November 7, 2022 — Meeting Transcript

Good evening, everyone. And welcome to the Planning Commission ARB for November 7th. Anyone listening or anyone here, please silence your phones if you're in the council chambers. If you want to speak, please raise your hand and we'll let you in. So with that, let's start with the roll call. Ryan. Steve Lichtenfeld.

Here. Carolyn Gatiss.

Here.

Bob Denlow. Belinda Fate.

Bob Denlo. Belinda Fate.

Here.

Kami Walden.

Here.

David Gipson. Here. Ira Berkowitz.

David Gibson. Here. Ira Berkowitz.

Okay, we have minutes from the previous meeting on October 17th. Are there any changes?

No.

Okay, do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. Second.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, thank you. Okay, we'll get started on our extensive agenda tonight. Let's start with new business number one, 7401 Clayton Road. Brian.

So this property is located at the Northwest corner of the intersection of Clayton and Audubon. It is zoned R2 and developed with a single family home. The site's location on a corner results in frontage requirements on both its South and East setbacks. The project consists of replacing an existing section of fence that falls within the East setback. This section to be replaced as a 17 foot section that runs from the Northeast corner of the home to Audubon. New fence will feature or it will be the same height as the existing fence, will be made of metal rather than the existing wood. This use of black metal is similar to that of an existing railing above the home's garage on a terrace. There are no proposed changes to the existing landscaping or fencing that runs parallel to Audubon. Double frontage is common along Audubon with intersections roughly every two lots on the west side. Properties take a variety of approaches with a combination of wood or metal fencing, landscaping, or no screening at all. A minority of properties have a combination of materials similar to those proposed in this project. Staff is of the opinion that the proposed fence conforms to the architectural guidelines in the surrounding area and recommends approving as submitted.

Okay, thank you. The applicant, come on up Fred.

Good evening. My name is Fred Powers. I'm an occupant resident with my wife at 7401 Clayton Road. So I'm here to answer any questions that you might have or any comments.

Well, actually it's pretty clear cut to me. I would say it'll be a big improvement for your yard and for the neighborhood. So I really don't have anything else, but let's go around. Carolyn.

I didn't have anything either. It looks great.

Helen.

Looks good.

Amy.

A definite improvement. Thank you.

Bob. Sedition. David. Nothing to add. Okay, well, we do have a staff recommendation to approve as submitted. Do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve as submitted, all in favor? Second.

All in favor? Aye. Okay, you're on the way. Thank you. When will we see it?

That's a good question. I will call them tomorrow and we will get on their schedule. I hope before the end of the year. Good luck. Thank

you.

Okay, we'll move on to item 27732 West Biltmore.

So this property is located on a short block of West Biltmore that's just northwest of the intersection of Clayton and Hanley. It's zoned R2 and developed with a single family home. This project consists of expanding the existing driveway and expanding rear parking pad and adding a retaining wall. The new concrete pour will match the existing sidewalks similar to other properties. Their retaining wall will be a rock wood vintage six, which has a variety of earth tone colors, contains rolled edges and blocks of various sizes, which conforms to the architectural guidelines for new retaining walls. The proposal will result in a total lot coverage of 46.5%, which falls below the 55% limit. Staff is of the opinion that the proposal is compatible with both the architectural guidelines and the surrounding area and recommends approval as submitted.

Okay. Is the applicant here? No. Jane Sharp for 7732 West Biltmore? No.

Is anyone attending virtually for 7732 West Biltmore? No. Let's

Can we just hold it till the end? Hold off on that. And

let's move to item 3, 8027 Forsyth Boulevard. And the applicant is here. So let's start on that.

