November 1, 2021 — Meeting Transcript

Okay. Good evening and welcome to the Plan Commission ARB for the first day of November 2021. If you're in the audience and you wish to speak, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed in at the appropriate time. So let's start with the roll call.

Okay. Chairman Steve Lichtenfeld.

Here.

David Gipson, City Manager.

David Gibson, City Manager.

Here.

Helen DeFayt. Here. George Hedich. Robert Denlo.

Here.

Carolyn Gatiss. Here. Ira Berkowitz. Did you find him?

Absent at the moment. I should be bringing him over as soon as he logs on here. All

right. Okay.

Thank you.

We have minutes from the previous meeting on October 19th. Are there any changes or errors in there that have not been reported? No. Do we have a motion?

Carol. Really quickly, Carolyn, I just muted your mic. We're getting a lot of sound coming from your microphone there. You'll need to unmute yourself.

My computer is having issues with both camera and microphone, so I apologize. I'll do this quickly and then mute me. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay, minutes are passed. We can move on to new business. Item number one, 8135 Maryland Avenue.

This is for 8135 Maryland Avenue. The restaurant is located on the north side of Maryland Avenue, east of Forsyth Boulevard. The restaurant owner is proposing to construct a 399 square foot fabric awning over the existing outdoor dining area, measuring 8.5 feet in height from the elevation of the existing patio to the bottom of the awning and 12.5 feet in high from the elevation to the top of the awning where it intersects with the wall. The outdoor dining patio is in front of the restaurant facing Maryland Avenue. There is signage proposed on the awning comprised of white lettering applied to blue fabric. Per code, signage for awnings may be no more than 15% of the area of the awning parallel to the street. The proposed signage complies with this requirement. There are many restaurants and stores in the same strip with awnings. However, the majority do not extend from the building towards the street to this degree. The unique character of this area and the red brick design of the buildings should be taken into consideration. While there are other awnings in the same strip that are yellow, orange, and various shades of blue, there is not an existing awning that is comparable in terms of both size and color. A change in color from royal blue to a darker blue would make the proposed canopy more compatible with other blue canopies on the strip. Staff is of the opinion that with a slight modification, the plan may be more compatible in terms of mass height and design with the surrounding area. Our recommendation is to approve the request with one condition, to be satisfied prior to issuance of the building permit. That the color of the proposed awning be modified from royal blue to a darker, more neutral color. That concludes my presentation.

Okay, thank you. Is the applicant here with us? Yes, I am. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Please give us your name and relationship to the project.

Okay. My name is Dan Miller and I'm with Specialty Awning who is fabricating and installing the awning.

Do you have anything to add to the staff report?

Yeah. Just one thing. My customer she's concerned about The color issue, and I know you kind of pointed it out there with other awnings that are pink, orange, yellow. And she just wants to stick with what we had proposed. And she's got that on her branding and just wants to keep it, you know, doesn't want to change up the colors for her. for her brand and all of that. So that's why she wants to stick with that royal blue. And we discussed going, what do you think about a darker color? And she was pretty stern on sticking to what she wants.

Anything else, Dan?

No, I think that's it.

Okay. Well, thank you. We'll go around and see what everyone on the board will say. I'll start off. Actually, I think that is a great idea to put the cover out there because it'll give a lot more comfort to the patrons as well as to the staff. The Starlight Pacific Blue awning cover, I really don't mind at all. I think that it does go with the half and half branding logo. And I think a little differentiation is okay. So that's my comment, but let's go around. Carolyn? Carolyn?

I felt the same way as you, Steve. So I have no other comments than

that.

Okay. Bob? Steve, I'm pretty much in agreement with you. I'm looking at the green awnings on an aerial on either side of the subject property. I mean, that doesn't affect me at all. And her blue awning will go with the blue sign that she has on her front gate or front door. fence right there. I don't think that my feeling is it's not a significant enough issue for us to tell her to change the shade of blue. So I don't have a problem with it, with what she, what the applicant proposes.

Thanks, Bob. Helen?

I have a question about where does the awning end near the sidewalk? Is it at the edge of the sidewalk or is it further back on the patio area?

Yeah, so it's on the patio area where the fence is. So it does not go out of that fenced-in area. And if I'm correct... there is outside of that fence, there is seven, I think seven feet of sidewalk from the street to where her fence starts.

It's

basically, it's mimicking that Five Star Burgers. I think that's a couple storefronts down if I'm correct.

My concern is the rain coming down, that it will come down the angle of the awning and then hit in addition to any rain that is coming straight down. It will cause splashing for anybody walking there. And of course, for people, you know, anybody eating near that edge, there's nothing to pick up the water as it pours off the awning?

So, you know, you're not wrong, but really that awning, I know it, you know, does seem bigger than a lot of, you know, a three-foot projection out away from the wall, but there's really not a lot of rain that jumps off that awning. And The problem with, say, if you put a gutter there, yeah, that would help with the rain. But I mean, you think about it, if it's pouring raining outside, there's not going to be many people outside. And the downside as well, is if you were to put a gutter on the front of that awning, it'll you know aesthetically that's not going to look too attractive uh she wants to put signage on the front which that would end up blocking her signage and uh so that's kind of why that the the uh gutter and all that would kind of to me at least I feel like it wouldn't be an attractive solution for something that it, you know, I do it all the time. So I kind of know what, how much rain they take on. It's really, I mean, yeah, they do, you know, it is going to drop rain on the front, but in the big scheme of things, I don't see it as a, as an issue really at all. And I've had many customers ask me that question and, do you think we should put a downspout? And I tell them, give it a month or two. I'd be glad to put one on there after the fact, but let me know what you think, how much rain you're going to have, see if it affects you. And I rarely get a call back about wanting to put a gutter and downspout on there. And again, it kind of takes away from the look itself.

I was thinking more of a gutter that would be hidden in the awning slope, almost built into the awning so that the fabric comes down and then there's a drop and then the fabric comes up again. So that the signage, which I think is nice along the front because it'll be quite readable, that would still be visible. And it would almost be a hidden or a concealed gutter is more what I was thinking, not the traditional gutter that we put on houses that is, you know, OG shape. No, that would look terrible. So, okay, if you're comfortable with it.

Yeah. And I, with what you were explaining something, if I were to put something in two feet or a foot back from the front, I've, I can't really answer how, how I'd be. I've never done that. So I can't really say how that would work. But one thing that would cause a concern for me is it would cause a pocket of leaves and buildup, which if you get a lot of dirt buildup in there and you can tell anybody to clean something but I could see that being an issue getting dirt in there causing the awning to mold and mildew more quickly. And I just feel like that'd be a cause of concern.

Okay, now that's, it is a maintenance. Gutters require maintenance.

Right, right.

