May 2, 2022 — Meeting Transcript

Chairman Steve Lichtenfeld.

City Manager David Gipson.

City Manager David Gibson.

Carolyn Gatiss. Here. Robert Dunlow, Helen DiFate. Here. Kami Waldman. Here. Ira Berkowitz.

Carolyn Gatiss. Here. Robert Dunlow, Helen DeFate. Here. Kami Waldman. Here. Ira Berkowitz.

a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve the minutes.

Opposed?

Good evening, Anissa Camaro, Principal Planner with the City of Clayton. This is for 8007 Clayton Road. The project was tabled to a future meeting at the April 18, 2022 meeting. At that meeting, the ARB raised concerns regarding the color scheme, the addition of the parapet increasing the perceived height of the building, and the flatness of the facade. To address these concerns, the applicant has made several revisions to their proposal. Based on the comments received, the applicant has provided two renditions of the facade, particularly with regard to the shape of the front facade's roofline. Staff's assessment is based on the proposed front facade, but the alternative facade has been included in the packets should the ARB wish to review it. Changes include the removal of the black band at the top of the facade, black windows and a curved canopy. Staff has evaluated the revisions and believes the changes meet the intent of the ARB's feedback. Staff's recommendation is to approve as submitted. And that concludes my presentation.

yes i'm David lorenz on the architect of record. David Larson,M.D.: : i've been working with the nisa and my client justin Taylor to hash out a design that we think will work for everybody.

Well, I think the thing that Justin didn't really convey very well when he was here last time was the a priority of this particular project. He's already moved into the building and occupied it with his real estate agency. it's to solve a parking problem. He has a lower level garage that you see in the renderings on the left-hand side and anything bigger than a Ford Escape doesn't fit in the garage right now because of the way that existing front porch with those large columns protrudes from the front of the building plus or minus six feet. The angles work out to the detriment of access. So that's really where the onus for removing the existing treatment came from, was how can we get more cars off the street and in the garage? And it was, well, how can we get rid of the porch?

Well,

we get rid of columns, we get rid the Greek temple look And we then, yeah, he's got several people with large SUVs as employees that could now be parking in the garage instead of on the surface somewhere nearby. That point, and then he also has lots of deferred maintenance related to that overhanging porch where he's got water infiltration issues and stuff too. And again, instead of trying to figure out a gazillion ways to fix it, We feel it's better to just remove the problem and come up with a new, more modern look. So there you go.

Yeah, that's the alternate rendering that's in your package. Do you have the one with the peaked? I didn't have time to get it printed and modded. So you've got the one in your package with the peaked roof. and the curved canopy over the door? Correct.

Which is also in your package.

it.

Yes, totally different style than what we're asking. That's

I will say this. I think you guys really listened from the last meeting and you made a substantial improvement. But I think... Steve has maybe addressed the one remaining Achilles heel for me. That is, there's no break in the facade at all. It's just flat. Warehouses are flat. And this is the commercial building.

That's the desired aesthetic of my owner. I mean, Justin wants a more modern looking unadorned building. That's what he asked me to design. We thought it was in context with the neighborhood based on the building directly to the west, as opposed to the building to the east with the blue vinyl siding. Yeah, we thought we were, you know, working within the language that was already in that block.

I'm not saying... you've got to redo the entire facade of the building. But maybe the lines above and below the second floor window would come out or something to give it just a little more visual interest than just a flat look. That's just my opinion. But at the same time, I do give you credit. I do personally prefer your peaked roof I think your curved canopy is better. In my book, I think you're two out of three. And if this was baseball, you'd be one hell of a hitter. But I still remain a little concerned about the facade being so flat.

Okay.

I think you've done an excellent job in listening to us from the last time. And I like it, but what bothers me is that you've got the two black horizontal bands are just painted brick. I don't know offhand how you could do it. It would be nice if there was a brick reveal, a setback, something that was more than just a painted stripe.

So the one option that's listed in the bottom right-hand corner of that rendering We could take a steel C channel, which would be six to eight inches tall and two inches deep and install it with the C facing out. That would give it a little more dimension instead of just the flat black stripe. Is that perhaps what you're asking for? I think

that might work. My concern there would be how do you prevent water from getting behind it? Yeah,

our nation would have to flash it just like he will the canopy element. You have to grind into the mortar and put a flashing in on top of it to make sure we're not getting water in behind it, but it could be done.

That might help it because I like the way you've turned the corners with the bands and ended them on the east and west side, tying it into the window frame.

Yeah, and the upper band is actually the gutter board from the east and west side. There's an existing fascia board that the gutter for the sloped roof hangs from, and that is the upper band wrapping around, is picking up that line. I don't know if maybe one of the side elevations shows that. But yeah, there is a reason why that's not right at the top of the window. Yeah, right there. You go up just a whisker, Anissa. No, the other way. Right there, that picture. No, bottom right of CV2.A. You see it? Yeah. It's not at the head of the second floor windows like I would like it to be, but it is picking up that existing element on the right-hand side of that existing brick parapet. So that's where the position of that band came from. But you're asking, could it be something with some depth and dimension? To

give it some relief from looking like I painted the brick.

Yeah, because a painted brick won't give us any sort of shadow line. No, it

will just give it a little bit of character. But I do like how you've gone around the corner to that first set of windows or the only windows on the side.

And that's existing. That's another item that Justin wasn't able to portray. That parapet in the bottom right-hand corner of CV2.A, that's existing. So we were going to pick that up, take it across and then we've got the peak version or we've got the stepped up version. So it's an existing element.

I like the peak which is A2.1S. Okay. On the rear, it shows that the attic, what appears to be the attic vent has been eliminated And the door from the second floor is gone, it's a window.

On the

elevation. Okay, the drawn elevation doesn't agree with that one.

Yeah, the back is just a paint job of what's existing.

Okay, so you're not changing the back?

Correct.

Okay.

I can update that elevation. That's the north.

Yeah. And the only other thing I might look at would be instead of the curved canopy, would be an angled canopy, have the peak and pick up the peak of the

roof.

But you being the architect, I'm just throwing out ideas.

I'll throw another option at you. The other idea that came to me after I put the curved canopy on was what if the parapet was curved? I don't know whether it would look right or not, so.

I think you've come a long way since we saw the last time. So thank you.

So it's interesting because I had the exact same notes about maybe building out that black stripe just to kind of add some dimension. Because again, I think painted black would just not do it justice. I know these windows look new. Are these just the existing windows of the building?

Justin had them replaced as part of the interior renovation. Okay. Increased efficiency.

On that front picture, are those already replaced in that? these? Yeah.

Or if you got the way they look now, the new windows do not have the individual muttons.

Okay,

they're single, you know, two panes, one per sash.

Okay, gotcha. And then is there going to be signage on this building at all?

We were the original design intent was to apply a sign in the middle of that large upper band, but Justin had already gone through the process with you guys of getting, I think you'd call it a monument sign, but it's basically on the ground in the planner perpendicular to the street.

Okay.

Yeah, there'll be no- Okay, because

I just think that could be another way to add dimension or some interest to the building if there was going to be- It looks like

there's something missing. There's something missing. I thought we were going to do a sign there, but Justin already had something else approved.

Okay.

Hi, good to see you back. I'm glad that you listened to some of our comments. However, I have to say the purity of A2.1s alt would be more preferred for me than the one that just becomes ornamentation. the key truth and the curves, playing the jigger and blah, blah, blah. I feel like there's a purity about the building that with additional ornament to the black banding to cause some kind of relief, that would make it great. But I think just putting a pitch on it and doing a little curvy thing over the door kind of ruins it for me. I actually like the purity of almost the way you started. I mean, it is different now, and it's much better. But I don't want you to go so far that you lose that integrity that you were trying to get in the first place. And I mean, that's just my opinion, but I'm a big...

It's interesting that you prefer this

alternate

because that's why I prepared it as an architect. What I was asked to do by the ARB was kind of a little bit of a confusion of architectural languages to me. And that's why I went ahead and did the alternate.

Yes.

Yeah,

OK. My view as part of this board is A2.1S alt is much more interesting to me and much more pure of statement than the other drawings. And that's my opinion. And I'm not sure what else I can say about that, except like I was saying, I'm a huge fan of Adolf Loos and the whole idea of ornaments on buildings just for sake of ornament is not the way I would practice architecture or landscape architecture or anything else. So to me, that drawing, looks better. I'd like to hear from other board members as well.

I did. Thank you. Yeah, this is all quite interesting. You know, what I look at is, of course, where my eye goes in looking at this as you've presented it. I'm with Carolyn. I like that A2.1S that we have in the package. I can't see the presentation over there in the chambers, but...

It's in your package. It's right afterwards. It's labeled alternate ALT in the bottom right-hand corner.

All right, good. Thank you.

You're welcome.

So, you know, I mean, but it's, I mean, I agree that the flatness is a bit of a problem for me as well. But, you know, it looks like you have made great progress and I definitely appreciate that. But there may be some texture here that we need to provide. And Bob and Steve's comments, I agree with.

So I personally don't have a preference between 2.1 S and 2.1 S. I do agree that that C channel to try to add some depth to the front of the building or some interest would be good.

it for me.

know.

How do we give this architect direction? Because

he's heard two different types of facades regarding the roof.

Well, in our motion,

Just so we're clear too, what's the preference of the applicant? The

applicant is the alternate with the straight lines.

Thank

you. Yes, I will make a motion that we approve the staff's recommendation and adopt And in addition there too, adopt A21S with a peaked roof and curved canopy. And that we have channel? C-channel. C-channels on the both black lines exist right now?

Where we have the black lines. The horizontal black lines will be sea channels in black.

I'm going to give her a support role in trying to frame that correctly then.

I would support that. Now that I think that's more consistent, actually. So I just want to correct what I proposed. That is the a two one s they had the Pete roof, but substitute the curved canopy on that sheet with a peaked

canopy.

Together with a C channel where the black lines are shown on A21S.

I'm having a hard time with this one, but... Aye.

Yes, I understand much better this time around what I need to do. Just some minor tweakings based on Bob's. And those, Anissa, those will be in the meeting minutes for me to follow. Okay.