So this proposal is for a science sub-district at the foresight point development, just Northeast of the intersection of Forsyth and Brentwood. All signage proposed falls along or below the building's brow. And this brow is an architectural distinction between the ground floors and the parking garage above. The plan provides specific placement and materials and dimensions. Dimensions provided are for a maximum allowed. Other design elements may vary based on the sign category or tenant needs. The table of different sign categories has been provided in the staff report, which was provided to the board prior to the meeting and is available on the city's pending applications page. Many of the signs categories conform to the existing requirements. So for the purpose of this meeting, I'll just summarize three sign types that do not meet existing requirements or have not provided enough information. So the office tenant IDs are proposed at four locations along the brow and are available to office tenants within the towers. The proposed maximum square footage is 50 square feet, which exceeds the city's maximum of 25 allowed for multi-tenant offices. Although this exceeds the maximum, staff is of the opinion that it remains proportional based on the dimensions of the tower, architectural elements and facade coverage of 5% maximum as well as nearby structures. Retail tenant blade signs are available to ground floor retail tenants with street entrances. And these will be positioned on the outer pillars that form the building's arcade. The signs are proposed to total four square feet, which exceeds the maximum of one square foot for blade signs. Staff is of the opinion that the four square foot maximum is proportional based on their positioning higher up on the pillars and along the highly trafficked Forsyth Boulevard. Pedestrians and vehicles may also be more reliant on the blade signs due to the shielding of the wall signs, which are maybe shielded by the arcade of the building. The building's address numbers are proposed to be mounted on columns on the south elevation with halo illumination. Renderings and materials were provided. However, specific dimensions were not. Staff is of the opinion that the applicant should provide the dimensions for the address numbering prior to codifying the sign plan. To conclude, staff is of the opinion that the proposed signage is compatible with the surrounding character in terms of size, materials and design. The proposal creates consistency in placement and materials across various sign types. Staff recommends approval on the condition that the applicant update the sign plan to include their intended dimensions for the address numbering.

Okay, thank you. Would the applicant like to speak and lead us through it?

Welcome back. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Sorry about

that. All right. Again, Scott Haley with US Capital Development. And I appreciate being here and always glad to come. And this time, last time we were here, we were on some of the architectural elements here. We're looking at our master signage plan. Ryan did a good job of kind of outlining some of those components with me tonight on the Zoom. Allie Stevens is one of our project managers and she's intimately knowledgeable about this. Steve with ASI, he's been very, very instrumental in helping us navigate what we think is an owner, a tenant, and what the, you know, the city's regulations are on this and trying to meld those to have a win-win-win for everybody involved. And I think we've done a good job there. And I'm not sure if he's on, but Denny Holzer with Commerce Bank, he's their project leader for commerce. And And so anyway, that's our team tonight. I think I could briefly go through. I think we distributed some packets and I think they read pretty well, but if you'd like for me to kind of walk through them, I'm happy to do so. We would like

that.

Sure. Ryan, could you help go through some of those images or do you not have that there?

So yeah,

they're perfect. So if we kind of click down, I mean the overall, maybe you go back just if you can just to, you know, I think the, You know, with the building, you know, it's a large building and we've tried to, I want to say maximize the signage. We try to do it in a way that maximizes the benefit to both the traveling public, the occupants of the building and be respectful of the architecture. So I think we'll kind of reference those as we go, but obviously the corner provides a lot of scenarios. On the elevations on the next one, Maybe a little hard to see, but I'm sure most of you have looked at it or read it before. But the office ID tenant... sign location is obviously we're respectful of not asking for anything above that eyebrow area, just because of what the protocol has been throughout the city about not having roofline type signage for major occupants. However, we position those in a way that it does maximize visibility for those folks, both on the Eastern or Commerce Tower and onto the west tower, which is the foresight point of USCD Tower. Throughout there, we tried to, with the arcade as a unique aspect, and you can see in the center ones, we're looking at identifying some retail opportunity signage that one can be lit underneath the arcade. as well as incorporating the blade signs that are up and down the Foresight Point Boulevard. There's a couple on Brentwood, and then we'll see there'll be one on the Merrimack side. We found that the blade side is trying to be seeing that TAB, Mark McIntyre:" identified here in clayton elsewhere on the i'm going to see the salon saline salon apartment building I think they've done a great job to be able to respectfully identify. TAB, Mark MCIntyre:" signage and identification for people walking down the sidewalk I think they've been a good job there. we're taking that same idea, not putting it under the arcade, but actually putting it on the columns at the face of the property line there to give people actually on the sidewalk, not on the arcade, to see and add some interest to it as well. So I think that that's a unique aspect to it as well, We also have, we do have some garage ID signage that identifies the only entrance it's on the public right away and that's on the foresight side. The remaining two entrances are located on the east-west alley on the north side of the project. Feel free to stop me at any time if you go to the next elevation.

