April 4, 2022 — Meeting Transcript

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Plain Commission ARB meeting for April 4th. If you have any mobile phones, please silence them now. If you need to use them, please exit the council chambers. And we're asking anyone here in the chambers to please not tune into the Zoom. When that happens in the room, we get audio feedback. So please do not do that. PB John Gerstle, Anyone either in the room or listening virtually if you wish to speak on any of the agenda items raise your hand and you'll be allowed in at the appropriate time or you'll be allowed up to the podium. PB John Gerstel, And before we go any further we'd like to welcome camey Waldman she's our new addition to the plane Commission a RB and it's her first night so welcome. Okay, we'll start with the

roll call. Here. Here. Here? Here.

Okay. We have meetings from the previous meeting on March 21st. Are there any changes to it?

Seeing none, do we have a motion?

Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, thank you. We'll start with old business item number one, and that's 906 South Merrimack.

Good evening, Anissa Camaro, principal planner with the city of Clayton. The 8601 square foot site is located on the east side of South Merrimack Avenue between Clayton Road and Watkins Drive. The property has a zoning designation of R2 single family dwelling district. On February 23 2022 the applicant requested that their proposal for modifications to the front elevation of the home be held pending further design changes. The applicant has since resubmitted and proposes to modify the front entry to the home with a new brick porch door and railings. When the project was previously before the architectural board in 2017, the home featured white double hung casement windows. Upon a site inspection by staff, a number of changes to the front elevation were discovered. These changes occurred under the prior developer prior to the purchase of the home by its current owners. The applicant is now proposing to replace the black door with a black pillow reserve double in swing wood door. A red brick porch covering is proposed with a dark gray black shingled roof to match the existing home. The porch cover will have rounded cutouts on all three sides and the proposed concrete porch will match the existing front porch with new black aluminum railings. Staff is of the opinion that the design and materials of the addition are compatible with the home and with the neighborhood character. And our recommendation is to approve as submitted.

Okay, thank you. Is the applicant here? Come on up. We'd like you to give us your name, spell the last name and make sure the microphone is green.

Okay. Hi, my name is Mike Garner. I'm here on behalf of my daughter Clara and son-in-law Nick who bought the house in December. Project has been in development for the last five years. I would like to say that we rescued the house and they want to move in June 1st. So as part of that project, we inherited a black entrance and windows, which probably would not have been what we wanted. So in order to make the house more aesthetically pleasing to the neighborhood and the owners, we plan to tear off the black pediment and the sides, put in a brand new door that was described. and then he says right up, and then also then build a brick porch out front of it to provide cover for people coming to the front door. So it'll require us to basically take the entire porch off, re-dig footings, put a new door in, and then come up from the ground there with the brick posts in front and the matching roof across that. I think from the pictures we provided, it aesthetically meets the requirements of the neighborhood. There are many homes in there that have black fronts, but we're pretty much stuck with that at this point. So asking for approval to move forward with the improvements.

Well, the addition of the front porch I think is well detailed. It fits in and I think it'll make the house have a much better three-dimensional character to it. Of course you do know it's over the building setback line but it is an open porch. The right up indicated rounded cutouts on all three sides. I see an arch cut out on the front but the sides appear to be flat.

Is that true? Yeah, Anissa was correct. We're gonna do the rounded archways on all three sides. We're not gonna go all the way to the porch with the brick though. It'll be a cutout all the way from the porch up and then we're gonna put the aluminum railings on two sides and then down the steps.

Just as the drawings show. Right. Looks good to me, but let's get comments.

Just when I was going.

I think it's terrific what you're doing, aesthetically improvement. And I hope your daughter and son-in-law appreciate it.

Ellen?

I like it. I think it's a good addition, and when it's raining, there's nothing like a porch.

Amy?

Yeah, I agree. I think it is a great addition. I used to live across from your house, 899 South Merrimack for years, and you're doing a fantastic job at updating that house. We did, yes. Yes, so great job, yes.

Are there any comments from anyone else in the audience?

No? There he is, OK. Steve, are you aware that I'm

on? Yeah, comments, Ira?

Oh yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of the board members. It's a great addition. and good luck and have a good life with it. Thank you.

Thanks. Anissa, any virtual hands up? No. Okay. We do have a staff recommendation to approve as submitted. We have a motion.

I move we approve the staff recommendation to approve the application as submitted.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, well, good luck with it. Thank you very much. We're eager to see the house completed and occupied. So welcome to the neighborhood.

You and me both. She's driving a hard bargain here in terms of getting it done. Thank you.

Okay, we'll move into new business now. And we'll take item one, that's 12 Richmore Drive.

The 18,300 square foot site is located on the east side of Ridgemoor Drive, south of its intersection with Harcourt Drive. The property is located within the Claverac Park neighborhood and has a zoning designation of R2 single family dwelling district. The proposed project consists of an 800 square foot addition to the attached garage with one story of the garage below grade. The proposed garage features a hydraulic car lift storage system which facilitates the movement of cars to the below grade addition. Atop the garage addition is a proposed stone terrace with metal railing. The project also includes several improvements to the site, including a new aggregate concrete walkway and driveway to match the existing stone-clad retaining walls and a stone planter with landscaping, as well as a new trash enclosure. Staff is of the opinion that the layout, form, and materials of the proposed project are compatible with the existing property and surrounding neighborhood. In terms of impervious coverage and landscaping, the existing impervious coverage on the site is 5,275 square feet or 29% impervious. 471 square feet of impervious coverage is being added for a proposed total impervious coverage of 32%. Trench drains are proposed at the basement level as well as on the stone terrace. The trench drain on the stone terrace is proposed to downspout to a flow well. The location and capacity of the flow well were not identified on the plan. Upon inquiry by staff, the applicant noted that the flow well is under evaluation but has yet to be determined. Staff's recommendation is to approve with two conditions to be addressed prior to issuance of the building permit. First, tree protection measures for trees along the southern property line shall be provided to staff. And second, any proposed stormwater mitigation, including a flow wall, shall be clearly identified on the site plan for staff's review prior to issuance of the building permit. That concludes my presentation.