The applicant is on Zoom.

They're on Zoom. They're present.

Yes, I'm here. Okay, Mike. Yes.

The subject property is located north of the intersection of Whitburn Drive and Clay Shire Drive and is located within the Clay Shire subdivision. The applicant is proposing to install a new fence along the existing asphalt drives on the east and west boundaries of the property. The applicant is proposing a four foot bronze aluminum fence to replace the existing bushes. The applicant has stated that the bushes require frequent maintenance and the aluminum fence will provide a nicer appearance. The applicant also noted that there is a drop off onto the driveways, which creates a fall risk. And the fence is designed to mitigate that risk. Staff is of the opinion that the proposed fence is compatible in design and materials with the surrounding area. And our recommendation is to approve as submitted.

I do not. I think it was summed up very well. I appreciate the time. Thank you.

I cannot say I disagree with that at all. It's never had bushes there. When I took over management maybe seven years ago, it's never had bushes. There has never been an issue. TAB, Mark McIntyre:" Would think possibly the fact that coming from an exterior property onto this property is a little more dangerous than being in the property and walking off where you know the the drives are there are a couple big bushes on the corner of the building on the insides um. And I guess I took a good picture of the bushes because they do look good in this picture. A lot of times in the winter, the leaves are off, they look desolate. You have to trim them a couple of times a year so you go back to more starkness and then they grow back out. So it's not a consistent greenery issue there. I, it's just never been there. It's never been brought up, never even thought about until I started kind of looking at the pictures again before the meeting and that's a very good observation.

What is your first name

Mike. Mike, if I understand, you're basically taking out the bushes and replacing them with a fence.

On the two outside corners, yes. Right. That's it.

And the bushes run to the front yard of the building, is

that correct? Yes, they run past the front of the structure somewhat on both sides.

And how far will the fence come to the front of the sidewalk? All the way up or just where the bushes stop? Where the bushes stop currently. So when the fence ends, how far will the fence be protruding into the front yard would you

gather? Maybe 10, 12 feet. I'd say 10, 12 feet And

the fence will be how high? Four feet. Four feet. You know, looking around, when I see a fence structure going past the building line, I always scratch my head, especially when no one else to my knowledge is doing that in your neighborhood. Is that correct? I believe you're correct. Yes. I don't know if anybody else has a drop off like that. Yeah. And the reason you want to take out the bushes is because the bushes aren't that attractive. They are hard to maintain. especially when you got the drop off into the driveway. Do I understand

it? That's correct. The owner thought it would be a great improvement to the building and the area also. Well,

in my book, the greenery would be an improvement. If you came to me and said, I want to replace an existing fence with a greenery, I would say, oh, that's great. I do understand what you're doing. I am a little concerned about having a fence protruding into the front yard. It looks a little odd. I think it would look a little out of the neighborhood, but the fence you chose isn't the worst thing in the world. I'm just scratching my head a little. That's all. I understand.

Have you considered putting the fence from the back to the edge of the building, you know, stop it at the building line and then leave the shrubs from there forward has that kind of a combination of fence and hedge.

I understand and I considered it when I was speaking to the last person. Yes, only then though.

Okay, I think that would be a better solution. It would look more attractive. Excuse me. And I definitely relate to the hedge being a challenge to maintain. I know my own and I'm not dealing with that height. And it is a challenge. It grows incredibly well when you don't want it to. You wish you could sprinkle something and make it stop at a certain height. That would be perfect. I would Look at combining the two and leaving the shrubs where it's in front of the building line.

Okay. Yeah, if you're in the asphalt driveways that the garage is like eight foot tall. So yeah, inside there, you're trying to trim up 12 to 13 feet when you're trying to those bushes and it is quite a maintenance issue.

Where's that again,

Mike? If you're in the driveway, I've got one picture looking down into the one side of the garage. It's got a little barbecue pit there. That wall is up to the top of the garage ceiling. So that's eight foot. And then you've got another four or five foot up above that. So if you're down in there, as she was saying, it's a maintenance issue to try to trim those from the inside, especially with the height that you have to get up there.

Mike, if I could just follow up. So from the front building line, how high is it from the driveway to the top of the wall there about?

Oh, it's about eight foot. The garage doors are about eight foot high. If that's what, if I'm talking about the same thing.

No, it's

I was trying, if I stand, if I walk out your front door of your building and I turn to the side and I want to walk off into your driveway, how far will I go down?

At that point, it looks about four or five feet. Okay, thank you. Yes.

I kind of agree with everybody. I think that the fence is a good idea for safety. I do miss the greenery, so I wonder if there's something that you build your fence and then you add some greenery just to compensate for the large shrubs that are being removed. I also agree with Bob that I think if we could hold that fence line back and so it doesn't protrude into the front of the yard, that would also be a good idea to think about.

PB Harmon Zuckerman, Okay. PB Harmon Zuckerton, carolyn.

PB Caroline Miller, yeah I have a question um I did not make it out to the site to look at what the shrubs were but they look like you want to miss. PB Caroline Miller , burning Bush perhaps. PB Harmon

Zuckerberg, They are not burning burning Bush say I don't believe they are. PB

Caroline Miller,, Do you know what they are. PB

Harmon Zucklebert, i'm sorry I do not.

HAB-Masyn Moyer- I guess, I should have gone out there and I apologize, but if it is you want to they are that's considered invasive in Missouri so removing them would not be a problem for me the picture they look like they're you want us that's why I was asking. HAB-Marsyn Moyer-I agree with all the other comments about the fence coming out and protruding but other than that I I didn't really have any other comments thanks. PB, Harmon

Zuckerman, Ira.

I personally don't have a problem with the fence going that far into the front yard, just because under the modern building code, if you were going to build a wall like that leading to the garage, you'd be required to put a fence on top of it anyhow. So I would say that anywhere where we have a slope like that in a front yard, it's commonplace to see a fence, although it might not be in this neighborhood. So I'm not opposed to the fence being there. Outside of that, I don't have any other comments. Thank you.

Dave Kuntz, um I do not still trying to think of those bushes turn red in the fall so i'm sorry I don't know that answer. Karen

Hollweg, If they turn red in the ball it's it's you want to mess allowed us. Dave Kuntz , It

would be burning Bush.

yeah. Dave

KuntZ,

yeah. Dave

KUNTZ, I have no further comments Okay,

I'll make a motion to approve as submitted.

Okay, the subject property is located on the east side of demand avenue between North Rosebury Avenue and Northwood Avenue. The property has a zoning designation of neighborhood commercial district existing restaurant Sasha's occupies the southern tenant space in the building. The applicant is proposing to remove the existing walking cooler permits location on the rooftop to the screen rear yard at the alley. The walk-in cooler area is approximately six feet in width and nine feet, six inches in length. It is currently located in the corner of the roof behind the existing Sasha's rooftop dining. The applicant is proposing to relocate the cooler to the enclosed area where the trash and recycling bins are stored. Currently, the screening for this area consists of a chain link fence. To improve the appearance of the area and fully screen the walk-in cooler and the existing bins, The applicant has proposed black opaque landscape cloth stretched tight on all sides to obscure the view into the rear yard. Staff is of the opinion that the proposed relocation and screening is an improvement and will clean up the appearance of the alley. Our recommendation is to approve as submitted.

Thank you. Good evening. Good evening. Alan Richman, owner of Sasha's Wine Bar. I'm here again. Try not to see how much money I can throw into this place. Yeah, we would like to relocate this walk-in so that it functions better and I can keep kitchen staff from quitting because they don't have to run up and down the steps so often. I think it would be an aesthetic improvement as well to the rooftop deck so that the back of the house isn't running in and out for supplies while people are dining on the roof.

just the fabric infill? I think just the fabric infil, the structure stays.

Architects, I think has a sample for me.

Or space architects. The screen cloth is a standard. It's designed for a fence. It's made out of polyester, and it has an opacity of about 5% to 10%. It's designed for this, and so it's kind of a matte landscape screen, similar to what you'd see on a shade in a window, but it has a higher opacity. So it's designed to last a long time in the UV and not break down. Don't have a sample of it, but we'd be happy to provide one.

The idea is to put it on the outside. Because on the outside, I mean, there are trucks in the alley. But on the outside, there's mostly pedestrians walking around there, staff going in and out. And heavy stuff rolling around on the inside is going to . Put it on the inside, you're also going to see the chain link as well.

It would also provide, it would help with the fabric to keep it from blowing around and keep it structurally nice.

think Alan's a great citizen, great guy, and Sasha's is a jewel to our community. Thank you. You got my support. Thank you.

No questions. Looks good.

Yeah, no comments.

I have no comments either.

No comments.

approve.

stereo. I know.

Would you? She does it better.

I'll make a motion to approve as submitted.