Scott, before you go further, where we have the retail tenant IDs, it shows three of them which are recessed behind the arcade.

Yes.

Couldn't there be more?

There could be more. That's a great question because that bay is designed to be, it's laid out about 8,300 square feet. Right now we're working towards, you know, trying to not subdivide it into two or three or four, which it could be. But we've identified the signage, which we thought would be appropriate for that location, regardless if it's three bays or one bay, you know, so yeah. So yes, I mean, it's a large area, but we've identified what we think the signage would want to be there.

Well, I like it, but I also see spaces either side of those three that have no signage, but they could. Is that true?

Yeah, it could be. I mean, I think there's a branding opportunity there, but... At this point, we weren't requesting that. We've gone back and forth. I mean, I don't think, I think a lot of it's going to be dependent on who that actual user will be and how they want to sign or identify their location. So are you thinking that we, since it's a master plan, we should be able to identify additional on the flanking portions?

I would think if there are any potentials for it, you should have it as a potential in

there.

You don't have to use every

location. Certainly. I think that we would love that opportunity if the board would want to consider that. Because right now, nobody really knows what that is right now, but I think it's a great suggestion.

And then another question above the... centered on the west tower we have the re a retail tenant sign on the eyebrow on the brow so that's the only retail tenant sign that is not recessed behind the arcade is that correct

that is correct um the rationale with with that location is that um there is no real location for that signage for that. I mean, between the door and that, it's very narrow and really problematic to try to place a sign, let's say above those double doors there. And so identifying as a potential, that would be the most appropriate location that would be there as we're showing it there.

it makes it equal in importance to the office tenant ID, which is just to the west?

It's on the same line. The office identification or the office tenant would be larger in size than what that would be allowed or what we're suggesting.

Roughly up to 100% larger. Correct.

And again, looking at that, I think that not having the opportunity like we do elsewhere along Merrimack or on Brentwood or the other location just makes it more difficult to try to appropriately brand that spot for someone.

Well, I agree. I don't see any other appropriate spot for that retail tenant sign.

Okay.

It seems like it would be nicer to have that brow a little cleaner.

Understood. And believe me, we've gone back and forth for several months trying to figure out what the most appropriate way and actually... We believe you know let's put it this way, if we can if once we have an identified user we finalize something here that signage may be reduced or. done something in terms of more about a vinyl or you know some type of signage on the glass rather than that, but at this point I think from this, I think that we've done the best we can for that specific location.

Well let's let's see you get the retail filled

yeah

and. then I don't think I'd worry about

it. I'm with you there. Did you have any more questions on this page?

I didn't, unless anyone else did.

Yes, I do. Looking at that same sheet, the South Elevation, on the east side, you have the office tenant ID, and then just to the left of that, you have vinyl retail tenant ID. So why doesn't that retail tenant get the same as the retail tenant at the other end, the sign on the eyebrow?

That glass is in, if you, the difference is between the two. The glass that is above the western one where we were just talking about, that's the glass, it's etched, it's got a design to it. It's different than the glass, if you go there now, that glass is full height. And so rather than putting a sign on the eyebrow, there's an opportunity which we don't have over here to be able to have like a vinyl sticker or I would say it's sticker, that sounds cheap. But something like what Tony's did or something like that that mimics something that I think is different than putting the sign on the eyebrow. That opportunity is different than what we have to the

west.

Anyone else?

A quick question about the retail sign. If the retailer that's in there has like a logo or is that going to change, or is this still going to be the aluminum letters on the eyebrow they're going to do their like colors or their logo or anything else.

I think it could be a combination of that, I think, as long as we're meeting the square footage, I think. There are some limitations on it based on the depth of the eyebrow or the depth of the area underneath the arcade. So it could be a logo, it could be the font of that retailer or company or restaurant. So that's why we really have no identification of what that is other than the square footage.