We all know. No, the color, I'm fine. I think the light, daylight, cloudy days, I think the color will look very different on different days. So I'm fine with the color selected. That's it.

Thanks, Helen.

Ira? Yeah, I was kind of wondering, is it possible, I don't think you did this, but is it possible to have this like an awning that you could, I guess, take up and down for the seasons, depending on spring, fall, summer type of thing?

As far as like a retractable.

Like a retractable awning.

Yeah, so the problem with the retractable, for one, you're not supposed to have it out in the wind because you don't have supports out on the front. And especially you're not supposed that retractable is only supported back at the wall. and then a bar on the front. So if you get a lot of big rainfall, that's just going to put all that weight on that fabric, which could cause big issues with your mounts back at the wall. So it's, uh, it's a good idea to have, I mean, on a sunny, you know, not a very breezy day, but as far as wanting something to be up there, you know, 365 and not have to deal with it or having your employees who, aren't really trained to operate it or, or know when to put it out or let it back in. Um, that could be a, be an issue, but yeah, I think she was just wanting something just to get up there and really not have to worry about it. And people would be able to eat out there, you know, in the, in a sprinkle, I guess, or be able to use it, you know, even in the winter, I mean, The awnings engineered for high wind loads and snow loads and all that.

Well, I'm glad to see it. It's a good, I think, addition. I eat there all the time. So I'm glad to say I can have some protection from rain and sun. Right. So I have no complaints about it at all. I just thought it might be better for the restaurant if it was retractable.

Yeah.

Yeah. Otherwise, I'm fine. I think the color is fine with me. I have no problem with it.

Okay. Thanks, Ira. David?

I don't have any additional comments or questions.

Okay. I had one other comment. Dan, from my experience there, I think it'll be much more useful during the summer months when the sun is high and coming straight down because it gets very, very hot. in the exceeding area right now. So I see it as a solar control more than a rain control at this point, but I'm sure they'll use it as often as they can because they always have people waiting.

Yeah and they're facing, I mean you're facing south there and I haven't been there or eaten there myself but those glass front windows, it's definitely gonna keep it cooler inside in the hot summer days. Yeah,

good. Well, I think everyone has spoken. Do we have anyone in the audience, David, that has a hand up? No, sir. No, thank you. Well, we do have a staff recommendation that I believe everyone has said we do not have to consider. that the color proposed by the applicant is acceptable. So do we have a motion to approve without the?

I'll make a motion to approve the staff recommendation.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, Dan, you're on the way. When will we see it?

Um, as soon I guess as soon as the building permit next. And then I guess we'll get I guess we'll Get started on it. So hopefully here in the next in the next month, month and a half.

Good luck with

it. Thank you.

Okay, let's go on to item number two. That's 37 Brentmoor Park. PB

Harmon Zuckerman, The 57,063 square foot side is a corner lot with two frontages on Brentmore Park in October of 2021 the Board of Adjustment granted a 3.05 foot variance for the construction of a new covered pavilion. PB Harmon Zuckerton, The applicant is proposing the construction of this 785 square foot pavilion, as well as other site improvements. The proposed outdoor pavilion is compatible in appearance with the existing single-family residence. Staff is of the opinion that the proposed pavilion is also compatible with the surrounding neighborhood and the pavilion conforms to the Spanish colonial style of the existing home, featuring white stucco walls and a red tile roof. All proposed materials will match the existing residence. Total lot and previous coverage is limited to 55% in the R1 district. The proposed project, including the proposed swimming pool, remains below the maximum allowed. A 3,764 square foot terrace is also proposed. The terrace is comprised of limestone pavers ranging in color from white to cream, which will match the limestone tile material of the existing terrace. A four-foot black wrought iron fence is proposed to the south and west of the improvements in order to enclose the pool area. Staff's recommendation is to approve as submitted. And that concludes my presentation.

Okay, thank you. Is the applicant or the owner here? I see Mr. Jameson is here.

Yes, I'll be representing Mr. and Mrs. Siwa.

Do you have anything to add to the staff report?

Well, I'll start with a good afternoon to Chairman Lichtenfeld and members of the Board of the Architecture Review and representatives for the City of Clayton. My name is Jimmy Jamison from Jamison Design, and we're the architectural designers for the case before you. And along with Elizabeth Pankey, who is the architect of record, we'll be respectfully representing the Seawalks. 37 Brentmore Park, as you know, is a 57,063 square foot site with two frontages on Brentmore. The property has a zoning designation of R1 large lot single family dwelling. The site is currently developed with a single family home comprising 7,588 square feet. The proposed plans call to remove the existing rear terrace and open air pavilion, and replace them with a larger open air pavilion with summer kitchen, a larger stone terrace, a swimming pool, fire pit, and new fencing. The project encompasses the East and South elevations for the existing residents. In October of 2021, as previously stated, the Board of Adjustments for the City of Clayton granted a 3.05 foot variance from the required rear yard setback of 62.02 feet for the construction of this new open air pavilion. The 14-year-old residence was designed by Gun & Smith Architects with interior architecture and interior designed by Jameson. The existing building is designed in the Spanish colonial architectural style and is comprised of sand-colored stucco walls with a red clay tile roof and Walders limestone exterior terraces and porches. Many of the homes in the Brentmore Park neighborhood features stucco as a building material and some with clay roofs. Many homes also have attached or freestanding pavilions. On behalf of Stacy and Greg Seawalk, we are proposing the construction of a new 785 square foot open air pavilion and summer kitchen, an enlarged rear terrace, a 783 square foot swimming pool, a fire pit and new fencing. The proposed outdoor pavilion extends 35 feet, eight and one quarter inches from the rear of the Western portion of the residence. The proposed design is attached to the existing residents much like the existing pavilion is attached. One window will be infilled on the rear elevation to allow for the construction of the proposed pavilion. The height of the proposed pavilion is the same height as the existing pavilion and the open air arch design is much the same as the existing pavilions. In our opinion, the proposed height is compatible with the height of the existing residents. The primary building material for the proposed pavilion is a concrete masonry type with a stucco finish and a light sand color, which will match the existing residence. The proposed roofing material is clay tile, which will also match the existing residence The gutters and the downspouts will also match the existing gutter type. The proposed terrace areas, which comprise 3,764 square feet, will be constructed of Valder's limestone pavers and will match the existing Valder's pavers. The salvage tile from the existing terraces will be interspersed and mixed with the new Valder's paver. The existing planter areas around the terrace will be protected and maintained. The project will also include the addition of a new linear type trench drain. All the existing trees on the property are proposed to remain. A four foot tall black wrought iron fence to match the existing fence is proposed to the south and to the west of the additions in order to enclose the new pool area. As you are aware, the total lot impervious coverage is limited to 55% of the designated R1 zoning district. The proposed project includes the swimming pool and adjacent terrace. The proposed project, including the proposed swimming pool and adjacent terraces, will increase the impervious coverage on the site to 33.4%. which remains below the maximum allowable area of 55%. We have obtained the written approval from the neighborhood trustees for Brentmore Park. We have also obtained the written approval, from the homeowners of the neighboring properties located at 36 Brentmore Park, Mr. Joshua Jennings and from 38 Brentmore Park, mr. Peter Zhang whose property is located adjacent to the rear yard. We have spent a significant amount of time evaluate the Seawalk's needs and have tried to balance their needs with the proposed new design and the existing architecture. In our opinion, the proposed design balances the family's growing needs with the beauty and the integrity of the existing architecture. The scale, building materials, and finishes will blend seamlessly with the existing architecture and the architecture of the surrounding residences in this beautiful and historically significant neighborhood. It is with the utmost respect that we have approached this design. With the same respect, we ask today that you consider the proposed design for this pavilion and consider granting us approval. Thank you for your time today and for your kind consideration. And hello to the dog.

