April 23, 2024 — Meeting Transcript

All right, well welcome everybody to our April 23 board of alderman meeting great to see a lot of faces here we usually don't have that so really glad you are all here. We have kind of an exciting start to the meeting our discussion session is to review our. recommendations from the consultant and staff on the comprehensive plan and recommendations that have, you know, really come from the community. So this is the first time that the board of Alderman will get a chance to really look at the recommendations in total. And so the way we're going to work this is we have from now until seven o'clock to deal with, you know, to work on this issue, to talk about it. So we'll get the presentation done. We will then entertain questions and comments from our board. And then with the remaining time, we will be happy to entertain comments and questions from the attendees here, the audience. So if we don't get everyone's comments in from the public, we'll figure that out, then what we can do instead. All right. Thank you. So I will turn it over to Anna and Catherine.

Catherine Hopker, PGAV. Welcome.

All right. Let me say one more thing. Sorry. I just want to also say thank you to those who I know are in the midst of celebrating Passover. We appreciate your attendance tonight anyway and then we'll get on with our presentation. Thanks.

Great, thank you. So hi everyone, Katherine Hamaker. I've talked to every one of you many times, but I'm here again for the wrap up of this whole thing. So what I'm going to talk you through tonight is the comprehensive plan, why it matters, what's in it, some of the feedback we've heard so far through this process, and then there'll be time for questions at the end. So let's

Hold on. We think you have the wrong presentation.

Oops.

Oh, the wrong?

The wrong presentation. You're right. You're right, it says January. Flash drive again. Okay. There

All right awesome Okay, thank you very much so we'll get started let's see here. Alright, so what is a comprehensive plan, I know that i've talked to you all about. Why it's important and why you should participate in this process and why it's a good use of city resources but i'm just going to reiterate again. That it is part of Missouri law that communities have a plan, so it is referred to as a city plan as part of Chapter 89 it's also what provides the basis for zoning, which is a. separate piece than a comp plan but part of what makes planning and zoning um a function of city government it also requires that the comprehensive plan once completed and ready to go that it is approved and adopted by the planning and zoning commission so you all don't have a formal role it's that power has been given to the plan commission however we recommend that you all ratify the recommendation by resolution to just sort of Again, show your support for it and then also signal that you all intend to use it as a guide with your decisions as well. So again, it's a it's a Missouri law that we are following in creating a city plan, getting you all an updated one that reflects what Clayton looks like today. And that that zoning power is a separate piece. So the planning process so far, as you all know, I have come to you several times through this process to talk through various phases. The existing conditions was a really robust six-month long effort to understand what Clayton looked like. So it was all that data gathering to try to understand who lives in Clayton and what land use looks like, how things are changing in terms of demographics, all of those sorts of pieces that wrapped up into an existing conditions report. You all saw it was posted on engage clayton we've done a ton of Community engagement which i'll talk a little bit more about in a second, we then moved into the land use planning phase where we talked about different areas of the Community what they look like today and what we might like them to look like in the future. And then all of that rolls up into a final plan which is full of objectives and key results or recommendations for what policy next steps should be taken by the Community. And that has been guided by the steering committee and then city staff. So throughout this process, we have met with them many times and had regular communication with city staff to get keep this process moving and check in along the way. So this is a lot of words on this slide, but I'm going to review it so you all know exactly how much engagement was done as part of this process. So there was a steering committee of 10 members, and we met 10 times. Those meetings had five regular staff attendees. There was the Engage Clayton planning website, which the comprehensive plan had a section on. So the comprehensive plan section alone had about 2,700 site visits with 260 people contributing that way. We also had a series of surveys, so those happened throughout the process. The first survey was more general about what people would like to see in the future. The second survey was more focused on land use. And then this last survey was on the future land use map and character areas. So you can see that's too much math to do in my mind right now, but we got a lot of responses through those three surveys. We also had three public open houses with more than 300 people attending. We had those ward meetings, so more open houses per ward We had between 55 and 80 people at each of those. Between us, the engagement person on our team, and then the city staff, we had 11 pop-up tabling events. So those were at either existing events like the art fair or they were at the Center of Clayton on a weekend to catch the basketball crowd. So we did 11 of those and reached another 400 people that way. We had a coloring contest for children to participate in the process. We had conversations with committees and commissions, the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council we met with twice, the Sustainability Committee, the Equity Commission, the Planning Commission, and then you all. And then we did 25 stakeholder meetings and interviews. So those were one-on-one interviews with 25 people provided by the mayor and city staff to get a perspective from business owners, developers, long-term residents, representatives from the school district, from other... stakeholders. So all of that wraps up into many, many pages of community engagement feedback, all of which is in the appendix, which is 88 pages long. So I wouldn't necessarily recommend that you read it, but you're welcome to. It includes all of the comments we heard through the process. And so it was our job to weed through all of that and integrate that into what you will then see in the comprehensive plan. So I believe I have talked through this a bit with you all before, but this is how the comprehensive plan is structured. We used objectives and key results as the framework. So the city of Clayton already has a mission. We created some vision statements around what the community said they would like to see in Clayton in 2040. And then there are categories or sort of themes in which the plan is organized, and under those are the objectives and key results. So the objectives are the goals. They're the what we would like Clayton to be statements. And then the key results are those measurable things that will tell us how to get there, so to track those achievements better. And then this systems piece kind of goes throughout so i'm going to run through. Some of these objectives and key results for you um. let me go to the next slide for a second so i'll just run this is sort of the background the overarching piece of the plan the city's mission which you all already had and then the 2040 vision which we worked with the community and the steering committee to come up with you all have seen these vision statements before they're also in the plan and then are kind of used as a um As a guide as we would work on these recommendations to go in the plan, it was sort of our job to say does this reinforce that 2040 vision or not they're kind of a way to check if those steps we are recommending made sense. So the first one I wanted to talk through is housing and neighborhoods. So as I mentioned, this is one of those sort of themes under which objectives and key results fall. So housing and neighborhoods being a theme, and then these four objectives falling underneath those. So these are four sort of goals that we have worked with the community to define related to this subject. So Clayton contains a diverse housing stock providing attainable and quality housing options for a range of ages, income levels, and life stages. Clayton preserves and enhances the unique identity of each neighborhood with relevant and compatible standards. Our neighborhood development patterns embody sustainable principles and seek to minimize impacts on the natural environment and plan for future resilience. And people choose to live in Clayton because it is safe and provides convenient access to first rate schools, services, shopping, dining, parks, and community amenities. so as i mentioned these are sort of the overarching pieces around housing and neighborhoods what i'm going to run through here is some example key results so there are lots and lots of key results or next steps for you all in the city to consider moving forward it is way too many to talk you through all of them today but you can see them all in the full comprehensive plan what i'm going gonna walk through are some examples that maybe you asked about in the past related to some of the data we saw or maybe we heard about it a lot in the public and what i've pulled here is just the key result so for example modify lot size and setback regulations to better align with historic neighborhood patterns where applicable and so then i've pulled some feedback and data from the process that we heard and then have shown you here some things that you all are going to consider moving forward like i mentioned this is a very top line view of everything related to this key result in the plan But I'm going to walk through some of them related to this. So the first one is modifying lot size and setback regulations. So we heard a lot about current regulations allowing projects that are inconsistent with neighborhood fabric so that the zoning rules may not reflect what's really on the ground, which allows people maybe when they Our building an infill has to build something much bigger than what the rest of the neighborhood looks like. And there there's a real desire from residents to retain the current neighborhood character and think about what appropriate info looks like so that's sort of the feedback in the data that drove this key result. So things for you all to consider, and you know some of these are policy next steps that you all would have to take action for. Some of these are something you could direct city staff to spend time on. Some of them might be things you still wanna think about a little longer, and maybe there are a couple of years down the line. But for this one, you might think about investigating a reduction in the minimum lot size for some residential districts to try to get that zoning code to match up with what's really there. You might think about modifying those setback regulations to allow for more consistency with that existing context. Okay, I'm going to move to another one. I'm just going to give you a few kind of sample ones in each section. Again, there's lots more. We heard a lot about affordable housing during this process. 27% of Clayton's residents are experiencing housing cost burden. So that research came from the existing conditions report, you might remember. And 75% of residents that we talked to during this process would trade additional height or density or financial incentives for more affordable units. And so what these data points really told us is that figuring out this affordable housing thing is important to people. So the key result is develop an affordable housing program that utilizes parking reductions, density bonuses, or financial incentives to try to encourage mixed income developments. So for you all, thinking about what that means in terms of geography, is that a set-aside requirement in new developments? What does it mean when you think about the depth and duration of affordability? What would sort of your line be on that? Thinking about how that relates to design standards, what kind of incentives are in your back pocket that you could utilize for this? Or you could go as far as thinking about mandatory affordable housing policies. The next one is establishing appropriate infill standards for building form and materials. So this came from, everyone has a desire for more housing types. We asked a lot during this process, what kind of housing would you like to see as infill and other developments are happening? And people most often said that they would like to see more single family, more townhomes, more duplexes and triplexes and small apartment buildings with four to eight units. So thinking about that, how could we establish appropriate info standards. That create that context in neighborhoods that I know people are very concerned about so thinking about transition standards some communities have utilized transition standards to ensure that info development considers the adjacent properties. Thinking about compatible scale and material requirements, perhaps, including more specific guidelines as part of your urban design districts. And then looking to the character area and future land use map that I'll talk about in a few slides for guidance on what that could look like in different areas of Clayton. And then this one is related to the tree canopy so that's something we heard a lot about during the process, people are, they feel like that's something that makes Clayton unique, the tree canopy is a strength that residents see. Pretty much across the board, everybody would like to see more trees. That's a pretty non-controversial comment that we heard from the public. And so the key result is to review the tree and landscape regulations to further protect and enhance the existing tree canopy, especially during construction activities. That's something we heard a lot about, is thinking about how the policy could be tweaked to make sure that they are implemented during construction, perhaps amending some pieces of the regulations to be more stringent. Okay i'm going to move to commercial development and the economy, I know this is a lot so bear with me it's shorter than than the plan. So commercial development in the economy is sort of the next theme or category of objectives and key results, it includes. All kinds of stuff related to downtown and commercial corridors and what working and having a business in clayton looks like so. The objectives that fall under this theme are the city maintains a strong economic base by supporting commercial development at a variety of scales. Clayton promotes vibrant and attractive commercial nodes with creative enhancements to commercial corridors. The city builds economic resilience by valuing and fostering a diversified revenue space. There is intentional development of areas between residential and commercial uses that ensures thoughtful transition. downtown clayton is active and inclusive place that provides opportunities to live work and play and clayton facilitates development opportunities with a clear regulatory process so again these bigger picture objectives came from the engagement and then the key results that fall underneath each are sort of the next steps that you all or other pieces of clayton would need to take this first one is developing an affordable commercial space incentive program for new development that thinks about parking reductions density bonuses or financial incentives to encourage attainable rents for small businesses and target uses so part of what the research in the existing conditions process was was understanding just what does the retail market look like here and it is just stronger than adjacent communities rents are higher and so it is just a harder place for small businesses to locate. And that's not necessarily a bad thing because rents are higher and you all do have a strong market, but it means that perhaps something needs to be thought about a little bit related to how we can encourage those small businesses that we heard so much about from residents so that they do locate in Clayton. So 86% of residents we talked to were interested in trading reduced parking additional density or financial incentives for some kind of affordable commercial space. So things you all could think about, investigating ways to lower rent and ground floor spaces through trading increased FAR for affordable space, thinking about a subsidy or a temporary grant program or a larger partnership to facilitate that affordable space. This was something we heard about quite a bit during the process. So figuring out what that program looks like in Clayton I think will be important. Another one we heard a lot about was encouraging publicly available open space as part of new developments in downtown, either through updating setback and building coverage requirements or allowing that public use of private green space. People have a strong desire to see downtown as a well-rounded neighborhood, as not just tall office towers, but a place that feels really and like there's sort of a human scale to it. And so people had a lot of feedback about needing to soften downtown with green space and with some other ways to make it feel a little bit more like a well-rounded neighborhood. And so thinking about opportunities to create small scale green spaces as part of new developments, if we could update lot coverage requirements to encourage some open space, So perhaps you allow a small setback in exchange for one more story or, you know, some of those opportunities. And then the other thing is working with private developers to encourage some of that publicly available green space as part of projects. So if they are going to include green space on as part of a development, make it not just for tenants, make it available for use for other folks as well to again create that sort of softer first floor level. Another key result here is creating an incentives policy for developments in key areas to diversify the city's revenue base. So you all are very familiar with the city's revenue based, but it is heavily reliant on sales and use tax and property tax. And so because residents feel so strongly about maintaining high levels of service and the level of service that they get today, figuring out how as that cost is increasing the Budget in Clayton can also increase, I think is an important thing. And residents also thought it was important. So thinking about residents were open to considering incentive use in specific situations in certain places and to encourage certain uses. So considering the creation of an incentives policy that would encourage some of those things we heard a lot about. So entertainment uses. Significant sales tax generators in areas that would have minimal impact on surrounding residents. So those geographies in the Community that might be on the edge and maybe not near a lot of homes. And then filling vacant storefronts this connects back to the previous one as well, people like a thriving first floor environment and feeling like the city is lively so figuring out how to use incentives to encourage the things people consistently talk a lot about wanting. This next one is related to roadways. And so one of the things we heard a lot about, and this connects also to the livable communities plan, which is going on right now as well, is prioritizing roadways in downtown for different modes of transportation. So having some sort of bigger plan for how to deal with pedestrian and bike safety, figuring out that so that we have enough connectivity and roadway flow that we are still going to be in a You know, an attractive office and business environment. We need people to be able to get in and out. We need people be able to get their deliveries through the restaurants. Developers see downtown and the street network there as a positive, as a piece of downtown Clayton feeling like an environment that is lively. And so all of those pieces are an important part of making sure that we figure out how to prioritize And so we are recommending that you think about coordinating improvements accordingly so based on what roadways are prioritized for various users. The comprehensive plan speaks to in coordination with the livable communities plan which roadways makes sense to prioritize for automobile traffic that plan also speaks to bikes and pedestrians as well. But again, thinking about how to just be strategic around making sure that all modes can safely move through downtown as a way to encourage those different uses we want to see. And then the zoning regulations. So this one's a little bit wonky, but incredibly important. Revising the zoning regulations to remove the conflicts between the base zoning and the overlay districts. So there's a lot of that right now. The city has 13 zoning districts, two TOD overlay districts, and 10 other overlays. So it is just kind of a web of many different regulations. And so the current system creates a lot of confusion and a lot of conflicts. a lot of recent developments have utilized a pud which also creates more inconsistencies with current zoning and so we'd like you all to consider aligning the zoning code better with the community goals and development patterns so you know when we talked earlier around setbacks and changing lot sizes to fit more of what residential patterns are today this is a piece of that is thinking about how we can get the zoning code to better align With what people would like to see so it requires less modifications and disagreements, it might also reduce the need for for pod use in the future. and encourage easier implementation and me maybe mitigate some of those development barriers that some of the developers, we talked to during the process that was a tricky part of working here. The next sort of big picture theme is transportation and connectivity so thinking about development adjacent to metro link stations being designed using to the principles to increase density and capitalize on transit access. That clayton fosters a vibrant environment public environment that encourages Community connections and that clayton is a multimodal city with networks that provide safe, comfortable and convenient transportation. So one key result from this section is encouraging redevelopment and reuse of the Forsyth Gateway area adjacent to the Metrolink station. This is part of the community that many, many people pointed to when they thought about if Clayton looked different in 2040, you know, what areas do they think of? And this is one of them. The lack of public respondents indicated public transportation as a weakness in Clayton, the Existing conditions report proved that very few residents use public transportation here. And there was a real desire to encourage a mixed-use approach near that Metrolink station. So thinking about revising the TOD overlay district to encourage that type of development, supporting housing development in the area, and then thinking about if design standards might make sense to try to encourage the type of development you'd like to see. Um, the next one is related to the livable community master plan. So coordinating with the livable community Master Plan to identify priority areas for widening sidewalks to allow for safe pedestrian access as well as outdoor dining and additional green space in place of on street parking. So 80% of community members when we asked voted for wider sidewalks and outdoor dining space in favor of on street parking And so thinking about the recommendations in the Livable Community Master Plan regarding new locations for outdoor space where we could really create that lively first floor that people are looking for and trade that out for maybe some on-street parking where possible. And then from your perspective is thinking about land use changes that would encourage this type of creation of space. So when you're thinking about future developments and changes to the zoning code and things like that, Trying to coordinate that with where it might make sense to widen sidewalks and create these pedestrian zones, so that you all are supporting the kind of development that makes sense. And then the last one is Community character, so this is sort of the last bucket of objectives and key results. clayton government is a regional leader with mutually beneficial partnerships with adjacent governments and institutions. Clayton is a dynamic center of economic and cultural activity for residents, businesses, and visitors. Our colleges, universities, schools, and institutions play a leading role in the cultural, social, and economic fabric of the Clayton community, and Clayton is on the forefront of planning for a sustainable future. one of the key results i wanted to highlight here was updating the public art master plan to include strategies for aligning public art and private art adjacent to public spaces throughout downtown so you all did a 2017 update to the public art masterplan that's something we heard a lot about through this process we'd like to see more art we feel like art makes downtown more interesting a desire for publicly accessible spaces as part of private development so sometimes private developments have interesting public art on the first floor but it's not really accessible to the public so considering a strategy or some guidance related to encouraging those private developments to allow public access that's you know could be related to that public green space access we talked about a few minutes ago and then also guidance related to large-scale public art like murals or temporary art you all don't have a ton of that now but it's something that's come up in the past and so that wasn't addressed in your public art master plan from 2017. So thinking about how that piece might be furthered as part of an update. and then um and the key result is ensure clayton has a strong identity that is reflected in the built environment so residents feel a strong sense of community and attachment to clayton you all know that they feel very strong about their neighborhoods where they live some people have lived here for generations parts of the community have a distinct identity and residents feel really attached to that place and so part of what we're suggesting is that you all think about some new gateway treatments at key city access points. So as you all are thinking about development and entrances to Clayton, what's the opportunity to kind of make sure that the Clayton identity is within the built environment. Also thinking about branded wayfinding signage in downtown as we've sort of transitioned away from CBD and into downtown as a more well-rounded neighborhood, thinking about how that shows up in the built environment. And then adding character elements in individual neighborhoods that might speak to some of the desires for public art or the desires for infrastructure like bike racks and how could those things kind of blend together to add some flavor and character to neighborhoods that feel that strong sense of community. Okay, I'm going to move us into the next section. So that was all of the objectives and key results that I'm going to review with you tonight. Again, that's sort of the framework for the plan. Those are the policy steps, recommendations that you all or others are going to have to take moving forward. In addition, as part of a comprehensive plan requirement is a future land use map. And so we have been working with residents and with the steering committee, and with you all, and with city staff to come up with a future land use map for the city. I'm going to reiterate again that this is not a zoning map. This is a future land use. Map. It is a vision for how we would like the community to look in the future. This you're seeing right here, a revised version, revised in the last week or so. Again, I'll let you look at it for a second and then I'm going to move to the next slide because in addition to the future land use map, which again is a geographic way to lay out the community and think about what land use is moving forward look like. We have also defined character areas. So this is an additional layer of defining kind of unique areas in your community to add to the future land use map so that we can get some of those unique features kind of context specific characteristics about different parts of Clayton that maybe wouldn't be reflected in just a future land use map with 10 different land uses. So what you'll see in the plan itself is that we run through each of these character areas and each one has a vision statement, which we've talked to the public about. They also have some sort of context characteristics related to height and bulk and massing, the built environment, the land use mix, sort of the kind of look and feel of the area. And these were built based on feedback from residents. What did we hear about why they love where they live or what did we hear about? Why they moved to Clayton? So all of that is kind of baked into the character areas. And what the future land use map and the character areas allow us to do is throughout the plan document, when you see objectives and key results, some of them are specifically associated with certain character areas or certain land uses so that we could align some of your strategies a little bit more specifically to parts of the community. As we've discussed many times, there are really different parts of Clayton that feel really different from a built environment standpoint. And so a lot of your policies are not applicable everywhere. and so that was the goal with the character area piece was to really define different parts of the community so that next steps could sort of be tailored accordingly the plan also includes a density map which sort of gets at connections density transitions potential redevelopment areas some of those pieces that we talk about throughout the process and again this is sort of layered on top of the character areas and layered on top of future land use maps then help to provide the basis for what you do with those objectives and key results and then the last thing which hopefully you all received today is the implementation matrix and this is sort of This is your guide. When you all think moving forward what to do with this big document, I recommend you flip to the back to the implementation matrix and you think about all of the objectives and key results, how they connect to the vision statements, when you should take these next steps, who's responsible, whose support you might need, all of those things. But it's really a guide for you all to think about how you should be making policy and how you should be implementing projects. You know, we have recommended that you all review this annually at your strategic planning retreat at that process. And really, ideally, you would take these papers and you would say, planning department, this thing says you're going to do it in the next year. We would like you to spend staff time doing that. That is a policy goal for us for this year. And we're going to do our part to do the Board of Aldermen piece together. That goes with it to make that step happen, there might also be some that are a couple years down the line that you want to check in on and see you know, is this still a goal for us do we want to sort of reallocate where we're thinking about. Resources or timeline do we need an additional partner to make this happen those kinds of things, but hopefully this implementation matrix will serve as a guide for you all when you're thinking about next steps, both for policy and for development decisions. I think that's what I've got. It was a quick run through and it's a lot, but I'm happy to answer your questions.