Yes, I will add to that a sample of the screening cloth to be provided to the city for approval. Second.

you very

The project address is 8250 Forsyth Boulevard. This request is for a public hearing to solicit input regarding the rezoning and planned unit development, as well as the site plan review. Architectural review will follow in a separate presentation. The purpose of the PUD process is to foster the appropriate use of existing buildings and enable compatible redevelopment which provides public benefits as identified in code. A PUD must provide these public benefits to the surrounding neighborhoods and to the city above and beyond what can be reasonably achieved by application of the zoning provisions of the original zoning district. The 50,063 square foot site includes two parcels located Southwest of the intersection of Maryland Avenue and Forsyth Boulevard adjacent to this jobs building. The properties have a zoning designation of C1 neighborhood commercial district with the Northern parcel also being located in the Maryland Gateway downtown overlay district. The site is currently improved with one and two story buildings in a surface parking lot. Adjacent land uses include retail office and residential. The proposed project consists of the construction of a four-story, 42-unit condominium building with a 1,025 square foot retail space on the ground floor that will operate as a fitness facility open to the general public. Off-street parking is provided via 84 spaces in the basement of the building. Access to this parking garage is proposed off of Forsyth Boulevard at the southeastern corner of the site. The project seeks relief from certain development standards that are set forth in the current zoning district. The number of requested modifications to the development standards that are required by the design of the project are what drive the number of public benefits that the developer is then required to provide in terms of a point scale set forth in code. All PUDs shall provide at least one public benefit or combination of public benefits that total at least 10 points beyond those additional points required for any desired code alternatives. The total amount of points required to be achieved as a result of providing public benefits in this case is 25. A table summarizing the requested modifications, as well as the proposed public benefits is included on pages three and four of the staff report. I will now analyze the point categories in detail. These were all provided by the applicant and staff has then made an assessment of the points that we would allot for each of these benefits. The first is 405.1380B1, constructing buildings exhibiting architectural distinction and significance that would make the development unique. The developer has requested five points and staff has awarded four. The proposed architecture uses high quality building materials of brick and cast stone, which compliment the surrounding properties. The front facade of the building aligns with the curve of Forsyth Boulevard, which provides a more pleasing experience for pedestrians. The second point category is 405.1380B3, provision of new or enhanced public infrastructure. The developer has requested six points, staff has awarded five. Staff concurs with the allotment of two points per enhancement with the exception of the front yard landscaping. The landscape buffer will provide visual relief of the long facade along the west property line adjacent to an existing condominium building and the rain garden provides interest on the front elevation. The applicant has submitted changes since the writing of this staff report, which addressed some of the items of concern noted in the staff analysis regarding the landscaping, including the extension of the buffer and changes to landscaping along the building's front entry. However, staff agrees with the original assessment of five out of six points. The next public benefit is 405.1380B5A-H, sustainable building design and construction. The development will comply with lead silver requirements and staff concurs with the allotment of one point for complying with lead silver requirements. The next section is 405.1380 projects which provide and protect green infrastructure, such as planned and managed networks of open spaces, including parks and features that use natural means. Staff believes that the bioswale in the rear yard along with the blue roof on the building provide a valuable benefit in terms of stormwater mitigation. Additionally, the proposed project reduces the impervious coverage from the existing 90.6% to 79.5%. Therefore staff has allotted four points for the provision of these features. Next section is 405.1380B10 inclusion of a below grade parking facility which meets the parking requirements for the project. 100% of the required parking for the development will be located below grade, and staff concurs with the applicant's allotment of five points for fully underground parking. The final section is 405.1380B12, a significant form of public art in any media that has been planned and executed with the intention of being staged on private property outside and accessible to the public. The developer has requested five points. Staff has recommended three points. The inclusion of public art along the facade, most readily accessible by pedestrians is a benefit. However, the exact public art is yet to be identified. Staff is of the opinion that an allotment of the full five points for public art can only be granted when the art and artists are fully identified. Without knowing this information, staff has allotted three points for this public benefit. As referenced in the tables contained in the report, total number of points required is 25. Staff's analysis of the public benefits results in a point total of 22, leaving the project short of the necessary points for approval. However, staff would like to specifically note that one of the code requirements of the Maryland Gateway Downtown Overlay District, which the applicant is requesting a modification from, may be altered or eliminated as a requirement at the discretion of the plan commission. The code requirement states for buildings permitted to exceed the maximum height through the beauty process of 15 foot step back shall be provided at the third story level or 30 feet above grade whichever is less. However, the plan Commission shall have the authority to require a different step back for buildings depending upon building height lot size and other factors. Therefore, the plan commission has the authority to require a different step back, including no step back for the proposed building. Should the plan commission choose to require no step back then the applicant is not required to provide public benefits points for not providing a step-back. In that case, the total number of points required would be 20 rather than 25. Staff is of the opinion that the step-back requirement should not be required. The step-back would not be cohesive with other buildings in the area which do not feature step-backs and would drastically impact the current design of the building, which compliments the Forsyth curve and the adjacent buildings to the North and South. As opposed to other properties in the overlay district, the subject development is only partially in the overlay district and only adjacent the overlay district along a one side property line. Now transition from the points analysis to code criteria for beauties and the site plan review process. As far as the downtown master plan, the proposed mixed use development serves as a transition between commercial uses to the north and residential uses to the west by incorporating a mix of residential and retail. Staff is of the opinion that the proposed development is consistent with the downtown master plan. With regards to compatibility, mechanical units are proposed to be located on the rooftop. Based on feedback at the community conference, the applicant has hired an acoustic consultant who is evaluating the noise produced by the mechanical units and will make recommendations on the potential reduction or elimination from the noise of these units at the rear property line adjacent to the existing condominiums. In terms of stormwater drainage, the existing impervious coverage is 90.6% and it is being reduced to 79.5%. There are no limits for impervious coverage in commercial districts. The existing stormwater runoff according to the MSD 15 year 20 minute calculation is 4.54 cubic feet per second. The proposed runoff is 4.47 cubic feet per second which represents a decrease of 0.07 CFS. The hydrodynamic separator will be provided to handle stormwater and no detention is required. Regarding landscaping, as noted in the report from the city's contracted landscape consultant, the proposed landscape buffer requires slight modification. For that report, the buffer plantings are tightly spaced and the canopy trees in this area should be emitted to avoid evergreen trees growing up into the canopy trees above. The applicant has responded that the proposed deciduous trees will have ample room to grow and has left these plantings in with a slight adjustment to the spacing. Based on the report, the applicant also added evergreen trees and shrubs to extend the buffer to the south. Regarding lighting, the applicant did not propose a detailed lighting plan at this time. A detailed lighting and photometric plan compliant with the outdoor lighting standards must be submitted along with the building permits submittal. The applicant did provide conceptual lighting diagrams and cut sheets at this point in the review process, and no adverse lighting effects are anticipated by staff. Regarding traffic circulation, the development will have access to the below-grade garage from Forsyth Boulevard. A drop-off area is proposed at the northeast corner of the site. Traffic study from CBB, the city's traffic and parking consultant, indicates that the study intersections currently operate at desirable levels of service during the a.m. weekday peak hours and undesirable levels of surface during the p.m. peak hours. The proposed development is expected to generate 19 new vehicular trips during the AM peak hour and 26 new vehicular trips, during the PM peak hour. The additional trips generated by the condominiums can be accommodated at the adjacent signalized and unsignalized intersections with minimal increases in delay and no physical improvements. The proposed parking garage will have 84 parking spaces. The parking study performed by CBB was based on the international traffic engineers, urban land Institute and the city of Clayton parking requirements. The study concluded that while the proposed number of spaces does not meet the minimum number of parking spaces identified in the city zoning ordinance that would exceed the comfortable number of spaces recommended to serve the proposed number of residential units, as well as the proposed fitness facility. Her code one bicycle rack is required for every 10,000 square feet of commercial and one bicycle rock is required for every 20 dwelling units of multifamily for a total of two racks. The locations of the bicycle racks were not noted on the site plan. With regard to buffering, surrounding land uses are similar in nature and scale with commercial to the north and residential to the west. A landscape buffer is provided between the proposed development and the existing condominium building to the west. In conclusion, the proposed development will revitalize underused parcels and provide a transition between land uses in the area. The Maryland Gateway District requires that ground floor uses be retail in nature. As development has progressed, it has been increasingly evident that a mixture of commercial and residential uses is necessary to transition between fully commercial and fully residential areas. While some amount of retail is necessary, an adequate mixture of uses in keeping with the character of the area, the configuration of the proposed building and site layout and other factors outlined in the report are critical in the assessment of permitted uses. Staff is of the opinion that the permitted uses, public benefits, and design of the site and building are compatible with code and the context of the neighborhood. Staff's recommendation is to recommend approval of the rezoning PUD to the Board of Aldermen with the following conditions. First, a temporary bicycle and pedestrian path shall be established and maintained during demolition and construction. Second, the concrete steps shown encroaching on the right-of-way will require a use and maintenance agreement. Third, streetscape plans shall be approved by the public works department prior to installation activities. The street tree irrigation line will be subject to the approval of the public works superintendent and street tree and street light placement to be approved by the city engineer. Fourth, the sidewalks upgrade within the public right-of-way shall be either CU structural soil or silva cells. Fifth, manholes located within the street service shall be located outside of the wheel path of traveling vehicles. Sixth, all comments from the April 20th, 2022 intuition and logic SWPPP memorandum shall be addressed. Seventh, bollard product and installation type for the three bollards at the loading drop-off area shall be included in building permit documents. Finally, staff would like to add one condition that was discussed but not specifically listed as a recommendation in the report. That would be number eight, that the developer must provide two bicycle racks in accordance with city code. and the site plan shall be revised to show these locations. And that concludes my presentation.

We're actually going to have Mike from Sasha speak. You seem to do such a good job. That's Alan. Yeah, Alan. I'm sorry, Alan. OK. And so I'm David Robert with MIDAS. Do you want me to go through a presentation? What would you like to do, sir? I didn't know what the-

We agree with the staff report. So no additional comments. They do a great job. It was lengthy, and they did a great job. Yes.

if we can

Does that say ARP in the top? I can't read it.

One paragraph allows you to read that stuff.