Thank you. The applicant?

Yeah, my name is Rick Portia. Do

you have anything to add to the staff report?

Josh Talbot- Overall what we're trying to do is add garage capacity for our existing tuck under garage. Josh Talbot- So when we do this, the goal is to match everything exactly to the materials that are on the House so it's got kind of just typical and clever act part of the rubble stone foundation so. Josh Talbot – Our intention is to match it exactly so you can't tell that this was ever retrofitted to the House same goes for that retaining wall that's in front the. you know, the one that's there is kind of in poor repair. So we're going to replace that. In addition, that railing and the patio that's on top, we think that'll give a really nice visual back to the backyard and not be obstructive. There are other houses in the neighborhood that are like that. And I think that design looks really nice. So and that will match exactly to the existing wrought iron railing that's in the backyard currently. So the overall high level goal is to have everything match exactly to how it is at the house now.

I did walk down your driveway because I had a little confusion on how it was going to work. But if I understand it from the drawings and everything, you'll be excavating below your basement. Correct. And will that provide you with four or six car spaces?

It'll be four, and then we'll have a little bit of space in front of the two at the existing grade. I mean, you could shove another two cars in there theoretically, but our intention is to have four. There's a workshop space that's going to be there that I'm going to use where the current two car spots are now.

Yeah, we see that on the plan. Correct. Okay. So... What are you doing if water gets down into the lower level below the basement floor?

There's going to be a sump pump down there with a drain. So on, I don't know if it's on this, it should be marked on there. I think we're going to have, and that's what our civil engineer is going to, he's working on that as well. In that, I guess that's the southwest corner. I believe unless he places it elsewhere, we're going to And there'll have to be a special filter for that because it's going to be able to, like in case there was a oil leak or something from one of the cars. So yeah, that's the intention there for water.

That's on sheet A102A. Oh yeah,

that's right. It is right there. Yeah. I knew it was in there somewhere.

Well, it's a very creative solution. Thank you. And once it's finished and all the ground is put back, I don't think anyone will realize the amount of work you've gone through.

That's the idea. We wanted to hide everything and keep, you know, get some extra space.

Bob? What is your first name again? Rick. I don't know how to react to a hydraulic garage system in a residential house. I mean, it seems pretty drastic. Do you know anybody who's done it around here?

Not around here, but I do know people who have done it, yeah.

And I'm sure you considered not installing a hydraulic system, which I'm sure is very expensive with the excavation. And because you have motors, things can always go wrong. Did you ever try to configure a system where you could just not use it and be able to lighten the garage or something

like that? Yeah, we talked about this. We talked about making the new garage taller, but because we have a sunroom on the back with these nice windows that have a really nice view to the backyard, we struggle with how to tie it into the existing house and make it look architecturally appealing because of the age of the house and the way we want it. We didn't want to make the existing structure of the house any bigger So, cause we don't need the space necessarily on that, on the first floor. So part of the reason, part of the thing we really liked about the house is it has a lot of windows. So, and they're all original windows that are going to stay. So we wanted to not obstruct that and create, you know, some difficulty of trying to make that fit together with the existing part of the house. And we want to stay in Clayton. I mean, we, yeah, we could always move and build a bigger garage somewhere. I didn't want to build a big garage in the backyard either. So that's why my idea was to, dig into the ground and put them underground.

You have kids?

I do.

And how do you propose to make this safe for kids? so they can't just hit a button

uh so there's a key there's a key lock on the actual mechanism on the control board um on the because i thought about this a lot because i'm i specify you know i'm specifying this so there's also um a bump stop so at that point where there's like the concrete edge and then there's the metal platform that's coming down there's a bump stop so if something like if a hand got stuck in there it will shut it off so it'll stop it in place um Beyond that, there's also a, we have a laser curtain. So we do in our business, we do like industrial, we have a lot of industrial equipment and there's this, I don't know if it's a technical term for it, but it's a laser curtain. Basically there are four posts that'll go in the garage. And when a person breaks that plane, it shuts the lift down. So I think those three things key, like that I have to have the key physically in the machine and it's going to be mounted at whatever height that a child can't get to it. Obviously that the bump stop on the bottom, the lower platform and then um or both platforms rather and then the laser curtain i mean i'm sure yeah they're that i think those three things together are going to be what keep people safe when we're using it

just to make sure i understand are you having two hydraulic lifts for two cars correct

so it's two yeah when we started looking at this it was the cost of digging a hole eight feet wide versus 16 feet wide is not that different. So we have two independent lifts. They're both, they're independently controlled. Yeah.

I have nothing further. Ellen.

I think it's a very creative idea. And I see from the site plan A100A that you do have enough space if my car were underneath, if I'm the owner and the car I want to drive is on the bottom, I can pull one car out and then get my car out.

You're talking about in this, in which? If

Two cars are parked and you want to use the car on the lower level.

Yeah.

You do have space to pull.

Oh, forward.

Yeah. One car out and raise the other car.

Right.

Okay. I think it's very creative. You know, no other questions.

Amy. I

have to agree. I think it is very creative. I also like that the idea of a patio of not just like leaving it to, you know, just a roof of like utilizing that space and tying it into all the, you know, original stonework at the foundation of your house. So I think

it's great.

Thank you. Any other comments from the audience or from virtual? We do have Ira.