Great. Thank you so much. I can say I'm still working on my big deck. I've got most of it, but I feel like I need to do it all again. There's just so much in there, which is great because that'll be a really valuable tool for us. So great job on this. I know it's been a long, it's been a year essentially. Yeah. Great job, and great job to staff too, obviously. So again, what I said before is we're going to let our board kind of ask you their questions and comment. And then if we have some time after, we're going to hopefully get in some public comment as well. So we'll see how that goes. So I'll just go in order of seniority, and I'll start with Alderman Berkowitz.

Thank you. Thank you for that presentation. Appreciate that. um and i hope for the people who are here that everybody understands this is a recommendation it's uh it's a um it's a it's sort of a recommended plan for us to look at over the years uh i guess i guess up until 2040. uh and and it's not in stone it's not something that people are anyone is forced to do and the board of aldermen still has a great deal of discretion with respect to not only what gets done that is consistent with the plan, but how that gets done. A couple of questions that caught my attention, especially as you were talking. In order for us to get some of the things we really want, I'm a big supporter of us getting entertainment downtown. Okay. And it's been very difficult to get that. I've been advocating for it for nine years. Okay. And I think part of the problem is, of course, as you mentioned, we have a high cost for small business to move in. Some of these entertainment venues don't have a great profit margin, and so it's sometimes difficult. So then we need to work on incentives, and you have that in the plan. You say that, and I appreciate that. I guess I would hope that we could get something a little more specific from you As part of the planning process as to what it is we what are our choices, what are real choices for getting that kind of vibrancy going on weekends in downtown you know I go to downtown and the weekend Saturday Sunday and. I don't look I don't look both ways, you know it doesn't I don't need to right um. There's nothing on the streets. There's nothing going on. And it's not the case for other vibrant communities. So my question to you, though, is do you have suggestions for how we can establish entertainment in the downtown area?

Yes. So there's a few key results that speak to that, because that is something we heard from you all, but also from the community quite a bit. One of them is the liquor license regulations, is thinking about those and how you could perhaps rethink those, alter them a little bit in certain areas.

We've already done that. What else can we do?

Okay.

We haven't gone the full...

Not the full, but right. But we know that the alcohol regulations are something to address for sure, and we've already... we've already lowered it for entertainment venues, the food amount, the food ratio. for entertainment venues. And sure, we could go further. It's possible. I'm not sure that's what's stopping it. I'm not so sure what's...

We also talked to developers about why haven't they developed certain uses in Clayton? And obviously the market plays a role and there's things that are out of your control. But a lot of people did speak to the burdensome approvals process that exists here in Clayton that maybe doesn't exist in some other communities. And so we have recommended some ways that you all could perhaps ease that process while still giving you the protections that you need to make sure that the end result is what you want. So there's a lot of recommendations in the plan around that because that's probably the biggest thing we heard from developers is that it's hard to develop here.

My next question has to do with your recommendation that we somehow avoid this inconsistency of zoning that goes on in our downtown with our different overlays and our PUDs. Okay. I just want to address that if we're going to provide or be able to insist or help the developers do some things for public benefit, it doesn't help us if we don't have some leverage when it comes to a PUD. Because that has consistently been our area of leverage. That's where we can say to the developer, well, what are you doing? Can we get four units of affordable housing? OK? If you do that, then we can provide you with a PUD. Now, so I'm saying, is it your recommendation, though, that we avoid no longer have a requirement for builders and developers that they would have to come to us for a PUD? Yeah.

That is not my recommendation. My recommendation is that you all clear up the inconsistencies with the overlays and the underlying zoning that create that confusion and development barriers. Maybe that would make some folks not go the PUD route because it's a little clearer for them, but I think for big, complicated developments, the PUD route is almost always going to be the route they go because it does allow for that give and take.

It seemed to be that's what you were saying in one of your things here, so you could look at that The last thing I want to talk about is that for everyone to understand, and I had said this in one of the meetings, and I thought everybody was buying in, which is we are not interested in changing zoning in any neighborhoods where the neighborhood is not approving of that change. Okay? I think that's an important tenet for everyone to understand that we are not interested. not interested in in that and i think this goes across the board i'm not looking at just what happened last week for some of us on the board receiving news of of that map but i think i'm talking about future maps and the way that this happens in the future and it should be part of this this 2040 plan which would indicate that neighborhoods need to buy in if we're going to make a change they need to buy in they need to approve they need to agree

Yeah, I just want to clarify again that it's a future land use map. It's not a zoning map so that I just want to verify that those are two separate things. Zoning requires a process for rezoning properties. That is not what that map is or will be ever. I will also say that the future land use map was circulated at a lot of public. forums um and the survey was another way to get people's feedback and so we got people's feedback and the map has been updated so i think that that is exactly how the process is intended to work

right and i think that has to be also understood

great

okay okay thank you

all

right

alderwoman mccandrew

I Catherine. Thanks for all your hard work. I know we're pretty short on time, so I just have a real. I just was curious your thoughts on. I think that you and your team and city staff and people on the board worked really hard to get engagement from people. Do you feel like the engagement was good from the community? Do you feel comfortable with, I mean, I feel like a year ago we talked so much about how we could reach a lot of people. Do you feel good about what we got back from the community in terms of the amount of feedback?

I do. I feel like it was a very wide swath of the community. Given that you

have experience doing these kind of planning projects. I think

we talked about it early on in the process that you kind of have to cast a very wide net because One person is going to come to a public meeting and one person you're going to catch at the Center at a basketball game and one person you are going to catch up the art fair. And so you have to catch a wide net in terms of different kinds of ways to engage people, but I do feel like we heard from a lot of different people. During this process, so I think it was a very reflective picture of the Community,

thank you.

All the women peace. I want to join in that thanks it's been a really thorough process and a lot of work put in by the steering committee by you all by staff. And the data, even the profile of our city I just found so informative in the work I still struggle a little bit. When I look at the percentage of youth and knowing that we have wash you and some of the percentages knowing we have the justice Center here which populations interact with our Community in a different way. and residents, and how to keep that in mind too as we go forward. But that data that is presented so clearly is really, really helpful going forward. I want to commend you too. I think that the engagement was incredible. People that I think have never gotten involved in politics, and typically you get the line that, which I appreciate, that we trust you to do it, which is exactly why people are elected. I would see or I would bring to the open house or something else or some event, and even the last survey Which certainly got people's attention got exactly what we needed was that neighborhood input that you were talking about, and there was a quick response to it. And everything transparent on the website for people to see exactly where everything was coming from so it's really solid work and. much easier to defend as we go forward and make our decisions as the planning commission makes its decisions. So thank you to everybody on that. It is really a challenge if we're looking at wanting more green space, wanting more retail, wanting more of this and that, and we're so developed already. And so how do we do that? And what has to give for something else to come in is going to be something that we have to look at in the future. And the entertainment, the problem with that too is it's a chicken and the egg. If somebody's here, somebody else comes and how do we start changing that? We need to do it, but it's really a challenge. And I think the little communities work will help that as well as we look toward more open streets. And again, the vibrancy through that. I don't have a lot of actual questions because it's all here and I've got to delve through it more and more. But I'm really, really impressed with the work and it's going to help. It'll make our job tougher because there's a lot to work with and be accountable for, but it'll make it a lot easier too in knowing the direction the community wants to go. So thank you.

Thank

you.

Alderman Patel. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for all the work. I've been impressed with the work that you and the team that you assembled has done the entire time. And the final document is just really impressive and exciting. And I know we have a lot of different like committees and boards and commissions across the city. that are excited about digging into this as not just what they individually want or anecdotally have heard from their circle, but what's really rooted in an extensive outreach and like data gathering about what our community as a whole wants. And so that's exciting. I do have one. So I have a couple questions around, I have like lots of ideas and lots of little questions but I don't think that they're Necessary to get it answered right now and but i'm curious about on the future land use map. Are there many things on there that are different from the current conditions that we have today.

So there's a side-by-side in the plan of including land use and future land use. There's even a side-by side graphic where you can see how the pie has changed slightly. I wouldn't say that there are substantial changes in the existing to future. It's, you know, there's not that many opportunities for redevelopment areas, right? Right. There are less than a handful. And so those reflect some changes around future land use based on what they are today in the future. But the percentages don't shift a whole bunch.

Okay. Yeah. Thanks. And I'm interested in... One of the things that I'm really excited about and hope we can address sooner than later is some of the regulations that don't match existing conditions. So we've run into this in Ward 1 where my house and my lot, which is over 100 years old, does not conform with the zoning regulations, which is the case for most of the houses in Hillcrest. And as a result, we're getting these like... really big houses because of the minimums that are in place. And so, um, I'm really looking forward to us addressing that because I think one of the big concerns that people that I hear from folks, um, as I like try to dig deep into like, what's the real, like, what's But like, what are we really worried about? And I think people are worried about that scale and the lack of preservation of buildings that could be preserved, like that aren't actually decrepit and stuff like that. And so I'm not, I have not made it through every recommendation yet, but are there examples or recommendations you have about how to actually either require or incentivize like preservation over like demolition and new developments?

There is discussion of that. I'm trying to think of the...

I know there's one because it's a part I really like where we actually, there's a program where you do incentivize not demolishing an old home. So then you would actually, the fee would be increased if you... knock down like an older structure and that extra fee might go into a fund to help preserve older historic structures. I thought it was a great idea. It's around page 60. Okay.

Thank you. The historic district ordinance you all have on the books that no one has utilized. There's some recommendations around that, you know, figuring out if that ordinance hasn't been utilized, what could be tweaked around it, make it utilize so that it would do some of those things around preservation.

Yeah.

Right.

It's in there as a voluntary and no one's ever really used it.

Yeah. So I think the last topic I want to raise the question for you is this question of, there's this real tension that I feel as I consider this, which is what appears to be a really strong interest in um the allowance for increased density and which like may or may not be tied to affordability i don't want to pretend that that is a like direct relationship because i don't think it is necessarily although it creates the opportunity probably more easily and so the the tension between that Like strong desire and recommendation that we heard from our community, and the fact that when individual neighborhoods are identified what we what we saw here in Clayton was like a very strong and immediate opposition to that and. And like, I know that's happened in other communities. And so I'm curious about what you've, how you've seen that tension resolved, or if you have examples of like how, um, you know, to Ira's point, like, uh, like where neighborhoods have actually bought into it, like, or what, how does that, how

I think the places in Clayton that it works the best are where those sort of middle level densities are used as transition areas. And so I think that is your best bet at adding more density to your community outside of big density that might go downtown. If we're thinking about neighborhoods, I think that middle level of density, maybe it's row homes or something like that, where we're talking about 10 units or less, for example, are the places where density could get added and have minimal impacts on people's really strong association with their community.

So does that get at the, you use the term transition standards? Is that like that section in that topic? The

transition standards are more, they could be used in that way. When I think of transition standards, I think about it more related to architecture and to ensuring massing and homes An infill house related to the ones next door. Yeah, I do think the idea of transitional uses is a really important piece for Clayton so whether it's institutional users that kind of buffer on Maryland between old town and downtown. Or it's maybe a medium density residential I think those sort of corridors where single family is buffered with those medium density residential options is the easiest place for you all to think about added density

okay. And so I think, though, in the revised future land use map, we have basically removed that. I mean, is it fair to say that that's why certain neighborhoods were identified in that way because they seem to fit that transitional nature? Yeah.

Yes, I would say that as part of the struggle of creating a comprehensive plan for a community is that you've got to balance resident desires with what a professional urban planner might think is best versus what you all think is best for your community and sort of meet in the middle.

Thank you.

Okay,

Alderman Gary Feder.

Alderman Fader.

So it's my observation that of the seven residential zoning districts we currently have, five of them provide for multifamily or two-family. And in fact, if you look at the statistics in your report, City of Clayton is not lacking either in multifamily or two-family. It's actually substantial, probably more substantial than most people realize. So one of the things that the documents that we have were dated April 9th, so it was basically two weeks ago. And we have not seen revised versions. I don't think there are revised versions other than the land use map. One sentence that interested me in the future land use map, in the document that underlined when you had the prior recommendations, it said exclusively single family areas have been limited in the future land-use environment as compared to the existing land-use map. That I think translated into changes in the Clayshire subdivision, the Morelands and Davis place. That's where those changes were made. I happen to think if that was the premise of the original report, I hope that premise is no longer in your revised report because that seemed to drive this concept.

Yes, that has been updated.

It is, I will say, my opinion that that is not an objective goal And in part, it's because I think your documents and many times talk about people who are proud of their areas, the characteristics of their areas. And I think just for example, in those three areas, you took 100 year old subdivisions with established land use patterns supported by existing zoning and suggested they all be changed. And that's why all of us heard so much in the last two weeks, of which I suspect 95% of it was unfavorable. So I hope that that concept is not in your future document. I do think there's always room in our community for more townhomes, for more affordable housing. I think we're trying to address that through our PUD. I think there are areas in Clayton, particularly not in established areas, 100-year-old in which there could be more townhouses. But I hope that as this plan moves forward, that that is a concept that we have dealt with and put behind us. So... One more question. I'll shift to the economic business side just for a moment. But just because you're a national firm and you experience these things, one of the things we've seen in development projects in the last year and now consistently time after time is development that we thought was going to go forward is now stalled because of lending problems and other issues. I think we, all of us, all on the board were very proud in the last few years that we have said no to incentives consistently. Said we don't do that. In part because nobody asked us to two years ago and in part because Clayton's a thriving market. But now I think we find ourselves having to deal with that question. Are we going to loosen up this? It sort of goes to Alderman Berkowitz's question at least on a focused area like entertainment. But We may be in a position now where we do have to think about if we want things to happen in Clayton, we may have to loosen our opposition to incentives as a general theory and begin to look a little harder at that. And I wonder what your sense is in the last few months. Are you seeing that in other communities that there is more of a willingness to at least under certain circumstances consider incentives?

I think it can be a really useful tool for you all to get what you're looking for. That was a big question we asked residents over and over and over. you all have traditionally not utilized incentives as a tool. So we asked them in lots of different situations, would you be willing to trade this? Do you think incentives are worth it for this? How, you know, sort of where do you fall on this spectrum? And I think that's a lot of what's in the plan is residents' feedback on that very issue so that you all could, when something comes before you that you really want to make happen, at least have that tool in your toolbox to think about using.

One final comment, notwithstanding my criticism of certain aspects of the plan. It's a remarkable product. It's 168 pages, and they're very big pages with a lot of material. I hope that whether it's these slides or in some other fashion, there will be some kind of executive summary so that people can somehow try to get what's the real gist of this without having to look at this Terrific document, but overwhelming for most people to read.

Yes, there will be an executive summary and then the implementation matrix that will be sort of your like eight page quick guide.

Great. Thank you.

Given the time, I'll be extremely brief.

Just say whatever you need to say because I think everyone else did. So you just take your time and we'll start a little bit late if we need to.

I appreciate that. First, my compliments on the format. I like the way that the themes that you've captured and the way that you've identified the various goals and tasks underneath them. So I think it's a very comprehensible document. Second, I want to applaud you on your engagement with the public. I was concerned that this would be highly reliant on online or survey activity only. And so I participated in a number of the engagement sessions. And so I believe you've really gotten a cross section of the community. And obviously we've got a lot of community members here. So your message is being heard. received. I guess rather than ask you a number of questions, I would ask about some of the next steps. So one is, are you available to clarify things that aren't in here for some period of time? I assume so. And then if you could identify big picture next steps in terms of how much time we have to consider this, how much time the community has to consider this for additional feedback, when does it need to go to our plan commission for approval?

Well, we were hoping to gauge tonight to see exactly where the board was with things, if we were on target with those themes or not. And if that's consistent with what you've been hearing here in the community, and it sounds like for the most part, aside from the future land use map that's had the adjustments, that seems to be the case. So we need to talk internally about it, but we'd like to have this in front of the plan commission within the next month or so.

OK, so I have no objection to that. But there are a number of things that are in here that it would be helpful to have some clarifying comments. As an example, we talk about affordable housing and more affordable commercial space. And then you identified various ways to achieve that. Some are very obvious, but there are others like you use the term set aside programs. What's the impact? Who is that impacting? What does that mean? How have people done that successfully or where has it been contested legally for those kinds of things? I don't want you to answer that now, but it's the fact that these things are in here and I don't want it to be open to just anybody's interpretation. I want to make sure that we all understand what did that mean.

Right. Okay. That would be great if you, I know we've received some comments from some older people, but if you all want to send those to David or Anna or the mayor, whoever, and that can make its way to me, that would be great.

Okay. That's all.