All right. So just kind of go through it real quick. So thank you for your time today, Mr. Chairman. So this is just an aerial of the site, just to make everyone familiar with what we're doing. It's actually two parcels that we're taking out. So it's two buildings. They've been vacant for about 10 years. Our site is between Straub's and Bank of America, right across the street from the new residence in by Marriott that we're building, which would be right here. So this is the site right here. on the Forsyth Bend. This is what one of the parcels looks like today. So this was the former gas station, former laundromat that sits right next to Straub's. This would be the office building just immediately to its south. There was a lot of discussion last time about trying to recycle this building or reuse this building and we spent a lot of time over the last couple of months researching that. we don't think there's any historic value from the architect or the building itself. And then we've had a lot of engineers go through it, including ADA consultants, architects, mechanical engineers, roofing consultants, all have come up to the same, um, conclusion, basically, that there's nothing that's savable on the inside of the building. The roof's in bad shape. It's not ADA compliant, elevators, et cetera. So if we would renovate this building, we would do a complete overhaul. And the cost to do that would require us to rent the space for like twice of what the rates go in Clayton. So economically, it just did not make sense to try and recycle the building. Our hotel is right across the street, so this is a view from across the street. We're a neighbor here too and we don't like looking at it and so we would like to replace it. This is what we're proposing. As you heard, it's a four-story 42 luxury condos anywhere from 2,000 to 3,000 square foot units. The access for the condos is right here on the right side, mostly brick and stone. The garage is at the far left. and it will take you down into the basement. So all of our parking is below grade. This area here, we're proposing taking out some parking. One of the things that came up in the neighborhood meeting was that Uber drivers, et cetera, have space for them to be able to offload people safely out off the street and deliveries, et cetera. So we're proposing that right there in front. This is a kind of gives you a visual of the materials on the outside of the building. So it is stone and brick. We think it's an attractive building and fits in the community very, very nicely. Again, some of the detail that we're doing. Again, our architects spent a lot of time trying to do something that would be very unique, very tasteful, that looked good on this corner. Our building is on the bend, so it's going to be very visible as people come around the corner. So you can kind of see it's still mostly stone, brick, and then glass, but we think very, very well done. And this kind of gives you a visual of the first floor. Again, you can see one of the comments from the first meeting that we met with your group was that we wanted to curve the building to match the streets. So you can kind of see now the building is a little bit of an S to follow the curve of Forsyth. The other comment that we got from you guys on our first visit was that the building was back farther and was closer to the property lines. We've actually pulled the building up from the back And so to give, we're about 15 feet farther away now from the property line, thus 15 feet farther away from our neighbors behind us to give them more space. So we've reduced the selling square footage in the building, but we think we've created something nicer for both ourselves and our neighbors behind us. And then this would be the back of the building. You can see how the building's been pushed forward a little bit, and the first floor units do have some outdoor patio areas. Our goal here is to heavy landscape between us and our neighbors. We think that's beneficial for both of the new condo owners and the owners behind us. We want to have privacy as do they. We have moved all the air conditioning units to the roof of the building. So there's no mechanical units out on the property line that would back up to our neighbors with noise. As you heard, we did do an acoustical study with putting these units on the roof. It's well, well below what the county guidelines are for noise now. So it will not be an issue for our neighbors behind us by putting them on the roof like this. And that is our building. Well, thank you for hearing us out. OK.

input. We've tried to listen.

Well, there is street parking. So there is metered street parking out in front. We do have access to the garage across the street too. And so like service people, like cleaners, people that will be cleaning the condos because people have service for that, right? They will be, we're going to have access at the garage across the Street for them to park so that they will not be clogging up the street.

I mean, the hotel is valet parked too, and it'll be parked in the garage also. So we don't expect the hotel people to be parking on the street. We think they'll use the garage that's behind us. It'll be much more affordable for them to do that.

Hi, Steve method. So you've heard of a green roof, a blue roof is a roof that incorporates storage of rainwater to allow it to then slowly seep out into your roof drainage system for dissipation. So it's a means of temporary retention of stormwater.

We're not actually required to have any detention. Yeah. So this is just an additional benefit to the overall system.

staff? Recently received it, and I will submit a copy.

Hydrodynamic separator is just a means of separating the elements that are pulled into stormwater so that it doesn't clog the system downstream. Right.

So we have the bioswale at the rear of the property, which is also to direct to stormwater, but we're putting rain garden features in that same area to again help to absorb stormwater. So there is a stormwater collection along that back property line in a swale.

There are a number of those storm drain inlets.

Correct.

Forsyth. Forsyth, yeah. No,

We are including electric charging stations in the parking

Our, so half of the project is in one district and half of it's another district. We, if I understand correctly, just correct me if I'm wrong here, but we, because we match up with the Bank of America building from the front setback, correct? But Strob's, because they have a parking in front, is recessed back. So we do not match up to them. We, I think the, I think the city would probably prefer us to pull up to the city or pull up to the street, right? But because of that, we lost five points because we don't match up with Straub's. And I think if Straub's would ever be redeveloped, I don't know that they would have parking in front in the future anyways, but that did affect our point total. That makes sense? It does.

No, it was the three floor plans. OK. There. OK.

The one on the right, this is the exit, right, Steve? Yes, they're exiting right there on that red. That's how you exit out of the building. On the one on the right. The

one on the left goes through the lobby. Oh.

Correct.

It's the same stairs.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. I get that now. I think that takes care of my concerns right now. Bob?

Generally speaking, I like what you guys are presenting. I like seeing condos instead of apartments. I mean, the trend has been apartments for a little while now. So I think that's good for the market and for Clayton. The fact that you're building condos on what otherwise would be a commercial street, I think just reflects the economic reality of how hard it is for office space to be rented out. The four stories instead of three stories doesn't Based me, I'd like to hear what the homeowners behind have to say about that. The buffer in the backyard, is it sufficient? Boy, you sure, the picture sure show a lot.

There'll be a landscape architect engaged to make that look like that.

I like the curve. It really incorporates the best of where you're located. And, you know... As I, from my profession in real estate law, you know, I just know that the reasonable expectations of surrounding owners is that they should not expect a dead building to stay there indefinitely. Especially if it's on a commercial road, something eventually is going to happen. The question is, is this the right one? From my point of view, It's not that you're building a tower there. So I'm really interested to see what the homeowners have to say. I like the fact that you've got landscaping balconies and a very attractive entrance to give somewhat of a nice feel for pedestrians walking by. And that is really always important to me. Would I like to walk by your building and feel okay about it? The electric charging stations, I like the blue roof. Is that like AstroTurf at a baseball park?

Are there small, shallow containers that hold rainwater and slowly release it? There's a bottom of those containers that's water and then slowly...

Anyway, it sounds like you guys have gone through a lot to get to this point. And it sounds like you've come a long way. And what I see is pretty good at this moment.

Thank you, sir. I

have nothing else.

I will ditto the comment about liking it. I think you have come a long way on it. My only question that hasn't been brought up is if I'm handicapped in a wheelchair, how do I get into the front door or the fitness center from the outside?

Yeah. Site plan or the front validation?

There is a sloped sidewalk that comes from this far north.

There's a ramp, there's a ramp along the front of the building.

Okay. So that's why we located the retail piece, the entry up at that grade and then it's grade drops that works naturally with the residential use so that people that are sitting... passing by is three to four feet below they're living. We debated having a ramp over on the left end of the retail, but it basically grades out to the dock entry kind of walk in from there. So we potentially add a ramp to the left or the west or south of the retail piece, but it's accessible. It's accessible with a ramp.

Thank you. Amy.

So a couple of questions. Why did you go with the blue roof instead of a green roof?

Because you can't really see it except from our hotel. And so the added benefits of the green roof.

For some reason, we can't hear the response.

I wasn't stepping up. That's my, I apologize. So the green roof provides a lot of benefits that we could also get with a white roof as well. But the green roof is also really nice to look at if you can see it. And there'll be no one except for our hotel that would look down and see this rooftop. So we thought that the blue roof providing some additional benefit to the property and the surrounding stormwater system would be a better choice.

So a green roof does not mitigate stormwater?

All living plants absorb water, but the blue roof actually does it a little better.

Okay, so they're like in your hotel or whether it's in the office buildings, they're going to see giant squares all along? TAB, The roof

well there's a pyramid around this rooftop as well right. TAB,

Okay, and then, as far as your art, I mean that's the big. TAB, You know, public benefit, I saw on the plan, there was just two sculptures i'm assuming or is it.

selected art okay we intend to do something significant at the entry uh the monumental entrance um and then you know potentially depending on what art is chosen carry that theme through

again we're not again we can't hear yeah

can

you please make sure you talk into the mic so we can hear you

I'm

sorry,

our art program is not yet defined. Our intention is to provide a rather monumental piece at the monumental entrance and then a potential collection of smaller pieces along the pedestrian path.

So this would not be anything attached to the building would all be kind of on along the site. Okay. So people walking along the sidewalk would be able to engage with it and see it and everything like that. Okay. And then my other comment is just kind of a broad statement. You're asking for this to be designated as a mixed use building and you only have one tenant. And right now it's a what? Jim, is that right?

Yeah. Our initial plan when we presented to conceptual review was to do a PUD with multifamily only. And the idea that if we could add some commercial or retail to this mix, it would be seen more beneficial to our overall. So we looked at incorporating a retail that would be an amenity to the residential development that we're

But it's for public use also?

It is.

Okay. And then the rain gardens, that's only along the back?

We have right now discussed in the application doing a rain garden in the front at the southern, southeastern end as well, as well as one on the western edge. Okay.

No other questions? Thanks.

Well, no. That would be where all the water is draining. And so a rain garden in that southeast corner would also temporarily hold stormwater before releasing into the surrounding grounds, et cetera.

Correct.

No, it's actually, it's probably closer to where that dynamic separator is shown.

Hi, yeah. Unfortunately tonight I could not be in the room, the chambers. So it's very hard to hear some of the responses. I do want you to clarify for everyone the difference between a bioswale and a rain garden because they are different things.

Initially we were simply putting in a bioswale to aid and assist in our stormwater drainage. We elevated that to a rain garden for additional benefits. So there are, you know, a number of areas along that back line that we intend to plant with water loving plants.

Yeah, the bald cypress trees are brilliant, obviously. HAB-Masyn Moyer- That's what they do. They soak up water. I would, well we're on the PUD right now, correct?

Yes. Okay.

HAB-Marsyn Moyer- As far as that is concerned, I do not have comments. When we get to site plan review, I do have comments. HAB-Marysyn Moyer- So for now, we can continue on.

Okay. Karen Hollweg, I remember when you all came before us previously and now you've curved the building. Karen Hollweg , It is better. I'm still feeling a little bit like it's a little bit like a motel looking, but other than that, when we get to site plan part, I agree with the comments that were already stated. So I don't need to repeat those, but I do have to say that whoever's doing your landscape architecture needs to get Venka and keeping Jenny off of their plant list because they're considered invasive plants from Missouri in the Midwest. And it's disappointing for me to still see those on any kind of planting list. Not good.

So I hear you will make sure that we include that.

