a half ago, but I did let her know that this process was coming, that they would have a role. I don't know that I made it clear that it would be to this extent because we hadn't had those conversations yet, but I will notify her and let her know and get them to start thinking about it a little bit. I

have a breakfast at the end of January.

There we go.

Bring it up again. I

think I'll be at that one as well. So

be sure to drive the point home. Is everybody comfortable with that nine member format?

With that particular setup? We're batting around a lot of different combinations. So we're just trying to get a good sampling here.

Yeah, my only concern and I already voiced it was the number of at large community representatives. have 15,000 representatives here. Three out of that, even if you take all of us out of it. Really low percentage that we would be

including. And again, that's just inclusion on the steering committee. As far as the public outreach, there's going to be a ton of opportunities and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see maybe a subcommittee or two pop up to look at certain topics and that would be populated by additional residents so this is just making sure that you have some residents that have an equal voice to people that are representing city board boards and commissions and other groups and that's that was kind of the three three and three that we've come up with

would you want to target like a 10th person who would be identified as like a business owner like i don't know like making sure that we have like a voice who is uh not necessarily a resident but somebody who's a I don't know i'm just throwing it out there, I share steve's concern i'm a little

yeah I

think the cross section, because you mentioned in terms of getting the broad representation having somebody who is like. or have it be like somebody who works for county government I don't know making sure we get somebody who's not.

Right I

don't know

yeah we won't limit the. interest forms for steering committee representatives to be only residents, but we might have to do a direct outreach for that if you aren't seeing a response rate. But right now, this early in process, hopefully we won't have to do that because sometimes when you target specific people, then you're already not creating an inclusive process, right? Because you're already deciding who those people are. So we're going to try the... general approach and see what comes of it. But I would agree if we get only three at large representative applications, so to speak, and they represent the exact same group, then we might have to think about that strategy. Hopefully we'll have time to do that though with the timeline that we have laid out.

We can send it out to the economic development. Yeah, like the economic development and see if you get anybody from there that's like a reasonable person. You know what I mean? I mean, there's probably certain people in town that you're not sure you'd want in a steering committee, but you know, I mean, yeah, that would be like Gary Carter. Right. Yeah. Or through Alan Gale or something.

Yeah, we'll send it out. We'll cast a wide net.

Chamber's also aware that this is coming, so they're going to help us advertise.

Any other comments? Were there anyone left online listening in? It was me. Can you hit escape? We'll stop it. I guess

we're ready to go to the next step. Will your presentation be on the website?

Yes, so we've updated. There's a comprehensive planning page on our website that currently has the existing downtown master plan and some of our old comprehensive plans. I added the previous presentation to that same page on the website. So we'll add this one. And that's also, you know, we'll also add some more information when we kind of put the live interest form for steering committee members.

Well, it seems to be moving on step by step, which is nice. Not getting ahead of ourselves yet. We'll see how it goes. Thank you for the simple direct

information you're giving us. Anything else? Well,

then we'll move beyond the discussion session. Kami, any further comment?

Helen?

Wow. Bridget? Carolyn? Nothing further. Happy New Year. Same to you.

David? We just mentioned that the information we were just talking about, the comprehensive plan presentations, those will be before the Board of Aldermen on January 1st. or we'll get a rundown of what the process looks like.

Brian?

Nothing else? Ana?

No, just a few reminders. On Thursday, if you hadn't seen it already, there's the community conference for the PUD that's proposed at the corner of Pershing and Merrimack that came before you for conceptual review. couple of months ago. So their community conference is on Thursday. We do have a, another conceptual review for another planning and development that is happening at the next plan commission meeting. So that's kind of an interesting one. You might've seen the news was quick to cover that a hotel conversion into Munn. So that would be the first boutique hotel down there for us. So that is a conceptual review level plan. And then we also kind of have a few of the text amendments that we've discussed public hearings for those are upcoming at the next meeting as well.

Good. So it's picking up

again. Yes. And the Sterling Towers, they refer to it now at 50 South Bemiston. that is in staff review currently for that PUD. So we expect that one will come through the zoning process next month, probably for public hearings to start.

Thanks for the update. And I think we're finished. So we'll see you on the 17th. Okay, that's the date. Okay, thanks everyone. We'll see you then. Meeting adjourned.