All right. Thank you. Um, we're a little bit over time, but this is an important topic. So I just want to give it a little bit more time and those who are here for the seven o'clock, just hang with us. Um, I do want to just say, I'm not going to ask a lot of questions. I do want to again, compliment you. And I want to do a yes. And for all of the comments that have been made by this board, um, who've spent a lot of time, especially Bridget, who's participated in this whole process, um, working on this and thinking about it and so many great things were brought out um i also want to just give us the city of clayton kudos for a taking this on uh and b you know our community and the land use that we currently have i know we can improve it always can improve things but we are the envy of so many other communities if i look around i read the paper about what's happening In Chesterfield or wherever, they're trying to create a town center with businesses. They're trying to build homes around it. They're trying embed schools within those neighborhoods. I mean, we have it already. And so I want to stress that we need to protect what we have that is good and not just change for change's sake. I agree about our historic neighborhoods. I was really so thrilled to see in this document that there is a lot of alignment with the way a lot of us think about our historic neighborhoods and that they are valuable and they are a reason why people want to live in clayton um and also some alignment with the things we've been talking about such as entertainment which we've like you said been advocating for and trying to get for you know nearly a decade um and and just the idea that um you know the whole impervious thing you know that people are recognizing that you know hey a one This is affecting the character of our neighborhoods when we build homes that are really within our code, but much bigger scale. It's also affecting something that I see Mr. Lichtenfeld in the audience. He, as the head of ARB, we have talked about this many times. It's contributing to water issues and flooding issues in our city. So we need to get a handle on that. We need to to try to do something and it's great to be able to move forward knowing that we have that community support because you know will impact what can be developed so anyway um just wanted to get those things out on the table thank you very much i'm wondering if one and then i'll i'll talk about public comment i'm wondering if there's so much here I feel like I'd like a lot more time to talk about it as a group. I don't know if others feel that way, and we could talk about it as group with the staff or, and I know we're gonna discuss it somewhat in the retreat, but I just want us to think about, we can decide it later, if we wanna have another session to talk about some of the more details in this and the recommendations, because this was lightning speed. And I think not everybody's had a chance to really fully absorb these two big documents, plus they're going to change a little bit. So if we could just think about that and we can decide later. We have public here, and I know that a lot of you are very anxious to comment on this plan. I'm going to give us until 715 for that. And then we have to start a public meeting, but we will. during the public comment session of that meeting, also entertain some further comments if need be. So Catherine, thank you very much and we'll get some. So two things about this public comment now. One, we need to make sure that it's civil, constructive, and not really getting into personal stuff about people or places or things. Number two, again, if we'll have people come up, you would make sure the microphone is on and then state your name and your address. So we have that for our public record. And then thirdly, people are going to come up. If you have something different to add to what the person before you has said, or the people before you have said, that is great. If you do not, I would ask that you simply nod and whatever, clap or whatever you need to do, but don't just repeat because that will just elongate and it will keep others from getting a chance to speak. So we'll just take someone who wants to go first.

Earl Bradfield, 8025 Maryland Avenue, Maryland Walk. Just had a quick question for the consulting team that worked on this project. Since zoning is a major instrument in In doing the comprehensive plan itself, I was just wondering what type of zoning they're considering or have considered. Euclidean, farm-based zoning, or incentive zoning? I did hear a little bit about incentive zoning, and I think the land use map does separate different types of uses. That would be Euclidean. I wasn't sure if they looked at farm-based zoning or not.

Farm-based, okay. I can let you, yeah.

So deciding on what kind of zoning would be a next step as part of this process. Again, the comprehensive plan is just a policy document that planning commission would be adopting to guide sort of your decisions in the future, but any steps related to zoning would need to be a separate process. So we've made some recommendations around cleaning up some inconsistencies and doing some other things to make things a little bit more reflective of what is, but we did not make any recommendations on the type of zoning.

Okay, very good. Thank you. Yeah, next.

Thank you. I don't know if you could hear me. Thank you, everyone. I appreciate all the work that has gone into this. I just want to bring to your attention. Can you state your name and address, please? My apologies. Marshall Edelman, 724 Audubon in the 7400 Morelands. I did not. I did go to the last committee meeting for the steering committee. I did not see anyone from the 7400 Moreland's there. in on the committee and it affected 207 residents um i appreciate you all listening to the petition that one of my neighbors initiated within two weeks 260 plus people that should show you um how the comprehensive plan previously did not incorporate a lot of people weren't aware frankly um and that has been everyone has been telling me I would also bring to your attention the settlement of the single family owners of the moorlands plot historically there was a lawsuit between the single family residents in the moorlands plat to that is how why it is currently the way it is. The revised plan changes the parcels west of glenridge avenue to allow for multi families in the in the plan map that was just published recently. i'd bring to your attention that those parcels provide a buffer between the massive multi families at the bottom of the hill. which is a flood zone. And so if we add more multifamilies to the Moorlands, it will increase the watershed to the bottom of the hill, which is the lower Moorlands. So I would bring to your attention, Alderman and committee members and whoever listens to this, to keep the new revised plan wants to make those two families that are zoned R3 into multifamilies along the adjacent parcels west of Glenridge Avenue. That would be bad for a couple reasons that I mentioned, and I'll keep it really brief now, is they're next door to Glenridge Elementary School. And I think that it would be bad to have a high-rise condominium apartment. Ms. Patel mentioned affordability. I would advise Ms. Patel that there's a current quote-unquote affordable plan to build condominiums in Clayton. It is currently proposed for the lot of... that I'm sure you're aware of. 139 North Bemiston Avenue for the affordable price of 2.7 million, you can own a condo in an affordable multifamily. That is more than I paid for my house three years ago and I bought a single family affordable home here. On the weekends we go out of the city to Brentwood to their beautiful new park. We go to Brentwood for the hockey rink that we no longer have. We go to Brenwood and Kirkwood for the civic centers that we don't have. We go there for pools that we don't have because we share it with the high school, which we love the high school. Don't get me wrong. We love the kids there. But it would be nice to have a separate pool for families to go to. I think if we can create more use for families, that will build our community better because I've heard the word developer more times tonight than the word family. Thank you. Thank you.

Dean, thank you for all the hard work you guys have done. My name is Alberto Del Pilar, 7464 Cromwell Drive. I've lived there since July 2011. To the extent that this is what the 2040 plan will be a public document, as I understand it, you know, cities about 17,000 residents at most, maybe 3,000 people, albeit a wide swath, and we're engaged. I strongly recommend that any statements that read 75% of residents, 86% of community members be revised to reflect the accurate proportion, if not the absolute number of people responding or expressing those concerns in the interest of accuracy and transparency.

Very good. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Rebecca Scott. I live at 7400 Buckingham Drive. I'll be really fast. I help with the survey in our neighborhood. I know a lot of you guys have talked to you and you were very helpful in supporting us. But my biggest frustration with it all is that we put a lot of work into the survey, getting out the feedback. neighbors text chains neighbors put together flyers handed them out and then fast forward to the steering committee meeting and it was like not even acknowledged it was crickets no one acknowledged that there was opposition my neighbor handed out um the petition no one mentioned it and instead we heard more pushing for the duplex development or you know two family homes so i would just encourage you that when we are you know creating committees that we're getting a diverse viewpoint and that people are doing it to be a voice for the community and not to push their own personal agenda.

Very good. Thank you very much. Wait, one more minute and then we'll switch to seven o'clock. And then you can stay for that if you like.

Okay, thanks for the one minute. One of the things that I as I read through this to brought myself up to speed because I wasn't involved in the earlier conversations. I'm sorry, Eric Ralph 74 or 35 part there. You assume that. Thank you. The book, the thing that was most difficult for me is I didn't understand the goal. Like so as you walk through some of those things it's not clear to me, I understand development like what you guys are voting on later today the hotel in demand is awesome. Right and that's wonderful to see those kind of things happening what i'm concerned about and what I don't understand is how does. increase density, improve the economic situation of Clayton. And that needs to be really clear if that's something that's going to be something that people want to understand. How does that diversify the revenue base? How does it bring more people downtown? When I saw the bit about I would love it if I had that conversation with neighbors and friends who live in all the different wards. And how do we get more people downtown and engaged? And how do we make it a warmer community? So I was thrilled to see that, but I hadn't seen that before tonight. So the last thing I have is how do we get a copy of 186? Do we do an open records request? How do we get it so that we can see the entire document and be well-informed?

I know it'll be posted online, but I'm gonna let you answer that.

It's on engageclayton.com under the documents tab. Okay. Find the draft plan there.

All right. Thanks. Appreciate it. Okay. You guys, thank you. Please, again, if you didn't get to speak, I'm sorry, but we do, we're, we posted a seven o'clock meeting. It's now after 715. We have to go ahead and break into that. If you would like to stay, we will allow some time in our public requests and petitions part at the beginning of the meeting for you to make additional comments. But again, I would urge if they haven't already been made, only those comments. Okay. Thank you so much.

Hey, Tyler, haven't seen you in a while. It has been a little while. Yeah. I'm glad

oh um everybody here

we're still broadcast i

Good evening, everybody. Welcome to those who have just joined us. And we've had a very lively discussion about our comprehensive plan, which is really important for the city and really proud of the fact that we've got it done. And it's got a lot of great stuff in it. So anyway, we will now go on with our seven o'clock meeting. And will the city clerk please call the roll?

Alderman Berkowitz. Yes. Aye. Alderman Andrew. Here. Alderwoman Buse. Here. Alderman Patel. Here. Aldermen Gary Feder.

Alderman Berkowitz. Yes. Aye. Alderman Andrew. Here. Alderwoman Buse. Here. Alderman Patel. Here. Aldermen Fader.

Here.

Aldeman Rick Hummell. Here. Mayor Harris. Here. City Manager David Gipson.

Aldeman Hummel. Here. Mayor Harris. Here. City Manager Gibson.

Here.

City Attorney O'Keefe. Here. Thank you.

Okay, very good. At this time, I want to just take a minute and recognize a very valued member of our community who has recently passed away. Gary Sewell. Gary was, he practiced law in St. Louis until 2023 and served on our Clayton Board of Adjustment for many years, serving as its chair for 20 years from 2000 to 2023, over 20 years. And during his distinguished legal career, he also served as assistant prosecuting attorney in St. Louis County. He was a founding member and past president of the Collaborative Family Law Association of St. Louis, and he represented clients in family estate planning and other small business concerns. He was a longtime volunteer and committee chair with the adult daycare program at St. Louis Jewish Community Center. And I just would like to have a few seconds, few moments of silence for him right now and appreciating how much he contributed to our community. Okay, thank you for that. I do want to then switch gears for a minute from our business meeting, which will start soon, to allow anyone else from the six o'clock hour to make a public comment regarding the comprehensive plan. Your comment was not already made by someone else that got up and spoke so if there's someone anyone who has something additional to say about that plan or the process, please come forward to the podium give us your name and address make your comment.

Hello, my name is Chris me as I currently live at 800 South Hanley. But for 28 years prior to that, I lived in the Moorlands. And like many of us here tonight, I appreciate the historic nature of homes in Clayton and agree that we should do everything to encourage our preservation. I agree that we shouldn't allow oversized homes on residential lots, be they single family or duplexes. And I also agree that we want a plan for housing stock that allows for young families to move to Clayton. In fact, we moved from a single-family house in University City to a three-family condo in the Moorlands in the 7500 block of Byron when our daughter was entering middle school. Our initial impetus was in finding an affordable option in the Clayton School District, but we discovered there were many more advantages to living in a multifamily building. Rick was one of our neighbors, and getting to know him was one of them. But there were other things, duplexes, multifamily, make way for young families and aging seniors, which I am now, to share chores of home ownership with another family. We were especially lucky at one point to have a neighbor who was an accomplished gardener since we couldn't even keep a house plant alive. So we had plants growing. And I share concerns that a developer is going to come in and change the character of a neighborhood. That happened in Clayton. You only have to go to Clayton Gardens to see how that happened. Developers are just as likely to come in and tear down historic homes and put up single family homes as they are duplexes. I think we have this vision of the duplexes looking like those row townhouses on Gay Avenue, but the beautiful duplexes that are on Glenridge and scattered throughout Davis show us that there's all kinds of them. In fact, today I checked Zillow and 55 Crestwood, your neighborhood there. That house was torn down and it's replaced with something that's going to be $3.5 million. There's a house at 8116 Kingsbury that's being listed for 2.5 million. So these very expensive homes aren't necessarily limited to duplexes coming in and changing the character. Those giant homes are take up a lot of permeable space. I can attest to the fact that my daughter, who lived in the 7,500 blocks of the Moorlands, was safe riding her bike. She had friends who lived in duplexes in Davis Place and had just as much fun playing with them as the people who lived in Brentmore and the people who lived single-family homes a block away. And that's what I loved about Clayton. And that's why I'm still here fighting for people to find room in their hearts to have one or two families living next door to them. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, anyone else? Yes.

Hi, everyone. My name is Ren Ju, 7451 Jeffery Yorg Drive. Thank you, everyone, for giving me this opportunity. But I have a quick question because when we proposed the plan to change the 7400 block more land to the multifamily, did we have the research on the economy side? For example, I mean, first, the school, the Greenwich School. City of Clayton, why I moved here is because we have the best education. We are the best elementary school, there is no doubt. And here is so safety for every single one of us to live there. But if we change our single family to multifamily, do we have enough space for the children to go to the elementary school? And also the teacher and the students ratio, for example, I say one teacher per 10 students. And right now, due to the budget and all the more students there, we may need to hire more teachers here. And that's also a cost for the city. And this may change the teacher and student ratio. So that's my biggest concern. Suddenly we changed to from the... single family to multifamily. I'm not sure if people propose this or have this idea, did the research on the school. Otherwise, why is the city of Clayton's elementary school is the best in the Missouri? This will be doubted. So I would love to say no and I hope all the community will say no to suddenly change the single family to multifamilies. Also second concern is It's also the, I say the value of the housing, because a lot of the people living on the city of Clayton, on the moorland, the single family housing, we pay those people, they get their money from the daily, they're working so hard. But suddenly we told them, hey guys, we need to change from the single to multifamily. And this will change the... I mean, the housing value. So is that because we try to bring more people and we need to kill all these people's home value? Is city going to reimburse? I don't think so. I think every single one of us working hard to keep our home value there and also keep our community safe. And so that's why I highly recommend the city will not resume in that place. Thank you.

Hi, everyone. My name is Ren Ju, 7451 York Drive. Thank you, everyone, for giving me this opportunity. But I have a quick question because when we proposed the plan to change the 7400 block more land to the multifamily, did we have the research on the economy side? For example, I mean, first, the school, the Greenwich School. City of Clayton, why I moved here is because we have the best education. We are the best elementary school, there is no doubt. And here is so safety for every single one of us to live there. But if we change our single family to multifamily, do we have enough space for the children to go to the elementary school? And also the teacher and the students ratio, for example, I say one teacher per 10 students. And right now, due to the budget and all the more students there, we may need to hire more teachers here. And that's also a cost for the city. And this may change the teacher and student ratio. So that's my biggest concern. Suddenly we changed to from the... single family to multifamily. I'm not sure if people propose this or have this idea, did the research on the school. Otherwise, why is the city of Clayton's elementary school is the best in the Missouri? This will be doubted. So I would love to say no and I hope all the community will say no to suddenly change the single family to multifamilies. Also second concern is It's also the, I say the value of the housing, because a lot of the people living on the city of Clayton, on the moorland, the single family housing, we pay those people, they get their money from the daily, they're working so hard. But suddenly we told them, hey guys, we need to change from the single to multifamily. And this will change the... I mean, the housing value. So is that because we try to bring more people and we need to kill all these people's home value? Is city going to reimburse? I don't think so. I think every single one of us working hard to keep our home value there and also keep our community safe. And so that's why I highly recommend the city will not resume in that place. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Any others with something that hasn't already been mentioned?

There is a hand up online. Oh, okay. Yes.

All right. Linda online. Would you like to comment?

Oh, you're muted. Okay, you can hear me now, right? Yes. Okay, great. My name's Linda Auburn. I'm co-owner of 6607 Clayton Road. Our family has been there for over 70 years in the High Point area. Looking towards the future, we would like this board to consider the impact of the proposal of the land use of the entire Clayton Road Old CBC Wash U property as mixed use. We feel this proposal would have a huge impact on all the surrounding multifamily and residential properties that are located on the adjoining blocks of St. Rita, Seminary Place, Alamo, and San Benito. These properties surround three-fourths of the Wash U property. The back of the Wash U has a very high elevation and if a developer created a mixed use building of two stories or more, it would have an impact on the quality of life of those living in the surrounding properties. there would be issues related to elevation to the back part of the property, such as lighting, noise, and aesthetics. Most importantly, because of the high elevation of the back three-quarter of the property, any new buildings of two stories or more would overshadow these properties on San Benito, St. Rita, and Alamo. Because some of the current Clayton properties are situated way below the elevation of future development of the Wash U property, they would receive less sunlight and living environment would be like living in the shadow of a developer's mountain our suggestion is to zone the front part of the old cbc property which is approximately one-fourth or a hundred and fifty feet of the total property along the frontage of clayton road to be mixed use It would be in line with the other properties along Clayton Road from Big Bend East to Clayton City boundary that are proposed. Then for the back section of the Washington U property, which is approximately three quarters of the land, make it residential, multi-single, it doesn't matter. This would be more aesthetically pleasing and appropriate for the character of this area. It would be advantageous if the entire property could be reduced to street level when it is developed so that there would be no issues with any development on that back three quarters of the property that adjoins San Bernardino, St. Rita, Alamo and Seminary Place. Please consider that land use be split on this old CBC property. Thank you for your time.

Thank you very much. All right. So anyone else that's here that wanted to make a comment that hasn't been made about the plan, the proposed plan, I should say. Okay, very good. Thank you all. Thank you all for coming. We don't have another hand. Okay. All right. We are going to commence with our regular agenda. So this is your chance if you want to escape um now's a good time otherwise we'll be here talking about uh starting with our oak knoll park roof replacement okay um one thing i um and and we will do um i didn't call for this but uh public requests and petitions from the audience any other public requests or petition any other public comment on any other topic that's not on our agenda tonight From anywhere okay very good um I do just want to mention right off the BAT that there was some talk already this evening about tree canopies and stuff we have just just been awarded for the 30 I think it's the 31st year. tree City USA once again, and that's something you know that it's a quite an honor and it speaks to our ability in our our our Determination to keep our tree canopy and all of our plantings in our parks and right-of-ways in really good shape Okay. So to start off we have some unfinished business Number one Oak Knoll Park replacement roof project for the second reading if the city manager would like to report

Yes, thank you. The city of Clayton entered into a lease agreement with Clayton Early Childhood Center for the property at number one Oak Knoll Park, effective January 1st, 2023 for a term of 10 years, plus an option period for an additional 10 years. The lease agreement specified that the city is required to replace the roof prior to January 1st, 2025. To that end, bid documents for number one Oak Know Park roof replacement project were issued on December 1st, 2023. The scope of work includes removal and replacement of current roofing system with the same slate tiles. Removal and replacement of current copper flashing gutters and downspouts with the same materials, as well as the repair of defective underlayment as necessary. The city received three responsive bids for the work on January 25th, 2024, and the lowest bid was from Vince Gray Slate and Tile Roofing Company in the amount of $653,494. After some clarifying questions, the city received an amended bid from the company in the amount of $609,847. The Board of Aldermen first read an ordinance approving a contract with Vince Gray Slate and Tile Roofing in the amount of The ordinance is on the agenda this evening for second reading and final passage. Staff also recommends that any approval contain a $65,000 contingency, which would bring the total approved project amount to $674,847. Okay, very

good. Thank you. Okay, I think we will, I know we voted last time, but we will go around and ask again if our board members have questions or comments they'd like to make at this time. And I'll start with our senior Alderman Berkowitz.

I've made comments last time. I guess I'll just somewhat reiterate. I think the... This is a tough decision for this board. We have budget issues. We've had budget issues for the last few years. We will have budget issues over the next five, six, or seven. And so to be able to pay for this up front is definitely a consideration and something to look at. My biggest issue with this is we have a 100-year-old building in oak knoll that is one of our gems of our city and to this is a kind of a slippery slope if we end up taking that roof and somehow now minimizing its its quality minimizing its aesthetics um and now affecting the uh the overall building i just i feel strongly with with the fact that the aesthetics It's something we should maintain, and I think that sort of overrides my concern about the budget. But it's a concern, and anyone who has a concern as well in that respect, I don't blame. I know that there's been some discussions about sustainability, about solar, and whether or not that's possible on the roof. I know that in this area, some people have said they haven't been able to put solar on this roof. You know, I just don't think that's the biggest issue either because, well, first of all, I think you can put solar on slate roofs. And I know that I had a contractor who offered that to my roof. Um, I also had an experience with fake slate, uh, back in 2006. Uh, it was Da Vinci slate. It was fake, but it was put on and it did not work and it did not last. And it became a subject of a class action suit, and the manufacturer had to pay out. So I don't have a confidence in terms of longevity for the fake slate. So that brings me back to, okay, then... We know what slate does. We know how long slate can last. My roof's 100 years old, and the slate on that roof that did not get hit by a falling branch or hail did make it through, and it's still good. And so that experience tells me that slate, I think, becomes the choice for me.

