April 10, 2024 — Meeting Transcript

Okay. Hi, everyone. Adequate notice has been given. Now it's time to say the pledge. I feel like Amy. I didn't know which shoulder it was. I pledge allegiance to the flag. And Gary, I think we have a motion to adopt.

I move that the Board of Education adopt the agenda as posted. Second.

All those in favor? Aye. OK, motion passes. OK, agenda item 2.01, election results. Three candidates filed for two open seats. The unofficial election results for the School District of Clayton Board of Directors are Pam Lislerman, 1,381 votes, 39.8%. Leo Human, 1,282 votes, 36.95%. And Jason Wilson, 807 votes, 23.26%. The results remain unofficial until the certification by the Board of Elections office is completed, which will be within the next week. Leo Human and Pam List-Lehrman will take the oath of office tonight. Do you want to read? Does Gary read the motion to adjourn or do I?

All those in favor? Aye. OK, motion passes. OK, agenda item 2.01, election results. Three candidates filed for two open seats. The unofficial election results for the School District of Clayton Board of Directors are Pam Lislerman, 1,381 votes, 39.8%. Leo Heumann, 1,282 votes, 36.95%. And Jason Wilson, 807 votes, 23.26%. The results remain unofficial until the certification by the Board of Elections office is completed, which will be within the next week. Leo Heumann and Pam List-Lehrman will take the oath of office tonight. Do you want to read? Does Gary read the motion to adjourn or do I?

I move that the Board of Education adjourn the board Cinedia, I think.

Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion passes. Okay. Okay, I will now call up Leo Human to be sworn in and Jason Growe is going to read him the oath of office.

Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion passes. Okay. Okay, I will now call up Leo Heumann to be sworn in and Jason Groh is going to read him the oath of office.

Okay. I do solemnly affirm that I am at least 24 years of age. I do solemnally affirm that I am a citizen of the United States and a resident taxpayer of the school district of Clayton in St. Louis County in the state of Missouri,

and that I will support the constitutions of the United States

and that I will support the constitutions of the United States and the state of Missouri, and that I will abide by and uphold the School District of Clayton Board Member Code of Ethics, and that I'll abide by and

uphold School District of Claytown Board Member Code of ethics,

and will faithfully conduct myself in office.

Congratulations, Leo and family, and welcome. I'd now like to call on Pam Liss-Lerman. Oh, Leo, you get a seat. Chris

Nguyen will be reading her autobiography.

I do solemnly affirm that I am at least 24 years of age, that I am a citizen of the United States and a resident taxpayer of the School District of

Clayton, in St. Louis County and the State of Missouri, and that I will support the Constitution of the United States And that I will support the constitutions of the United States and of the state of Missouri. And that I will abide by and uphold the school district of Clayton board member code of ethics. And that I would abide by and uphold

Congratulations to Pam and your family, and welcome to the board table. I would also publicly like to thank Jason Wilson for his many years of service on the Board of Education, and we are making a donation to the Clayton Education Foundation in honor of his years of service. So thank you, Jason, if you're listening. Thank you.

We will now go ahead and begin the election process for our new officers. So the first election this evening will be for the school board president for the school district of Clayton, and nominations are now open for president. Are there any nominations?

I have one. Yes. I would like to nominate Stacy for president. Thank you. If you don't mind just sharing a few thoughts about why you believe that Stacey Seawalk would be a good candidate.

Absolutely. Stacey has an exemplary record of being very committed to this board. She gives time, she gives energy, she gives her heart and she is excellent in people skills, organizational skills, I could go on and on. So I have absolute faith that she will take this extremely seriously and I really look forward to her being our president.

Stacey Seawolf, do you accept the nomination? I accept the nomination.

Would you like to share some of your thoughts about accepting it? Thank you. Thank you, Chris, for the kind words. I would be honored to be president of this school board, and I think that one of my strengths are my positive and strong relationships with all the stakeholders in our community. all the community members not just district families but families that don't even have kids in this district i know many of them very well and have great relationships with them as well as with our administrators our teachers and even our students so i feel like i have a broad reach of connecting with the community which actually is one of our bold our board goals better community outreach and community engagement and i'm really looking forward to using my strengths to improve in that area. So thank you again, Chris, for the nomination and I accept.

Great.

Are there any other nominations?