Sorry. Thanks for remembering me. Yes. Yeah, no, I mean, I, that's what whatever you know that's just above my pay grade to understand all that went has going into this so i will leave it to others um but it looks fine and it sounds fine and it's a great idea so that's uh it's okay with me okay

thanks

cyra

any virtual hands no Okay, we do have two conditions on the staff recommendation. Have you read them and do you agree with them?

I'm ignorant of like, I've not done this before. So what is that? How does that process work if you grant approval with the condition? How does that?

Assume we grant approval, then the conditions need to be addressed prior to issuance of the building permit. So not tonight, but before you receive a permit. And they are tree protection measures for trees along the southern property line shall be provided to staff. And any proposed stormwater mitigation, including the flow well, which was mentioned, shall be clearly identified on the site plan for staff's review prior to issuing the building permit.

Okay, I do have a question about the storm, like, because we're not the existing, I have existing drains that are there now that the previous homeowner put in when they redid the driveway, probably 10 years ago. Since we're not changed, I mean, we're having the civil engineer do the sump pump design, but is, since we're not changing the, like the impervious area, or if that's the correct term, do we want to then say, okay, we need to add a flow, like, a stormwater mitigation plan or like what's the, what's the determinant for that? If that's not an ignorant question, like if it's not changed, like if the, cause I've got, I've got the existing drains. I mean, we're reorienting them because we're putting them in a, in a channel format rather than, um, the one that I have in my, in my driveway, but what's the.

I think you would have your civil engineer take a look at it first. Okay. And, um, look at the quantity of the water, where it's going, because you certainly don't want it to run across your driveway and onto the neighbor's property. Right, okay. Because I believe it is sloping to the south.

Yeah, it sort of bottoms out in our driveway, I think that it's the low point, but yeah, it's, yeah.

And I believe there's a, I see one drain in your driveway.

Yeah, we have that drain and then there are also drain. Well, I mean from the roof there are those other two, but yeah, there's just the one drain in the driveway. That's correct.

Just looking at it, I don't see where there'd be much, if any, additional water, but... I don't think you should take our-

Yeah, so I guess the intent is there. You want my civil engineer to say, hey, I've looked at this. This is what the water load is going to be. We're okay with this drain, whatever the drain plane is.

I think that would be the prudent way to go.

That's fair.

Any other comments? And now you do know the two conditions.

I

do, yeah.

Do we have a motion?

I move we adopt the staff recommendation to approve the application with one condition to be addressed prior to issuance of the building permit. Condition number one, tree protection measures for trees along the Southern property line shall be provided to staff and two, any proposed storm water mitigation including a flow well shall be clearly identified on the site plan for staff's review prior to issuances of the building permit?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay. All righty. Good luck with it. Thank you. When will you start construction?

Our goal is to start as soon as we can. This summer is our goal. The contractor who we're talking to is finishing my parents' house right now, so they're going to finish in May, so we hope to start after that.

Okay. Good luck with It.

All righty, thank you. It's a

creative solution.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Okay, let's move on to item two in new business and that would be 600 Francis

Place. The 16,271 square foot property is located on the north side of Francis Place just west of the city's eastern boundary. The project consists of the installation of three retaining walls to replace the existing failed retaining walls. The planned location of the walls are along the existing driveway, along the front porch and along the Western side of the home. Due to the steep grade of the property along the driveway, the wall along the driveway will reach a height of 12 feet with the length of the wall being around 24 feet. The walls are proposed to be constructed from vintage six Rockwood modular block. The project also includes the removal and replacement of the existing cracked concrete walkways with modular pavers. The architectural review board prefers the use of masonry walls and front yards. However, modular block walls are allowed if they include three different block sizes, a varying color pattern, and tumbled edges. The design and material of the retaining walls feature varying shades of gray and light red-brown blocks comprised of different sizes of square and rectangular pieces. Staff's recommendation is to approve as submitted.

Thank you. Is the applicant here?

Okay.

Well, let's hold this until the end of the meeting and then make a decision. In that case, we'll go on to item 3, 8064 Watkins Drive. Is the applicant here? Okay. Thank you.

The 8,028 square foot site is located on the south side of Watkins Drive just east of its intersection with Brentwood Boulevard. The applicant is proposing to construct a 991 square foot addition on the west elevation of the home towards the rear. A similar project was reviewed and approved by the Architectural Review Board on August 5, 2019. Due to issues obtaining a contractor as well as complications from the pandemic, the approved addition was not constructed. The applicant has made some changes to the addition, including the replacement of the brick exterior with hardy board siding. The primary change between the addition approved in 2019 and the current proposal is the replacement of the primary exterior brick material with the hardy board siding. For the architectural review guidelines, exterior wall material is limited to brick and stone. These primary wall materials shall equal at least 75% of each elevation. The replacement of the brick exterior with hardy board siding on the second floor addition results in the secondary hardy board siting material exceeding the 25% allotment on the rear and left facades. The majority of homes in Davis Place, in particular those on Watkins Drive closer to Brenwood Boulevard, are comprised of red brick. As one moves east along Watkins, more of a mixture of materials becomes apparent, including vinyl and stone. It should be noted that no hardy board siding is proposed on the front elevation. The most visible elevation to the public would be the left elevation, which would be visible entering the neighborhood from the west side of Watkins Drive. With the exception of the Hardy board siting in excess of the percentage of secondary materials allowed, staff is of the opinion that the design and materials of the proposed addition are compatible with the existing structure and the neighborhood character. Staff's recommendation is to approve with three conditions to be addressed prior to issuance of the building permit. First is that the rear and left elevations shall be revised so that no more than 25% of the elevation is comprised of a secondary material in conformance with the architectural review guidelines. Second, tree protection fencing shall be installed along the drip line of the existing trees located adjacent to the proposed construction. Tree protection fence locations shall be shown on a site plan. And third, screening around the existing air conditioning units shall be installed. That concludes my presentation.