I would take them off, yeah. And then anytime you can use an actual species as opposed to a hybrid or a cultivar, please do that because what happens is everybody's like, oh, we've got pollinators. And a lot of times you actually don't have pollinators. You have a hybrid that doesn't produce pollen, therefore no butterflies, no bees, nothing. So I think as... a community, we should be behind specifying even a tree here. You've got regal prince oak. What about just porcus alba or porcus rubra or bur oak or cuspellus, any of those are pure forms of the tree as opposed to like these hybrids that really aren't from here or never were from here. So as a landscape architect, which you're probably like, why is she commenting on landscape? But as a landscape architect I just, I need to push it. I need to really, really try to impress upon community to pay attention to what we're planting. What are we doing? And you guys know, whoops, what's going on here? You guys know, whoever's your landscape architect knows what good is. So those were my only comments as far as site plan and

All right, thank you. We're taking notes. So we'll get that to the landscape architect and try to incorporate some of your ideas. And if we didn't catch it all, we may reach back out to you because I don't know that I caught all that. Yeah.

The

guy taking notes, I'm sure did.

Yeah, the connection is a little bit off right now. I don't know what's going on. It must be the rain. But feel free to absolutely reach out to me. I would rather get it right than wrong. So appreciate it.

Thank you. Thanks. That was all

for me.

Ira?

Thanks, Steve. Yeah, I guess a few questions. And I think if we're looking at this from a position of architectural significance or distinction, which is what I understand you're getting five points for. I would respectfully disagree because I'm not seeing any architectural distinction. What I see is, again, the same square building. I know it's aligned with the street. And I know that you've made a good effort to get it that way. And I appreciate that. But to me, it's still a box that's kind of got some contours to it. But that's about it. I'm not looking to be rough. I just really want to get our downtown area with a whole lot more architectural distinction than kind of more of the same. There's the other part. I wanted to ask you a question about the fitness center. What is that intended to be and is that something that is a membership driven? Is it What do you anticipate to use that

for? It'll be some type of fitness business, and we've got a couple feelers out there now. It'll be open to the public. It's probably some type of a membership program, but it's to be determined. But it will be a retail business that's probably fitness.

There will be group training classes in a multipurpose space as well as weights and... nonetheless type of machines.

All right, so you're kind of hitting on all the wrong stands here. We've got a fitness center that's not all that far from our Clayton Center. We have a fitness center now in a building It doesn't really have any parking for its guests of the building. I'm hoping you'll have accessible parking somewhere for the fitness center people. I'm not sure where, maybe across the street. But I haven't heard what that's going to be. And of course, being a steward of the city, I'm not seeing a whole lot of great tax revenue for that as a retail establishment. So none of that really appeals to me. I

understand. Let us keep working on the occupant for that. It's not decided yet. So let us keep working on that occupant.

I would really appreciate your revisiting that. I appreciate that. I had some questions. I know we had some questions. So I couldn't really hear the answer. I think you mentioned we were talking about people in wheelchairs and accessibility. Are any of your units actually handicapped accessible for individuals who are in wheelchairs? The requirements.

So they all will be accessible. They will, is that correct? So there will be accessibility in the rooms. Thomas, I'm sorry, you probably couldn't hear him. But there will be accessibility. There are certain things that will be in all the units that will make them accessible. And then it will be a certain percentage of the units that will be fully accessible.

Okay, very good. Just one little detail. Some buildings will say they're accessible, but a person in a wheelchair can't even get into the front door. There may be a ramp. Will you have an outdoor capability for a remote open and close of your front doors? We're

actually going to have a doorman. but there will be a panic button there too just that would open the door.

Okay, great. I'm sure it's in all this material here, but seriously, some of the fine print is really hard to get to, but I appreciate that. Understood. Good

questions. Thank you.

Thank you for doing that. Other than that, I don't have anything further. Thanks.

Thanks, Saira. David? First, I would just say on the public art, I think it's important that we add a condition that the public art advisory committee take a look at whatever arts submitted and make a recommendation ultimately to be approved either by this body or by the Board of Aldermen in order to get those points. That's fair. And then Mr. Chair, should we address the setback as a group, the upper building step back? Yes. In order to get that, the required number of points established for this? Correct. Would be the next step. Okay.

Steve, I'm in agreement with you on that point. Helen?

I agree with you.

I guess one of my concerns with that is just that when we were looking at some of the gateway guidelines, a big part of it was to have, let's say like connections, pediatric, I'm sorry, pedestrian gathering spaces, street furniture and other elements for active pedestrians area. And that kind of eliminates that. And so that's a concern of mine. I

just want to make sure we're looking at the same thing. So what we need to figure out is the upper floor step back.

So this is a

requirement. I just want make sure we're all looking at the same terminology.

Okay, that's fine.

Carolyn.

I agree.

Ira? Yeah, I don't have a particular problem with eliminating that setback regulation.

And I would agree as well.

All right. If you could hit the button there. It'll turn green. There you go.

Sorry about that. Yes, and I would, after the public hearing, I would go ahead and vote on that motion first because then that's going to give you the points to proceed then with the PUD. So you would vote on that separately.

This is a public hearing, yes. So I would go ahead into the public hearing before you do that motion. And then

Yes, you know, I really respect you guys and the work you have put forward, but I really am in agreement with Ira on the architecture. I mean, I think in Clayton, everything is square or a rectangle and it's time we start having a little curves, a little uniqueness twist here. I've been traveling a lot and I see what all these cities are doing and we're just stuck with a rear view mirror looking at the past, I feel. At the same time, I complimented you by saying I appreciate the landscaping. I appreciate you created some texture in your building with the balconies and a wonderful entryway. So I'm willing to go forward with you, but I really want developers to know, I think there's a lot of people here in Clayton that are really looking for some architectural uniqueness. I mean, Chicago and New Jeffery Yorg don't have to have the monopoly on these things. And there's a lot secondary cities that have really gotten progressive to get away from the typical rectangular box that you find in suburban downtowns. That being said, I'd give it a three. I feel like I'm on a game show, you know?

Yes, you know, I really respect you guys and the work you have put forward, but I really am in agreement with Ira on the architecture. I mean, I think in Clayton, everything is square or a rectangle and it's time we start having a little curves, a little uniqueness twist here. I've been traveling a lot and I see what all these cities are doing and we're just stuck with a rear view mirror looking at the past, I feel. At the same time, I complimented you by saying I appreciate the landscaping. I appreciate you created some texture in your building with the balconies and a wonderful entryway. So I'm willing to go forward with you, but I really want developers to know, I think there's a lot of people here in Clayton that are really looking for some architectural uniqueness. I mean, Chicago and New York don't have to have the monopoly on these things. And there's a lot secondary cities that have really gotten progressive to get away from the typical rectangular box that you find in suburban downtowns. That being said, I'd give it a three. I feel like I'm on a game show, you know?

I do think that curvature of that front of that building as you're driving down Forsyth is going to give it a lot of character. I mean, it's hard to visualize in 2D, but I think that it's really going to give it some uniqueness and it's going to look really cool. I

appreciate it. And I agree with what you said, which is one reason why I'm giving it a three.

I'm between a three and a four, but I think I'd give it a four. Way to

go. I think we need a sign that goes up. Amy?

I'm between a 3 and a 4 also. I think unfortunately the site does lend itself to, I mean, I think you did a good job at curving the front facade, but I mean, it is more of a square site. So I would go with a four.

Wow. Not to be controversial, but I'm giving it a two. I'm disappointed. I think you guys are all very talented people. I'm not talking about the ARB people. I'm talking about the architects here. And it could go a little bit further. HAB-Juliette Boone, The curve doesn't do it for me the mackie Mitchell building along 40 curving was a statement it's not a great piece of architecture either, in my opinion, but I mean. HAB-Julie Peters- Okay i'm gonna leave it at that I give it to. HAB-Terry

Palmos- Ira. Yeah, and as I mentioned before, you know, I mean, it's just not distinctive. And I think that's the word used is distinction. You know, and so I'm sort of with Carol, and I'd probably give it a two.

David? I think I would give it a three.

I don't have a problem with the five. I'm really impressed with what you guys have done.

I would say a five. I really like the landscape buffer at the rear. I think that's very important. And it seems that you have some evergreens along the rear, which in the wintertime will, it'll still look good. So I would go with five.

gonna go with a four.

I would go with a four or five, given my request of getting rid of the invasives, however.

Yeah, we heard you. We got it.

Okay,

good. Is that by a surprise?

Yeah. No, I appreciate the entire blue roof and bio-soil gestures as long as they work and they function well.

So I would give it a four,

yeah.

We'll take care of it. Just want to note, it's OK to go above staff recommendation for points too. I just want you guys to know that.

Ira? Yeah, I'd go with a four. I'm comfortable with that.

And David? I would be agreeable with a five. I think they've done a lot on a small site.

Potter, Okay,

Dave Kuntz, No, I would be in agreement with that, but if you look at a through H in the in the municipal code, there are. additional points available for things like electric vehicle charging stations, if they're available to the public. I imagine your charging stations, though, are going to be limited to the garage space and tenants only. Okay, I just wanted to clarify that.

David, is that in this line item, the bonus points for that?

Correct. Under sustainable building design construction, you'll notice on the far left under code section, it says B5A through H.

I would increase the points then because I think charging stations are cutting edge. They need to be done. And for some reason, not enough developers are doing it.

The only issue with it, Bob, is that the code requires it to be available to the public. So if these are designated spaces for tenants, then it wouldn't qualify. I just wanted to verify that before you moved on to the next one. Otherwise, I would have agreed with you.

Four. Um, I'm leaning towards five actually, because not people care enough to even try it. So, um, it's a little innovative and whether or not it actually functions is up to, you know, his, you know, the future, but the fact that you guys are even trying it to me, get gets kudos. So I would give a four or five to be final on it. I would say five.

Bob? I'll go with a staff recommendation. Five. Okay,

Juilland, Carolyn. HAB-Charlotte Pitts, Ira. HAB-Michael Leccese, Is this, so this go to the quantity or is it just where it's located. HAB-Terry Palmos- This is just where

it's. located. HAB–Michael Leccesse, Oh okay.