Hearing no further nominations, we will go ahead and proceed to the election. All in favor for Stacy Siwak as board president? Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations, Stacy Siwak. Thank you. You are the board president for the school district. Thank you. and I will

Hearing no further nominations, we will go ahead and proceed to the election. All in favor for Stacy Seawalk as board president? Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations, Stacy Seawalk. Thank you. You are the board president for the school district. Thank you. and I will

gladly relinquish the rest of the meeting to you. Thank you, I'm honored. The next election this evening will be for the office of vice president of the board. Nominations are now open for vice president.

I would like to nominate Kim Hurst.

Thank you. Jason, would you like to share a few words about why you nominate Kim?

Yeah, I've had the pleasure of sitting next to and working with Kim over the past couple years closely attending some of the same committee meetings and just sort of watching her leadership on the board and helping us, you know, helping us through many, you know, some issues over the past couple of years. I think her leadership has really frankly shown through over the past six to nine months or so. I'm really excited to see her take on this expanded role as a leader on the board.

Are there any other nominations for Vice President? Okay, hearing no further nominations. Nominations are closed. We will now proceed to the election. The candidate for Vice President is Kim Hurst. All in favor of Kim as Vice President? Say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. Kim is elected vice president of the school board. Congratulations. The next election this evening will be for the office of secretary of the board. Nominations are now open for secretary. I would like to nominate Chris Win as secretary of the board I think Chris is an extremely dedicated and conscientious board member. She always comes extremely prepared with lots of thoughtful questions. She's very organized. She's very dedicated, very committed. And I know that she will take the role of secretary very seriously by not only reading the motions at the board but also reviewing our minutes in detail. And I trust Chris would do a great job as secretary. Are there any other nominations? Okay, hearing no further nominations, they are closed. The candidate for secretary is Chris Nguyen. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Okay, Chris Nguyen has received the votes necessary and is declared an elected secretary of the board. Congratulations. The next election for this evening will be for the office of treasurer of the board. Nominations are now open for board treasurer.

Are there any other nominations for Vice President? Okay, hearing no further nominations. Nominations are closed. We will now proceed to the election. The candidate for Vice President is Kim Hurst. All in favor of Kim as Vice President? Say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. Kim is elected vice president of the school board. Congratulations. The next election this evening will be for the office of secretary of the board. Nominations are now open for secretary. I would like to nominate Chris Winn as secretary of the board I think Chris is an extremely dedicated and conscientious board member. She always comes extremely prepared with lots of thoughtful questions. She's very organized. She's very dedicated, very committed. And I know that she will take the role of secretary very seriously by not only reading the motions at the board but also reviewing our minutes in detail. And I trust Chris would do a great job as secretary. Are there any other nominations? Okay, hearing no further nominations, they are closed. The candidate for secretary is Chris Nguyen. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Okay, Chris Nguyen has received the votes necessary and is declared an elected secretary of the board. Congratulations. The next election for this evening will be for the office of treasurer of the board. Nominations are now open for board treasurer.

I nominate Jason Growe for board treasuer.

I nominate Jason Groh for board treasuer.

Thank you. Could you tell us why you are nominating Jason?

Yeah, absolutely. So Jason has had the unfortunate job of being dragged to every financial planning meeting almost that I've been a part of in the last it's been year and a half, almost two years, two years because he served as an interim Um, board position two years. I have been treasurer for the last three years on the board. Um, so I think that's actually a very critical responsibility of, uh, the board treasurer to not only, um, understand how school district finances work, but also educate the rest of the board on how school district finances. Work. Now, Leo has an advantage having served on the long-term financial planning committee for a lot of years. So he comes with a little bit of a head start. Pam, you're going to love learning about school finances. And this is just the guy to teach you all about it. But no, in all seriousness, Jason's got a great financial background. He's a very critical thinker. He has all of the qualities, I think, to be a successful partner to John, who's our CFO. who of course is Nisha's partner, and as we look at some of the things that the school district plans to engage in in the next few years, not least of which is this long-range facility study, and we're gonna talk about that tonight, as well as some other improvements, capital improvements that are on the slate for the district. I think it's a very critical role We're very lucky to have John. John is hopefully here with us for a long time, but I can imagine also a scenario in which John came out of retirement to come and help the school district of Clayton. We hope he stays forever, but if he doesn't, we may also be in search for a new CFO. So the board treasurer position is going to be very, very critical, I think, in the next couple years. So maybe you'll do it for three.