Okay, so like the aluminum channel letter that you've listed on the... chart like the retail tenant id that's just

if it was a logo too yeah if it was a lot of two it would be fabricated the same way so again scott was saying we're very limited in height so whatever we do is going to have to be more horizontal in nature so it's more likely going to be more typography than logos unless somebody has a logo that you know Okay,

it would be a little bit more colorful and a little bit different across like that facade than kind of what you're showing. Yes.

Thank you.

I've been to several retail developments where the, the, the typeface was the same, even though it was a brand name just to keep the building looking nice and clean. Have you considered that and not, not even had, I mean, do we have to worry about like, say, you know, sorry, Twitter, but Twitter is coming in and the little birdie has to go up there. You know what I mean? I mean, I mean, as long as it's tasteful. I mean, we don't want like Chick-fil-A red going up, right? Or.

Chick-fil-a blue or something. No, but now I hear what you're saying. Well, you know what I'm saying? I mean, people

will know that what it is, it's not.

But we do have on the East tower, we do have commerce bank. They have their own, you know, typology for their signage and their, you know, so, and then the other major, you know, on one corner and the other. You're

going to change the fonts is what you're saying?

They we would probably they I know that Congress would be using their their font for that hush blackwell has their very signature font that they use. I mean so trying to maintain a picking one font for any of the three or four signs, I think, would take away from it and not you know give the some expression if we're only limited to the eyebrow so.

When we see to office tenant ID signs at the corners with that be one office tenant ID on both sides or. to office tenants?

It'll be, well, yes. It could be one. It could be two separate ones for each tower. Each tower would be limited to a maximum of two signs on those eyebrows.

So these are really in lieu of a ground-mounted pedestal sign that we see elsewhere.

Correct. What you're seeing, and we'll get to that here, but let's say, you know, commerce has two different tenants, two different signs. We anticipate two different tenants, different signs in the West Tower. We have on in this location looked at as an alternative here for mounting our tenant sign, what you would normally see on one of the side walls down there. And you'll see that further back in here.

Yeah, I had seen that. But you said that would be an alternative.

Right, we do have, and I'll let maybe Steve speak to that as well. But let me go back on this.

So...

Do we want to jump right?

Let's

look. All right. Oh, I know. Go to number two.

Yes. All

right. So you're looking at the, that is the west elevation that we're looking at. We have signage that is on the eyebrow for the retail which steps down from the office on that side. We also show the public parking ID if you're coming into the public parking off the alley, that's the identifier that the city uses. And we also identify an alternative RETAIL ID SIGN THAT WOULD BE IN THE GLASS, SIMILAR TO THE GLASS AREA THAT WAS REFERENCED ON THE EAST TOWER. IN TERMS OF WE SHOW A LOCATION, SEE WHAT PAGE IS THAT ON?

YOU MEAN THE MONUMENT SIGN?

YEAH, YES.

PAGE NINE? YEAH, PAGE SECOND TO THE LAST.

We're looking at, you want to maybe show, talk about this. I mean, we're wanting to do this as a way that can be mounted to the sidewall potentially as a way to identify the tenants equally throughout if it's, If we have multi-tentative floors, we'll have three or four others there. And that way allows for us to be able to control the signage and keep that area cleaner than maybe having something else potentially.

Now this one you were thinking about standardizing the typewriter.

Yes.

So again, these were just going to be individual light boxes. Can

you just come over to the microphone

so that it picks up the recording? These were going to be individual light boxes with illuminated text at night. We would come up with a standard typography that would just work for all the, again, the four major building tenants that would be in the building and also just have the building name there. So pretty simple on that one wall.

So could one of those tenants, say tenant A, be the same as the office tenant ID on the eyebrow?

That is exactly the intent.

I mean,

we're

talking.

It's, it's, it's pretty it's really meant for pedestrian use. So, again, the ones on the eyebrow are meant for the vehicular use and then these are really meant for people somebody be underneath that little walkway.