HAB-Michael Leccesse , Well yeah I can't think of anywhere else that would be better located. HAB-, Michael Leccesse & So. I'm not sure why we wouldn't give it a five, so on with the five if that's the case.

I'd like to give you more, but we're blind at this moment in time.

Understood.

And so three is reasonable under the circumstances.

Three.

Three.

Three.

You know, I just don't think, I mean, I have a hard, I don't know how to base this, I don't Is there somewhere in the plans where there's something depicted or is it just talk at this point?

At this point, it's a concept that we are going to prepare an art package and submit it for review and approval.

So are we suggesting that the Art Commission is going to be in a position to approve of If we did, if we give three. We are operating in complete lines and I would much rather know what's going on here before I get points. So I'm not willing to give a point to this

correct? I'm suggesting yeah, if there's some. Yeah, at this point I'm suggesting that they would be 0 since I don't know what it is exactly.

I would be okay with three points on that. But again, I think we need a condition on there. And what I'd like to see is Since the Board of Aldermen ultimately decides the number of points using their legislative discretion, I would be comfortable with three in there so long as the PAC recommendation ends up going to the Board of Alderman for their approval so that they can affirm those points and make sure that it meets their expectations if they were to award three during this rezoning process.

That seems fair. I

think that's fair. Okay. That's it.

Yes, we have. We're at 22, I think.

Is that using the three points for the art?

Chairman, if I may, I did add up everyone's points for each column and then I averaged them out. So doing it that way without doing any rounding, I did get 20.36. 20.36. Yes. Yes.

And my only problem with this, Steve, again, is assessing any number of points at all for artwork we don't know what it is or that we haven't seen it. That doesn't mean they can't qualify for it at some point, but I just don't know how we assess it at this point.

Right, but yeah, okay. I'm just saying, I think at this point, our commission, at this point, I don't know how we can justify assigning any number of points at all.

I agree with you, Ira, on that one. Absolutely. It's random right now. It's interesting that they will follow through as opposed to saying, okay, this is the plan, right?

Right.

Right. So I just have a strong feeling that as this board is concerned, that we don't have any basis for assigning points and we should leave it at that.

Let me do some math.

Mm-hmm. I would just like to add as a point of information, just so you are aware, for previous PUDs, it is common, not common, but it has happened that the art has been determined later than the plan commission stage and was reviewed by the PAC before going to the Board of Aldermen. So staff's assessment of the points was based on previous assessments. Usually somewhere between two to three points, depending upon the number of art, even if it's not identified at this stage. So with there being multiple pieces, even though we don't know what those are at this stage, staff decided upon three points. But of course, that's at your discretion since you do not have a physical piece to review yet.

And I think that the suggestion is that there be a recommendation placed on this that would not allow the entire project to go forward until they got that art, that public art piece in place.

That sounds

That would be one of the conditions, right? And so then you would be assured that the project would not go forward without that public art piece in place.

Right. We don't know what that, in other words, we're assigning points again to something we don't know what it is. I appreciate that they would need to put it in place in order to get their approvals. to something we don't know anything about.

Okay. Maybe Steve, it might be helpful if you have a quick conversation about the concept that they've proposed. So the idea of one large piece within multiple pieces placed along the pedestrian way, the idea of that scale of art having some discussion to lead for the committee, the art committee to look at, to understand, do you think that scale is related to three points or not? Or do you think that scales related to one?

We haven't taken it any further down than the goal. We haven't taken that concept any further past the idea that there would be a monumental piece at the main entrance, and then a series of pieces along the pedestrian way to unite the entire facade of the building.

Yeah, we're not gonna do something shabby, okay? So that's just not gonna happen. I know that you have an obligation to make sure that hold us accountable, but we are not gonna do something that you're gonna be disappointed with. I would hope that we could agree on a three. And with the condition that is in place, that would satisfy because you're going to be happy with what we do.

Don't get me wrong. I want you to do art. I want to see public art. I want see that happen. And so I'd love to figure out a way that we can make sure it happens. Make sure you get credit for it. But it just seems we're kind of putting the cart before a horse. That's just kind of problematic, you know. But I would love to see you do public art and I would love to be able to give you credit for it. Don't know how to assess how much credit though.

What is the impact on the timeframe of the project if we don't have enough points?

And

No, I mean, so to answer your question, Bobby, I mean, we're close to the end of our due diligence period here. So we are running out of time. And I mean, to Nisa's point, we thought that this could be approved based on what's done in the past, that this could be improved like this and we could bring the artwork forward later.

I can appreciate due diligent periods. I mean, time and money is always on the line in making a project work. There is a possibility that the public art is the only outstanding issue for a project. I don't know, I'm sure you're over 20 million. I don't how big your project is. That's a sizable piece and I think this could be good for the community subject to hearing what the homeowners have to say about their various issues. I think there should be a way to accommodate Ira's concern about public art. That is, we shouldn't be able to take it on blind faith. There's gotta be a process where the city has the right to review it and approve it. And it sounds like there is something downstream at minimum, the art commission, which is really their job. And if we give them three points, subject to the Art Commission, I can hear Ira saying, well, maybe we're punting a little bit here. We have to approve it first. But given the size of the project and given the time already invested, I wouldn't mind giving it three points of that as what is required to get the project done. done subject to the homeowners talking um so we can move forward

i i also well i don't know if you want to hear from me again i i don't want to be a broken record but but i i understand the due diligence part i do a lot of development work in my private practice You know, sometimes you have to get an extension of that due diligence from the seller. And very often if you're down to just this one issue that you have to get through, you can do that. I don't know what the public comments are either. So I'm going to put the cart before that horse either. But at the same time, I just feel stuck. I mean, I don't want to be disingenuous about assigning points to something I've never seen. Yeah.

I think the number one thing that we're seeing here right now is there's a problem with the point system, right? I mean, I remember when this whole thing was created. I've been here for a while. And to me, you can't put the cart before the horse. Just saying you get three points for art without seeing the art is totally... foreign to me, especially coming from an arts background. Do I trust that you would do art? Yes, probably. But I think we're just seeing a flaw in the system right now. And I don't want to hold up a development based on that. I think it's a flawed issue, but I would rather see that area be developed than not be developed. And that's my final word on that point. I

hope

the audience as

well. Can I jump in here for one second? I agree with Carolyn that the point system is very flawed, but the reality is there's a project before us. There's people, homeowners here who want to have a say. I think the project is at a point where we go up and down on it. And given the reality that Carolyn says that I agree that the point system is flawed, our job is to deal with it the best we can and fit it in reality. And again, I think the reality is we have a system to really handle the art uh, art, uh, piece, give them three points. And I think, uh, the city is protected, which is in the big picture. That is our job to make sure that the city's interest in public art is protected. And even if the point system right now doesn't allow maybe the, you know, the clear remedy, I think we can make it work so that we can move forward.

Yes. Yes, my name is Keith Kramer. I live at 308 North Brentwood here in Clayton. I think this is a fantastic project. It's just what we need here in Clayton is bringing in housing other than apartments and it will provide additional housing for the workforce that will see moving in into the two new office buildings that are under construction. The plan is fantastic. I mean, it's a curved building. And I know there was some discussion about what it looks like. Well, the building blends in with the existing brick here in Clayton. That's one thing that we have going for this community is the way it looks. Do we really want a building that has chrome and neon on it? I don't think very many residents would go along with that. So the design looks good. It's very pleasing to me, at least. In terms of the artwork, I'd kind of like to weigh in on that one. It's hard to request somebody to provide what their artwork's going to look like when you don't even know what the exterior of the building is going to look like. So I would hope that you would take that in consideration when you're assigning the points, and Ira, when you're thinking about should it have any points and how to kick it down the road for further observation. Once you get an idea of what the building looks like, then they can come in with art that would blend in and work well with the design. alternatively, I'd ask that you consider what other uses might be useful on this site. It's zoned commercial. Would you approve a McDonald's if they came in and wanted it since it's already zoned commercial? Would you approve a high-rise office building which might put the residents behind it into the shadows? That's all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you.

My name is Christine Connell and I live at 23 Brighton Way. A couple of things to say, there's simply not enough parking. There's just not enough street parking, I don't think. I look at my street today, almost every day, there's a lot of people on my street parking, landscape trucks, service providers, and it's pretty full. I look at the weekend and I love seeing the fact that our street, Brighton Way, Toptown Way and Parkside are full because these are all people taking their kids to the park, watching their kids play games. That's what that street parking should be used for. Shell Park is a gem and we need to keep it so everyone is comfortable using it. And I just don't think there's enough parking. And I think all these extra cars coming in and out of the garage is just going to be a problem. And we're told, okay, yeah, we've got an agreement with the garage. Okay, I'd like to know how many spaces in the garage can... can be used? Is there going to be a cost for those, for people to use them? What times of day can they use them? I mean, we can't just say we've got an agreement with the garage. I mean, that's not going to cut it, at least not for me. I look at the fitness center. You know, you've got not only the clients coming to the fitness center, where are they going to park? You've got the trainers that work there. You've got all people that work in the building. That's a big thing. And I just don't think there's enough parking. And I, you know, I've been told by the developer of the condominium that I live, there are a number of things have been taken care of that we've worked out, you know, the noise situation. It really wasn't. And it's not enough for me to be told we had a consultant with the noise and it's going to be okay. It's not enough for me to hear that, okay, there's street parking and there's garage, but we've got an agreement. That's not enough. I mean, we don't know if that's been done or not. And the noise on the roof, come on, I just can't see how you're going to have, and it's going to be more than 42 units because you've got to have AC units for for the places on the first floor. And so there's going to be more than that. I really want to see how that's not going to be really noisy.

Thank you.