Thank you. Are there other nominations for board treasurer? Okay, hearing no further nominations, they are closed. The candidate for board treasurer is Jason Growe. All in favor of Jason as board treasurer say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No opposed. Jason has received the votes necessary and is declared elected treasurer. Congratulations, Jason. Okay. We now move on to recognizing our own. All

Thank you. Are there other nominations for board treasurer? Okay, hearing no further nominations, they are closed. The candidate for board treasurer is Jason Groh. All in favor of Jason as board treasurer say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No opposed. Jason has received the votes necessary and is declared elected treasurer. Congratulations, Jason. Okay. We now move on to recognizing our own. All

right. Well, good evening. I get the privilege of introducing a few of our outstanding CHS students tonight. And so if I could have Addie Weitzel and Julia Mann come join me. And then Claire, if you could as well, the activity sponsors for this. So let me talk a little bit about what they've been doing and some of the work they've been doing. So the Dance Marathon is a nationwide student-led organization that raises money and awareness for Children's Miracle Network hospitals. So Clayton High School specifically participates by raising money for St. Louis Children's Hospital and SSM Health. Cardinal Glennon. So throughout the year, they do a lot of different fundraising things, car washes and things, and it all culminates on one evening. And from somebody who got to attend that evening, it is a lot of fun. And so they did some great work, raised a lot of money. And so we're super proud of all of the hard work that they put in. And so on behalf of everybody here, thank you so much for all your hard work. If we could all give them a hand. And if our newly elected board president and superintendent would like to come up here, we'll go ahead and take a picture. And let's.

Luke, would you like to share or would they like to share how much they raised?

Yeah, we raised $47,241 this year.

Good evening, everybody. For the second recognizing our own item tonight, we wanted to celebrate all of the awardees and recipients of the awards that were presented last Tuesday night in this space by PacEd. So PacEd distributed their inclusion awards for 2024, and it's an opportunity for PacEd to represent and recognize teachers and students and support staff throughout our district who have demonstrated outstanding skills and dedication to our increasingly diverse student population. So tonight, I just wanted to take a moment to recognize all of the folks who received awards last Tuesday night. For the staff who received the Making Inclusion Happen Award, we wanted to celebrate Patty Kasue, Megan Milnes, Gwen Kennerly, Amy Oliver, Molly Lawless, Camille Shaverin, Laura Bruguier, Steve Beecham, Ryan Holleran, and Mike Brodsky for their leadership in our schools and with our students. We had several students also receive the Student Champion for Inclusive Excellence Award, and those winners were Grace Wolf and Evie Sayili. and several students were also recognized as honorees in this category and they were roman boric jace whitfield jack mcdaniel molly siwak noah lerman michael lotsoff and stella pleen the winners of the 2024 clayton packet inclusion awards visual arts contest were at captain mina lou lea ward and quinn nelson odette dainwood and elizabeth henderson and we also honored captain's students Emerson Shue, Ryan Paisley, Faye McGaughy, Della Vines, Miles Rogers, and Alice Finn. And over at Glenridge, we want to celebrate Anvi Vora, Nora Guire, and Plager Ham for their first, second, and third places in that same visual arts contest. And the honorees over at Glenridge were Amanda Ningo, Ian Hadzizabek, Alice Hicks, Dasha Domitzeva, Nadine Huguna, Macy Choquette, Mabel Oliver, Maddie O'Leary, Elle Boyce, Roger Wake, Sydney Schmink, Luna Hom, Bridget Dusson, and Zaoqing Li. And then over at Merrimack, we recognize Carolyn Chen, who got first and second place because she submitted multiple pieces of art, and Kavya Choudhary. And over at Y-Down, we want to celebrate Win Vong. So I just want to thank all of the staff and the students who submitted nominations. And it was a really joyful event last week. And we also were able to celebrate our local in-house author, Grace Wolf. And her brother, Sam Gross, helped us present the awards as well. So thank you to all the folks who helped make that event happen. And we also want to thank the outgoing PAC-Ed president, Christina Blankenship, for her leadership and welcome our incoming president, Megan Linehan, who's a Glenridge parent. Thank you.