Thank

you.

Bridget, go ahead.

Yeah, I mean, as Ira mentioned, we've already kind of talked about this a little bit. I am still uncomfortable spending more than twice the cost to put a brand new slate roof on a building that I understand that the city owns it, but we lease it out. It is a beautiful building. It's a gorgeous building, but I don't think putting faux synthetic slate tiles will detract from the beauty of the building, will detract from The Beauty of Oak Knoll Park. I think there are a lot of, we have a lot of projects to do in the city and I just think it's irresponsible from a budget standpoint to spend more than double um on a roof that yeah and again there have been discussions about the fact that we're gonna you know have this roof paid twice with uh fake slate tiles um over the 100 year um duration that a true slate roof would last, but it's difficult for me to project 100 years out. So I'll just reiterate that I think we should be spending the money on other things that I think our community would value more. So I would still like to see us pursue the faux synthetic slate tiles at the reduced cost.

Okay. I appreciate the comments before me, and I'm still coming out very similar to Bridget. And I was looking, obviously submitting questions, trying to get more information is really, really helpful. And the information we got was that, in fact, there were over $38,000 of repairs spent on this roof over the last, I think, 10 years that I didn't get an A. I don't know. Can solar, I know this was asked, can solar panels be put onto the slate roof? We got a bid of 25,000 roughly on the faux slate, but I didn't see any response to whether that's even an option on the slate.

Tony can come up and she can also clarify what the roof quote expenses were for the roof repairs. The roof repairs were actually a gutter repair and something else. Yeah, that was at number two. Okay, so that was what

we,

yeah,

okay. So I guess I'm getting mixed signals about if you can put solar panels on a slate roof. Yes, I believe you can. Yes, it will be more expensive because there is more engineering they would have to do to make the slate roofs sustain the weight of the solar panels. But it is possible, but it seems to be more expensive.

And my Google searches, which are so anecdotal, mean significantly more expensive where it can be done. But I don't have anything more than that. So I guess my concern is I think that I would hope, and I don't think we have any choice, but the energy issues will become more and more important over the next hundred years. And if it's something that's feasible, both economically and structurally, is really the question I think we need to know and and we haven't i'm not comfortable with that yeah um okay thank you the other the other thing i want well maybe you'll know this one too i was also this has that this is not as directed to what our decision is today but i guess it is with the contracting when uh we talked when he asked about disposal of the slates that are coming off and all the companies said that they would simply go to the

Both companies, the low bid for the slate and for the faux slate both indicated that while they could reuse some of the tiles, both of them would take them to a landfill. And there is not currently a local market for reuse slate either as roof tiles or something else as a recyclable product as of right now. We

talked about even whether it could be right, recycled, whether it could be crushed or something else that's a natural product. And you're saying no, it actually goes into a landfill.

That's what they both said. They both indicated that. And a different contractor had told us months ago that, quote, if there was a market for recycled slate, he would be a millionaire. So, yeah.

And then the last question was one of the, some of the information you provided is that if the money, if that several hundred thousand dollars was saved by not going with the real slate. Your priority would be to use it to waterproof the foundation of this building, which I thought that's an optional, that's a deferred maintenance

or what's the story? That is probably a better way to put it is we would be not deferring that. So currently in our capital improvement budget, we have $175,000 for waterproofing the foundation. And that is only the portion of the foundation near the family center's playground that which is purported to be the part of the foundation that is having the most issues right now. So I guess if it was up to us, we would do the entire thing and not defer the rest of the maintenance to a later date. And we're working on getting those bids right now. And the first one we've gotten is already over that $170,000.

We're addressing where we know it's already leaking and we're not... What we're addressing... Okay. Yeah. Okay. I think that... Okay. Thank you. Slate is beautiful. I was also involved, as I shared last time, I'll be quick, is that at least 10 years ago the school board went through the same thing with their old buildings and they used a faux slate or something. I don't remember what the product was but I haven't heard anything since and I think it has worked and it was significant savings. Given all these issues that we do have in our capital budget, given our talk about still wanting EV stations, about needing to change our fleet from gas powered blowers to whatever there is a lot that the city budget would like to support and sometimes deferred maintenance will need to support and i given that i can't um i can't support going with the slate option

um if i could just interject one thing because i did send some information to tony that i had gotten from uh a former Clayton resident who owns a solar panel company, he did a complete analysis of putting solar panels on this particular building. And you can put solar panels on it. The time to do it, whether it's slate or faux slate, the only time to do it is when you're replacing the roof. Because otherwise, you have to take tiles off, whether it's faux slate or regular slate. You have to remove the tiles, install it, because you don't want to drill through either of those types of roof materials. And so the costs he gave on that, and I thought maybe you might send it out, but I can share it with everyone. It's a big, hairy analysis. But it was $25,000 for either material. The roof on that building, I think, is... A building is built to hold slates, so it's going to hold weight. The weight of a solar panel is not going to be an issue on that roof. So at any rate, just to clarify that one small thing. Okay, so you're

saying that the cost of solar on slate or faux slate is the same? If you do it at when you're replacing the roof. And then the question I would have, the feasibility part, is if we're spending several hundred thousand dollars more for the slate roof, would we be willing... to add to that the $25,000 to add the solar panels. Because again, are we feeling the urgency today of energy responsibility or not? And if we're not, then it's not possible in that particular room.

Well, and I was just saying, you know, it seems like a sort of a minimal cost to add on, you know, but so I don't know that I would have any issue there. But I think the question I would want to ask is then is it an investment that pays out? you know, so will the solar panel investment produce enough savings in energy to make it worth the investment there? Right. Okay. So that would be my question, which I don't know that, you know, Tony hasn't really investigated that. So I think I got an idea from our former resident, but... Now might not be the time to go into all that. That's helpful. So anyway, yeah. Go on, Alderman Patel.

Thanks. I was not at the last meeting because I had a friend get married at this time two weeks ago, literally. And so I was there celebrating with her. But I did watch the recording. So I got to hear everyone's discussion and appreciate everyone's input. My position is based on the uncertainty of the use of the building in 50 plus years. The significant opportunities I believe we have in deferred and unfunded capital projects. And those are the main two things that inform my decision. I was really wrestling with this and didn't feel like it was while I felt like pretty clear in what I wanted to do. I, I wanted to get more input. So I surveyed like a whole bunch of residents just for just like through outreach, um, and got a bunch of different feedback. Um, it was mixed, like it wasn't unanimous or anything like that, but actually the most common response I got was put the faux slate if it means you can put solar. Um, and I think that, um, I think that the truth is that like our climate is in crisis and we're not acting like it, but it really is. And I don't know whether we want to take the time to do a financial analysis to determine the impact of solar panels on our budget. But what I do know is that all of these kinds of value-based decisions are, even when they don't have like a dollar for dollar payout, we, especially as like leaders, community leaders believe government elected officials, I believe have a responsibility to think also of the indirect impacts. So like every time we save by using a plastic bag, we are actually like creating this plastic waste that goes on and nobody is responsible for that cost. So you can't always make like a cost benefit analysis. What I hear overwhelmingly from our community is an interest in um in considering the climate and considering how we are ensuring that we will um have trees and like like our grandchildren and their grandchildren will have a clayton that has parks and trees and fresh air to breathe and so um So that combined with just the fact that like this building does not have strategic use that we can point to in 50 plus years and the significant unfunded and deferred capital projects that we have lead me like very clearly to not support the installation of natural slate and not enter into a contract to spend $610,000 on that. Okay, thank you. Alderman Gary Feder.

Thanks. I was not at the last meeting because I had a friend get married at this time two weeks ago, literally. And so I was there celebrating with her. But I did watch the recording. So I got to hear everyone's discussion and appreciate everyone's input. My position is based on the uncertainty of the use of the building in 50 plus years. The significant opportunities I believe we have in deferred and unfunded capital projects. And those are the main two things that inform my decision. I was really wrestling with this and didn't feel like it was while I felt like pretty clear in what I wanted to do. I, I wanted to get more input. So I surveyed like a whole bunch of residents just for just like through outreach, um, and got a bunch of different feedback. Um, it was mixed, like it wasn't unanimous or anything like that, but actually the most common response I got was put the faux slate if it means you can put solar. Um, and I think that, um, I think that the truth is that like our climate is in crisis and we're not acting like it, but it really is. And I don't know whether we want to take the time to do a financial analysis to determine the impact of solar panels on our budget. But what I do know is that all of these kinds of value-based decisions are, even when they don't have like a dollar for dollar payout, we, especially as like leaders, community leaders believe government elected officials, I believe have a responsibility to think also of the indirect impacts. So like every time we save by using a plastic bag, we are actually like creating this plastic waste that goes on and nobody is responsible for that cost. So you can't always make like a cost benefit analysis. What I hear overwhelmingly from our community is an interest in um in considering the climate and considering how we are ensuring that we will um have trees and like like our grandchildren and their grandchildren will have a clayton that has parks and trees and fresh air to breathe and so um So that combined with just the fact that like this building does not have strategic use that we can point to in 50 plus years and the significant unfunded and deferred capital projects that we have lead me like very clearly to not support the installation of natural slate and not enter into a contract to spend $610,000 on that. Okay, thank you. Alderman Fader.

I guess, maybe for everyone's benefit who's sitting in the audience or home who doesn't quite know what we looked at maybe it's worth considering we started with a slate proposal that was the original proposal that was brought to us because it was by we asked the staff to then look at two alternatives. which was faux slate, tiles, and then an asphalt or architectural shingle. Those are the three alternatives. I think my sense is through our three or four meetings on this that the asphalt shingles were felt to be not a good alternative. So it really has come down to whether it's slate or faux slate, those are really the choices. At the last meeting, I supported going with Slate. I have not heard anything that would change my mind. This is a historical building. It's one of the very few buildings that the city owns and really has control over. I mentioned last time that people are always saying about, why can't you guys keep Clayton, the historical parts of the Clayton, the way it is? And invariably, our answer is because we don't own those buildings where we can regulate, but it's up to the market. And so that's why Clayton doesn't look in many ways like it used to. But I think this park and this particular facility is unique. It's a historical building. It's a beautiful building. I actually, it was helpful to see materials on the leases actually suggested to me that They're very viable uses for the next 25 years because they have solid tenants. But I don't see any reason to believe that they cannot be in 25 years leased to somebody else or who knows in 25 years that they're beautiful buildings and the city may not have a use for them. We own them and we ought to, as far as I'm concerned, preserve them. I think with the exception of the solar panel issue, which we'll get to in a second, I think slate, everything you look at says is the most sustainable of those three alternatives, more sustainable clearly than the faux slate. With reference to cost again, you know, we're talking about from our capital improvement project. We're not talking about something for five years. We're talking about an investment. Everyone will tell you slate roof 70 to 100 years. So I think when you think about it in those terms. I'd rather save $200,000 right now. I don't think it's quite half the other bid, but it's a significant amount in the short term. But in the long term, when you look at it over 75 or 100 years, I don't think cost really is an issue. If there is a way to somehow keep this building with slate and with copper, which is the way it looks, If there's a way to combine that with solar panels, I have no problem at all with the fact that I think in the city we've made more of an effort in new construction to encourage solar panels. I don't think there's any problem with that at all. I think that's a good thing, but it's a lot different when the issue is, are you going to be driven by whether you can or can't and what cost is involved with putting a solar panel on a 100-year-old historic building? I think it's a different question. Let me just conclude by mentioning the letter we got, the mayor got at the last meeting, which was entered into the record by Alderman Berkowitz and which nobody quoted from, but I think it's worth mentioning It's worth mentioning at this point that was sent by Andrew Weil, who's the executive director of Landmarks Association of St. Louis, and basically said that it's come to his attention that we were considering what to do with this roof and considering asphalt tile, shingle or asphalt or faux slate. He said using either one of those would be a mistake for several reasons. Asphalt shingles and faux slate are petroleum-based products which are antithetical to the sustainability initiatives that the city retains as a priority. Such products, while expedient and cheaper, have a much shorter lifespan compared with natural slate roofs. Though using such products, you will save money in the short term for the city of Clayton. But over the course of a century, you will need to replace the roof several times, ultimately resulting in a net loss for the constituent of the future. Slate is a natural material that typically has a lifespan of well over 100 years, barring severe wind or hail damage. Your great-grandchildren will be the ones making the next decision about how to replace the roof you're contemplating replacing today. I would encourage you to replace the original material in kind. Not only will this retain the original beauty and architectural intent of the building, but ultimately fulfill your fiduciary responsibilities to present and future generations of Clayton citizens. That's just one man's opinion, but I think it's a very important one and it's one I would support. So I will vote yes on slate. Thank you.

Okay. Mr. Rick Hummell.

Okay. Mr. Hummel.

We face many choices when we are asked to look at the budget or spend money from our capital improvement fund, whether they are improvements to this building city hall, whether it's construction of the new public works building, whether it's improvement of our streets. And in all cases, we have cheaper alternatives that we could go to. But we look to what's the best value, I believe, in the long run. And so while I think these two choices are both valid choices, I think the long run value proposition, the responsible position for us to take is the slate roof. I think that I could have my mind changed if we thought that these buildings were somehow going to be subject to some alternative use, sale or demolition. But I don't think any of those are on the agenda. We are committed to lease these buildings for at least 10 and maybe 35 years. So given that we're in this situation that we are, I think the most responsible decision is to look over the long run. And I believe that's the investment in the slate.

Thank you very much. I'm not going to belabor it too much just to say, I think, you know, I agree that Slate is the right choice because, you know, we have an opportunity to hit the triple bottom line of social, financial, and environmental sustainability with this decision. And I think we can preserve some of our history, be environmentally conscious, and also again over the long term save money. So I would say that we may be ready for introducing the Bill unless you're in any oh okay sorry about that.

Hello, my name is i'm Kathleen gun they live at 329 North bemiston avenue and I just want to say that i'm i'm really pleased that this discussion took place. And in fact, it was kind of good that the bid came in way over budget because if the bid had not come in so much over budget, no one would have actually questioned why was there a half a million dollars in our CIP plan to replace our roof, our roof on one building. Well, that may not be true. It may have been questioned anyway, but go on. Okay. But I, I raised

the question and I did it because it was 200,000 over budget. Yes.

But it was put on the CIP at a half a million dollars for slate. There wasn't like a, you know, At that point, it didn't seem like there were questions as to whether or not, but whatever. And I'm also recalling a discussion of maybe a few years ago when there was some question about the brick sidewalks in downtown and how much those cost per intersection, and it came up to be $300,000. And it was like, oh, that's a lot of money. Okay, we'll do it. And there was not a lot of discussion. So I think that this is a move forward for the board to actually start questioning some of the things that we're doing with our money. And I think everyone made fabulous points. You can talk about whether or not sustainability with the slate and the fact that it probably has higher transportation costs and potentially, well, obviously, higher costs for actually getting the slate and mining the slate or whatever you do with slate. But let's just say we are talking about a roof and we are talking about the difference of $300,000. And it just seems when you're throwing around the term fiduciary and we're thinking about future generations, well, why don't we spend the $300,000 to do, I don't know, the waterproofing of the basement of that building? Or I actually brought up there's... The 10 South Brentwood garage needs third level concrete repairs at $101,000. We could do that instead of putting a slate roof on. We could also replace the floor in the Shaw Park Aquatic Center at $75,000. So there's a lot out there that could be done with this $300,000. So I would, you're probably not going to do it, but I would just say, why don't we go with a low bid? I think that's a super terrific idea. Thank you. Thanks for your comments.

Okay, I think we're ready. Any other public comment on this? Okay, no hands are up online. Okay, very good.

I do have a procedural question. If I want to move that we amend this to add the solar roofing at approximately $25,000, you'll let me know when I do that?

If I could. That's an estimate the mayor had from a conversation. If we wanted to amend anything or add that to a contract, we would need to bid that portion out.

So, but if we don't do it with the... You need to get a

true cost for that improvement.

Okay, so if we don't, we could do that then after, even if we approve this today without that, we could then bid that before we actually sign a contract?

Absolutely, because there's a lead time on the slate. Remember that we heard about

that. I just don't know how long the contractor might hold the price while we work that out if we're waiting to sign a contract. Well,

all I'm saying is we could approve this tonight and we could then... It's going to take a while to get the slate and do this. We could then go out for a bid on the solar panels and always add that feature to this without disrupting the

calendar. Theoretically, yes. I just don't know what the lead time is on slate. I know that we are contractually obligated to have it done by the end of December. Vince Gray said that they would do everything within their power to have it done by the end of February because that's when the roofing labor contract expires. So there is a possibility if it goes beyond February, it could be more. And I just don't know. I have no idea the timeline of the solar panel installation. Yes, there is a lengthy lead time for the slate.

But

we would have time

to figure that out. The question, though, was whether or not we would hold on the contract. until the panel information is, until we have that. But we would need to sign that contract to get it moving and then follow up with an additional.

And just talk with them about being able to do that. Okay. I mean, part of it, not to belabor it, is the comments that this is a more sustainable alternative. The timeframes you gave were 65 to 100. Is a bigger timeframe how long it lasts? If it's going into a land dump, that argument's not there. Sustainable alternatives, really. We really need to take every step we can to be sustainable. So I would like us to pursue that. But go ahead. Okay, great. Thank you,

Tony.

I just have a question. The $25,000, was that installation cost or was that including the actual solar panels as well?

It was including installation and the panel. And the panel. Okay.

All right.

Actually, the way I remember it was, it was around 35, and then it had a federal reimbursement of 10. But don't quote me, please. Okay. I'd

like to introduce Bill No. 7017, approving a contract with Vince Gray Slate and Tyler Roofing Company, Inc., for the No. 1 Oak Knoll Roof Replacement Project. We read for the second time by title only.

Second. Any other discussion? Mr. City Attorney.

Bill number 7017, second reading and consideration for adoption. An ordinance approving a contract for the number one open park roof replacement project.

Alderman Berkowitz?

Aye.

Alderman McAndrew? Nay. Alderman Buse? Nay. Aldeman Patel? Nay. Aldman Gary Feder?

Alderman McAndrew? Nay. Alderman Buse? Nay. Aldeman Patel? Nay. Aldman Fader?

Aye.

Aldeman Rick Hummell? Aye.

Aldeman Hummel? Aye.

Mayor Harris? Aye. Okay. We've got our decision and... we can look into solar panels for this roof. And I would request that we look at the payback factor as well, even though it may not be our decision. So may not impact our decision. Okay. We are now needing to start our public hearing for the Hotel de Mun. I will open the public hearing and request proof of publication.