Yeah. Yeah,

so, yeah, you wouldn't see the eyebrows if you're kind of walking underneath the plaza there so.

Do you think that each of the two towers might be called by their major tenant name? Commerce Tower on the east, Hush Tower on the west, because they are so prominent on the brow at the corner on two sides?

I mean, even though Hush is in that building and they're taking most of the space, it's still the Commerce Tower to everybody that we talk to, including the owners. But I think people do identify as the Bank of America building or this tower or that tower. It's usually by one of the lead tenant on that. And on the primary side, that's usually going to be the foresight.

Hey, Ryan. Can you hear me?

Yeah, we can hear

you. I just wanted to make a clarification that Hush Blackwell is also in the same tower that Commerce Bank is in. So Hush's signage will be on the same tower that commerce's signage is. We have not identified a major tenant on the West Tower yet.

And that was Allie with USCD.

So then does that mean that the two office tenant signs that are on both sides of the corner, one would be hush and one would be commerce potentially? Yes. I misunderstood before. We don't know who's in the West Tower yet.

We haven't made that decision yet. Yeah.

I feel better now with the multiple office tenant IDs and the potential of it being repeated on one of the wall signs.

Well, I mean, and I hate using other people's work or examples, but there's other monument signs that are 12 feet tall and they only got four little, you know, four inch vinyl letters. We got a lot of stuff going on, you know, with our art piece and all that, you know, we were trying to minimize. And even if we did something, it'd be shorter anyway, rather than just having some big, you know, monolithic piece of stainless steel or something like that, so.

Okay, sorry to break in. No worries. Continue.

I think, you know, in terms of, I think we've touched upon all the type of signs on here that were referenced in the plan and in the memo. And reading the staff recommendation, we do agree with having the appropriate increase in square footage, I think compliments what we're trying to achieve here and is not egregious or offensive. So we agree with how this was outlined and in the report and how Ryan referenced it this evening. Is there any other? Oh, I guess the address numbering. If you look on here on page, oh, there you go. Perfect. This is an exhibit that in the evening, that's a night illustration that will allow both addresses at each corner only on the foresight side to be illuminated. And then during the day they'll just be a regular numeric sign. Let's just give some reference to people who are, I wanna say walking, the people who are coming into Clayton to know where they're at. We were suggesting that each letter would be about 19 and a half inches, maybe may go a little smaller, but we're requesting 19 and a half for that for each number there. And then we may scale that down to be a little bit to 17 or 16 inches once we do another round of dry mock on the column itself. But those three or four inches difference in what we ultimately go in, we won't exceed the 19 and a half inches, what we're showing here tonight. That's

correct. You say the color is to be determined. It looks dark. And could you refresh us on what color the column covers

are? The columns, they are gray. They match the gray. I forget the actual architectural material there. But all those columns along the arcade are being wrapped. And it's a gray color. In terms of the letters, the numbers. We

have that.

So in the day, we'll read the number directly. At night, we'll read it. We'll read the number with the reflected light behind

it. Yeah. Okay.

Ryan, if you go back one slide, I think it shows more of a daytime. There it is.

We haven't touched on the blade signs yet.

Oh, the blade sign. That's, you know, the blade signs. I think we all everybody in the team loves them, and I think everybody retailers and everybody that we've been showing the space really finds it one an added benefit but also kind of. In a way to appropriately let people know who are on the street, the bigger signs are going to be for. people driving by, but people walking down the street will be able to identify that. If we have multiple entrances from the sidewalk into the arcade and they're gonna relate to the appropriate location or entrance to those establishments. We show maybe more than what we're gonna do but I think that that's because we don't know exactly where they're going to go, similar to your comment about the number of signs on that larger Bay area. So we find them attractive and we think that they're going to be internally lit you know, with similar to, you know, where there'd be a glow there. Like I think the ones on Salon have saline, sorry. Anyway, I think that they've been well received by everybody on the project team and anybody who's been onsite looking at each of those bays.

They're very large. Two feet by two feet. The ones over at Ceylon are quite a bit smaller, but the building mass is also smaller. My only concern about the size of them is that they may even overpower some of the other signage on the

building.