Anissa, was that for 8064 Watkins?

Yes.

It's different than the report that was in the packet. We had two conditions on this one.

That is odd. It should be with three conditions, with a third being screening around the existing air conditioning units.

You have three conditions? And what is the date on the top? April 4th? Oh, I have August 5th of 2019.

Oh, you know what? That's the old report. Maybe the new one isn't in. Correct.

Bob has the new one. Okay. Old one. Sure. Oh yeah, if I could.

It was a little

longer than the one I had from three years ago. Okay, we'll continue and welcome. Sorry about that delay.

My name is Amber Reynolds. I'm the owner. We are looking to do the addition to even out the symmetry of the house to gain master bedroom and bathroom, additional office space and storage. We are concerned about the aesthetics of the front of the house and anything you can see from the street and want to do matching brick on those sides that are visible. Due to structural limitations, of weight bearing, we would like to do hardy board on the rear side that would go over the garage. We have attached visuals from our, where you can see from our neighbors and our backyard, and no one would be able to see the portion that falls below that 75% threshold. And we've discussed this with our neighbors as well and gain their support for lowering the threshold level as they wouldn't be able to see it from any where that they're

at. That's it. Okay, thank you. I think here again, we have a creative solution. And it will make the house much more functional than what it had been. But I do have some questions. The addition over the existing office PB John Gerstle, That will that be flush with the projected portion of the House that comes out over the front door or be a recess behind it. PB,

Lupita D Montoya, So. PB, Lupia D Montoya, I the front of the House will be completely there's a. PB, Lupica D Montoya, offset porch and the entire front of the House of the flush and all of the sides will match the existing lower structure. Because it does go, that existing structure comes out, goes back in and then comes out again. And we will match it horizontally to the existing.

Okay, that's how I'm reading the drawings. That the front porch will, the porch and the second floor, I think there's a bathroom, will be projected, but on the east or the west side of it, they are back roughly a foot.

Right.

I have no problem with the hardy board on the second floor above the garage. I understand the structural need for that. Let's go around, Bob.

I'm no engineer, but did you have like a civil engineer or somebody work with you to tell you that you need centene type steel pillars?

Yeah, we had peering done when we originally purchased the house with the addition in mind that we've worked with Kent McPeak, our civil engineer, and to make sure that the foundation can match that. But the original, there's a original part is two stories. And then there's a part that's a single story. And the single story was done, it has brick and block. And so that's why we have to go in with the steel there, instead of just doing a wood framing. Instead of if it was eight inch brick, then you could do a wood framing, but we have to do the steel in order to make sure that it is sound.

Does that

make

sense? And if I could just, I know I have you here, but David, in your recommendations, are you saying that the amount that they want with the siting is excessive by ordinance and therefore is a problem?

The architectural view guidelines stipulate that no more than 25% may be a secondary material, which is not brick or not stone. The ARB does have the discretion to waive or lower or increase the guidelines as necessary. Does that answer your question?

Right. Okay. So we have the discretion to allow it. Yes. Okay. And your neighbors I see have signed on saying they have no problem with it.

Correct. You can actually see, we attach pictures of what you can see from their yards that they won't actually be able to see where we are using the addition that exceeds that 25%. And as

I look at your house in the way that you would like us to see it, if I look at the front, will I see just brick?

Yeah, the front is 100%. If I look on

the left side of the house, will I see siding

or

right side?

The west or the east?

Either side.

You won't be able to see the east side at all from the front. The west side, you will be able to see a small portion that's just over the garage, but we are going to do brick all the way back to the garage on the second story.

Okay. And on the

rear? That is, will be that you can't see it all. You will be, there's Hardy Ford back there. This is page four of the attached is because we back up to Forest Park Parkway. So we don't actually have for your neighbors.

Right, right, right. And there are other homes near you with siding?

There are. We've also attached.

I saw pictures of them. I just wanted to make

sure I

was

looking

at the right pictures. Okay. Yeah, Bob, my house is on page eight. They're all over the place.

Thank you. I have no other questions.

Ellen?

I think the amount of siding on the west and the east elevation bothers me. And maybe it's because you've gone to great lengths to add brick, matching brick, for a good portion of the addition. And structurally on the east and west side to the garage, there should be no issue.

I believe our architect is on the phone as well if you'd like a comment from him. But it is because the garage was separate at the time and the footings and everything isn't there to do the additional steel and then the weight of the brick. If you did brick, you'd have to do additional... You'd have to refoot everything and do steel is my amateur understanding of it.

Okay, I understand over the garage door opening that that would be a hefty piece of steel to carry the brick above if you did that. Now, just on those two elevations, it... bothers me. Everything else looks great, and I'm glad you are able to find the brick to match. That's not easy.

When we did our previous project, we had to add some bricks, and it took about 30 samples to find the match, but we know where to go now.

A good mason can do it.

We do have your architect on the line. And Mr. Duncan, do you have anything you'd like to add?

I could answer any of your technical questions about the siding or the steel we're putting inside the house. What's happened is there's a four-inch backer concrete masonry unit, concrete block. It's only four inches thick. And then there's four inches of brick in front of it for a brick veneer. So what we were having to do on this particular project, we're going to have to put in what's called like a superstructure of steel posts inside those walls. You won't see them from the exterior, but they're going to carry that addition above so that those four inch or eight inch walls below those existing masonry walls don't carry any of the weight of the addition. The additions more or less is supported by these steel frames. So when we go back to the garage where we're having this sided We were hoping that we could save some of our, perhaps some of our construction costs with where they've happened now that we're after the pandemic. And used some siding in those locations to offset some of

this steel we're having to use now.