He says thank you. Thank you, Jimmy. It is a very beautiful addition. The one question that I have is, where is the trench drain? What is it picking up and where is the water going?

The trench drain will be tied into the existing drain, which daylights onto the property at two different points on the side and the front. And the drain is located on the north side of the swimming pool.

Oh, okay. Okay. So it will prevent any additional runoff from the newly paved area onto their ground and to number 36 to their east. That's correct. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Carolyn?

I'm going to mute it. Thank you. I had no comments except for it looks beautiful and

Well, thank you.

Bob? No comments. It seems to be a nice addition to the neighborhood. Thank you. Ellen?

My only question was who did the drainage plan because there seems to be more elements that have been added. The plan shows the existing But then there's a number of elements that are added toward the east and toward the west in addition to the trench drain.

Well, the trench drain, as I said, would be located to the north of the pool. Yeah, the trench

drain is at the north. OSBT-Karen Hollweg, I see that, but I went through and marked in red everything that had been added and there's a number of additions on the East end and then a couple on the West side. OSBT-Karren

Reyes, Well, so we're extending the we're extending the existing covered pavilion um and To the west, I believe that that area is the fire pit area and there's no drain plan for the fire pit here.

Now there's additional work within the pavilion and then there's additional work to the east of the construction. There's new Inlets and things. I was just wondering because all the other plants are marked either with your logo or, and the architect of records seal. So I was wondering who had mapped out the drainage?

Well, we actually did the drainage in our office.

Okay.

Anything further, Helen?

Pardon?

Anything further?

No, nothing further.

Thank you. Ira?

I just want to know if the CWACs are going to be offering a membership. If they are, ask Stacey. Let her know I'm interested. All right.

I will pass that along.

It's a beautiful addition. Thank you. No comments.

David? Looks great. I don't have any questions or comments. Thank

you. Anybody in the audience? I'm sorry, Scott. Okay, thank you. Well, we do have a staff recommendation to approve as submitted. Do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve as submitted

Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, Jimmy, thank you for coming.

Thank you so much. And with any luck, we'll be able to build it by the end of the century. With COVID and the backlogs in construction, as of course you're hearing every day, it's challenging, but we're up for the fight. Well,

I hope they have it for next summer. That's our goal. Good. Well, thank you for coming and tell the Seawalks good luck with the project. Thank you so much. PB Harmon Zuckerman, Okay um let's move on to item 324 cars will.

PB Sarah Silver, 37,509 square foot site is located west of the eastern portion of cars will drive proposed project consists of a 1225 square foot two story family room slash mudroom addition to the rear of the structure at 239 square foot addition to the existing attached garage in a new front porch. The existing home has a primary building material of stone and various shades with accent materials of brick, wood and stucco. The city's architectural review guidelines stipulate that primary wall materials shall equal at least 75% of each elevation. It should be noted that only on the rear elevation does the combination of brick and stone meet this requirement. However, the guidelines also state that the amount of secondary materials may be increased should 15% or more of the homes within a subdivision contain these materials. Staff has walked throughout the subdivision and noted that more than 15% of homes contain stucco material. Staff is of the opinion that the proposed addition is compatible with the existing home and the surrounding neighborhood. The proposed garage addition will also incorporate the same design and materials to match the existing home. Additionally, per the provided plans, the applicant originally intended to widen the existing asphalt driveway along the portion of the drive parallel to the front of the home. While the existing driveway is considered to be legal non-conforming, per the city's architectural review guidelines, driveways that are to be extended or enlarged must be constructed of an approved driveway material. Staff notified the applicants of the requirement and they subsequently indicated that they will replace the entire driveway with an exposed aggregate driveway. In terms of fences, screening, and landscaping, the proposed trash enclosure is located at the rear of the garage and is comprised of metal fencing to match the existing metal fences. In terms of landscaping, the proposal garage addition will impact an ornamental tree, several boxwood bushes, and a columnar arborvitae. The applicant has indicated that these items will be replaced. The replacement plantings will likely be of a smaller caliber. Staff is of the opinion that the design and materials of the addition are compatible with the home and with the neighborhood character. Our recommendation is to approve with two conditions to be addressed prior to issuance of the building permit. First, that the plan shall be revised to show an approved driveway material. And second, that the plan should indicate the replacement landscaping along the garage addition. That concludes my presentation.

Okay, thank you. Is the applicant here? Yes, I see you there. Do you have anything to add to the staff report?

Yeah. Hello, this is Lauren Strutman. I'm the architect. I'm here with Steve Ensley and our client, Mike Zaccarello, is also attending this meeting by Zoom. You can see him on the screen. And this is an addition we've worked actually for over four years with the Zaccarello family to plan very carefully plan this addition. This is a 1928 Merrittson Young home. It is a two-door revival style, and it has a real variety of materials on the outside, stone, brick, stucco, and wood siding. We do have Carswell trustee approval, and we're basically doing an addition on the back of the house to add to the kitchen area and a bedroom up above. We're adding a new front porch, and we're expanding the garage, which will also make some smaller bedrooms that are above the garage a bit more usable with better head clearance and ceiling heights, but We're just here to answer any questions that you might have. The owner is considering using Randy Renner of period restoration because she wants to match exactly everything that is on this house so they will be using him or another very high quality builder. One other subject that has come up is matching the original Ludoichi tile roof that was put on the house in 1928 and the house recently had some storm damage So a new Luigi tile roof to match what was there is going to be put on the existing home and the addition. So everything should match seamlessly. And Steve and I are here to answer any questions you may have on this project.

Okay, thanks Lauren. It is a beautiful home, beautiful setting. And the addition looks like it'll be very compatible with both the individual home, as well as the neighborhood was stated in the staff report. Yes.

I think Susan would like to say something. Oh, okay. Sure.