Scott, if I may make a comment to that?

Yeah, Ellie, please do.

So like you said, the building mass is much larger. These signs will be up higher, we'll mount them considerably higher above the street than what the Ceylon development has. So I think with the size that we have coupled with the height that they will be at, I don't believe The two by two will be that drastic of a notice, especially with the sheer amount that the project development is and the height that is under the arcade. You'll be able to see it very clearly, but it won't be too much of an eyesore for walkers or even people driving down the street that I think it will make a big difference.

Ellie, the picture we're looking at, option one. Yes. Do you see that?

I do.

Um, is that tenant name sign? Is that 24 by 24 inches?

That is. Did you say yes? It should be.

Well, it should be or, or yes. And I

will refer to Steve on that one.

Well, if that's a six inch riser on a stair.

When I see that option one, I think

it looks fine.

Yeah, I mean, this is 17 inches by seven. I mean, I hear what you're saying. I think the vastness between our building and the ones across the street is more, it's wider than some of the north-south streets. like the other blades, I'm not even sure. They can't be that much smaller than what we're suggesting, but ours are higher just because one, just like theirs, they're over the city sidewalk and so are ours. And I think it gives some visualization, especially as that street goes down to be able to see it at a different angle. different vantage point as you're walking or driving down.

Those four stairs are 24 inches if you look at it in elevation. So that is perceived as smaller. I mean, it's drawn smaller than 24 inches right now. I'm not sure that makes a difference in my mind necessarily. It depends on how it's designed. I mean, could the sign actually be the gray and not be white like that?

I don't think it's white. I mean, I don't think we're making it white at

all.

If when you go down. But each one of those tenants, I mean, I think central. Thank you. Yes, exactly. I think each one, and I'm not trying to sell the idea, but each one has their logo or, you know, it's just really kind of a, hate to use the word cute concept, but it really does, I think really adds something to it. And I envision us, we stole that from that to incorporate into here. So I think the 24 by 24 is appropriate. So that's where we're at today.

I think I'm okay with it, although as Carolyn was pointing out, it may be a little small on that option one. But I did have another question and that's about the circular P sign for parking. And am I reading it correctly that it would be parallel to both North Brentwood and Emiston, not be able to be seen as you're driving up or down either of those streets because it's really in the alley.

That is correct.

Seems like the wrong location. It seems like when a car is going north on North Brentwood in their crossing Forsyth. They would want to see where the entrance of the garage is, which would mean that there should be a blue P sign sticking out like a- On

Brentwood, on the Brentwood elevation. Brentwood,

yeah. And the same on Pema Stone. And I don't see one on Forsyth where the big entrance is.

Well, there's a couple components to that. One, the public spaces that is required as part of the project are accessed off the alley. So you entrance that public parking lot area from the alley.

But how do you way find them there? I guess that's the question.

Yeah. Well, I'm not disputing the question about if they needed to be on the Brentwood side. Steve or Allie, did we really bet that? I mean, I think we were just identifying the moniker for the entrance for that garage. Yeah. For most of the people coming in, the public parking though is off the alley. So

I think it'll be very hard for people to find the public parking entrance because you virtually have to be driving by before you will see the P in the alley.

You don't turn your head? I know what you're saying. No, you know, having it there would be a moniker for somebody to say, all right, I got to make a right into the alley or make a left in the alley, depending on what street you're on.

But you may be beyond it by the time. By the time if you don't

have it there, you're right. So maybe that's something we can identify and talk about how we do that.

You need to look at it. And as Carolyn said, it's really a wayfinding. Sure.

And that's definitely the right term.

Once people know, it'll be fine. Sure. It's a matter of, you know.

Yeah. And I think that is more for the people who are going to utilize the public parking that aren't going there every day or three times a day. Yeah, so.

Make sure.

Yeah.

So then the way the garage works, if you were to enter on Forsyth, can you access the public parking?

You have to go through the garage to the alley.

Oh, and then come back in at that western.