So the, Mr. Duncan, the section through the garage number three, S-102. Right. Oh, okay. That follows what you were saying with the block and the brick on the exterior. And then we see the new bearing wall that you're putting in. So is that a new footing?

There'll be pier footings or pad footings inside, inside the house. And as well as actually we're going to try to use with our structural engineer, we're going to use the existing footings and put a pipe column on top of his existing footing. But once again, architecture review board wise, you won't see any difference from the exterior.

Okay, so all the additional structure is internal. That's correct. PB Harmon Zuckerman. Did everyone

find that on s 102 PB Harmon Zuckerton. So in effect, that will not at the garage interfere with the usable space in the garage. Is that correct.

Well, those corners will be taken up with a pipe column. PB Harmon Zuckerson. So it's it's not a very big pipe comments probably like four to six inches, but there'll be a column.

Inside the garage, yes. Okay.

I was just curious about the new foundation and footing. It looks like it really isn't going to protrude very far.

No,

no.

But it is construction labor for sure. Yes. Thank you. So a couple of last things. I'm sorry, everyone. We'll never see that back facade for the garage. I mean, the only people that we'll see were the people that are using the garage itself. Many times in these communities, we'll use hardy siding, a quality product. It's not vinyl. And try to be a little bit more economical on those backsides that aren't public. And so what we're asking for tonight is that permission.

Okay, anything further? That's all I have. Okay, thank you. Amy?

What color would that hardy siding be?

Dark. We're looking to make it dark so that it is less noticeable anywhere that it may be.

So like similar tones to the brick or?

Yeah, it's available. We can paint it any color that you would require, but we were thinking there's a dark charcoal that matches the existing, some of the existing architectural elements.

Okay. Yeah, because similar to what Helen said, like this west elevation, because I did drive by the house just to look at it. And like when you do come up off Brentwood, like up Watkins, like that west elevation is very prominent.

Like the side where you got, like that you can actually really see is going to be brick because that's over the regular part of the house. The part that's hardy board is the part that's, offset in the back of the garage.

Right, and I mean, maybe the trees haven't fully gotten all their leaves right now, but you, it's, I mean, you can see it, it's evident, but so I'm just kind of...

That's actually, that side does meet the 75% requirement. Right,

so I was just thinking, like, as far as color-wise, because a lot of your examples were white, and I was thinking that would just be such a stark, obvious thing, so if you're painting it, you know, something a little bit toned down, I think that's a good choice in that, so.

Okay. PB Harmon Zuckerman, Ira. PB Harmon Zuckerton, Any comments.

PB David Ensign, No I don't actually it sounds like a lot of good questions have been asked and i'm satisfied with the responses, of course i'd rather not have citing but you know if it if it's consistent and conforms to the Community, and there are others just like it. PB David Ensigne, Then I understand the situation so i'm okay.

Okay, thank you. David, any further comment? No, sir. We do have three conditions, although before we go on, any hands up virtually?

No.

Thank you. Well, we do have three conditions. I'd like to add a fourth and that would be for you to submit both a sample of the Hardy board siding with a sample of the new brick. We know you can't bring in a sample of the existing brick to staff before the issuance of a building permit. Any further questions from the audience? Any further questions from The Board? Yes.

Are we prepared to delete the first requirement as we go forward? Because that is preventing deciding to go on, let's say, the rear garage. Yes.

I am comfortable removing condition one, because I feel only the south side exceeds greatly the 25%.

Other comments? Okay. Do we have a motion?

When they say okay just before I make the motion when there's a sample of a hardy vinyl siding that will come to. The building of Commission off, you know it's right okay. I hereby move that we approve the staff recommendation to prove the application. with three conditions as follows prior to the issuance of a building permit. Number one, tree protection fencing shall be installed along the drip line of the existing trees located adjacent to the proposed construction. Tree protection fence location shall be shown on a site plan. Number two, screening around the existing air conditioning units shall be installed. And number three, that the applicant shall submit a sample of the hardy vinyl siding and a sample brick before issuance of a building permit.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Thank you so

much. You're on the way.

We're happy to see this after three years of waiting. Well,

it would have been done sooner if then there was COVID. So here we are.

Good luck with it.

I think we're ready for 144 North Bemiston.

The 8,117 square foot site is located on the east side of North Houston Avenue, mid block between Pershing Avenue and Maryland Avenue. The proposed project consists of painting the exterior of the residence, the replacement of all windows on the home, including the enlargement of five windows and the addition of two new window openings. Additional improvements include the replacement of all entry doors, new awnings over the entry doors to the home in the garage, as well as a new access door to the existing garage. No changes to the footprint of the home are proposed and no additional impervious coverage is proposed. The applicant is proposing to paint the residents and off white warm bone color. Although it is a significant change from the current red brick on the home properties in the old town Clayton neighborhood are diverse in terms of mass height and materials. Nearby properties that feature residences with light coloring include the adjacent property at 142 North Emerson, as well as several properties moving north along North Emerson Avenue towards Pershing Avenue. The openings of the two windows on the front elevation will be enlarged with the window to the right of the front doors opening to be brought down to the floor and the window to the left of the front door being enlarged to a four foot opening. Staff is of the opinion that the proposed project is compatible with our three regulations as well as the neighborhood. The applicant has also indicated that they will be removing the two mature trees in the front yard and indicated in conversations with staff that these trees are decaying. No information on the health of the trees was provided in the submittal, but the applicant noted that extensive plantings will be made. The trees proposed to be removed are located in the right-of-way. Staff is of the opinion that these trees should not be removed unless it is determined to be necessary by the Department of Public Works. Staff's recommendation is to approve with two conditions to be addressed prior to issuance of the building permit. First, building permit plans should reflect the proposed changes to the exterior of the home and garage only, and all references to retaining walls, foundations, and an addition shall be removed. Second, the two trees in the right-of-way shall remain unless removal is deemed necessary by the Department of Public Works. That concludes my presentation.