Sorry about that. I just, for the record, you mentioned Steve and Steve's last name. I did not catch Steve's last name and I did not catch if he's a engineer, architect, what company he's with, how he's related to the project.

Lauren? Steve Ensley is an associate of my firm who has been working on the project with me. And his last name is Ensley, E-N-D-S-L-E-Y.

E-N- D-S-L E-Y.

Correct.

Thank you.

That's all. Thanks,

Susan.

We have had our site plans and drainage addressed by Boals. I know that was a question on the last project, but we do have the great to address my goals here on this project. And there's actually not a big increase in impervious coverage because it's a large lot and we're adding on, but there's already some data. Yeah.

So there's really negligible, if any, additional runoff. Is that correct? Correct. Yes. And from knowing the site, it would all run off into the public area.

Common ground. Correct.

Yes. Okay. And the two conditions, are you and the owner aware of them and agree to them?

Yes, we agree with the two conditions.

Okay. I think it's a beautiful addition, and it will really accentuate the functionality and livability of that home. So let's go around the board. Carolyn?

Yes. The replacement landscaping, do you have an idea of what that might contain?

We put in a note to Vanessa that we intended to put an ornamental tree in and a columnar arborvitae and some boxwood bushes to match what was being removed. It will be a little smaller than what's there, which is pretty overgrown stuff.

I'm muted. The dog is not, though, however. No, I just wanted to hear what it was. I appreciate that. I have no other comments, actually.

Bob? No comments. Helen?

No comments. I think it looks good. The edition is well handled.

Thank

you.

Ira? I have no comments, I think, other than I'm not sure why the Zaccarellos are expanding an already incredibly large, beautiful house. But it's obviously their choice, and I will support it. I have no questions. It looks beautiful.

David?

Very well done.

Thank you. Well, as we mentioned, we have two conditions that are stated in the staff report. And the architect has already said they agreed to them. So Carolyn, do we have a motion?

Yes, I'll make a motion to approve with the two staff recommendations.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? OK. David, I missed one thing. Was there anyone in the audience? No, sir. No. Okay. Well, we've passed it. So thank you. Thank you, Lauren, Steve and Mike. I see you're on it. Good luck with the project. It'll be a beautiful end result.

Thank you. Nice to see you all again.

Okay. Let's go on to item number four. 22 Hillvale.

The 20,473 square foot corner lot is located on the east side of Hillvale Drive north of Ridgemoor. The proposed project consists of an addition of 646 square feet to the existing 373 square foot attached garage and the construction of a 623 square foot stone paved terrace located above. The project also includes the replacement of the existing driveway. The proposed garage addition will incorporate the same design and materials to match the existing home. The primary building material for the proposed garage is stone to match the principal structure with red brick veneer piers located atop the garage. Staff is of the opinion that the design and materials of the proposed garage addition and terrace are compatible with the home and the surrounding area. All materials are proposed to match and the configuration of the terrace atop the attached garage is exhibited on several properties throughout the neighborhood. In terms of impervious coverage and landscaping, in the R2 district, the maximum total lot impervious coverage is 55%. The proposed project conforms to this requirement. Three trees are proposed for removal and all other trees will remain. The three trees to be removed consist of a holly, a magnolia and a Bradford pear and are in close proximity to their replacement driveway. It should be noted that the trees proposed for removal are of a large caliper. The site exceeds the minimum canopy coverage requirement by 16,208 square feet. No additional landscape plantings are proposed. The trash enclosure and mechanical equipment will be located on the side elevation adjacent to the garage and a cedar fence will screen these items. A retaining wall is proposed along the northern and eastern portion of the driveway with a varying height from six inches to six feet. The wall is comprised of concrete with a stone veneer to match the existing wall. A generator is proposed in the northeast corner of the site and will be screened by a cedar fence. Staff is of the opinion that the design and materials of the addition are compatible with the home and with the neighborhood character. Our recommendation is to approve as submitted.

Hey, thank you, Alan. I see you're signed on as well as the owner. Do either of you have any additional comments?

Yes, I'd thank the ARB board for hearing this this evening. The owners approached, they purchased the house a few years back and one of the deficiencies with the property is the fact that when they come out of the rear of the home, they have to go down some steps to a very small terrace And currently there are some brick retaining walls that are in disrepair leading to a very small garage with low overhead, which is typical of the home of this period. So they came to Mainline and asked us to look at coming up with a solution that would be complimentary to the house in as many aspects as we could bring in. And so the thought here would be to eliminate the asphalt driveway, change the grade slightly, and come back with a concrete driveway with a brick edge, although we are considering doing a stamped red brick edge because we're a little bit worried about the freeze-thaw cycle on an actual embedded brick edge. So we kind of have it shown as a red brick paver currently, but we're a little concerned about the longevity of that. But either way, it will be a cream color driveway with the maroon edge all the way around to match the renderings that you see. We're here also enclosing the trash areas and some HVAC equipment on the east edge behind the stone wall so it's not to be visible from the street. And then the addition itself, the terrace is 623 square feet. It's what we've done as a port concrete structure. And then you can see there's a terrace, a paving pattern of a light stone, potentially a valders or a flurry stone. that would basically cover all of the hard surfaces. So we have stone caps on the brick piers, and then we have decorative lighting that would go around the perimeter and be dimmable to give a perimeter light to the terrace itself. And then we have a couple back on the post near the rear yard simply to give some illumination to the backup area when they were to pull in and pull out. As Anissa had mentioned, there is a generator in the far back corner of the property that it's fully screened with the same complimentary cedar fence, stained cedar fencing that is currently there and will be along the new border where the retaining wall is going. I think what we've also done is some stone steps down to the rear yard. So essentially this kind of fixes the one deficiency that the home seems to have is a connection from the rear grass yard and give them an outdoor place to eat that's much more usable than sort of the current one that's kind of hemmed in by the driveway and all of the asphalt that's over there. So we feel that this solution here is using the best quality of materials and is going to be an asset to the home and to the neighborhood for years to come.

Thank you, Alan. You're welcome. From looking at the site plans and the drainage plan, there will be more impervious material removed than added. Is that correct? That is correct. Is the existing garage under the house? It is.

It's approached from the rear yard. You pull around the rear and then under.

Okay. I did not go around the back side of the house. Okay. Actually, I think it looks very good. It brings this older home up to a little more modern standards for livability and the materials look very good. I really don't see any problem with it, including the drainage, which there's more pervious coverage in the backyard now than there was before. So I am comfortable with it. Let's go around the board. Carolyn? Do

you mind if you skip me for one second? Is that

OK? Yes. Uh-huh. Bob? No comments. Helen?

I did have a question with regard to the light fixtures. There's nine fixtures at a height of eight feet roughly. What is the total wattage?