Correct. So coming in the public, putting that on the Brentwood or Merrimack side makes sense to do, and we'll figure out a way on the wayfinding to do that, and we can work with staff to do such.

Well, then I understand why you don't want to put it on Forsyth because they'd have to go all through the building out to the alley. And once they get there, they don't know to go left or right.

Well, I think one of the... early on in the project, not to get on the parking end of it, but I really see the alley that those two entrances being the primary entrance and exit for especially exits leaving the facility because you can make a right or left onto those, I want to say the side streets, not foresight. And I do think as we talked about when we went through this is that having those two entrances to unload or bring in, I think will be very key. And we, you know, the alleys wider as part of the requirement of the project to do such. Now, people are going to certainly use the foresight entrance, but I think, you know, we're all creatures of habit and we realize the quickest way for me to go east, west, north, south, up or down is you're going to figure it out within the first week of being in that building. So, and it gives us multiple opportunities. And I think it's really the, you know, trying to figure out the best way to get the public parkers to know where they need to go. And we'll look at that. Okay. What else? I'll take any more questions. I think we're...

I had a question about the also can have RGB LED for color changing options on this page five, but I think it's towards the end. There you go. That was just a photo.

Please come up to the microphone so you're

recorded.

He's loud enough.

It was just an image that was dropped onto the page. I mean, those letters are the numbers will illuminate white in the evening. So this photo here was... strictly put in to demonstrate the address numbers. Okay, so the one on the left was really what's how that's going to be made. So it'll be a dark again, charcoal finish with that halo white in the evening.

So you're not proposing?

No, that's no, no, no.

I'm not sure I would hate that. But I'm just saying, I was just asking to for clarification. I know I'm tacky. What can I say?

We have anyone else in the virtual that has anything more to say? Bob? Bob's

shaking his head no, but. No.

Anyone else here? Carolyn? John Gerstle, Ellen camey David. John Gerstle , Okay, well, we do we've. John GerstLE, left you with a few things to think about. John GerstLe, And we do have a recommendation to update the plan to include dimensions for the address number.

John Gerstlee, I was suggesting we make it 19 and a half inches and we will not exceed that. I think that that's what we're referencing is 19 and a half per number.

Is that what is shown to scale roughly? I believe that that's.

Yes, that is

correct. So 19 and a half. That would be about six and a half feet high. Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

And we may choose to go smaller. We talk about everything multiple times and two or three inches may make a big difference, but we won't exceed the 19 and a half. So that's why we suggest keeping a 19 and a half is only going to go smaller if we want. Again, we wanted for ourselves, we think dry mocking it. And if it's 16 inches, it's 16 or whatever.

Just to clarify, is that 19 and a half per individual number? Yes.

Well, there again, those two numerical signs, they're part of the wayfinding for that. Sure,

absolutely. And we've gone back and forth. You know, do we put it on the above the front doors that are recessed there? And we found that doing this is much, much better. And I think it looks for how the building's designed and everything. It just it adds to it. So thank you.

Also, I'd like to thank you for in your renderings giving us a feeling of the context that it sits in. We do see that there are buildings around it,

which is good. We

don't always see that.

Well, I think that goes to the point that we, I don't want to say debated, but we discussed when we were first approving this project was, I mean, we were showing the eyebrows and how they, from the adjoining blocks, if you remember, and how they related to each other. And I think as a carry on from that conversation a few years ago.

Well, I think we have made all of our comments. And you have all the staff comments. Yes. We have that one recommendation. I guess you've already answered. So what we have to do is have a motion.

I want to ask a question. Should we, as part of the motion, declare it not to exceed 19 and 1⁄2 per individual letter for the address signage?

Yes. Excellent.

And then also revisit the parking signage to make wayfinding? Is that for

something to come back here, or is that something we can work with staff? With staff. Yeah, perfect. All

right, so I'll make- You don't

want to come

back?

Aw. I

always want to come back. Good answer.

All right, I'll make a motion to approve the amendment to the staff recommendation that the applicant shall update the plans to include dimensions for the individual letter. I'm sorry, numbers of the address signage not to exceed 19 and 1 half inches per individual letter. Number, sorry. And number two, that the applicant will revisit the parking signage to make wayfinding simpler and clearer for public parking. Second.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

Okay.