My name is Peter Smith. I also live at 23 Brighton Way and I'm a member of the board of directors of the Delmonico Condominium Association located at 23 Brighton way. First, I'd like to say that David and Steve have been professionals and gentlemen, and they have listened. And I appreciate that because not all developers in Clayton are professional and gentlemanly. But one of the concerns I have is that the issues that my neighbor Christine mentioned, and I have some of my own, once the building is done and it's turned over to the owners, Midas Capital just goes away. They dissolve that corporation. And so if If there are issues with the landscaping, if there are issues with noise from the air conditioning units, it's just too bad. So I think that as much time as you all are spending on public art, I would ask you to consider the bigger picture. The bigger picture is that while yes, that site needs to be developed, it's commercial for a reason and it's low rise for a reason. This property is a, I think a nice looking building, which would be appropriate in many places in Clayton, but not there. It's too big. It's like somebody is building a battleship in your backyard. And I appreciate that they've attempted to set it back a little more, but it's going to loom over our condominium as well as the other buildings that it's going to back up to in a pretty significant way. It doesn't need to be a 15 story building to loom over our buildings. So I think the size, the scale is wrong for that location. The evergreens that somebody congratulated, I believe are our evergreens at 23 Broughton Way. I haven't seen their landscape plan so maybe they have proposed some evergreens as well but I heard Bald Cypress Those evergreen trees are ours, 16 of them that we planted 16 years ago. And that unfortunately the surveying contractor for Midas came and hacked all the, a lot of the lower limbs off. We've reached a settlement with Midas over that, but they're not the evergreen trees they were before this project began. So I'm not as confident that the landscaping is going to be sufficient to mitigate the intrusion of this building on our property. Also, I did not see, I'm not a professional so I can't read those diagrams, but I didn't see in the artist rendering, I didn't see the power lines that are on the easement between their property and ours. And there's been discussion that I've had with the gentleman at Midas about burying those, power lines underground well to do that you would have to cut down the 16 evergreen trees there isn't any other way to do it so uh that's a i'd like to know more about i'd like you all to learn more about what exactly is going to happen to those evergreen trees because there are trees not not midas capitals as if i understand the plan correctly I would certainly echo Christine's concerns about parking. We have, I would say, I've been trying to notice since this meeting was scheduled, we have typically two or three landscape truck trailer arrangements on Brighton Way every day in the spring. And so where are those, Tractor trailer is going to park to service the landscape of this building. I think they're going to park on Parkside, Brighton, maybe. I'm not sure where, but I don't think they're going park in front of that building. There aren't enough parking spaces to accommodate them, much less Charter and Ameren and Laclede Gas and AT&T and the plumbers and the electricians and everybody else who service these buildings. that's a lot of people living in a very small area, and there's going to be multiple service trucks there every day. And they're not going to park in a parking garage across the way or valet at the hotel. So nothing has been done to satisfy that problem as far as I can tell. There's no street light for crossing on the Forsyth curve I frequently cross the intersection at Parkside and Forsyth, and you take your life in your hands when you cross that street. So now we're going to have all these cleaning people and visitors and who knows parking across the street and across Forsyth. And how are they going to safely navigate across Forsyth to this building? I don't know how they're gonna safely do that. They're gonna jaywalk is what they're gonna do. And somebody could get hurt. I think that's not necessarily on a point scale, but it certainly is a consideration regarding safety of pedestrians in that building. If you can't safely cross the street, it isn't gonna matter what artwork is in front of the building. You're gonna get run over by a car trying to cross the street. I think that... If the building is allowed to go forward, I think you should give some serious thought to scaling it back. It's too big. It's too much. If that building were located on the commercial section of Maryland where all those charming little shops are, the Poshnosh and whatever, I think everybody who lives in Clayton Gardens would be here with pitchforks and torches saying there's no way you're going to put a four-story building up right in front of our residential area. So I'm not sure what makes a four-story building of that size and scale appropriate for a zone commercial section of Forsyth. So again, we understand it's going to be developed. We understand it has to number out and make sense for the developer, but this project is too big. It needs to be scaled back. Thank you.

Anyone else here in the council chambers? Come on up. Good evening, my name

is Preston Fancher. I'm at 51 Topton Way. We walk quite a bit from our condo into Clayton, and it's one of the beauties of living in Clayton. The struggle is going down Forsyth. It just is a mess through there. So I don't think there's any disagreement that it needs to be updated. But I personally feel that a high-end condo development is much better than retail or an apartment complex. So to me, the application seems to be very appropriate for the city. That's good for business. And I personally think the curvature that they've kind of followed the road, hard to see on a flat drawing, but I think it'll look really nice and it'll make that area look much better. I realize there's some concerns, but I just think from my perspective, it looks like a very nice project and well-designed. So I'd be happy to see it there.

My concern is that the, I'm sorry, Elizabeth on Brighton Way. My concern is that I don't know what the total square footage for this new building is going to be, but 1,050 square feet for the one piece of retail to make this complex, a mixed use complex seems a little ridiculous. It seems like it's a token effort at making mixed use. And I hear a lot from this organization, not just this particular committee, but from the mayor and every other elected official that the more people we can bring into Clayton, They'll be wanting all these restaurants and they're gonna want shops and they're gonna wanna be able to buy shoes in Clayton. But when you only demand a thousand square feet to provide any of those things, when in every effort you make in rebuilding, building new, replacing, you're taking out more than you're gonna put back in because it's just going, it's the way it is. You're taking out restaurants in the hopes that maybe somebody will pay higher rent for 1,000 square foot place to put in a restaurant. So I would like to know what the percentages of or the ratio is of square footage for retail and for residential in this building we're discussing. Thank you.

One last

comment. If this, everything goes through, where are the workers going to be parking? They need to have designated parking for the construction workers. Right now, all the workers are parked in the, with the building they're going to tear down. They're parked in that parking lot in the back. Many of them are. every day. Well, that's going to be not available. So where are all the people that are working on this building going to park? And that's going to a big decision to make. It's not only going to be the everyday workers, but it's going to be all sorts of deliveries and all that kind of stuff. So I just wanted to bring that up as well. Thank you.

see any hands up in the attendees list. Is that correct? That's correct. David or Steve,

So these, I thank you for your comments because I've told you this before. I do appreciate and I respect it very much. So as far as the parking that's at the site, that's parking at these two spots now, that's the construction guys at Forsyth Point. Their parking deck will be done so those construction workers can park at the site. Okay, that's what the plan is. So we're not tearing the buildings down until, those workers can move to their job site. The power lines in the back, this is a conversation we had at the neighborhood meeting also. And I was the one who brought it up because I was concerned about the uh, cities requiring us to bury the lines. Okay. And, um, there, they have a lot of mature trees in that right of way that are either going to die or we're going to destroy if we have to do that. And so, um, a con that was a concern of mine also was for 200 feet behind these buildings, should we be burying the lines? Uh, so I think that's, that's something to consider. Um, the, um, There is a very small amount of retail in our space, that is true. Originally we had proposed zero retail. I mean, that was our original proposal was that we were gonna do completely 100% condos. We're required to have some mixed use and so there is some mixed use, right? And so that is true. What else was it? What's that? construction parking. I mean, so the residence center across the street that we are building, we have a hundred parking spots up on the ninth floor that our construction guys park in for that residence in. So we would do the same thing for this one. We will park them in that garage, that big triangle garage up on the top floor. The gentleman is correct. There is no walkway across at this location. So that is an accurate statement. But our intention is to have the construction guys park in the garage across the street, just like they're doing now for the residents in construction. Yeah. So... So we are four stories. The buildings behind us are three and a half, is kind of what the buildings are behind us. If you have, do you have my, can you access my file again? I can show you the difference in the heights, I think. I need to get

to my flash drive. We're just over 53 feet. Let's

just go with that.

Can you talk into the microphone?

Sorry. So hopefully you can see, Ira and Carolyn, you can see that. But this is the one on the right would be our new building, right? And then the one on the left is the buildings behind us. All right. So yes, we're four stories. Yes, we start out a little bit higher than our neighbors behind us. but we're only because of their pitched roof and the fact that they have people up on that fourth floor, we're only 10 feet taller probably. We're not significantly taller than the neighbors behind us.

That was one of the reasons that we chose to go with a flat roof building was to try to get the overall height of our structure to be more in keeping with the surrounding buildings to the west.

And just to be perfectly honest, it economically doesn't work with three stories. Okay. So, I mean, that's just the reality of it is too. Right. So. No, I understand. I appreciate that. Yeah. I'm just being honest.

Anything else? I'm good. So thank you.

The inclusion of the two bike racks. The two bike racks.

they already on the list?

I thought the bike racks were already on the list of recommendations.

Ira, I had read them into my staff report, but they weren't listed out at the end of the staff report, so I think that's where it wasn't picked up, but Yes, we would want that as a condition.

Oh, absolutely.

Can I ask for clarification? The bike racks, are they to be public bike racks or in the facility to be used by the occupants?

They have to be in the facility and approved by Public Works.

Okay, in the facility to use by the occupants of the building? Yes. Okay.

There is a per unit bike rack requirement. So for every 20 units, one bicycle rack is required. That can be located within the parking garage. They're not always located within the parking Garage. That's kind of up to you to explore.

So we can designate where to parking.

Yes.

I would just add on that condition for public art advisory, where to go that route and provide the conditional points. Let's make sure we have in there with Board of Aldermen approval. It would make a recommendation to the Board of Aldermens.

Yeah, David, I think my biggest concern, I guess, really is that the Board of Aldermen will look at what we've decided or what we think and take it as kind of a sign-off on what's been presented. I kind of want to make sure that the public guard has understood that We don't, you know, if the board is willing to assess three points, but there has to be something in there that says, you know, that this, we haven't seen it. We don't know what it looks like. We're not recommending it, you know. We're willing maybe to give three points to it just to go to the next stage with their commitment that they will provide something that will be worth at least three points. I mean, maybe something like that I would feel better about. You know what I mean?

I agree. I'm not sure exactly how to word that, but that would be the intent is to have the board reaffirm at a later date that whatever art's presented after the PAC recommendation meets the the board's expectations, or at least the board's expectations at the time they approved the PUD. So how we word that out, we could have, we'll have the attorney work on it for just a minute and come up with that condition or the best wording for it. But that would be the intent of that condition.

Thanks.

I believe that you can go forward with the step back motion. And I am just working on the language for the condition on the public art, which would come later then.

I think we all gave our comments. Or at least I did.

No, but I'll make a motion to waive the upper floor step back requirement.

Aye.