Okay, thank you. Is the applicant here?

Come on up. Good evening. Good evening.

Steve from Space Architects and Dan from Space Constructors.

Could you give us your name again?

Steve Hoard from Space Architects. Spell the last name. H-O-A-R-D.

Thank you. Do you have anything to add to the staff report?

No, I think Anissa covered it. I can just give you a bit of background. The owner of the property has plans that we are working on with him to design and renovate this house completely. So the replacement of the windows goes along with refreshing window wells and fixing all of the things that are over 100 years old. So the house is in good shape. in general, but everything is gonna be done to the top notch at this point. So a full renovation on the inside, which we have a building permit for right now, which includes finishes, a kitchen, master bathroom renovation, et cetera. And then in conjunction with that, the replacement of the windows and painting on the outside so that it's completely fresh and new. So they plan on being there for a long time, so.

Well, it is a charming house in its current condition. And I think these... changes that you're proposing on the exterior, since we really don't look at the interior changes, will bring the house more up to date and yet maintain the charm that it has. It also makes it look a little more similar to some of the other homes on the street, including the new one just to the Right, the next door neighbor. Yeah, which we reviewed about 18 months ago or so. I believe that Anissa's comments about the trees are correct. and hope that you will proceed with working with the Public Works Department.

Of course. I have a comment about that. The owner was working with a tree company that had an arborist that told them those two trees needed to come out because of disease, the ones that are on the front yard now. And so they haven't hired a landscape architect or are in the process of doing so. So at the point where they have a design, we'll be able to provide a lot more information regarding that.

Well, as it was stated, they are in the easement. So I think public works will need to be involved.

Are you talking about the two trees in the public right-of-way?

Yes.

We're not proposing and they're not asking to remove those. We're talking about two trees in their front yard beyond the building. They're actually right adjacent to the house now. not the trees in the public right-of-way and the parkway between the sidewalk and the street. That is not what we're proposing.

So the two trees that,

oh, no problem. The two trees we're talking about now would be located one of them right in front of the walkway that comes from the driveway and the other one to the left side of the house adjacent to the west neighbor. Those two trees are diseased and they're on their own property within 10 feet of the front facade. The

one to the left is adjacent to the stone bench.

Correct. Yes. Sorry if that was confusing.

Well, that will really remove the second condition. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. Well, you heard my comments. I think it'll be a nice upgrade and maintain the charm. Bob? Yes,

your first name? Steve. Steve. It looks like a nice project, but Steve, I'm always wary when somebody wants to paint brick white. And where I live, I can walk into the DeMunn neighborhood and there's this one apartment building that is painted white. Everything else up and down the street is just your basic brick color. And it stands out like a sore thumb. And so as I look at your house being painted white, I know the next one is white. Is there many other white structures in your neighborhood?

There are. Around the corner, there's houses that are precast stone that are of the similar tone we're talking about. We're not proposing the house as white. So there's many, many whites, as you guys know, on the board. We're proposing that the house, we will use, most likely we'll use a... and elastomeric style paint that is designed for masonry that will not come off, and that is closer to the color of the neighbor's house. So the neighbor's house is actually an unglazed like quarry brick that you can see some stipple in that makes it not white. It's a white brick, but the combination makes it a softer as Anissa described, a bone color. So an off-white that's not so harsh. This house is also very shaded and very small as well. So you don't have big expanses of white, for instance. So it's designed to be more muted, a more muted white, not a gray, but a more muted white. And we're happy to show you guys the colors we're looking at doing along with the window color, if you'd like.

So the whole house is going to be some form of muted white or muted gray.

Yes, all one color. It's considered to be like a bone off-white color. Some people call it grige. It's not gray and it's not white, but it's a warm white color.

Well, I guess I know you have the house next door and yourself. So if you two have a muted white, have two sore thumbs sticking out or am I looking at a nice. I would

say two harmonious neighbors not sore thumbs. Okay, thank you. Ellen.

A bit of history. The house was originally, or I can't say originally, when I moved to that street, it was pink.

Wow.

And Mrs. Porter, the Porter paints, it was painted pink. It went from pink to a gray, a medium tone gray. And now it is in its restored brick state. So the color is, it's had several iterations.

We have not seen evidence of that yet. I know Dan, he's the head of our construction company. I don't have you seen any color? Yeah, we might find it. Yeah, the owner, the wife has been in love with this house for years and finally had an opportunity to buy it. So she's completely charmed by it. I don't know if she saw it in the previous color iterations, but...

Will the color be similar to the existing siding on the addition?

Okay, that's a good question. It's not necessarily, it's not designed to match the siding. The color will be very specifically picked to be this light warm color, bone color, but all of the woodwork, for instance, will match it. So we won't, the siding that's existing now on the second story edition that was done in the 80s will be painted as well, all one contiguous color.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, now I'm fine with it.

I think it looks great. I think it's very sophisticated. I love the shutter designs as well. I don't get the sore thumb appeal to it, but yeah, I think it looks very sophisticated.

David? Looks great.

Okay, thank you.

And Ira, comments?

Yeah, no, I think it's great. I'm not a big fan of painted brick. I appreciate that it'll stick and it won't chip off like a lot of times they do. But at the same time, you know, if it's consistent again with the neighborhood and there are other places, then that's fine. So I'm okay.