Currently 75 per on a warm 3000 K LED dimmable.

Yeah, my concern is that they're not shielded and they're within 28 to 39 feet from the adjacent property line. I'm concerned that they will be too bright, that there is too much light there. Could they be lowered and maybe fewer of them?

Well, we have hanging. The plan was to have more of a modern fixture that's more down illuminated than out. And we have anticipated having hanging plants on the lights themselves. So, I mean, we could be amenable to submitting an exact light type as part of the construction document for review and acceptance.

Standing at the driveway level, it's about two stories above. You know, figuring the driveway level and then you have the terrace level and then eight feet above that, you have the light standard.

We have the brick themselves, the piers are four feet. So there are four foot post lamp above that. It's sort of the feeling being that, you know, if we start to get them much lower, I'm not so sure that there's a decent proportionate looking post lamp in the three foot range and lower. And the other issue too is, you know, we had considered doing festoon lighting, but then with the umbrella, we felt like there was going to be some conflict just utilizing festoon lighting for the task lighting that's out there. So we felt that these lights in terms of proportionately, the idea was that one on either side of the grill area to at least give that area some illumination. And then we felt that that set up a symmetry so we then have the two to illuminate the table and then the two that essentially illuminate the steps for safety as we don't have step lights and also the seating area. And as I said, we certainly be willing to submit samples to the building department as part of the construction documents.

Okay. You've got about 600 watts if everything is turned on. You've got nine fixtures at 75, 10 at 75 is 750. It just seems an awful lot. And the height... puts it even higher, you know, visually it extends the light gray diagram. So you get more light over a greater distance. So that's my only comment. Other than that, I think it's a great solution. I like what you've done.

Okay. Yeah. PB Harmon Zuckerman, I know the mark court certainly don't want to be a nuisance neighbor to anybody. So I think if if if the building department would be amenable to reviewing the fixture submittal we'd be amenable to discussing the the quality of the fixture that's actually going to go in.

OSBT-Karen Hollweg, That would be up to Susan. OSBT- Dave

Kuntz,

Okay, that's that's good for me.

PB John Gerstle, Thank you. PB John Gerstlem, You're muted IRA, but I think you said nothing. PB David Ensign,

that's right I don't have any comments it's i'm glad to see you replacing the asphalt that's a that's a good move and I think it looks like a very attractive addition to the House, thank you. PB David Ensigne,

David.

I would just say that on the lighting, there are some standards that are in our code. If you remember last year, we had an outdoor lighting ordinance that went through the plan commission before it was adopted by the board of Alderman. Within residential areas, it does set some parameters for outdoor lighting in residential areas. It actually regulates them by lumens of the brightness. So we'll have a few questions, I'm sure, at the staff level to ask in that regard. It also talks about shielding and what would be required if the light may trespass onto another property. So I'm sure that's something that staff can work out with the applicant in this case. Other than that, I don't have any questions or comments.

Okay. Carolyn?

Yeah, I had a couple of questions about the landscape information. The three trees getting removed. Clearly a Bradford pear I would have no issue with. Magnolia, that's a pretty large tree. Vassarholly, I'm surprised that there's a 20 inch Vassarholy. I have not been out there and I will admit that, but my guess is that's an American holly. 20-inch calipers, very large. Foster hollies don't typically get that large unless, I don't even know how. So that's also a native. So I had a question about those. I also had a question about the drawings from Frisella say landscape plans and they have details on them saying tree planting, shrub planting details, But there is no actual design for anything in any of the drawings. It just talks about the trees being removed. Will there be a plan that we get to review?

Yes, yes. We need to meet with the owners on the specifics of the perimeter plantings and the plant materials. The trees being removed, one is in the construction zone and the other is adjacent to the generator area and the roots are going to be impacted by the excavations for the driveway.

Okay. Is this coming back to the board, Susan, for review?

no um anise i don't think you planned on taking it back i believe if i recall the um there's no deficiency in terms of canopy coverage yeah so we're still meeting canopy coverage even with the removal of those trees and still made uh meeting the native tree requirement as well so we were we will review the planet creatively um But there's no need to come back to the board for this minor of a change.

OK. Well, maybe as we go forward, we can determine what should be reviewed and preserved landscape-wise in Clayton as far as that kind of tree caliper being removed. In

terms of the species? Well, the

magnolia 26 inch caliper, etc. Those are native trees and just having them get out because other trees on the site are significant enough. That's still a large tree and most municipalities say that you can't do that and you have to replace them inch per inch before you can continue with the project.

Yeah, we used to do that, Carolyn, for residential. Now we do the canopy coverage. So we did that calculation. Anissa did that calculation when she reviewed the plan and or, you know, reviewed the plan and ensured that it met that minimum requirement. And so that's kind of where we left it.

Okay. Okay. I appreciate that. As an arborist, it breaks my heart. That's all. So I was just trying to state an opinion. That's all. I have no further comments for the project. Thank you.

Thank you. David, are there any attendees with their hand up? No, sir.

No one left.

No one left, okay. That makes it easy. Okay, we do have a staff recommendation to approve as submitted. We've talked about having the fixture and the total lumens reviewed by staff when they're submitted, and that there should be a landscape planting plan for review also. Were there any other items? No. Okay. Do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve. The submittal with the recommendations of reviewing the fixtures and movement counts and the landscape plan for review as well.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay, thank you, Alan. And thank you, Mr. Mark Ward. Good luck with it. And I'm sure those two items that were in the motion will be taken care of by submittal to the staff. Absolutely.

Okay.

Thank you very much. Thanks very much. Okay. We have gotten through all of the new business, but we do have other business tonight. And I believe, David, you're going to lead us through Article 10, the Planned Unit Development District. That's correct. Let me pull

up the

presentation.