Thank you. Congratulations to all the award recipients and honorees. I think one of them is here tonight, coincidentally. Congratulations. Luke, do we have any public comments? Then we are on to 6.01, Long Range Facility Master Plan Consultant and John.

Good evening everyone. Providing students with safe facilities that are conducive to learning is always an important facility management goal for us. School Facilities Master Plan allows everyone to look at the big picture and evaluate facility projects that have already been completed or are currently underway or are being planned in the future. Without a comprehensive overview of the state of the district's facilities, it's challenging to make plans that respond rapidly to the changing school environment. including changing student enrollments, changing student demographics, accessibility issues, adaptions to new technology along with accommodating new and evolving education programs. The school facilities master plan is a document that describes the state of the district infrastructure, details the capacity of our school buildings within the district for forecast trends to make To determine future student population it also provides up-to-date information on recently completed improvement projects and identifies issues that still need to be addressed Facility master plans also include information about costs associated with future projects and what goals they're meant to achieve They are certainly helpful for public schools at every level they include a broader vision for the entire district as well as targeted projects for individual schools and Most facility management plans also include long-term maintenance plans, specifically focusing on maintaining facilities to ensure safety and security. Developing a facilities master plan requires a significant investment of district time and budget, but the advantages are numerous, and we are wanting to start that process here. Tonight before you, we have a proposal to engage Paragon Architecture as our consultant for proceeding with a master plan for this district. Our prior plan that's sun setting effect was adopted in 2008. Paragon Architecture has been providing architectural services in Missouri since 2003 and a large contingent of their clients are public schools. uh... they recently completed a facility master plan for valley park school district and they're currently conducting one for kirkwood school district during the interview process it was apparent that paragon understood the strengths and opportunities of our district best Their communications and responsiveness have been exceptional and have impressed the interview panel with their strengths, collaboration, and community engagement. The Paragon team has the capacity to meet our scheduled goals and project targets. Their collaborative approach to planning and high retention rate of past clients, fixed fee schedule, and remarkable success rate of passing bond referendums current project workload balance and have a team here in St. Louis contribute to recommending them for this project. Attached is a letter agreement setting forth the scope of services and the related fees. Paragon's fees are $220,000 plus reimbursable costs not to exceed $16,000. Demographic analysis by a third party consultant is $28,000, bringing a total potential cost of $264,000. Paragon estimates approximately 1,700 hours of staff time on the project. And I think we included a copy of their RFQ submission. Be happy to answer any questions.

Okay, time for questions. I will start with Jason Growe.

Okay, time for questions. I will start with Jason Groh.

No questions, just a general comment. You know, Kim and I sat in on the panel interviews when this happened, and it was pretty clear that Paragon was a really excellent choice to move forward to the board. I think everyone who was in there, and by the way, I commend John for pulling together a collaborative group representing a cross-section of stakeholders for the district. I think everyone was impressed with Paragon's collaborative approach and John said it but I think they really demonstrated that their commitment to the word collaboration just in thinking about answering some of the questions but that are specific to the buildings and you know even just sort of engaging a little bit of dialogue with people just to understand a little bit more that that part really shone through and I think that's really an important part of this process for this district.

Thanks. Kim, any questions?

No. The only other thing that I would add is I did think it was a good cross-section of the stakeholders. As Jason said, we're represented there. We had all of the principals from the schools. We also had teachers represented. We had admin represented. And we had the parent community represented. So it was good. And it was a three-hour meeting? Yeah. So we spent an evening here really kind of taking both firms through the paces. Beyond those two firms that were taken to the final selection process, though, there were also two additional firms in Chicago. that had submitted proposals as well as two additional firms in St. Louis. So there was a kind of a comprehensive selection process behind this, Taranaro down to two, and then that stakeholder panel kind of got us to where we are with Paragon. I did ask John in this past week since we've received the proposal to... to see how it compares monetarily against the longer term facility studies that you mentioned are being conducted by two other school districts and it is competitive with that. Ours is a little bit more comprehensive because we've asked for additional things that those other school districts have not. An example, that's the demographics study which John mentioned. I think that's gonna be important particularly when We've kind of, I don't know that we've talked about it at the board table. We certainly have talked about it though with the community and some members of the community including members of this board might have had a chance to walk through the center of Clayton last week when the Clayton 2040 plan was put up there. So the city of Clayton has done their own demographic study and what we want to make sure is that, you know, the findings, they're in line, that those studies also match with each other. The only other thing that I'd bring up just as something of consideration that we will be watching as a board and certainly that I would expect Paragon to watch is As part of the Clayton 2040 study, I have heard from some members of the community this week about rezoning changes in terms of allowable housing within certain wards within our school district. In particular, a rezoning change in Ward 2, I believe that's right, which is where Glen Ridge is. for single family homes to be rezoned for duplexes. And that's being met with a little bit of consternation, I think, by some members of some residents within that community. But those are the types of things that will and could potentially have an impact on our future enrollment trends as we look at this and something that we should be closely working with the city with as well as our alderman with to make sure that we're not doing something that is not in lockstep with what they are Trying to sell as their vision of the community Anything else So, thank you John and Nisha for all the work that you've got to get us to this point Oh timeline John did you mention how long it Paragon said they thought they would take?