Yes, this is a public hearing for review and consideration of the rezoning and related plan unit development for proposed mixed use development. The rezoning, plan unit development, and subdivision plat are being addressed together in this report, though the plat and the land use elements entail separate ordinances in the board's agenda. The project received architectural review board approval and the plan commission unanimously recommended approval of the site plan, subdivision plat, rezoning, and development plan on April 1st, 2024. The 11,052 square foot site includes two parcels located along DeMunn Avenue between South Roseberry Avenue and North Roseberry Avenue. The properties have a zoning designation of C1 Neighborhood Commercial and are currently developed with three-story mixed-use buildings and one-story accessory structures. The proposed project consists of the consolidation of 726 and 734 DeMont Avenue, renovation of the existing buildings, demolition of the rear accessory structures, and construction of a new rear addition. The proposed development measures 24,338 square feet, which is three stories above grade and includes 24 hotel rooms, 2,894 square feet of retail or restaurant spaces, five onsite parking spaces, and agreement to lease 30 spaces from Concordia Seminary. Access to the onsite parking and back of house areas is provided from the alley. The main entrance to the hotel is on North Roseberry Avenue. The applicant is also requesting that three adjacent street parking spaces are converted to restricted drop-off spaces. Pedestrian connections to the hotel and retail uses are provided from all three streets, and the existing city standard streetscape will be maintained. The proposed development is a mixed-use PUD. The project seeks relief from certain development standards that are set forth in the current C-1 zoning district. The current required development standards and the proposed modifications to those standards are identified in a table contained in the packet. The Board of Aldermen may approve alternatives to the zoning regulations, subdivision regulations or design standards applicable to the property proposed to be rezoned to a PUD in exchange for developer provided public benefits. The number of requested modifications to the development standards drive the number of public benefits that the developer is required to provide. All PUDs shall provide public benefits that total at least 10 points. The developers shall then provide public benefits totaling at least five points for each additional code alternative requested. The project has two requested code alternatives, therefore a total of 20 points are required for the project. A table provided in the packet outlines the public benefits identified by the applicant and an analysis prepared by city staff. The plan commission voted to recommend the staff point analysis to the Board of Aldermen, which totals 21 public benefit points. Staff believes that the proposed project meets all the criteria for approval, including compatibility, internal and external circulation, parking, and design and layout. The proposed project will provide a proportional mixed-use development on a prominent block in Daman. The development is of a use and massing compatible with the surrounding area. The introduction of hotel use is likely to contribute additional foot traffic and patronage for the businesses located in DeMunn. Staff are of the opinion that the proposed plan conforms to the requirements of a PUD and provides an appropriate number of public benefits. Staff recommends that the Board of Aldermen approve the rezoning and plan unit development per the required development commitments set forth in the ordinance exhibit C, Hotel DeMunn PUD document. Staff further recommends that the Board Of Aldermen approved the subdivision plat with the conditions set forth in the Ordinance for Adoption.

So all right, thank you and I will open the discussion i'm first just ask if there's anyone online or in our audience that would like to comment on this project, other than the developer. Yes.

Thank you. I'm Sally Hetzel. Since 2010, I live at 6233 San Benito Avenue. However, I first moved to this neighborhood at 6328 Northwood across from Captain's School in 1979. When I first moved here, it was just the beginning of the conversion of many of these buildings from absentee landlord rentals to privately owned condos. By 2005, when we did the work for the National Register of Historic Places, we found, for example, that 14 of the residential buildings on Northwood were all made up of individually owned condo units. But there was a lot of restoration that led up to that. I totally understand that these historical buildings need a lot of updating and a lot of salvaging. I'm very familiar with plumbing stacks, electrical upgrades, roof replacement, and garage repairs. And I understand that the buildings under consideration in this proposal are in need of restoration. But I don't believe that the only answer is a hotel. Henry Wright, the man behind High Point, worked in the St. Louis area for 20 years. He was the landscape architect of the Washington University campus but was best known as a skilled designer of suburban developments such as Brentmore Park and Forest Ridge and Clayton and the St. Louis Country Club grounds. By 1913, he was receiving national acclaim. In 1917, High Point became his inaugural effort to develop a new kind of town which included good site planning, respectful of the topography of the land. He was insistent on providing housing that would integrate many income levels and would provide for common open space in a neighborhood organized around a school. He was moved to New Jeffery Yorg in 1923 and solidified this Newtown concept, which was spawned in High Point. Wright's Newtown theories of suburban design eventually grew to have worldwide influence. This High Point neighborhood is on the National Register of Historic Places because it's the birthplace of the Newtown concepts that are still being copied today. Because his vision is so respected around the world, I feel privileged to enjoy its attributes and also feel responsible for helping sustain it. I have been a strong supporter of changes to this community that align with his vision of a neighborhood. Changes to the High Point Main Street have occurred over the years, but these have been respectful and supportive of the concept of this as a neighborhood filled with a variety of family and business formats. This neighborhood thrives because of its commitment to families with children. The concept of converting housing to a hotel is not in alignment with the design and values of this neighborhood. There is no logic that supports this development. There has been no research presented at any meeting I've been at that said this neighborhood needs a hotel. All information presented has been personal and anecdotal. As a matter of fact, there are already two hotels nearby, the Cheshire Inn, which is within walking distance on Clayton Road, and the Moonrise Hotel on Del Mar, both of which have parking lots. Clayton already has the small Seven Gables Hotel in the heart of Clayton, as well as numerous other large name hotels. What is the proven demand for a hotel in the heart of this residential community? The parking solution presented Oh, there was a traffic study that was done that was performed in April of last year. Anyone who knows this neighborhood knows that it doesn't get really busy until May through October when outdoor dining is in full play. So the traffic study included is really irrelevant. The parking solution presented with remote parking at Concordia is not viable. There will be no way to ensure that hotel guests will park at Concordia. It's quite a long walk. If you're coming home late at night or it's raining or snowing, you're not going to walk all the way up to Concordia. They will park at the most convenient spot, taking away parking from existing businesses and residents. There will also be a need for parking for hotel employees, housekeeping workers, and restaurant staff. In addition, three parking spaces on North Roseberry are being privatized by the proposed hotel. In addition to the hotel guests, the developer is including a rooftop space to accommodate up to 50 people in its future plans. There is no parking space for events with up to 50 people and attendance. The developer is putting in a bistro that will offer coffee and breakfast fare, thereby taking business away from coldies and seeds. We don't need three coffee shops in our little neighborhood. The developer said in the afternoon evening that bistro will sell drinks, and there's not really specifying if there will be food also, taking business from existing restaurants in the neighborhood. My real concern is that it's going to become so difficult to find parking for people who are coming to our existing restaurants and businesses that they're just going to give up and go elsewhere. There's too many nice restaurants around the city of St. Louis that if you can't find parking, why bother? Logistically, I don't understand how they can do this tear down and rebuild without shutting down the alley for some amount of time. That area will also have to be fenced off for safety. Children use these alleys for going to and from school. Due to the one-way nature of the streets, residents use the alleys for ingress and egress. And where will construction dumpsters be located? How will emergency vehicles be able to move about as needed? This project is expected to take about a year and a half. I understand the building is in need of maintenance and repair. However, it could be converted to high-end apartments or condos. Instead of tearing down the historic garage, it could be restored and modernized, providing private secured parking for apartment or condo owners. That would be an enhancement to the neighborhood. Further, rather than respecting the historic brick nature of the neighborhood, they're putting on a huge white off-white addition, which will be an alien eyesore in the heart of our neighborhood. I'm asking this board to think in terms of preserving the special nature of this neighborhood that makes it so consistently attractive for over a hundred years and not destroy the safe family focused intent of its original founder who is respected around the world. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you. I'm Sally Hetzel. Since 2010, I live at 6233 San Benito Avenue. However, I first moved to this neighborhood at 6328 Northwood across from Captain's School in 1979. When I first moved here, it was just the beginning of the conversion of many of these buildings from absentee landlord rentals to privately owned condos. By 2005, when we did the work for the National Register of Historic Places, we found, for example, that 14 of the residential buildings on Northwood were all made up of individually owned condo units. But there was a lot of restoration that led up to that. I totally understand that these historical buildings need a lot of updating and a lot of salvaging. I'm very familiar with plumbing stacks, electrical upgrades, roof replacement, and garage repairs. And I understand that the buildings under consideration in this proposal are in need of restoration. But I don't believe that the only answer is a hotel. Henry Wright, the man behind High Point, worked in the St. Louis area for 20 years. He was the landscape architect of the Washington University campus but was best known as a skilled designer of suburban developments such as Brentmore Park and Forest Ridge and Clayton and the St. Louis Country Club grounds. By 1913, he was receiving national acclaim. In 1917, High Point became his inaugural effort to develop a new kind of town which included good site planning, respectful of the topography of the land. He was insistent on providing housing that would integrate many income levels and would provide for common open space in a neighborhood organized around a school. He was moved to New York in 1923 and solidified this Newtown concept, which was spawned in High Point. Wright's Newtown theories of suburban design eventually grew to have worldwide influence. This High Point neighborhood is on the National Register of Historic Places because it's the birthplace of the Newtown concepts that are still being copied today. Because his vision is so respected around the world, I feel privileged to enjoy its attributes and also feel responsible for helping sustain it. I have been a strong supporter of changes to this community that align with his vision of a neighborhood. Changes to the High Point Main Street have occurred over the years, but these have been respectful and supportive of the concept of this as a neighborhood filled with a variety of family and business formats. This neighborhood thrives because of its commitment to families with children. The concept of converting housing to a hotel is not in alignment with the design and values of this neighborhood. There is no logic that supports this development. There has been no research presented at any meeting I've been at that said this neighborhood needs a hotel. All information presented has been personal and anecdotal. As a matter of fact, there are already two hotels nearby, the Cheshire Inn, which is within walking distance on Clayton Road, and the Moonrise Hotel on Del Mar, both of which have parking lots. Clayton already has the small Seven Gables Hotel in the heart of Clayton, as well as numerous other large name hotels. What is the proven demand for a hotel in the heart of this residential community? The parking solution presented Oh, there was a traffic study that was done that was performed in April of last year. Anyone who knows this neighborhood knows that it doesn't get really busy until May through October when outdoor dining is in full play. So the traffic study included is really irrelevant. The parking solution presented with remote parking at Concordia is not viable. There will be no way to ensure that hotel guests will park at Concordia. It's quite a long walk. If you're coming home late at night or it's raining or snowing, you're not going to walk all the way up to Concordia. They will park at the most convenient spot, taking away parking from existing businesses and residents. There will also be a need for parking for hotel employees, housekeeping workers, and restaurant staff. In addition, three parking spaces on North Roseberry are being privatized by the proposed hotel. In addition to the hotel guests, the developer is including a rooftop space to accommodate up to 50 people in its future plans. There is no parking space for events with up to 50 people and attendance. The developer is putting in a bistro that will offer coffee and breakfast fare, thereby taking business away from coldies and seeds. We don't need three coffee shops in our little neighborhood. The developer said in the afternoon evening that bistro will sell drinks, and there's not really specifying if there will be food also, taking business from existing restaurants in the neighborhood. My real concern is that it's going to become so difficult to find parking for people who are coming to our existing restaurants and businesses that they're just going to give up and go elsewhere. There's too many nice restaurants around the city of St. Louis that if you can't find parking, why bother? Logistically, I don't understand how they can do this tear down and rebuild without shutting down the alley for some amount of time. That area will also have to be fenced off for safety. Children use these alleys for going to and from school. Due to the one-way nature of the streets, residents use the alleys for ingress and egress. And where will construction dumpsters be located? How will emergency vehicles be able to move about as needed? This project is expected to take about a year and a half. I understand the building is in need of maintenance and repair. However, it could be converted to high-end apartments or condos. Instead of tearing down the historic garage, it could be restored and modernized, providing private secured parking for apartment or condo owners. That would be an enhancement to the neighborhood. Further, rather than respecting the historic brick nature of the neighborhood, they're putting on a huge white off-white addition, which will be an alien eyesore in the heart of our neighborhood. I'm asking this board to think in terms of preserving the special nature of this neighborhood that makes it so consistently attractive for over a hundred years and not destroy the safe family focused intent of its original founder who is respected around the world. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Okay. All right. Well, I think, is there anyone else who would like to make a public comment on this? Okay, so I think we do have the developer here. And I think before we get into our discussion, it may be a good idea to have you come up and share your vision and maybe address a few things.

Good evening. My name is Ellen Reed. I'm a 20-year-plus Clayton resident and business owner. I'm excited to be here tonight to continue to share our vision for Hotel de Monde. Our goal is to restore and beautify a small block along DeMunn Avenue and create a charming 24-unit boutique hotel. It's no secret I'm a huge fan of the DeMunn neighborhood, and it holds a special place in my heart. It's where my children were born, where I spend my free time enjoying our favorite independent owned coffee shops, restaurants, retail, and parks. Hotel du Monde has been designed as a celebration of the neighborhood and all the special features it offers. Unique architecture, walkability, vibrancy, diversity, and all of our favorite local establishments. I envision Hotel du Monde as a place where neighbors, locals, and visitors alike can enjoy and access them. Also a community gathering place with great retail and restaurants within our project. My personal mission statement is to make a positive impact on the people in places that impact me. DeMunn is certainly one of those, as well as Clayton as a whole. As I've designed Hotel DeMunn, I've kept that mission in mind as I'm committed to Clayton, committed to making this a successful project, and committed to being a good neighbor. We've been very thoughtful about our design and our plan for Hotel du Monde. We hope you love it as much as we do. Tyler will walk you through the project specifics, and we're here to answer any questions. Thank you.

Good evening, everyone. My name is Tyler Stevens, Core 10 Architecture on behalf of Ellen. We are excited to be here. This has been a long process. I was just noticing before we came that the very first presentation I gave was in January of 2023. So this has been a lot of meetings, a lot of presenting. And I, in the interest of time, because I know that the hour is getting late, I'm just going to breeze through a lot of this because I think you've heard it before. I don't have control here. Okay, we'll be clicking fast. We all know where this project is located and I like this photo because it just shows the compact density of the neighborhood and the fact that the project sits right between North and South Rosebury completely surrounded by streets. And this is a very one-sided street in the nature of the park across the street. The existing building as it sits today Just so everybody knows, it's actually two buildings, two apartments. There is a little gap between them. We will be unifying those together, both literally by connecting them in the back, but then also in terms of aesthetics. We are going to be unifying the storefront down below into one consistent kind of look. unifying the windows across both buildings, even changing some sizes so that they are proportionally together and adding these little balconies as well to make a kind of one unified statement of the hotel. This drawing here is what we use to have our community meetings, and we showed how it sits in the neighborhood. I have bullet points here on the right. This is by no means everything we heard in the two community meetings that we had, but this is a general summary. The first grouping goes into parking and traffic concerns. That was probably the number one thing that we heard. The second grouping had to do with ownership, just making sure that Ellen was legit and going to stay around and not sell the place. Which she's not, by the way. And then the third group has to do more with forward looking and acknowledgement that this could be a good development. So what's it going to look like during construction? The other thing I'll point out, this map gives you a good indication of the centralized nature of the hotel location. And then the parking that we have secured with Concordia Seminary, which is located up there in that parking lot on the northern edge. and the walkway going to and from. We spent a lot of time on site, standing out there in that parking lot, walking back and forth. The very nice thing about it, some people would complain that it's too far. It's not far at all, in my opinion. It's an easy walk. But the thing that makes it even better in that instance is that when you stand in the parking lot you can actually see right across to see the hotel there are many times when we be walking to parking down a block or something in a city where you can't see where you're going and that makes it feel psychologically much longer So I think that this is a really good indication. If you click the button, it'll play a little animation of the people arriving having to do with the one way streets and how we're going to have drop off. Which because of the one way streets in the alley. The alley is very important to the hotel as well. I know it's important to the neighborhood. So it's a integral part of this whole plan. Okay, go ahead. I wanna talk about cars, because as I said, parking and traffic was one of the key issues. The main thing that we explained to everyone at the public meetings had to do with the word scale. When you hear the word hotel, Immediately, what comes into your mind is the Marriott Grand or something like that. And you think 100, 200 rooms. This is a 24-unit hotel. We call it a boutique hotel. It's very small. It's not that many people. So when you take the cars and that we did the independent traffic and parking study that's required by the city by CBB and they showed in all of their studies that we are providing more parking than is necessary. and we are actually reducing the amount of traffic in the neighborhood. So then everybody asks the question, well, how can that be? And I'll walk you through the highlights here. It's simply because of the change of use. Today is on the left, cars today, there are 14 apartments in those two buildings. And Clayton code would require, if you were building that new would require two cars per unit. But we'll even back that off because reality, I think more what Clayton is understanding is with apartments really more like one and a half. And I think hopefully your code will change in the future to update to that. But at one and a half, we're talking about 21 cars currently. And they all park in the street because there is absolutely no parking provided by the buildings today. So if there are 21 cars today that are on the street, simply not having apartments anymore is a net reduction of 21 cars parked on the street. So that's where you start with minus 21. Then you go to the hotel rooms. What are they going to provide? There are 24 rooms. Most people agree that 80% occupancy is a good, ambitious number for a hotel. So that's 20 cars coming for those rooms. In this particular type of hotel, because it is a neighborhood and it's not on a highway, it's not like a Howard Johnson's or something that's on that interstate. It is 40% of the guests, it's pretty actually generous to say 40% of the guest coming there will have a car. The rest are arriving by Uber, by Lyft. They're being dropped off by their friends in the neighborhood who they've come to visit. We heard a lot of people in the neighborhood say they really like this idea because they have family who comes into town and they don't have a place to put them up. They can be dropped off. They can also walk from their houses. So at that number, you're talking about a need for about eight cars and this in terms of the The parking study These numbers were borne out in terms of the peak hours and different things. But even let's just say we're wrong. Let's say 100% of the people coming bring a car. Even at that, we're talking about 20 cars needed instead of the 21 that's there. So you're still in that same realm, but we are providing five spots on site. So you've already reduced the number of cars in the neighborhood, and we've secured 30 spaces at the seminary. up to 30 as needed. We don't really think we're even going to need that many. Um, this is a plan that has a lot of flexibility built into it. And so that's how you can see a reduction in the actual parking, uh, the traffic study, the traffic indicated, and this has to do with just the use of a hotel versus an apartment building, that there's a reduction in the number of trips. Um, And you can look at that traffic study to see those numbers. But if you just go off logic here, 80% occupancy, 20 guest rooms. If they're an average stay of four days, which is also we think on the low side, most people are there for a three-day weekend maybe. There are also people there for a full seven-day week. So four is a low average. But that means five people checking in per day. And five people checking in per day is not a lot of traffic coming to that desk. And a lot of people have asked, are you going to have valet? Are you going to have a parking attendant? Are you going have dedicated staff to handle people coming in and out with baggage? We're talking about five people per day. And for five people per day, it can easily be handled by one person at the desk That if someone needs help getting to the parking, they can drive their car over for them. They can do a little valet. All these things are very possible with this low type of traffic. So just as a reminder, scale is a very important piece of this project. As was mentioned, we're completing the block out. We're going to take the buildings up front. They're in pink and then the red shows you what we're building on the back. You can go ahead and go forward. This has a great deal of impact in the neighborhood for positive. Currently today those garages are all along the back and in between them is a mess of a lot of things. Utilities, trash, mechanical equipment, various things coming in. If you advance You'll see when we fill in, and what we've done very specifically when we fill in is to put the lobby in the back there on North Roseberry, and then tucked in parking the five spaces. We can get some new retail on South Roseberry that's also right next to some enclosed trash dumpsters. So all this is a much more efficient use of the site. It creates a donut shape around a little service court, and you see all of that tucked in. If you go ahead... You'll see a picture of what that alley looks like today, in case you don't know. These are the historic garages that have been boarded up for many years that we will be taking down and cleaning up the trash and widening the alley in the process. Go ahead and go forward. When you're walking on North and South Roseberry, this is your view off the street. You're looking at you know, various things on the backs of these buildings. All of this will be filled in, go ahead one more, to a nice urban block that completes it. This shows on North Roseberry the entrance to the hotel, the lobby that you see there. You can see the cars tucked in along the alley. It's a much more dense urban streetscape, so it cleans up North and South Roseberry in the process. The alley, as I said, is very important to the hotel as well as the neighborhood, so it will be Very much open going through there. Go ahead. This is just an idea. This is by no means a final design, but an idea of what that lobby inside can contain, a little cafe. Again, it's about neighborhood gathering. We're not trying to take business away from any of the neighbors. Ellen very clearly wants to support the neighborhood retail that's there. So this last thing I'll end on was just our chart. I know there was a lot of discussion about this at the plan commission and you all, I understand, will have your own thoughts on what these numbers will hold. But in essence, the left side shows the different standards that we were applying to The right side has our description of what we're offering. The first grouping is all the stuff that we discussed at the plan commission. You can read those on your own. I'm sure you've seen the charts. I'm not going to read them for you. But down at the bottom, the last four, we were encouraged before we came to think of any additional things that we might throw out to you all because I know that you have maybe some different driving factors than plan commission. So those last four are new ones and I'm just going to start with hotel and retail tax base increase. You all just had a lively discussion about needing more money to fix up old buildings. Turning apartment building into a hotel is a tax boon for the city. So we think that that's worth, we just threw out a whopping 10 points on that. You all can decide what you think it's worth. And then down below there, community gathering spaces and events. Ellen plans to use the hotel as kind of a stage for various neighborhood functions. She's talked about different community events that she wants the hotel to host in the lobby or in the park around there. We have the retail itself, which is very always planned to be very neighborhood oriented. I'm pretty sure Ellen is not planning to turn in this into like a baby gap or something and take out all the neighborhood retail. So that's the idea. And then finally, in terms of public benefit, the name is Hotel Du Monde. She could have named it anything but honoring the neighborhood which will be constantly reminded to anybody who stays there that this is demand, which is in the great city of Clayton is part of the public benefit so we think that all of those things are worth consideration, and we will take any questions that you have. Thank you.