Okay. So I'm just going to go ahead and jump in and get going. If you have questions along the way, please feel free to ask. So we are talking about PUDs or planned unit developments tonight. This should be a nice refresher. You know, we certainly hope to have more projects in the PUD category here in the coming months. So it's always a good time to talk about this. So anyhow. A planned unit development is a standalone zoning district. So we think of it as something special, but I do want to point out that it's not an overlay. It actually takes the place of the standard zoning that's in place when the rezoning is actually approved for a PUD. So you can see here all of the regular zoning districts listed in this column. You see PUD and STD are a part of that list. So why would someone rezone to PUD? And we've seen this multiple times in the city of Clayton, especially in the downtown area. Again, it's a standalone zoning district that allows coordinated development of a specific larger scale project which might be impractical or impossible. under standard zoning. The big key here is this next part, which is it allows greater flexibility and diversification more so than what is normally permitted in a conventional zoning district. So most zoning districts, if it's a commercial district, we're only going to allow commercial uses. If it's residential, it will only allow residential uses. And a PUD is a great opportunity to have a mixed use concept. And that's typically how we see these developed. So the developers provided flexibility without being bound by those existing zoning requirements. So if you rezone from C2 to PUD, you're basically creating your own zoning, which would allow you again to mix uses and then design the development with some creative building arrangements. So the benefits of course is more efficient site design, lower cost to maintain, preservation of open space and natural resources. And the big one that we're gonna talk about for a little while today is the provision of community amenities for those public benefits that are part of the point system that I'll talk about in a few slides. So how does the developer deviate from the existing zoning regs through the PUD process? Really, ultimately, this is a rezoning. So the Board of Aldermen would approve this and they can approve those alternatives to either the zoning regulations, the subdivision regulations or the design standards in exchange for public benefit as authorized in the zoning code. So the typical deviations we see that developers will ask for or reductions in setback, increased floor area ratio, increased building height. Those are all really standard things where they're looking to pick up a bigger footprint for this facility and in exchange we're looking for public benefits. So this is a really big flow chart if you're looking at it at a quick glance it looks complicated but I'll walk through it here and I think you're all pretty familiar with this type of process but It starts with a pre-application meeting with staff. So a developer will come in with a concept, get some initial feedback, just an overall feasibility check and then guidance on how to get through this process. So a pre-applikation meeting is a requirement in the zoning code. After that pre-applications meeting, they'll then send notice out to everyone within 1,000 feet of that property and invite them to a community conference And at that community conference, they're going to present the plan to those individuals that are at the meeting. Those in attendance can provide comments. They can ask questions. And ultimately, this results in a report that the developer puts together and submits to the city along with their formal application, which is this box here. Once that application is received by the city, staff will review the application. We'll provide comments to that developer. They'll provide another, hopefully revised plan that would meet our standards or address our comments. And then Anissa and Susan will put together a staff report that is then sent to the plan commission But before we get on that plan commission agenda, we do have some public hearing requirements. So as you can see here, all the neighbors have to be notified. So anybody that owns the property within 200 feet, they're going to receive a letter. We also put a publication in the newspaper about the public hearing that's then held at the plan commission. So the plan commission takes up the item. makes a recommendation to the Board of Aldermen. Once that action has taken place, there'll be another publication in the newspaper about a public hearing to be held at the Board of Alderman level. We'll also post the ad. in different places, and we typically post the property as well to let people know that this application is taking place on that site. So BOA will then hold a public hearing or the Board of Aldermen, and then you can see it branches off here. If it's approved, then if there's no protest or a protest petition, which is incredibly rare, Then the approval goes through, the property is considered rezoned at that point in time, and they can move forward with their project. The Board of Aldermen also has an option to postpone the application if they want more information. They can even refer the matter back to the Plan Commission for further study. Mark Benthien, ECA- If there are some items that they'd like the plan Commission to dive a little deeper on. Mark Benthien , ECA- And then of course there's there's denial, which is always an option if the Board of aldermen ultimately design denies a rezoning or plan unit development. In this case, it would be appealable only to the circuit court, that particular decision. So start to finish, the total timeline here is about eight to 12 weeks, especially when we have the requirements in there for things like the community conference, then you're gonna have the notice requirements for both the plan commission and the board of aldermen that tax on some more time. These are large complicated projects. So eight to 12 weeks is a reasonable timeframe for developers that are interested. So any questions on process before I move on to the next slide? very clear. Okay. So I want to talk about the point system because this is where it gets a little bit complicated, especially if you're sitting on the plan commission. And we've seen this with two applications today, first with Forsyth Point and the second one was Bemis in place. We went through this process with both of them. So all PUDs, all planning unit developments shall provide at least one public benefit or combination of public benefits that total at least 10 points. And then for every code alternative that's requested after that, they have to give us another five points. So baseline, every project that wants PUD has to provide 10 points. Every code alternative after that tax on five more. So if you want a PUD and you're gonna ask for two code alternatives, you're gonna have to provide 10 plus five plus five. You're gonna have to give us 20 points worth of benefit in order for the project to be approved. And I'll break down what that looks like in just a second. Just some example, public benefits, so you have an idea of what's in play. Enhanced architecture, which we've seen before. Provision of parks, trails, or bike lanes. We are going to start a master planning process for both our parks and for... Mark Benthien, ECA- bike pedestrian facilities here during calendar year 2022 we're excited about that, but if if we have some infrastructure that's identified and developer puts it in they could receive points for that. Mark Benthien , ECA- provision or enhancement of public infrastructure can be considered affordable housing which we haven't seen today under this. Mark Benthie, ECA- The CEC or the equity Commission is talking about this and seeing if maybe we should allow more than five points. to try to incentivize affordable housing. So there could be more on that to come. But sustainable design and construction, we see this with every project. We do have a LEED Silver requirement. They don't have to get the certification, but they at least have to put in enough features where if they did want to submit that to the U.S. Green Building Council, they would meet that threshold for LEED Silver. But sustainable design and construction is something that's fairly common with these. Dedication to land of the city, we always encourage below ground parking, especially with the podium type buildings that we see here. And then finally public art, which is another benefit that a lot of developers have taken advantage of. So just to give you an idea of how this looks, it isn't crystal clear. And that's what we've seen with the applications to date. There is a range of points that can be provided for each of these public benefits. So just a sample of the table that's contained within the ordinance here. You can see the ordinance section, the point range, so zero to five points can be provided if they have some kind of architectural distinction or significance, some type of uniqueness to the building. We can allot zero to five points for that particular component. And then next you can see the provision of open space, a park, trail access, things of that nature. Again, zero to five points would be the point range. And so for each of these categories that you see here, there's a range of points that are contained within the code that a developer could receive for making those improvements. So here's an example. So this developer here, this hypothetical developer, you can see that we have three deviations that are requested. The first one being height. So in this example, there's a seven-story height maximum. They're proposing 10 stories. So in order to get that again, a baseline of 10 points, then five points for these extra deviations. They also have a setback deviation. And then this is more of a step back, but then you also have a set back Mark Benthien, ECA- deviation here, which is five more points so when you total that out the developer has to have 25 points worth of public benefit in order for their project to be approved. Mark Benthien , ECA- So the developer in this case the hypothetical developer has provided what they believe to be 40 points they're saying I should get five for unique. Mark