Okay, thank you. Any comments from the audience? We have one. Please come on up and identify yourself.

I'm Steve Burrows. My wife and I own the home adjacent that's been referred to several times in the meeting. And to answer your question, Robert, we had the same question to us about our brick like two years ago. And so I did a little survey around the neighborhood between Linden, Maryland, Central, and Kingsbury. And if memory serves me correctly, there's more than 15 white homes in that three or four block square area. So just to fill in that gap, there's a number of white homes in there and we're supportive of the union's request here and look forward to them getting their work done. So

thank you. Were there any hands raised virtually? OK, thank you. We removed one of the items on the two trees in the right-of-way as a condition. But I'd like to add another one, as we did in the previous review, and that is to submit color samples. Sure. We certainly know the black windows that are going in, but I think submitting it to the staff so that it can be looked at and hopefully it will go along with verbal color that we've heard. No problem. And any further comments? Do we have a motion to that?

Yes, I move we adopt the staff recommendation to approve the application with two conditions to be addressed prior to issuance of the building permit. Number one, building permit plan should reflect the proposed changes to the exterior of the home and garage only, and all references to retaining walls, foundations, and in addition shall be removed. And number two, it shall be submitted for approval, the color samples that shall be used for the improvements.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay. Thanks for coming. Thank you very much. Good luck with it. All right. We'll look forward to seeing it. Thank you. Before we leave the new business, item number two, 600 Francis Place, I suggest that we move to table it to a future meeting. Second. All in favor?

Aye.

And then we have one more item on our list and that is a public hearing for proposed modifications to Chapter 405, Zoning Regulations, Article 10, Planned Unit Development District. And we'll open the public hearing now and we will start with the report.

This is a public hearing to solicit input regarding a proposed amendment to Chapter 405, Article 10, Land Unit Development District, to consider adopting an amendment to specify required first floor uses within mixed-use buildings, as well as the clarification of other provisions within the ordinance. The PUD regulations currently state the first floor of any mixed-use building shall be dedicated to commercial land uses. The ordinance defines commercial land uses as retail, restaurant, entertainment venues. Under this regulation, any first floor uses other than retail, restaurant, or entertainment uses are prohibited. To align regulations with market realities and allow greater flexibility within mixed use buildings staff has drafted revisions the beauty regulations that would require commercial uses to be included on the first floor. But not require that the entire first floor be dedicated to commercial uses status recommendation is at the plan Commission consider the draft beauty regulations attached to the report and make a recommendation of approval to the board of alderman that concludes my presentation.

Okay, thank you. This is a public hearing, so we may get comments from our aldermen sitting in the audience or from the virtual people. But I'll comment that I think this is something we should definitely consider at this point because the economic situation recently and for however more we know in the future may limit the amount of retail that we can get into these ground force spaces. So as we know, nothing is forever. If the economy were to turn around, I'm sure we could then modify it again if we felt it would be necessary. But hopefully you've been able to read the draft and the all the final amendment and see the differences to it. So let's open up a discussion. Bob, do you have comments?

I really have a question and I don't want to sound so naive, but what does this proposed PUD change, what essential things is it changing to the existing one so that we need to vote on it now? Reverend?

David, did you hear that question? Wait, are we... About what we're doing generally?

Yeah, generally, what are we trying to achieve here?

Sure, so the current ordinance as it's written basically requires you to have commercial land uses on the entirety of the first floor of a structure. So if you have a PUD, floor plates 10,000 square feet, or say, what's gonna be bigger than that? Say it's a 30,000 square foot floor plate. An entire 30,000 square feet per this needs to be dedicated to commercial land uses at the present time. And commercial land uses are defined as retail, restaurant, entertainment uses and that's it. So you couldn't have a portion that set aside for office space, you couldn't have any other residential component maybe on the first floor that needs to be dedicated to basically entryways to the upper floors of that mixed use building or those commercial land uses the three that are defined in the code. This amendment here would change that so that you would still need to have a commercial land use on the first floor. So retail restaurant or entertainment, but not the entirety of the first floor so that the Board of Aldermen would have the discretion to look at each individual project and then be able to basically look at the appropriate ratio of a mixture of uses on that first floor. Because what we found over time is with a lot of these projects, you remember perhaps when we had sub-district amendments for Centene because they couldn't get retail tenants on the first floor. So adjustments were made for Chase Bank to their sub-district plan, also for an orthodontic office. And we see vacancies in some of these buildings where that first floor retail has been required. I think the Board of Aldermen in that discussion, they certainly expressed a desire to get more activity on the street. So they still wanted commercial land use, but they want to see activities. So a change for some of that space to an office use or something else that still gets activity, you still have some commercial land use on that first floor. The board felt that that would be an appropriate change to this code, and that's why it's before you

tonight. Thank you, David. That being the case, this is a no-brainer. It simply expands the number of uses that a developer can negotiate with a city for.

Ellen?

I would agree with Bob that it gives more flexibility. And I think we need that as times change and empty stores are depressing, empty storefronts are depressing. And if there's some activity you know, no matter what it is, it would be better than none. So I think it's good. And as Steve mentioned, we can come back and change it if times change.

Amy?

So just question, is this like just for new buildings or would this be like retrofitted for like all buildings? buildings in Clayton right now?

So this would be for new buildings, but it would impact a change of uses within existing buildings with that PUD zoning category. So it's really both, but the majority of the time it's going to be applied. I think that's going to be new structures going in.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great idea because I agree. It is depressing to see a lot of empty fronts.

Ira, any comments?

Well, I know I have my opportunity at the board of all of them to make all my comments, which I think I did. But I think I do recommend this change to give more flexibility to both developer and the city in dealing with new construction, especially. So yeah, I think this is a good idea, but I'm really looking for your independent judgment as a board. So I will shut up.