Very good. Thank you very much. Okay, well, I think it's now an opportunity for our board to have comments and questions. And I think it's fitting to start with the ward one, all their people. So Becky, I'll ask you to go first.

Thank you, Mayor. It is not typical for us to have a planned unit development in Ward 1. So it's been really interesting to be closer and on the inside of this process. And as Tyler alluded to, it's been well over a year since we first heard about the project and about a year since the community conferences and all of that. I do want to commend Ellen and her team for actually holding two community conferences when I think technically the requirement is only for one. And, you know, and then we were all just like waiting, like what's going to happen next? Are they going to go forward? Did they like, you know, I mean, I heard over the last eight months a lot from folks about is it still is it happening? Is it not? And I think what we saw come back when I attended the plan commission meeting, when this was discussed and reviewed there does address in my mind, everything that was raised during those community conferences. So the way the trash is accessed and the driving, the way you're going to instruct people to approach the hotel and drive in the neighborhood and all of that. I find the results of the traffic parking study to make sense. Like, I think it's understandable that a hotel would have actually a reduced parking load on the neighborhood compared to Um, to an apartment. And so I have no reason to doubt or question the experts who perform that study. Um, and I think it's great that you're that the proposal does involve some on-site parking. Um, and so I see that as a definite, um, improvement. I would also note that I have heard from many of the current business owners along DeMunn that they do not hear complaints from customers about parking. They do not hear that people avoid coming to their business because of parking. um so i i just i think you know whether or not the city wants to do some things to improve parking in demand i think that's something we can consider um but i don't think um the burden is on this development um if there even is a problem to solve um and then um I just think the way the building will be improved is going to be such a significant impact on the neighborhood in terms of the development and cleaning up along the alley and building that out. I think the use of the other material provides some visual interest. I'm not an architect, so I try not to weigh in on that too much. But I think it creates visual interest in the neighborhood, which is interesting to me. And I bring an abundance mindset. I don't think having another coffee shop or place you can stop and get a glass of wine while you wait for your table at another restaurant is going to hurt the businesses on demand. I believe that there's like data and evidence that shows that to be true. And certainly like personally personally, I know it's even nice to go somewhere where you know there are a variety of places you could pop in based on like what the vibe is that night or whatever. So I just think there's a lot of positives to this project. And while we have heard some concerns, I think that they have been overwhelmingly addressed and we've heard really significant support from the neighborhood um and other residents so um do you want us to actually talk about points when we talk you don't want to do that or do you want to do that separately uh

i think when should we do that sorry separately

okay

yeah just the overall stuff right now

yeah great that's all thank you all

right

I would say that generally speaking, my sentiments are in alignment with Alderman Patel's. I've had the opportunity to take a tour and understand the historical significance of the High Point de Monde neighborhood. And I know how important that is to our neighbors there. And through the planning process, It's apparent also that the whole commercial neighborhood aspect of the demand street and specific is also highly valued by the neighborhood. So while our visions may not be all in alignment, I think the vision for this project is consistent with what would be very viable for this neighborhood. I think that the facade in this building is in great need of improvement. And I like the design that they put on this. I think it's highly attractive. I think that the fact that the retail businesses are going to stay and there's an opportunity to expand that is terrific. And I agree with Alderman Patel regarding the lack of objection from any of the neighboring businesses. And in fact, I think if one considers the I use the car dealer analogy and why do they all locate next to each other? It's because there's an enormous benefit to the patrons of those businesses to have to only go to one neighborhood versus going to multiple neighborhoods. So the fact that this is complementary to other businesses in that stretch, I think is very attractive. I think that the developers put a lot of time and thought into the traffic flow, and traffic can be an issue here, especially if nothing else, it's just busy there with pedestrian traffic. Getting that behind the building, I think, is well thought out. And regarding the parking, having the opportunity for the offsite parking, I think is very important. I guess I do, I don't know if I'm allowed to ask a question at this time of the developer, but I am wondering a couple aspects of the remote parking, one being what the nature of the lease agreement in terms of how, what the term is or what options are available there. And then second, if this continues to be highly successful, it's possible that we may see more activity, especially for your tenants. And so will tenants have the opportunity for parking in this remote lot?

So currently, the seminary is an agreement to provide 30 parking spaces, you know as long as we need them generally speaking, I think it's worthwhile to note to that their support the product. Because they like it but it's also in alignment with serving some of their needs by having. family, visitors, staff being able to use the hotel. So they do support the long-term vision of the hotel. We don't believe we will need 30 spaces based on what the traffic study as well as just intuitively we think we need. We have not spoken to retail tenants about any overflow. What Becky had stated is honestly what our tenants have continued to tell us and what I know as a user is they they don't have parking issues at the moment. So it could be something perhaps in the future, but it's not something that we've discussed at the moment.

Okay. So maybe asking the question a little differently, who has the ability to access the parking lot? Is it only a hotel guest?

As of right now, it would be the hotel guest, either our staff parking for them or the hotel guests. But generally speaking, the agreement is for 30 spaces. So Could perhaps, you know, maybe the restaurant, which would not be us but the restaurateur operator. That could be something that if needed we could explore, but we have not yet explored it.

So some hotels, especially in dense urban districts, in fact, require valet parking because they don't have on-site parking. And so that's the only choice for a hotel guest. I'm not suggesting that you should do that. But I am wondering if there is just a suggestion, really, which is strongly encouraging your hotel guests to either park in the rear or to use the valet. And I know it isn't a formal valet service, but a cell or a a parking service, if you will, to avoid the, I'll just take a spot on the street type of an answer.

That is the plan, but that is part of the programming, even part of what we plan to send out prior to check-in. And like you stated, if you have the option for, to pull up, which was why the three parking spaces are important for us, we wanted to get it away from the commercial retail, which typically likes the front of the building, take three spaces, which we think would be sufficient based on even the higher check-in or check-out times and then have the ability for someone to park the car. If someone's going to park your car, that's great. And because we'll have flexible staff with whether it's one, two, three people, depending on the needs of the business, we will be able to park the cars.

Great. The only other comment that I wanted to share is that we did hear from some of our constituents about a concern of whether a hotel was a good fit for this neighborhood given its proximity to the school, and the fear of sex offenders possibly staying there and while they're not allowed to stay in a residential area close to a school, could they stay at a hotel? And Alderman Patel reached out to Chief Smith and identified that the same rules apply within 500 feet. And so while that is a very serious concern and one that we take seriously, the impacts or the law is on the side here of still that would continue to be a felony if someone were to do that. So I think we've researched that concern And I think it's adequately addressed.

Thank you. Can I just ask, David, can you clarify the process for the parking spot request? And like that's not actually part of this, I

believe. Separate permit request to the Public Works Department.

Yeah, that we're not considering tonight.

It's part of the plan. It's part similar example. Okay, so it is like approving

this is kind of indicating that we support that. Okay, thank you.

All right, very good. Thank you. So now we'll just start over here and go in order.

Tyler, yeah, this is nicely done. Thank you. I have a few, just a few, few questions. You know, and the resident local resident who did speak to us just just a few minutes ago raises the issue of whether or not the patrons of the hotel would be actually using this parking lot. Now, I know that you've said there's no issues of parking in that area. It's one of the few areas I will mention in the city. There is no limited parking. Is that right? I mean, there's no parking meters on demand, right? Okay. So people can park there and stay there for three days if they're staying at the hotel. The car can just sit there. Isn't that right? Okay. So my question is, though, when I go to hotels and they say, yeah, well, we will provide parking at 70 bucks a day. And I'm not going to do that. I'm going to find some alternate parking that's going to be somewhere close to the hotel, at least. So would you be willing to put in some kind of a provision that will make your parking either free or provide a very low cost for anyone who's going to the hotel and needs parking?

When we've surveyed the parking, like around Clayton, you know, if we were to charge at all, whether it be a complimentary as part of the rate, we projected somewhere in the range of $20, which has been consistent with what we've seen, but it could possibly be complimentary. But you're correct, like right now with the apartments, everyone parks on the street. So the proposed use would be to offer both easy parking, clear parking, incentive to use the parking attendant, which would then park the car for you. And when I travel, at least, I do typically tend to follow the offering of the hotel. Well, you're a lot more wealthier than I am. No, meaning the instructions of the hotel. But I don't know that I could clearly state whether it's going to be free yet or some kind of cost because it might depend on whether we decide to hire more parking attendants or the hours that we need it.

But if you self-park, is it free? Or is it just if you use the attendant, there's a cost like the valet? I was just trying to get clarity.

Yeah. We haven't honestly determined a specific cost. What we're mostly focused on is the function and that it's clear and that it's available and ready because part of that as we kind of determine the flow, we might find that we are consistent with national trends specifically within this neighborhood where we have eight cars, five of them we might be parking behind the building. You know, we might only be parking three. So it will depend a little bit on the needs of the business, but the goal would not be to incentivize people to park on the street. That's, that's opposite of what the goal

is. You know, because it's not, it doesn't interfere with maybe your hotel patrons, but it might interfere with other people coming into that neighborhood for, you know, Sasha's or some, some other place that they want to go to and they don't have a place to park because your people are all parking on the street. You know what I mean? It's,

Part of the reason we even did the lobby on the side is we did want to maintain the retail presence, both as an owner of the building, but also we think that's the best thing for the neighborhood. And also why we are requesting the three places in front for drop-off and

drop-off. And that's a great idea. I appreciate that a lot. That's a good way to go. So that's really the biggest issue I have is how you're gonna work the parking to make sure that it doesn't interfere with the other retail establishments in that neighborhood. Okay, thank you.

Thank you. Okay, Bridget. Bridget, you heard this at plan commission too, so feel free to throw in any interesting comments that were made there.

Yeah, because they've been presented with this project a few times now, I don't have any questions for Ellen or for Tyler. I'll pour it to the board since I ultimate rep on the plan commission other than Sally, who spoke very eloquently that night as she did tonight. There was no one else there who voiced any opposition to the project. In fact, there was a lot of people in the audience who spoke out for the project um i did not receive any um i'm sure rick and becky have spoken a lot to their constituents in world one but i didn't receive any emails against the project from anyone um so and with respect to the architecture i would say all the people who are the experts who serve on the architectural review boards spoke very very positively about the appearance of the project so it was very widely supported by really all members of the architectural review board so

thanks for uh presenting this project and opportunity and thanks for your comments too i think that you know from what i've heard tonight i'm not an architectural expert either but between the planning commission the architecture review board the are all the persons being involved and community input. It sounds like a project that has a lot of neighborhood support and consistency is what we're hoping for that neighborhood. I do hope that the parking is addressed. I know we were recently at a hotel in a small town, and it was in the middle of a neighborhood section, and they gave us a little placard to put in the car for our 10 minutes to unload. Now, would we have been ticketed otherwise or not? I don't know, but we did obey it. So there's ways to work around this and figure it out. The one area that I want to ask you about is really with sustainability. I'm hoping that we don't have to go through and adjust points and things, but I'm wondering if you're thinking of putting like an EV charger station in your parking area. And I'll start with that one.

So sustainability was discussed at the plan commission as well. And we know that that's a big issue. I'll start by saying, this is one of the tenants of our firm. The most sustainable thing that you can ever do in any building project is to reuse a building that's already built. Tearing a building down and starting from scratch is the worst thing you can do sustainability wise. And so just by simple nature of reusing these buildings, that's a huge thing. building practices that we use for the new part, and we follow all of the sustainable practices that are mostly built into the code now. The EV charging stations were brought up. This is something that's going through a lot of transition right now. I'll tell you the same thing, because we do a lot of condominium projects, and the developers will always want to provide EV chargers in these garages for the buyers. We are learning by meeting with more and more electric companies that the amount of transformer hour that you need when you start adding a lot of EV charging stations is much bigger than people are suspecting. And in the case of another condominium building we are working on now in another part of town, just wanting to supply 20 chargers or so in a garage can result in a transformer that's roughly the size of a dumpster. This site is very tight and we just don't have room for big transformers all over. We're going to need a transformer for the building already, which currently they're pole mounted and Ameren doesn't like pole mounted anymore. They want you to put everything on the ground. So that requires more and more space, which we need for things like dumpsters and cars and other items. So To answer your question, are we going to provide EV chargers? If we can get one in there that's part of the power supply of the building that doesn't require its own separate charger. And I think we can generally do one station as part of the thing. But it all depends on how big the transformer we can do. We haven't met with Ameren yet. We haven't gone through all that. But whatever we can get into the to the regular transformer of the building, we will add it. We just cannot have separate additional transformers.

Right. And that's probably one of many, many issues. I agree with the reuse of the buildings is a great move. And as you pointed out, you don't need 20 of a small number of cars. And it's probably very, very good for business to have at least one. So hopefully that is something. And I don't know what LEED certifications are or how that works with reusing a building like this. And I guess you're telling me that in the building, your HVAC systems, those types of

things. Yeah. So LEED started out when it first started, everybody was getting their buildings certified and everything by doing certain things. That was before the building code really had a chance to catch up. The building code has since been changed a lot. Most of the LEED stuff is built into the code now. It's stuff you have to do when building new buildings just by code. And very few people are actually getting LEED certified buildings unless they just want to I mean, unless they want to brag about it.

I understand that you're doing that. You do

the things whether you get certified or not. Like

rehabbing a building like this as well, retro, whatever. Right. You'd get a lot of points for that. Okay. And then the other question too is I know you talked about having the bikes in the back. And I assume, are they in the parking lot in a safe spot where people feel secure when they bring their bikes in there? Or it's just set in the alley. So is that something that...

Yeah, it won't be in the alley. We have a service court in the middle that we're kind of doing the donut shape around. That's to provide light for the units up above. But it also provides a wonderful space in there for storage of lots of different things. Circulation bikes are one of them.

Okay. Continuing down my sustainability list here in that parking lot. I read in there that it's an impervious surface at this point in time. It's

100% today.

And is there anything that you're doing or could do to add some permeability if you're redoing the alley and everything else? Are there any today that...

Well, not in the alley. That wouldn't meet Clayton standards. And so, no. Okay.

All right. And it seemed like there was one. The

only thing we could really do is build a rooftop garden, but that's not part of the plan.

Yeah, I caught that you're putting something up there Isn't it gathering? Yeah,

that was discussed a lot at Plan Commitment. We are just putting the infrastructure to be able to get up there. So take the elevator up and a stair, a single stair, which limits you to 50 people, 49 technically by code. We're just building the infrastructure so that it can be used in the future. There's no real big plan for using the roof. It's certainly not an event space or anything like that.

And nothing with solar panels or anything else up there either in the space? No,

not at this time.

Okay, thank you.

Good all right alderman Gary Feder comments questions.

Good all right alderman fader comments questions.

So i've lived in Davis place for 35 years, but my roots are in demand, because the first five years of my marriage we lived at 623 South roseberry I think we used to shop at the food Co op which I think is long gone, but was there, then my daughter lives on alamo around the corner. I've driven a lot of Captain Carpool. I'm very enthusiastic about the project. But when I first heard about it, like everybody, I thought the issue was parking. But I think you've really dealt well with the parking issue. And to the extent that Alderman Berkowitz asked a good question, I think you'll continue to deal with parking and be successful there. So I think it's a neat project. It's very exciting. It's wonderful for the neighborhood. And I wish you well. And you certainly have my support.

Great. Just yes and again to everybody's comments. I'm interested, I was interested to hear that the current business owners in Andaman support this, which is really, you know, given past history, Tyler, a good thing, right? And so that's great. And I wondered a couple things. Maybe you said this, but where are the employees going to be parking? The seminary lot? Okay. And you have a way of policing that, I'm sure. Okay. And then in terms of, you know, the out front streetscape, you know, we've talked a lot. We just talked a lot earlier tonight about how everybody wants wider sidewalks and because we want more outside dining and we want planters and we want all this great stuff. And i'm apologize for not understanding this from looking at the document, but are you widening the out front sidewalk at all, so that you can have more outdoor dining or more walkability there.

No, the sidewalk there is we're not changing the front of the building much and it's a pretty wide sidewalk as is there's a lot of outdoor dining already on several of those establishments.

All right. And the last thing I would say is I do sympathize with the really eloquent statement that was made earlier about the history of the area, but I think you've done a great job of honoring that with the facade. That's something that is really hard to do and so, and do it well. And so I appreciate that. I would just like to put it in your idea bucket that, you know, things that you can do inside the building, in the cafe area or otherwise to further honor and tell the story of Henry Wright and the development of that into town. would really be, I think, interesting to everybody who would stay there and a really great way to kind of further that special nature of that historic neighborhood. Yeah, so, okay. I think we can close the public hearing if there are no further comments. Okay, I will close the public hearing and then we can get into bill number 7019. Pardon? Points. Oh, that's true. Okay, I'm sorry. I thought I was thinking that was one and the same. All right, so do you want... We have the points here. Everybody's got those. Does anybody have any point on here that they would like to discuss? We won't go through them all. We'll just go through the ones that people have questions or comments about. I'm going to start with Alderman Patel and then Alderman Rick Hummell, and then we'll go back to this. Okay, but anything...

All right. And the last thing I would say is I do sympathize with the really eloquent statement that was made earlier about the history of the area, but I think you've done a great job of honoring that with the facade. That's something that is really hard to do and so, and do it well. And so I appreciate that. I would just like to put it in your idea bucket that, you know, things that you can do inside the building, in the cafe area or otherwise to further honor and tell the story of Henry Wright and the development of that into town. would really be, I think, interesting to everybody who would stay there and a really great way to kind of further that special nature of that historic neighborhood. Yeah, so, okay. I think we can close the public hearing if there are no further comments. Okay, I will close the public hearing and then we can get into bill number 7019. Pardon? Points. Oh, that's true. Okay, I'm sorry. I thought I was thinking that was one and the same. All right, so do you want... We have the points here. Everybody's got those. Does anybody have any point on here that they would like to discuss? We won't go through them all. We'll just go through the ones that people have questions or comments about. I'm going to start with Alderman Patel and then Alderman Hummel, and then we'll go back to this. Okay, but anything...

Yeah, so the first topic, buildings exhibiting architectural distinction and significance, is one that I have on previous PUDs expressed significant reluctance to offer five points for that, unless it's something where you would recognize the building when you saw it in person. profile or shadow, right? So I would like to be consistent personally with how I've approached that before. And my suggestion would be that we give three points for that item. I do really want to highlight the third item on the list about preserving the building and this full seven points for that. That's like tremendous and awesome. And I would suggest that I did not write down all the other items. The additional four things? Yeah, the additional things that we got suggested, although I did find some of them compelling. And I would be open to... to adding a couple points for those. I'm

just going to bring up that slide so you could see it.

There you go.