Benthie, ECA-

Architecture five for green infrastructure 10 for below grade parking on and on and on, and you can see they're requesting the maximum, which is what you're typically going to see when the developer submits a project. As a part of the staff review process, staff is going to look at these features here, look at what they're actually providing, and then staff will recommend a number of points they think is appropriate for each one of these improvements. So you can see that there's variation between what the developer is requesting and what staff is ultimately recommending. And we did see this with both Bemis and Place and Foresight Point. In this case, they are meeting the requirement. You can see that they're providing 25 points. So the recommendation would be favorable based on the point system. So getting into everybody's role, the developer, of course, is going to identify the areas where they're looking for deviations. They're also going to give us that list of benefits that they'd like to provide, along with an opinion as to why they should receive the number of points that they're requesting for each one of those particular categories. Staff, again, is going to look at the PUD application to see if the number of points are correctly identified. You can see here, review the requested benefits themselves and then make a recommendation as to how many points should be awarded. The plan commission will then take the staff report, the developer's opinion as to how many points they should get, staff's opinion as to many points they should. You're gonna get a site plan, you're gonna get the architectural review information, you're gonna all the things that are in that package along with the staff analysis and it's the plan commission's role to review all of that information and then listen to the comments at the public hearing and ultimately make a recommendation to the board of Alderman for their consideration. Then the Board of Aldermen will do the whole thing over again. So the Board of Alderman has the final approval authority for this because it is a rezoning, but they're going to review the application materials, just like the Plan Commission will, the pre-application meeting feedback, the developers' requests for code alternatives, the Plan Commission and staff's recommendation for the number of points. Again, there was some deviation or some variance between the two on the previous applications. The Board of Aldermens has the final authority for the number of points the developer would ultimately receive for those benefits. There will be a public hearing on that rezoning, and then ultimately they'll decide whether or not the project meets the requirements for the rezoning. And also for the PUD using the point system, they'll vote to approve or deny it, and hopefully that's the end of things unless some type of appeal is filed based upon their decision. So some questions to ask yourself and I'll leave it here and then we can talk about anything that you might want to discuss or you can ask questions or questions to ask yourself when evaluating the proposed public benefits and trying to determine points. So do the public benefits proposed exceed what can be reasonably achieved by application of the zoning provisions applicable to the underlying zoning district? We talked about this with those previous projects, where it was sure you've got some green features are but are they really beyond what you would see in a lead silver building is it really beyond what the zoning district would typically allow. We even talked about things like art to determine how many points they would get for that. To what degree are the proposed benefits useful to the public at large? Again, this came up with public art. Can the community actually engage this art or is it behind some kind of wall where they can just see it? To what degree can you actually interact with whatever they're providing? If you're going to have open space, but the public's not allowed to access that open space, then that should have some impact on the number of points that are ultimately given for that feature. Third on here is the proposed benefit merely replacing an existing public benefit with something of equal value, or does it result in greater value to the community? So again, we're looking at the measure of that benefit. How much are we actually getting? And then finally, do the proposed benefits achieve the objectives set out in the ordinance? So the ordinance, and I didn't copy and paste that portion on here, but where we talk about point systems, we're talking about exactly what we're trying to accomplish, which again is enhancement of that public space and enhancing the public's ability to engage with that particular project. So that's the process in a nutshell. I really boiled it down or I tried two to 15 slides or so, but this does take up a pretty large portion of our zoning code. So there's a lot of reading there if you wanna go through each one of those benefits in detail and look at all that information. But I felt like this was a pretty good overview of how the process works and what to expect when an application is actually submitted. With that, I'll open it up to any discussion or questions. Susan or Anissa, if I missed anything in this presentation, certainly speak up if you think there's something notable that wasn't included. So I'll leave it there.

Okay. David, that was terrific. Having reread Article 10 over the weekend, this was much clearer, much more to the point. And I think it'd be very useful for us to consider your presentation whenever we have a PUD coming up again in the future. I do have a question that I don't think we answered in either of the PUDs that we've done recently. Can the applicant come in and ask for something that does not fit into any of our categories? And if so, how would we handle that?

So I need to pull up my code screen here. Let me do that on my other computer. Unless Susan, you know that section off the top of your head. I know there's some kind of provision in there for

that. If I think I understand your question correctly, The list that's in the code is not all encompassing, it's a suggestion. And in fact, I can't say what the provision is verbatim, but there's also a provision in there that allows the applicants to provide a public benefit offsite. So it doesn't necessarily have to be onsite. An example might be I don't know, land or something for an offsite park. And we've never had anybody do this, but I think it could maybe be in the form of a donation or something of that nature. That would obviously have to be run through the city attorney, but there is a provision to do things offsite and have them count as public benefits as well. I mean, you could do public art offsite if he wanted to. And if you could reach an agreement with another property owner, maybe there's an area of the city that people might perceive as deficient in public art or something of that nature. That would be an option as well. So there's some built-in flexibility from that perspective.

I don't recall any flexibility When we looked at the previous two PUDs. But it's good to hear that because we can always count on the developer to ask for something that may not be included in our list. I don't think

there's much creativity going on out there. That provision was put in there to spur some creative solutions because, you know, we know that property is tight, you know, property is small, land is expensive, development is expensive. There might be alternatives, even tree plantings, you know, in different areas or something like that. There could be alternatives that would work somewhere else and provide a public benefit not necessarily on that immediate site.

Mr. Chair, here's the language here that provides that flexibility within the point system. It's item 16 on the list of available points. Any other public benefit which is determined by the Board of Aldermen to meet the purpose and objectives set forth in 405.1360, which is the purpose statement for plan unit developments. So there is some flexibility. We've just not seen any special requests to date under that provision.

Well, thanks for reminding us of their flexibility. I'm sure we'll be tested in the future. I'm sure we will.

And the number 15 right above it is what I was speaking to and it talks this actually references city owned parks or other public facilities. So again, it's limited to public facilities or the installation of streetscape standards where none currently exists. So for example, we didn't get any streetscape at the new library. Wouldn't that be nice if a developer came in and installed the streetscape there at their cost? You know, so that would be something really cool. I'd love to see somebody tackle the landscaping in front of the post office. I'd give them 100 points if they do that. Public facility and it looks nice. I don't know if you've looked at it, but it's horrible looking and we can't compel them to do anything. So I mean, there's all sorts of creative solutions in my mind if people really put their mind to it.

Good. Thank you. Other questions or comments?

I have just one. And it's kind of probably a big one, but it's more of an ethical one. Maybe that's not the right word. All right. Giving somebody an opportunity to plant down the road when they were supposed to plant on their property. I'm gonna try and get to this as fast as I can, but what I feel like is there are quarters that you can create for landscape and how that benefits wildlife and ecological systems. And to change an ecological system, even if it's a minor one, by saying that you can put a tree somewhere else, it actually affects things. And I think we're not taking a bigger picture in mind here. I don't know. I mean, it's probably not Peyton's fault or whatever, but I just feel like anytime you say that, okay, you've taken out those three trees, but you're allowed to put them somewhere else, that doesn't help what was already created there and how systems have started to...

So are you referring specifically to what Susan had just mentioned about improving something somewhere else?

Yeah.