All right. Thank you so much. Have a good evening.

Thanks for coming.

Thank you, everyone.

Yes, we'll go back to item number 27732 West Biltmore. Jane, I believe you're it. But let's start with the staff report.

You want the summary one more time?

All right.

Are you wanting the summary one more times? Yes. So this property is located on a short block of West Biltmore, just Northwest of the intersection of Clayton and Hanley. The property is zoned R2 and developed with a single family home. The project consists of expanding the existing driveway, expanding the rear parking pad and adding a retaining wall. The new concrete board will match the existing sidewalks similar to other properties. The retaining wall will be a Rockwood vintage six, which has a variety of earth tone colors, contains rolled edges, blocks of various sizes and conforms to the architectural guidelines. The proposal will result in a total lot coverage of 46.5%, which falls below the 55% limit. The staff is of the opinion that the proposal is compatible with both the architecture guidelines and the surrounding area and recommends approval as submitted.

Okay, thank you. Jane, do you have any further comments?

Jane, do you hear us?

If you're connecting through your phone as well, you may have to unmute there.

There is a question and answer.

Brian, could you answer that? Now her hand is up. Jane, can you hear us now?

You should have the ability to speak already. I do see there's a phone number on there that was there before. If you are connecting through your phone as well, you'll have to unmute there. It shows that is muted.

What is the hand up saying?

She wants to talk.

Oh, there's two on there now. Q&A. This is it.

Ryan, are you saying that that phone number ending in 3036 could be

hers? It was on there before, whereas Jane was the name Jane was not. There's another Q&A. All

right.

Well, Jane, I don't know if you can hear us at all, but we'll go ahead based on the staff report. And let's see if we have any comments that you might be able to type in and answer. Carolyn?

I really didn't have any comments. I like what you're doing. And you're following all the rules and regulations. So I have no comments.

Ellen.

No comments.

Amy.

No comments.

Bob. No problem with the staff recommendation.

David. No comments. I went over there and looked at the property. I also have no comment. I think it'll be a big improvement and make it much more usable, especially with the wider driveway. and the block retaining wall. So I'm OK with it. Jane, if you have anything to say, type it in and we can see it.

Can we type that back to her, what we just said? Can't hear us.

It appears that she can hear us.

Oh, OK.

Well, then we will assume that there's nothing more to say. we will go with a motion. Oh, thanks for your response.

Okay, good. All right, I'll make a motion to approve the staff recommendation.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay, Jane, good luck with the project. Okay, I think we have one more item left. And that is the schedule for next year. Are there any comments that we should be aware of?

No, I just wanted to share that with you. The only dates that are switched are due to holidays.

It seems pretty simple this year. Any comments on it?

I only had one for the July 3rd. I can guarantee you I will not be making that. July 4th is the next day and I will be on Nantucket probably for a weekend and a day, whatever.

Yeah, I think that will be one that we'll probably revisit when it comes to the summer unless the group right now wants us to make a different decision. Nah, it's

fine. Okay. Do we have to approve this? I think that's a good practice.

Okay, I'll make a motion to approve our architecture review board schedule for next year.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay, thank you. And any further comments,

Amy?

No comment.

Ellen?

Nothing further.

Thank you. No comment.

Thanks for joining us. Hope you're doing okay. David? Nothing tonight. Okay, we will stand adjourned.

yeah there's um i will send a follow-up email to all of you on the december board of alderman meeting the 13th is that right um there will be an energy benchmarking um discussion that the mayor and the board of alderman have set up and they're inviting you all to um attend that so we'll follow up with more information for you okay We do. The boards and commissions is Friday.

December 18th. That's correct.

Okay. Any words of wisdom from the staff tonight?

No, we will have a little bit of a larger agenda at the next meeting. So hopefully we'll get you guys those packets early so you can read through it all.

Well, we will see you all then. Thank you very much.

To adjourn. Oh,

yes.

I'll make a motion to adjourn. Second.

All in favor? Aye.