Yeah, so I think the top two are the ones that... seem the most kind of like unique or specific to this event that are to this project, I should say the tax base increase and the gathering spaces, so I would consider giving a point or two for those. And I would not recommend any other changes to what we got from the plan Commission.

Okay, very good alderman humble do you have any. Things you'd like to change or see changed?

No, I would like to comment that I've not had a lot of experience with this. I find it to be a very inexact and subjective science and that substantively, I agree with the total. And I think the project achieves its goal and how we allocate it across the board. I'm indifferent to, I just think it's sufficient. And so I'm happy with the total.

Good. Okay. So over here.

Yeah, I think sufficient thought has gone into those areas that we would consider to be priorities for that neighborhood and for the commercial area there on on demand. And so, um, You know, I'm generally accepting of those points, whether there's switching points here or there. I don't think it matters that much. But I think there's a consistent interest. And I've worked with Tyler before. There's always an interest in making sure that the public and the public benefits are covered appropriately. And I think they have been. So thank you.

Or is it anything? No, just, I mean, I would, I mean, think Alderman Patel's suggestion is good. I think the architecture thing is always something, something obviously we have to consider as we go into our modifications based on the company and our planning. But I think if we reduce that to three and then add, you know, I mean, one point at least for the hotel and retail tax base and another point for community gathering spaces, that seems like a good way to do it, but.

okay

that would be

did the architecture review board come up with these points did they approve five points for architecture

yeah they did i mean i i but i'm curious bridget spoke against it well she suggested lowering i did i did oh i did and they overruled her i did well yes i was overruled i

suggested three or four points just because i know that that's kind of how this board deals with it so it's all the architects and experts on that board were willing to give five points okay very good

i think that i'll agree with bridget and also with rick that overall i feel that um the project has earned enough points and the exact allocation i think is falling out very well the way that you all have suggested and it looks good

Okay, yeah. It's a great project. You're going to let Gary talk. Oh, I'm sorry. You can assume whatever

want. Thank you. I forgot about you. I'm so sorry. Go on.

As long as we get to 21, I'm fine.

Okay.

Whatever it takes. It doesn't, the building

is enough too, but yes,

the building's going to be built according to the plans and specs and what we approve tonight. However, we allocate these numbers at this point, as long as it's enough, that's fine. So if I'm fine with Alderman Patel's suggestion, I'm fine, frankly, I just as soon leave it the way the plan commission did because I trust the way they allocated the points, but ultimately it's, 20, 21, however we get there. Let's approve the project.

Very good. You know, I feel sort of the same. I feel like we're sort of splitting hairs. But I think given that the ARB, the architects gave the five points for architecture and given that I really have in my experience. working on these projects in Clayton, it's very, very hard to get a rehab or redo of a facade that really fits the character of the area, let alone really mirrors the character and the elements of the existing building. I think that's very hard to do and it's very seldom done. So I would like to reward that with all the five points, personally. But again, just so we, you know, I think the whole project is great and so we should just, I think we should just kind of uncomplicate our lives and leave it the way it is. Now, so we need to vote, I guess. Does anyone want to amend these points officially or do we have to do that?

The motion to amend has not been made.

Okay, so does anybody really want to make that motion to amend the point? I would

like

to make that motion. I mean, I think

we

should be consistent.

Yeah, I feel like consistency with our past projects.

I mean, across other PUD projects, I would recommend consistency, but

I've also heard specifically from people on the plan commission ARB that they wish we had more interesting buildings yet. They continue to give five points to everyone who asked for it. And so I feel like it is somewhat in our role actually, as the board of Alderman to like encourage and support, like the pro the point is this is an amazing project and it's going to have plenty of points. I don't think we should be giving five points or like architectural distinction and significance.

So I

would like to make a motion to amend that we have three points for the first item and we add a point for taxes and a point for gathering spaces.

Second. Is this a roll call? No. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay, the bill has been amended. And now we could introduce the amended bill.

So they got to do I just I just okay

yeah as

I'd like to introduce. bill number 7019 as amended approving a rezoning and a planned unit development for 726 and 734 the money avenue to be read, for the first time, but title only

second right any further discussion. I would just like to say that historic architecture is distinctive, in my opinion. So there. Now. All right. No other questions or comments? Okay. Mr. City Attorney.

Bill number 7019, first reading. An ordinance providing for the rezoning of certain property located at 726 and 734 DeMond Avenue to a planned unit development district to be known as the Hotel DeMond Planned Unit District, providing for the change in the zoning map of the city of Clayton, Missouri, approving a planned unit development for the subject property and other actions related thereto.

All right. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay.

I'd like to move that the board give unanimous consent consideration for adoption of bill number 7019 as amended on the date of its introduction.

Second. All those in favor.

Aye.

Opposed? Okay. Let the minister reflect the board's given unanimous consent.

I think it was bill number 7019 has amended approving a rezoning and a planned unit development for 726 and 734 Des Moines Avenue to be read for the second time by title only.

Second. Any discussion? Okay, Mr. City Attorney. Bill

number 7019, second reading and consideration for adoption. An ordinance providing for the rezoning of certain property located at 726 and 734 DeMond Avenue to a planned unit development district to be known as the Hotel DeMond Planned Unit District, providing for the change in the zoning map of the city of Clayton, Missouri, approving a planned unit development for the subject property and other actions related thereto.

Alderman Berkowitz. Aye. Alderman McAndrew. Aye. Alderwoman Buse. Aye. Aldermen Patel. Aye. Aldeman Gary Feder.

Alderman Berkowitz. Aye. Alderman McAndrew. Aye. Alderwoman Buse. Aye. Aldermen Patel. Aye. Aldeman Fader.

Aye.

Aldemann Rick Hummell. Aye. Mayor Harris.

Aldemann Hummel. Aye. Mayor Harris.

Aye. Thank you. Okay, very good. Now we can take up the subdivision plat for 726 and 734 DeMond Avenue.

I'd like to introduce bill number 702. We're approving a subdivision plat for726 and 734 deMond Avenue to be read for the first time by title only.

Second. Any discussion? Okay. Mr. City Attorney.

I'm trying to find the bill on the agenda. Excuse me. All

right.

Not your fault.

While you're looking at that, I mean, Bridget, is increased tax base something we typically give points for in a PUD? Not usually. Have we ever done that before? No. Mm-hmm. Trying to be consistent.

You're beating a dead horse.

Happy to add two points to the community. I'm just asking for my edification because I really didn't know. It would have been great to hear before. It doesn't matter. I just thought of it though. Okay.

Bill number 7020, first reading and ordinance providing for the approval of a plat to consolidate certain property known as 726 and 734 DeMont Avenue in the city of Clayton, Missouri.

All those in favor? Aye. Opposed?

Okay. I'd like to move that the board give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of bill number 7020 on the Davis introduction.

Second. All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Let the minutes reflect. The board is given unanimous consent.

I'll introduce bill number 702, over-approving of subdivision plan for 726 and 734 Demont Avenue to be read for the second time by title only.

Second. Any discussion? Okay. Mr. City Attorney.

Bill number 7020, second reading and consideration for adoption. An ordinance providing for the approval of a plot to consolidate certain property known as 726 and 734 DeMont Avenue in the city of Clayton, Missouri.

Alderman Berkowitz. Aye. Alderwoman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Aldermen Patel. Aye. Alderman Gary Feder.

Alderman Berkowitz. Aye. Alderwoman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Aldermen Patel. Aye. Alderman Fader.

Alderman Rick Hummell.

Alderman Hummel.

Mayor Harris.

Aye. Thank you. Okay. Congratulations. We'll look forward to seeing how it develops. Come back and show us. Okay. All right. When will that be,

Tyler? When's the grand opening?

Yeah. Good question.

Ellen, when's the grand opening ?

you'll have a timetable okay all right well we'll look forward to it thank you thanks okay um next on our agenda is the consent agenda which includes the minutes and also the election results so i think if we just have a motion to approve the agenda we'll have approved all of that in one fell swoop correct

i'd like to move to approve the consent agenda

Second. Alderman Berkowitz? Aye. Alderwoman McAndrew? Aye. Alderman Deuce? Aye. Aldermen Patel? Aye. Aldeman Gary Feder? Aye. Aldemann Rick Hummell? Aye. Mayor Harris? Aye. Thank you. Okay,

Second. Alderman Berkowitz? Aye. Alderwoman McAndrew? Aye. Alderman Deuce? Aye. Aldermen Patel? Aye. Aldeman Fader? Aye. Aldemann Hummel? Aye. Mayor Harris? Aye. Thank you. Okay,

time for the city manager's report.

All right. First item is the Philippine Historic Marker Language. So on July 25th, 2023, the mayor and board of aldermen approved a recommendation from the mayor's commemorative landscape task force to commemorate the former Philippine Village at the 1904 World's Fair and present-day Philippine Village historical site. It is recommended that, or it is requested that the Board of Aldermen approve the proposed marker verbiage to commemorate the Philippine Village historical sight as stated in the packet.

Okay. Any discussion? Yes. I have a

few questions, I guess. One is I noticed that Concordia has to approve of the language, and have they done that? They have. Okay. So that's a done deal now, right? I mean, it's not like they can come back tomorrow and say, I don't like the language. We've got to change it. Right.

Under the agreement, if they agree to it, then we're okay. And I have that in writing. You have

it in writing. Okay.

Mike Lewis with Concordia Seminary.

Okay. Very good. The other question I have is apparently they can cancel at any time or at least tell us they don't want us to have this on their property anymore at any time.

That's correct. We are encroaching on their property. That's the second portion of this. The first one is just the language itself. The next item is that encroaching agreement.

Is the agreement? Oh, okay, fine. I'll wait for that. Okay.

Any other comment, Bridget? Any comment, question?

No, it's just thanks for all the work that went into this. And I know we haven't gotten there yet, but thank you to Concordia for being willing to put the marker on their property. So it was a great effort all around.

Yeah, I think the language is well done. I like it.

Good. Thank you. Older woman views. Same expression of appreciation. Thanks. Yep. Yeah, I support this.

I'm good. I don't have anything to add.

Very good. All right. Well, it's been a long time coming, but we're excited. And I know that the Philippine community here in town is really excited about this too. And again, thank you to Concordia for working with us on this. So all right, with that being done, Alderman Berkowitz.

to move to approve the language for the philippine village historical site commemorative marker

uh second any discussion i i will add one comment which is that all of these little commemorations i hope will add to our efforts to to make our community more welcoming to all different cultures Okay. And if there are no other questions or comments, all those in favor?

Aye. Any

opposed? Okay. Very good. Bill number 7021, Mr. City Manager.

Yes. On July 25th, 2023, the Mayor and Board of Aldermen approved a recommendation from the Mayor's Commemorative Landscape Task Force to commemorate the former Philippine Village site at the 1904 World's Fair and the present-day historical site. It is proposed that the marker be placed perpendicular to the sidewalk along DeMunn Avenue, as shown in Exhibit A, which is located on Concordia Seminary property. To place the commemorative marker, the city must enter into an encroachment agreement with Concordia Seminery. Staff recommends that the Board of Aldermen approve the ordinance authorizing the city manager to execute an encroachment with Concordia seminary for the installation of the Philippine Village Historic Site Commemorative Marker.

Okay, very good. Any comments like I know there are some so we just start over here.

I just had one it was just about the idea that that at any time they could you know cancel and. I guess I appreciate that I guess it's it's fair

tonight, I will say that if they cancel if they're the canceling party party, then we get six months notice and they'll actually remove the marker and then deliver to the city. If we're the canceling party, then we give them notice and we restore the site

right okay okay

no comments.

comments over

here

i have a question um i'm uh i would like to clarify um the lease agreement that we have for concordia park which is right there and whether or not this is actually within the footprint of that park i don't know how specifically that park is outlined

yeah

um can you speak to that

it seems like it would be

okay so um okay and so even though we like lease that park um you have to enter into this agreement to like do stuff in the land

put an improvement put in

uh something physical okay asked and answered thank you Anything else? I

was going to ask the similar question regarding the nature of our agreement on the park and whether, I guess, is it a similar type of agreement? It's just now subject to notice or is there a term to the agreement? Do you have any idea?

The overall park agreement? Park agreement. That I couldn't tell you. I didn't review it before this meeting.

Okay. I know that wasn't fair. I just thought of it.

Okay. That's an answer we can say. Mike, do

you have any comment to that effect? No.

okay

thank you very much all right um alderman berkowitz

i'd like to introduce bill number 7021 approving an encroachment agreement with concordia seminary for the installation of the philippine village historical site commemorative marker to be read for the first time by title only

Second. All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay, great. Oh, I'm sorry. I just skipped over that. Mr. City Attorney.

Bill number 7021. First reading. An ordinance authorizing the city manager to execute an encroachment agreement with Concordia Seminary for the installation of the Philippine Village Historic Site commemorative marker.

All those in favour?

Aye.

Oppose?

Opposed?

Move that the board give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of Bill No. 7021 on the day of its introduction.

Second. All those in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Okay, very good. Let the minutes reflect. The board has given unanimous consent.

Let's introduce Bill No. 70 21, approving an encroachment agreement with Concordia Seminary for the installation of the Philippine Village Historical Site Commemorative Marker to be read for the second time by title only.

Second. Any discussion? City Attorney.

Bill number 7021, second reading and consideration for adoption. An ordinance authorizing the city manager to execute an encroachment agreement with Concordia Seminary for the installation of the Philippine Village Historic Site commemorative marker.

Alderman Berkowitz. Aye. Alderwoman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Aldermen Gary Feder. Aye. Aldeman Rick Hummell.

Alderman Berkowitz. Aye. Alderwoman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Aldermen Fader. Aye. Aldeman Hummel.

Aye.

Mayor Harris.

Aye.

Thank you.

i just wanted to recognize that online we have our representative from the philippine cultural community jenna aluevo langholz she's been listening this whole time sorry jenna i didn't realize that you were on is there anything you would like to say to address the board after we've now gotten this all approved you don't have to you're muted You may have. No, I don't have

any further comments, Mayor Harris. Thank you very much.

Thank you for all your work on this. Appreciate it. Oh, and I did want to mention too that you've worked on this other thing. The Missouri Historical Society, the History Museum has an amazing exhibit now on the 1904 World's Fair. If you haven't seen it, I urge you to go. It's incredible. And I know Jana worked on the Philippine exhibit portion of that, and it's really a remarkable exhibit. And PJV did the scale model of the fairgrounds, which is huge, extended way beyond Forest Park. Thank you, Jonna, for attending tonight. Okay, now we are at the point where we're going to adjourn. Motion to

adjourn? No?

Okay.

That was not an objection from the audience. I'm

happy with that. The staff is saying, oh, not already.

Yeah, so we need a motion to adjourn. I'll do it

again. Motion to adjourn. Second.

You have to say this in the

motion to adjourn Cine. All those in

favor. Aye. Okay, very good. Now we will be swearing in the alderman that we're elected minus Jeff Jeffery Yorg who is out of town. He's actually online. Oh, Jeff, hello. Well, we can't swear you in

favor. Aye. Okay, very good. Now we will be swearing in the alderman that we're elected minus Jeff York who is out of town. He's actually online. Oh, Jeff, hello. Well, we can't swear you in

virtually. You can. I was sworn in virtually. I'm not saying that we will. I apologize but it's not illegal.

He has to show his face. He has to be showing his face. Okay. Okay, fine. Well, we can proceed with the swearing in.

You probably won't mind missing. Do we do it together or individually?

I customarily do it separate.

Okay. June is in charge now. That's great. Can

I go first or second?

No, go ahead. Seniority rules. And then Anna can go home.

Good. Alderman Berkowitz, you can please keep your seat since you're still in action because we have not sworn in your replacement. So you are served until such thing has been accomplished.

Mr. Yorg is AWOL.

He's online, but yeah. Okay. So now we will then start our second meeting of the evening. Will you please call the roll?

Alderman Berkowitz here. Alderwoman McAndrew here. Alderman Buse here. Alderman Patel here. Alderman Gary Feder

Alderman Berkowitz here. Alderwoman McAndrew here. Alderman Buse here. Alderman Patel here. Alderman Fader

here.

Alderman Rick Hummell

Alderman Hummel

Mayor Harris here. City Manager David Gipson

Mayor Harris here. City Manager Gibson

here.

City Attorney O'Keefe

here.

Thank you. Now's the time for public requests and petitions from the audience. Does anyone have anything they'd like to discuss with us? Any congratulations?

Probably not. Okay.

All right, very good. City Manager report.

All right. First item, several of the windows along the south elevation of City Hall are in need of repairs to sash pivots, balancers, and glass. Replacement parts are no longer available for these windows, which were installed as a part of the 2004 renovation. Bids were received on March 29, 2024, for the replacement of 13 double-hung windows and one top window. When construction will be aluminum clad wood, simulated divided lights with grills in between the between the glass screens and factory applied historic casings. The city received two bids and the Public Works Department is recommending the single hung windows quoted from Seals Enterprises in the amount of $42,810. This project was not funded in the fiscal year 2024 budget and will need to be included in upcoming budget amendment if savings from other approved capital projects are not available. Staff recommends that the Board of Aldermen approve the ordinance authorizing a contract with Seals Enterprises Incorporated in the amount of $42,810 plus a contingency of $4,000 for the 10 North Beamiston South Elevation Window Replacement Project.

Okay, very good. I'll open the discussion. Any comments or questions? I don't think there are any from the audience. Any comments or question up here? Start over here with our senior

Let's introduce bill number 7022, approving. Can we ask a question

first? I did. I know you did. It was. I jumped ahead. Questions or comments? Any questions or comments first? Are you in a hurry to get this over with? I

didn't think

anybody had any. I'm sorry. I

thought you were going to stretch the meeting out because you don't want to go. And now you're just jumping ahead. Okay.

I've

jumped ahead.

Go ahead. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do that. You guys might have a comment first. That's fine.

You want to talk about the windows?

I don't

know. Anybody else? Sounds like we need them since we can't fix them anymore.

I just have a question because you mentioned that it was not in the capital plan and I was curious about whether any of our approved capital projects have come in under budget or been determined not to be needed this year.

Not yet. We're hoping some do, but we're still fairly early in the capital projects and seeing how those final expenses come in. If we identify savings, we'll definitely go that route rather than budget amendment.

I got nothing.

I was just curious why it wasn't included in the budget. So I'm guessing that there's a identified need, and then I'm wondering how quickly this needs to be done and will be done.

Yeah, so the Band-Aids aren't working anymore, and it's to the point where we just need to replace them. You can actually go in my office and take my window apart. I know they tried to fix it one time, and apparently the whole window came out, and I wasn't in there. And that's not uncommon. You can feel drafts, they're done, and we can't replace the pieces that are broken. So something that probably should have made it into the budget at some point but didn't. So we're looking to move forward with it now. But we do want those replaced as quickly as possible because summer's coming and they just leak a ton of air, be it hot or cold. So we should see a lot of energy efficiency gain along with this as well. Thank

you. Yeah, I just didn't know whether this was like Slate or any other delays, if you had any concerns about that.

No, I don't know if Matt Malek knows a better timeline, but the window turnaround is a little bit quicker than most of the things we're buying. Yeah, should be able to get it underway fairly quickly.

Okay, great. If there's no further discussion, we can introduce the bill. Hey, Rick. All right, thanks.

I'd like to introduce bill number 7022, approving a contract with Seals Enterprises Inc. for 10 North Beemiston-Windsor replacement project to be read for the first time by title only.

Second. Any discussion? Okay, Mr. City Attorney.

Bill number 7022, first reading in ordinance, approving a contact with Seals Enterprise Incorporated for 10 North Beeminston-South Elevation window replacements.

All those in favor? Aye. Opposed?

I move that the board give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of bill number 7022 on the day of its introduction.

Second. All those in favor. Aye. Opposed. Okay, let the minutes reflect. The board has given unanimous consent.