I would think that the trees on that site would have to be replaced on that site, but then you can get points by going above and beyond and then adding trees somewhere

else. So it's not

necessarily putting somewhere else in lieu of your site. Sorry, Susan. No, no. This is extra points for enhancing another area.

Oh, okay. I thought we were talking about saying that if you- No,

I understand exactly what you're talking about. That's almost like a tree credit. Right.

And I've seen that before in Texas. Okay.

That's

why I was freaking out, but okay. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. A lot of comments, Sam. Perfect. No

problem. Other comments or questions? Bob? Well, unmute.

And that's all I have to say. I always have problems with any kind of rating system that uses numbers for what is basically a very subjective determination, that is the benefits. Is it a two or three or four? There just isn't any mathematical formula for it. And I guess my question is, are there other cities that we patterned this number system on? Are we the pioneer? I

would have to let Susan answer that. I don't have the institutional knowledge on that one.

No, we're not the pioneer.

Okay.

Is it common? No, it's not common. But keep in mind, as with all regulations, especially new regulations, there is a period of time where you're using them and you're figuring out if they work for you or not. And so we are still kind of in that period, and the reason we are is because we just don't have that many PUDs. So I would say get a couple more PUDs under our belt and then take a look at the regulations and see if they're working for us. I will say the one thing about the point system that I like, that I've seen, is that it spurs a lot of discussion. And so while the debate might be about the points, the discussion is about the value of the public benefit that's being provided. And so there's a lot of interest in, if you believe it's five points versus three, there's a lot interest in justifying why the benefit is is of value to you and your opinion. And so from that perspective, I really like the point system because in the past, I think we've just sort of let developers tell us what they think is beneficial as opposed to both boards really contemplating the value of that to the public at large.

Well, I also think that we've grown up with, at this point in time, with LEED. Right. And that's a point system. What has happened here is that we know what the base point is for lead now and certified is kind of like a base point. And Clayton has always wanted to go for silver plus. Right. So I think what you've created here, we all created here is a point system that we can all agree on. and adapt from it and keep growing from it. So I think it's a great thing because it opens up discussion with developers that are kind of like, we don't really need that. So I think I think it's actually a great system for now.

I would say that the alternative Bob that you see most places is they just have a PUD ordinance that says you can have a PUD approved and obtain more flexibility if you provide public benefit period. And so you still have this subjective conversation that takes place at the plan commission and at the elected official level about these types of items. Here we've just taken it a step further and kind of narrowed the subjectivity, if you will, compartmentalized it and focused on these different topics where what I'm used to are these really broad conversations where a developer just comes with a a pile of benefits and says here, um, and you, you read through it just like you would. And, but rather than having a point system, you're just judging it subjectively overall on, on what they're providing. Um, and, and this gives it a little more structure and actually gives them some targets to hit that are tailored to this community. And ultimately, uh, what the board of Alderman felt was important, uh, you know, to this community as, as that system was put together. So I do think that that's a benefit, but the subjectivity, whether you have a point system or not is always gonna be there with a PUD because you're always trading flexibility for that benefit.

Your points are well taken, thank you.

Helen, did you have anything further?

No, only to say David, thank you for an excellent presentation.

Well, thank you to Susan who put together parts of this and past refreshers and things of that nature. So I was able to piece together multiple different presentations and just kind of condense everything into one. And hopefully this was useful to everybody. And what we will do is, since it's recorded now, Susan's given various presentations in the past. We at least have a record of this conversation and we can have a timestamp. We can give both the Board of Aldermen or plan commissioners that weren't here this evening. And we can say, just go to this time and you can get the real brief summary on this process. So I was glad we did this.

Will you send that information out where to find it?

Absolutely. We can provide the link. We actually put these on YouTube now, but we'll provide a timestamp for when that presentation begins and then folks can watch it on their own time. You know, Steve, this is going to become a TED talk.

Well, that would work out well. So thank you, David. Thank you. Very good. Thank you.

Very good.

Well, before we end, let's go around and see if there are any other general comments. Ellen?

Nothing further tonight.

Okay. Bob? Oh. Carolyn?

I want to see your dog that barks.

It sounds so

cute. Where is it?

I think she fell asleep. It's been quiet for a few minutes.

How old?

She's 15 and a

half.

I can send

you

a

picture.

She's a Bichon Shih Tzu mix. Well,

she has a lot of comments apparently. I have no other comments. She's

very vocal, but she doesn't hear. She lost her hearing a year ago. So sight and smell and touch is what she goes on. But that happens when animals get old. And people disagree,

and I'm sure she loves it. So no other comments though.

David? Nothing further tonight. Thank you.

Okay. Susan or Anissa, do we have a 2022 schedule yet?

We do have a 2022 schedule. It is on the website.

It is. Okay. Thank you. Susan, any further comments

tonight? I think Anissa was going to tell you that the TVs were coming back next meeting. Is Did you want to

be? Yeah. So if you remember our session, can

you turn off your thing, please? Thank you. What is that?

St. Louis County had proposed TVs for their public um advertising a couple of weeks ago um so stephanie did look into it um and is that a place where she felt comfortable i don't you know speak the legalese here but felt comfortable enough with the distinction um so that will just be coming back so i just wanted to give everyone a heads up um everything will be the same as previous so just kind of picking up where we left off um susan did you want to talk about your piece

Yeah. Did Patty turn anything into you today, Anissa? Yes. Okay. So it's a park project? Yes. Oh, it's a Maryland park project. Maryland

park. That's correct.

Okay. So that'll be the Airbnb. And then there may be I'm sorry, Ira isn't on the call anymore, but there may be an after the fact front yard retaining wall that will be coming to you. That was Lisa Smith- erected before it got approval. So, PB, Harmon

Zuckerman, Okay. PB, Harmon Zuckerberg, Anissa if we have saved the county TV proposal. PB, HarmonZuckerberg, You would not have to resend it. Is that correct

Lisa Smith- That's correct. I did request fresh ones, they will be the exact same. But I'll go ahead and provide fresh copies to everyone in case you don't have yours or

Lisa Smith- Would be fine with just an electronic I don't know if I can find the other one because we clean and purge all the time. I have no idea if I've kept that. So that would be great if you could just send me the email or I can get it online. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Anything else from anyone tonight?

One last thing for me. So since we might have a long agenda next week, Bob, if you could be the next presenter. I know you were scheduled a couple of weeks.

The standard upon which I am to match, it worries me very much, I'm telling you, but I'd be honored.

Okay. We'll hear Article 1 general provisions, right, Bob? What am I doing?

I think I have zoning.

That's correct.

What

is the date of our next meeting? Just quickly. November

15th.

Okay, thank you. All

right. Okay. Well, if there's nothing else, thank you very much, everyone. We'll see you in two weeks.

Thank you, guys. Thank you all. Take care. All right. Thank you. Good night.