Thank you. Any comments from the audience tonight? Okay, any? We do have hands up. Oh, there are two hands up. Yes. Okay, we have Peter Smith. Your comments?

Yes, thank you. I think I'm unmuted. I have to say I'm disappointed in the direction that this is headed. I'm not a fan of the fairly recent propensity of the city to erect 15, 25 story buildings. I think one person on the elected official said that their goal was for Midtown or downtown Clayton to look like Midtown Manhattan. and I thought it was a bad idea but you know it is what's happening. The idea was it was going to create a downtown that was a live work play environment But you left out shop. So if I want to get my shoes repaired or my dry cleaning done or pick up something for dinner, increasingly we're going to have to get in our cars and leave Clayton because we're displacing a lot of the storefront, the one-story building retail with 20 or 25-story developments. So I think that the economic realities of the pandemic are rural and the city has to address them. But bear in mind that the less retail you have on the first floor, the more you're gonna compel all these people who are hopefully gonna move into these condos and apartments to get in their car and leave Clayton. For example, I live at 23 Brighton Way and Midas Capital is proposing a 42 unit condominium development on the Forsyth curve, which used to be, I think, essentially 100% retail of the first floor. That's all gone. That's not Midas' fault, but it's all gone. And I'm seeing, you know, I used to go up to the World News or the little restaurant next to it, and now that's going to be gone. So I would just ask this board to consider as you look at this amendment to the PUD, I sure hope that the spirit of having places to shop in downtown Clayton doesn't get lost in the mix of all this. Thank you.

Thank you. And Rick, Pennell, there you are. Unmute yourself there.

Yes, this is actually Christine Pinnell. My husband is Rick Pinnell and not here. I just wanted to say I'm in agreement with Peter Smith. I went to the first meeting about this development behind our building, and I may be incorrect, but it seemed like they talked about 1,000 to 1,300 square feet for retail, and I don't know what they're going to do with the rest of it. I am concerned that things are going to move toward us not, as Peter said, being able to... People are going to leave Clayton to have things done. And I think this whole thing with the parking and everything is going to be crazy over there. And the fact that we... That whole block of foresight has been just horrible for the last probably 10 years with the way it's looked. And I'm delighted that they're going to do something with it. But we... In the past, we've always had retail, a lot of retail along there, both sides. And I'd like to see us continue with a lot of that.

Okay, thank you. Anything further?

No, but I'm concerned this is going into a wrong direction where things are going to be flipped around at some point. I just want to state that for the record.

Thank you for your comments. Any other comments from the commission?

We do have one more hand. It just dropped off, but I'm going to go ahead and allow the attendee that is listed as Herb to talk. He had his hand raised a moment ago.

Yes, my name is Herbert Seidel. I'm also a resident of 23 Brighton Way. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. I would also like to second all the comments made by Peter and Christine. In particular, I guess what I'm saying is that Whatever development is produced along Forsyth curve, depending on how it's structured within the first floor of that project will certainly have an effect on the property immediately behind it. And I just would like the board to, if they're going to judge these projects on a case by case basis keep very much in mind the effect that whatever portion of the first floor development of that particular project is intended to be, that they consider the backside of the building as much as what may front on four sides.

Okay, well, thank you for your comments. We all know that property on the Forsyth Curve will be coming to the Plan Commission and the ARB in the near future. And at that time, we'll certainly take a look at it. But tonight we are looking at this text amendment, which would be not only on the Forsythe Curve, but throughout the downtown area. Ira?

Did I say something?

No, I thought I saw you waving.

Oh, no, no, no. Not intended. Sorry.

Any other comments at this point? We do have a staff recommendation to make a recommendation of approval to the Board of Aldermen for this text amendment.

Second.

All in favor?

Karen Hollweg, I

I was okay well we have. Karen Hollweg, made the recommendation to approve it to the Board of aldermen and we will send it back to them, so I thank everyone for their discussion on it and we'll close the public hearing at this point. So I think that brings us to the end of the meeting for tonight, but we typically go around the room and see if there are any general comments. And Kami, if you'd like to start. I

don't think so. No comment.

But we can come back to you after we've gone around. Helen?

No, it's good to be back and to see people as three-dimensional figures. So glad to be here.

Bob?

I just want to say it's great to see everybody in person. It's amazing this day and age that we have to say something like that, that it's so nice to see people in person. And Tammy, my only advice to you is this. First of all, welcome. it's okay to say when it's your turn to speak, no comment. Okay. Those are two well-chosen words we often use too, you know, but welcome. And Steve, always good to see you. And David and Lisa, always good to you guys.

Thank you, Bob. Ira? Hey, I'll go with Bob on this one. No comment. David?

They're not watching, but I just want to thank our IT staff for putting this technology in place. It allows us to have really seamless hybrid meetings, which a lot of cities have struggled with putting something like this in place. And Anissa did a great job running both the Zoom and the meeting at the same time. And just a really nice piece of technology and execution here by our staff. So very proud of that effort.

Thank you. Anissa, any words for our upcoming meetings?

No words for the upcoming meetings. I would also like to thank the IT department for helping me be able to run this meeting, so.

Lori. And Kevin.

It's good to be here. It's good that you have a chance to come back and visit.

Good. Well, thank you, everyone. It is really good to be back in person. You know, we are no longer just talking heads, but hopefully we can think a little clearer when we see each other.

Speak for yourself. Ira,

I

feel you're talking from on high, you know.

Okay, we'll hope to see you soon in person also, Ira. All right, same here. We'll close the meeting and we'll look forward to seeing everyone in two weeks. Thank you. Thank you all.