Let's introduce bill number 7022, approving a contract with Seals Enterprises, Inc. for 10 North Beemiston window replacements project to be read for the second time by title only.

Second. Any discussion? All right, Mr. City Attorney.

Bill number 7022, second reading and consideration for adoption, an ordinance approving a contract with Seals Enterprises, Inc., for the 10 North Beamist and South Elevation window replacement.

Alderman Berkowitz.

Aye.

Alderwoman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Alderon Patel. Aye. Aldermen Bader.

Aye.

Aldeman Rick Hummell. Aye. Mayor Harris. Aye. Thank you.

Aldeman Hummel. Aye. Mayor Harris. Aye. Thank you.

Okay. Very good. Last but not least, the ADA Improvements Project.

The Public Works Department is requesting approval of a construction contract with Kingsland Concrete Contractor for the ADA Improvements Fiscal Year 24 project. Similar to past years, this project will include the replacement of various sidewalk curb ramps, curbs, and streetscape that do not meet ADA requirements throughout the city. Areas of work are identified through our ADA transition plan implementation, inspections and citizen reported issues. This contract work will involve the replacement in areas that are not suitable to be ground down or otherwise addressed by public works operation staff. Bids were open on April 2nd and the city received four bids. Kingsland Concrete Contractor submitted the lowest responsive responsible bid and the amount of $111,185 The bid package identified that there is $100,000 budgeted for the project and adjustments to the final quantities may be made to meet this budget. The contractor is aware of this and the contract will be executed for the budgeted amount. Ad alternatives are included for fiscal year 25 and fiscal year 26. Staff intends to accept the ad alternatives if funds are available in those fiscal years. Staff recommends that the Board of Aldermen approve the ordinance authorizing a contract with Kingsland Concrete Contractor in the base amount of $100,000 for the ADA improvements fiscal year 24 project.

I'll open the discussion. Any questions? So is this the crosswalk thing or is there, is

this?

This is not crosswalks. This is replacing sidewalk slabs throughout the city that have big gaps if we have areas that need to be replaced.

The gaps, meaning?

Meaning the separation where slabs have been raised due to trees or other

things. Oh, I see.

Yeah, we try to grind those, but if it gets to be too big of a differential, then at that point we have to replace the slab. So this is where we go through, and we do this every year, we take $100,000 and go through and fix those slabs that are in the worst shape.

That's in the neighborhoods?

It is. It's all throughout the city.

there's a bunch of them in ames in uh in in wide out forest yeah we've

got them everywhere

so we just no i know i know they're everywhere okay good

good yeah i i i didn't remember that there was like i i didn't Remember that we capped it at 100 so we basically spend 100 every year so we've been doing everything i didn't remember That it was capped off i had a question about that so we'll kind of get to a hundred thousand dollars and then stop and then get to the next worst ones next year

Yeah, we prioritize this list every year, and we usually try to put together a quantity that is very close to $100,000, so it's representative to the contractor. We've been doing this for four or five years at least, and as you see prices go up, over time we're going to be able to do less as prices get higher. So we'll probably be looking at adjustments to this in future CIPs to maybe go up to the 120 mark like we approved it for last year. But right now we're just looking for the budgeted amount.

Sounds good. Thanks. Yeah, good question. Alderman Buse, anything? Alderman Patel?

Yeah, I would just suggest that we... I would like to know... like how many sidewalks remain essentially inaccessible because of our budget restriction. And I would like to ensure that we try to increase the budget if needed to ensure that our sidewalks are truly accessible.

um the

like going forward

yes so the ada transition plan that was done in 2014 identified all of the different um issues and to guess to be clear things that are ada issues we address more than just ada issues with this too is if something is there can be a defect in a sidewalk slab that's maybe not an ada issue but it still needs to be repaired um The biggest impedance that we had through our transition plan was the curb ramps. At the end of next year's Central Business District project, we'll have replaced a little over 700 curb ramps by the time that plan was done. So that will be a big chunk of that gone. While that is a bunch of those issues, the big ticket item when it comes to ADA is the sidewalk runs that could be slightly steeper than 2% just in cross slope. Like, it might be 2 and 1 half percent, but that's technically out of compliance. Those where you get to the large dollar expansive items were back in 2018. I think that was estimated to be, at the time, $30 million. And trees continue to grow. Ground continues to settle. So I think you do your best to address the issues that are the biggest concern and try to identify if we're getting it. I've asked our inspectors to say, don't try to limit yourself to the dollar amount. Identify what we need, and we'll have to ask for more if we think we need it.

Right, that's what I appreciate. Thank you. No questions. Thank you. Matt,

I'm just wondering before you sit down, this may not be practical, but I'm sure that these sidewalk issues are germane to all of our wards and neighborhoods. Is it practical to let us know if any in our neighborhood are being repaired in this budget round, just so that we can share that information with our constituents?

So we have a list based off inspections. However, we're continually getting new information in from whether it be resident concerns. That's why I would hate to publish an exact list if you were towards the bottom and something came to our attention that was a higher priority based off of either severity of it or the amount of traffic that an area gets where we try to focus more on that just because there's a higher chance of people being impacted. So if it was done so with the understanding that it's a fluid list that changes, but generally we don't publish that list for that reason.

And that's fine. Alternatively, is it the kind of thing where it's like, okay, we now know we're going to do this in the next X weeks as opposed to like the whole year because I understand some might not make the cut.

I could give a breakdown of percentage per ward or something like that, but I think individual locations could be a challenge.

Okay. Well, that's fine.

All right, very good. Alderman Berkowitz.

I just want to note that this is the last bill that I will be introducing.

don't make any mistakes favorite i'm not sure that

clapping was because we're happy

i wouldn't i wouldn't ask don't ask

all right i'm not i'm not assume the best i will assume i will assume that was a clapping just to let her let me know that um you appreciated all that i've done I'd like to introduce bill number 7023, approving a contract with Kingsland Concrete Contractor LLC for the ADA improvements fiscal year 2024 project to be read for the first time by title only.

Second. Any discussion? Mr. City Attorney. Bill

number 7023, first reading in ordinance, approving a contact with Kingsland Contract LLC. concrete contractor LLC for the ADA improvements fiscal year 24 project.

All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Alderman Berkowitz.

I move that the board give unanimous consent to consideration for adoption of bill number 7023 on the day of its introduction.

Second. All those in favour?

Aye.

Oppose? Let the minutes reflect the board has given unanimous consent.

I would like to introduce Bill number 7023, approving a contract with Kingsland Concrete Contractor LLC for the ADA Improvements Fiscal Year 2024 project to be read for the second time by title only.

Second. Any discussion? Well read. Okay, Mr. City Attorney.

Bill number 7023, second reading and consideration for adoption. An ordinance approving a contract with Kingsland Concrete Contractor LLC for the ADA improvements, Ira Berkowitz Memorial Fiscal Year 24

project. I'm going to go, you're going to go last. Alderman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Alderwoman Patel. Aye. Aldermen Gary Feder. Aye.

project. I'm going to go, you're going to go last. Alderman McAndrew. Aye. Alderman Buse. Aye. Alderwoman Patel. Aye. Aldermen Fader. Aye.

Aye.

Mayor Harris? Aye. Alderman Berkowitz?

The big aye.

Thank

you. That concludes this meeting. Now it's late, but I still think it's important. It's a good time for us to compliment if possible. Alderman Berkowitz, on his service over the past nine years and have it in the record. for perpetuity. So I will go last and Bridget, you take the lead. Oh God. I didn't

know we were going to do this. You don't have to. It's late. It's kind of a tradition. No, I mean, Ira, what I most hope, I want to thank you for your many years of service. You do a wonderful job advocating for the people of this community and I thank you for that. and what I most hope is that we will continue to run into each other as you walk around the city because I will look forward to many more walks in the years to come so thank you it's been a pleasure serving with you and I hope don't be a stranger I

actually wrote something out Ira and then I had to like edit it and have some filter on it but um You know, all I can say is, oh, Ira. And I guess I need some words with that too. Starting to talk about somebody, there's two things you can do. You can tell a really bad joke or you can start about when you first met. And I'll go with when we first met, which you probably don't. I think the first time I remember was a number of years ago. I'd stepped back from my full-time law practice and I had children at each of the Clayton schools. In fact, I should rephrase that. I stepped back from my whole-time law practice because I had children at eight of our three schools. and I found myself reluctantly running for school board. And I was reluctant not because of the board service, because I certainly cared a lot about and was involved with our kids in neighborhoods. I was reluctant because of the running, because of frigging campaigning. If you have to put that in the record, okay, how about the stressful campaigning? And it was the yard signs. It was knocking on people's doors on a Saturday afternoon, and I actually thought about that. I felt like the gas-powered leaf blower when everybody was sitting around quietly at their homes. And So I was with a politically savvy friend, and she's like, get over it. You've got to get out there. In fact, I've got this really nice neighbor that we can go knock on his door. And so we walk over to your house, and we knock on the door, and my luck was such that it wasn't Julie who answered. So I greet my friend very warmly. She introduces me, and then she says, well, we're here, and I start to say something, and it's that first time that I saw that look, you know, the Ira look of why are you here? And we exchanged a few words. He closes the door and probably goes back to lunch. And my friend and I walked down the driveway and it's really quiet. And then she looks at me and she goes, Yeah, I probably should have mentioned he's from New Jeffery Yorg. So now we've now served a few years together and I know you a lot better. I love that we challenge and push each other's thinking and often come out at different places, but that's okay and sometimes the same place. And I've also found that my friend was right under some camouflage. And despite all the times you've tried to tutor me not to be too nice, you're pretty darn nice. And don't worry, I still respect your intellect and wisdom. And I admire how loyal you are and how focused on the things and the people you care about. I mean, you don't give up. And during our time together, board service hasn't always been easy, and life hasn't always been easier. You could have just stepped back lots of times and let someone else carry the load. And you never did. And you don't. You put yourself out there, and you care. And caring, it's tough business. It's messy, and people lean on you. And it's done best together. And that brings into another quality that you contribute. And this one took me some time to discover. You're actually optimistic. And that you believe that things can be done and we have to keep working at it, but we can get there and that we're all okay. And it really is a gift to know and work with you. And I hope that I'm not being too nice in saying that. Our city is better each day because of you. And what I ask now is please stay loud in our community and in our friendships. And thank you for being you.

actually wrote something out Ira and then I had to like edit it and have some filter on it but um You know, all I can say is, oh, Ira. And I guess I need some words with that too. Starting to talk about somebody, there's two things you can do. You can tell a really bad joke or you can start about when you first met. And I'll go with when we first met, which you probably don't. I think the first time I remember was a number of years ago. I'd stepped back from my full-time law practice and I had children at each of the Clayton schools. In fact, I should rephrase that. I stepped back from my whole-time law practice because I had children at eight of our three schools. and I found myself reluctantly running for school board. And I was reluctant not because of the board service, because I certainly cared a lot about and was involved with our kids in neighborhoods. I was reluctant because of the running, because of frigging campaigning. If you have to put that in the record, okay, how about the stressful campaigning? And it was the yard signs. It was knocking on people's doors on a Saturday afternoon, and I actually thought about that. I felt like the gas-powered leaf blower when everybody was sitting around quietly at their homes. And So I was with a politically savvy friend, and she's like, get over it. You've got to get out there. In fact, I've got this really nice neighbor that we can go knock on his door. And so we walk over to your house, and we knock on the door, and my luck was such that it wasn't Julie who answered. So I greet my friend very warmly. She introduces me, and then she says, well, we're here, and I start to say something, and it's that first time that I saw that look, you know, the Ira look of why are you here? And we exchanged a few words. He closes the door and probably goes back to lunch. And my friend and I walked down the driveway and it's really quiet. And then she looks at me and she goes, Yeah, I probably should have mentioned he's from New York. So now we've now served a few years together and I know you a lot better. I love that we challenge and push each other's thinking and often come out at different places, but that's okay and sometimes the same place. And I've also found that my friend was right under some camouflage. And despite all the times you've tried to tutor me not to be too nice, you're pretty darn nice. And don't worry, I still respect your intellect and wisdom. And I admire how loyal you are and how focused on the things and the people you care about. I mean, you don't give up. And during our time together, board service hasn't always been easy, and life hasn't always been easier. You could have just stepped back lots of times and let someone else carry the load. And you never did. And you don't. You put yourself out there, and you care. And caring, it's tough business. It's messy, and people lean on you. And it's done best together. And that brings into another quality that you contribute. And this one took me some time to discover. You're actually optimistic. And that you believe that things can be done and we have to keep working at it, but we can get there and that we're all okay. And it really is a gift to know and work with you. And I hope that I'm not being too nice in saying that. Our city is better each day because of you. And what I ask now is please stay loud in our community and in our friendships. And thank you for being you.

But can you go ahead and tell the bad joke too? Half an hour ago, I could have. All right. Yeah. Alderman Patel, your turn.

Thanks, Ira. I'll just say that I think one of the things that you bring to your board service is vision. Like you have ideas and you are consistent and in sharing them and advocating them for them and pushing us to be better and expect more and so i think that's great i appreciate it um and we'll still see you around alderman Gary Feder

Thanks, Ira. I'll just say that I think one of the things that you bring to your board service is vision. Like you have ideas and you are consistent and in sharing them and advocating them for them and pushing us to be better and expect more and so i think that's great i appreciate it um and we'll still see you around alderman fader

i

have to say something different than what i said mug so Um, yeah, I ran, I served on CCF together for a long time before we ever together on this board. And I particularly remember our experience with the rink before it was the centene project, but just when we were, we had the big tax increase and I think Ira was out there getting videotaped and we were all in the same committee and we all worked very hard together. And those were the days where we actually might've pulled this thing off because those were different times. But, um, that's when I began to realize how much Ira cared about the community and So he's always had my respect. I do remember a couple of times where we were not exactly in agreement. At one time I wrote down, he said I was over my skis or something like that. And then it was, of course, the time where I accused him of telling him to stop cross-examining whoever was in front of us. And there were other times where I noticed, I always look over at Ira and occasionally he's nodding his head like, I don't know what the hell he's talking about. But I probably do that to him, too. But, you know, again, the point was, and I will repeat it, is that it's part of us being lawyers is that there is a certain attractiveness to being contentious occasionally. And but the main thing about it is you learn in practice is, you know, you get over it and you get over it quickly. And I remember that night where I said he should stop cross-examining the witness. We met up at Muggs, you know, and we said, hey, let's move on. You know, man, we got a lot of work to do. So he's got my respect, always will, and it's been a pleasure to serve with him. Thank you.

Great. Ira, I'm sorry I wasn't able to attend your soiree. I was on vacation and off the continental U.S., so I'm sorry I weren't there. My service with you has been relatively short, but in that short time, I've come to admire the perspective that you bring, your expertise, and your experience that you bring. I admire the fact that you're willing to speak your mind and you do so in a constructive way. I think you bring a real passion to your service, and I think you have served your constituents and the community well and so I'm very appreciative of that so thank you.

And again, I don't want to repeat all that I said at mugs either. But just to remind us, you know, we go back a long way. I think I like to feel proud of the fact that I recruited you into public service in the city of Clayton into government service by by putting you, nominating you for the ice rink task force. And as I said before, we're still on it. We'll never leave it, I guess. But that was all inspired by the way that you reacted to that one election where you were working against me, but I won. And then you, but then you reached out. You reached out because I think one of the big things you bring to this whole enterprise is your humanity. And I think a lot of times, you know, I can remember when we talked about trash, you were worried about those who might not be able to afford the bill. And it's just that sentiment that you bring so often that I know I tend to gloss over. And so that's a very important thing for our board and our city to always keep in mind is the you know consider everyone um you've all and and as everybody has said you've brought a lot of passion to the the things you care most about um but you're but you're you know uh you're always you know interested and engaged in in everything that we do um and especially given the past few years of of hardships I think that's been very hard to do but you have hung in there and you've been really resilient. And I mean, we really appreciate that because we value your input so much. But your growth from in the way you tackle things and your contributions just grew and grew over the years from the ice rink task force to the Parks and Rec Commission to our board. And you've taken a leadership role in a number of things that we've been doing over the past few years. And then lastly, I really appreciate your support of me personally. A lot of times when I've been either discouraged or disappointed or, you know, stressed out, striving to get something done here, you've been there to support me and I really appreciate that too. And I won't forget that. And I hope that, and I know that we'll continue to maintain that friendship going forward. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your service. You think for a minute, I'd like to give anyone else here an opportunity, any staff or anybody to say anything. Yeah, but just say something

similar again on behalf of the staff. You made us better all the time on a regular basis. You know, I always know when I pick up the phone and call Ira, I'm going to get his real opinion, his real thoughts on what we have. And it's good feedback. It's constructive and good things come out of that. And I like that if we disagree about something, you're going to tell me, hey, I disagree with that viewpoint. And, you know, we'll move on to the next item and then we're laughing about something. And that's great. it's been consistently the four and a half years i've been here and um i i appreciate it like i said you you made us better and um you know i want to thank you for that

but any any other uh anybody else okay all right floor is yours if you want to say anything you don't have to you don't have yeah really

I will definitely communicate with each and every one of you after this meeting in one way or another. I really liked the way Rich did it when he left, and I got just an incredibly poignant and warm sentiments from him. And I plan on doing the same for each and every one I have had a wonderful time as an alderman. I did not want this day to come. I enjoy the board. I enjoy all of you. I enjoy serving. I enjoy thinking. Problem solving, you know, as much as we can all do that together, we've done it. This is a very, very strong board, very strong opinions. People are very interested in looking out for everyone else in this community when they speak and when they come up with their opinions. And I have the utmost respect for every one of you and how this board is operated. Michelle, your leadership has been fantastic. Just amazing. It really has been. Better than I thought it would be.

I thank you, I think.

And but I, you know, so I really I really have not looked forward to this moment. But, you know, it had to come. Time is time is not something we control. So I really appreciated everything, everything that's happened for me over the last nine years. And when I look over that nine years, well, let me let me I just want it in the record because this is this is this is important to me. My first venture into Clayton politics, and it wasn't really politics. My first venture into a Clayton governance was something like probably about 20, almost 20 years ago. Michelle went on to say that 18 years ago is when we met, which was on the Ice Ring Task Force.

But we met in 2006 when I ran for alderman.

When you ran for alderman, that's right. In fact, Scott and I talked for quite a while outside the polls, and we actually made friends. But I was in this very chamber back a couple of years before that when Mayor Uchitel had threatened that he was going to close the ice rink. And I came here with my son, Jeremy at the time, who was, I think, six. And Jeremy, in fact, got up to that podium and he spoke to Ben Uchitel as though they were friends and let Ben have it. He just let him have it. And I was amazed that he was willing to do that and could do that because he had had two birthday parties at the ice rink and he was very upset that the ice rink could possibly be closed in a community like Clayton. And it was from that time on that Ben opened his eyes and he opened his ears, and that led to a survey of the residents and led to the Ice Ring Task Force. There was actually an article written in the Post-Dispatch the next day about Jeremy's little talk with Mayor Uchitel. um that was my first far away foray into at least seeing what happens here you know what's good what goes on here and uh it told me that i had the bug and it told me that you know what i i want to contribute i want to do something for this for this city and that's when it started so been a long time but it's been a great a great journey so I don't plan on quitting altogether, so you all will see me again. Sorry to say. But I appreciate all your comments. Thank you all very much. It's been a great run.

Good. Good. Well, we'll look forward to seeing you here advocating for one thing or another.

One thing or another.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Unless there is further comment, we will take a motion to adjourn. Your last actual last motion.

Motion to adjourn, and it will be Bridget's last seconding, I assume.

Second. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Okay, very good.

All right. Thank you very much, everybody.

All right. This was like a school board meeting. Four hours. Holy cow.