Just a question for staff. Would it be helpful if we itemize those points just to make it clear in the recommendation of the board? go down the list with three, five, one, four, five, three, the way we went through with our, I just kind of put down the consensus numbers. But I think that would be sort of helpful to send on. I don't know if that works better than an average number or

not. Sure. I'll just go ahead and read out the averages since I had those written down. So for 405, .1380B, which was architectural significance, three points. 405.1380B3, provision of new or enhanced public infrastructure, 4.42 points. 405 .1380B5A-H, sustainable building design, one point. 405. 1380B6, green infrastructure, 4.14 points. 405.1380B10, inclusion of a below-grade parking facility, 4.8 points. 405.1300B12, public art, that comes out to an average of three points.

Yes, that's correct.

Ready? Sure. Okay. I will make a motion to recommend approval of the rezoning and plan unit development to the Board of Aldermen with these seven conditions contained in the packet and the following additional conditions. Number eight would be to provide the two bicycle racks on the property. Number nine, remove invasive species and cultivars from the landscape plan and replace them with natives. or I'm not sure what the word would be, the regular species of trees. Number 10 would be to provide an acoustical study to staff. And number 11, the applicant shall submit a specific plan or rendering of the public art which shall include at a minimum, a monumental piece at the entry and several complimentary pieces along the front pedestrian walk to the Public Art Advisory Commission and the Board of Aldermen for approval. In the event that such artwork does not merit at least three points and the applicant does not make timely changes, the PUD development plan shall be reconsidered by the Board of Aldermen. And I would also clarify that the Plan Commission's recommendation for points would be 20.36 total points.

Chairman Steve Lichtenfeld.

City Manager David Gipson.

City Manager David Gibson.

Yay.

Carolyn Gatiss. Yay. Robert Dunlow.

Yay.

Helen DiFate. Yay. Kami Waldman. Yay. Ira Berkowitz.

Ellen DeFate. Yay. Amy Waldman. Yay. Ira Berkowitz.

I

was

telling Steve that you should make the motion

on

this. You were ready to step up, I said.

I know this is one of the sweetest. really appreciate it. Thank you. um okay Okay, awesome. Yeah. Do you know how hard it is to go to school? Thank you. You know what? Thank you. You're scared. Thank you. Hey

friends, we'd

I'm actually going to read this one, Steve.

I'll just do a summary of the staff report. The proposed structure provides a nice blend of features from adjacent structures, including facade elements and building materials. The form of the building follows the curve of Forsyth Boulevard, resulting in a variation of appearance as a person travels along the street or sidewalk. The setback along with landscape buffer will help mitigate height difference for the buildings to the west and enhances the transition from residential to commercial uses. The primary building material for the proposed home is a taupe and gray brick. The secondary materials architectural cast stone. The facade design features are compatible with the surrounding character. Many design features mimic elements of nearby buildings and the Topton Brighton Urban Design District, which is located west of the property. The building features recessed balconies for the residential units. Similar balconies are featured on the hotel under construction and on the condominium buildings to the west. The entries for both vehicles and pedestrians are accentuated by asymmetrical stone surrounds. The architectural design of the building is also enhanced through the incorporation of different brick patterns and the cast stone bands that are featured in intervals along the facade. The building materials complement materials found in the surrounding area. The use of cast stone panels along with the window openings will help to break up the longer facade and add visual appeal. The decorative metal guardrails are proposed along exterior stairs and first floor terraces. Glazed guardrail systems are proposed for the recessed balconies along all elevations. Staff recommends that the portion of the metal guardrail proposed along the northern property line adjacent to the loading area and transformer is revised to be a solid fencing to provide screening of this area from the public right-of-way. Staff is of the opinion that the proposed design conforms to the requirements of the zoning regulations and is compatible with surrounding character. Staff recommends approval of the following condition. One, revise the guardrail material along the northern property line to be a solid screen to screen the loading and transformer area.

Yeah, I've given the presentation. I don't know what else to say. Okay, so if you have any questions about the architectural review, I'll be happy to answer them. I don't have any other material to present.

caught me. So that unit actually on the second floor will change to a two bedroom and they have a balcony off the north face. And then that becomes a two story space at the entry. So it's I think at this point we had like just a typical floor plan, but that would be a two story space as you enter the entry. Does that make

Changing it from a three bedroom to a two bedroom.

and there may be a buried den or a little office space or

To the fact you build something that looks like. Alan.

Yes, I especially like the brick patterning that is used. And I believe before we saw that there were two different types of brick, two textures. I think that, I love to see that. It really it's reminiscent of the old but it's a very contemporary use. And I like adding in the stone. And two, I will add the fact that all four sides work together. Too many times we see there's a very definite front and maybe wrap it around the side a bit, but then change the back to something much less expensive and just much less rich. So I like what you've done with materials and the overall building.

Thank you. Amy.

I also like the material selection with the different textures going across the front facade and actually throughout all of them. I agree with Steve, I like the window spacing and it's not just all stacking and looking the same on all four floors. I think when you're walking past it or driving past it, it will help with the curvature of the building as well. I did have a question. just about meeting some of the criteria. It was just creating the, so like number seven, for example, it was incorporating green space, pedestrian connections, pedestrian gathering spaces, street furniture, and other elements of active pedestrian areas. How is that being incorporated?

Yeah, so our front entryway, the kind of monumental entryway with the monumental artwork is kind of our nod to try to bring the pedestrian community into what would be private space. And so that would be that space. Try to have some site furnishings in that area to kind of encourage.

Like people walking by could sit and relax, okay. Because the other one is number eight is like creating protection to pedestrians such as overhangs, awnings and canopies as means to encourage pedestrians activity along the street.

That we've got a nice landscape design that has street trees and a canopy overhead, but there isn't protection.

So like the front entrance, it is set back a little bit. Yes.

And that was to try to achieve some protection for people approaching the doorway so that they can be buzzed in under protection before they enter the building.

That's all for me. I'm

here. I'm still thinking about it, but I'm still not awe-inspired. It still looks like a motel to me, and I'm going to say that over and over again. I'm sorry. I do like the entry, and I like the HAB-Masyn Moyer- extension of the entry piece um and I do like the curve. HAB-Massyn Moyer- But i'm just not feeling. HAB-Marie Slaughter.: : inspired like the rest of the board i'm sorry, but other than that, I have no other comments. PB Harmon Zuckerman, All

right, thank you. PB Harmon Zuckerberg,

Ira. Well, I feel like I'm invisible to Carolyn, obviously. I have had similar comments myself about the architecture itself. And I don't know how to improve it because I'm not an architect. So I don't know what to say other than, yeah, I just wish. I mean, part of me, I'm looking at the roofline even. It's like this straight, boring, forever roofline. I don't know. It's just not inspiring. So that's my comment.

David? I don't know that I have any additional comments. Beyond what others have said, I know that materials were brought up a few times, and I do think that's important here and something to be recognized. I think you're using quality materials on all four sides. I think this building will hold up really well over time. So that's definitely something you have going for it. Beyond that, kind of as alderman berkowitz had stated i'm not an architect and can't get too deep into the design but i think it looks good

thank you

like to ask that we standardize the directions of each side of the building. Because nothing is east, nothing is west, nothing is north, and nothing is south on that curve. So could we make it standardized that when you're talking east, you're talking about Forsyth? When you're talking west, you're talking Brighton Way? that when you're talking north, you're talking towards Straub's and when you're talking south, you're talking about the Bank of America building. Could I ask for that to be standardized so that we will all know what specific direction part of the building you're talking about in the future?

or anything? No, that aligns with how most of the report is written when it's not specified front or rear.

We do have one person in the attendee lists. I'll promote them now. You'll have to unmute yourself.

I'm Hank Winkleman. I'm not sure I can see you. I appreciate the incredible effort you're making in the discussion here. I think to a great extent, I'm very disappointed with the-

into the microphone. How do I? We hear you now. Do you hear me now? Yes. Wonderful. Wonderful. So I'll try and do it. So all of you know, I've lived in Clayton over 40 years and going through this intersection, either taking children to school or buying my groceries or buying a snack in one of the wonderful restaurants that have been on Maryland Walk and watching people walk across the street. And where do they walk across the street? And what is going to be the visual impact of the corner as I turn my car, as I approach it right or left? I think the architects have not engaged the true urban experience that's going to be created. And as an architect, I am incredibly disappointed with the lack of clarity of their graphics. And I am very, very concerned about the issue of traffic of cars that are going through this complicated intersection in which there's sort of the let's call it, road that curves immediately from Maryland up to Forsyth and exits people that have stopped at Straub's to pick up their groceries. And I imagine in the future all of the increased number of people that are walking along this wonderful sidewalk as they move back and forth. I think the urban encounter has not been created, and that is the responsibility that I've always looked for planning and Clayton to give a clarity of. And so the architects and the developers need to give clarity a full, complete study of this issue. Thank you very much.

I'll make a motion to approve with the staff recommendation.

Second.

To be determined, but we'll let you know.

No comment.

None.

I think I said

tonight, Steve. Thanks.

I agree with Ira. Thank you. Do you

No. I said enough. Thank you.

tonight.

Now, just the short overlap with Anissa is great. So sadly, we will be losing her. But I know she'll do great things in the future and look forward to continuing to work with all of you.

Thank you. I appreciate working with all of you. It really does make a difference when the board is really invested in the work that they're doing. No, I won't mention all of you individually, but Carolyn, I'll never look at a tree again without thinking of you probably. And every time I see a building under construction, I'll wonder what if it was like something in New Jeffery Yorg or Chicago and no difference to Bob. So I really appreciate working with all and I'll certainly stop by.

Thank you. I appreciate working with all of you. It really does make a difference when the board is really invested in the work that they're doing. No, I won't mention all of you individually, but Carolyn, I'll never look at a tree again without thinking of you probably. And every time I see a building under construction, I'll wonder what if it was like something in New York or Chicago and no difference to Bob. So I really appreciate working with all and I'll certainly stop by.

Well, Anissa, we appreciate you for sure. Good luck.

Anissa, you have been great. We really appreciate you and thank you for all your help with us. It's been a pleasure.