There's gonna be some flexibility in this and we'll probably not get underway with the community engagement piece till school starts again in the fall. Between now and then, we'll be engaged in collecting data and preparing surveys and things like that. This will take probably a nine month period of time.

Yeah, and just so everybody's aware, we had challenged that timeline when we all met as a group. And they believe that in order to really properly get the community engagement that we believe is needed, that you have to take that amount of time to get the stakeholder engagement because although you can accelerate the amount of time To get for example like the desk study type of things done to really do the proper community engagement It really takes that amount of time so that you don't you're not perceived as trying to rush things through so If we were to I think the timeline that we saw at the meeting was if we were to start In May that the earliest we could expect to be done is sometime early in the first quarter of next calendar year So there'll be a lot of opportunities for board engagement along that timeline and trajectory. And once we award this, I would expect that we'll have a more comprehensive plan to be able to share. And Paragon has offered to come and share that plan directly with the board. They had even offered to come tonight, and we had said, well, let's wait until we can make sure we get board approval, and then come see us again soon.

Thanks. Gary, any

questions? So when would they, so the start would be sometime in the fall. Are we talking about what budget year is this? This will

be in next budget primarily.

The entire, they would earn their entire fee in next year's budget?

Most of it, yes. Almost all of it will be in next year's We'll do some planning between now and the end of the school year and over the summer and data collection building assessments. Do all that work so when we get to the community engagement thing this fall when people are fully back in school we'll have all that we'll be ready to hit the ground running with that.

DIRECTOR DEWOLF. Is there any impact to your budget planning that you would that this would change or that you're going to share with us and I'm sure it's.

We're working on next year's budget now and we're programming this into that budget.

OK

great.

Thanks Chris any questions.

Yeah. First, thank you all for all your hard work on this. Thank you so much for explaining what you guys did in terms of that, the meetings that you had. It sounds like you guys have really found a great fit for what we're looking for and that's really good to hear and I'm very excited about this process. I know we all are, so thank you for doing that. The other questions I had, most of them were answered. The timeline was my biggest one. I'll ask this question just because timeline is so important to all of us. We do want it to take as long as it needs to take, but we don't want it to take a lot longer than that. And so I guess I'm just thinking, you know, what do you think Paragrant – what could potentially hold up their work? I'm not trying to see into the future, but I'm just trying to have us sort of be aware of and sort of – have expectations be what they should be? You know, is there any chance it wouldn't be done in nine months? And if so, do you have any idea why that would be? If not, that's okay. I just want us to have realistic expectations. I

mean, there's a chance it would not be completed, but as far as deadlines go, I think of it in terms of when the project would be completed and if we were going to build any major projects out of that that would require bond financing. So typically we'd put a bond financing on an April election, and we would have to approve that in January before that April. I don't anticipate us putting anything on the April 25 ballot. I think the soonest ballot would probably be April 26. So that would allow us time to complete this study, engage in any final decisions, engage in any campaigns that we need to run in order to put that on. So I think we can have a bit of a relaxed schedule if we need to. But again, I think the goal is to get this done expeditiously.

Great. Thank you. Pam, any questions? My

first comment. Hi. It is very exciting. Thank you so much, and thank you to the two of you, Kim and Jason, because you just answered most of the questions that I had. I just want to say, so that the public can hear, some of the things that I really liked in reading this proposal that their motto of Paragon is be the Sherpa. And I just find that a beautiful motto. And then they explained the three parts of what that means. So I appreciate that. They're also, their focus on sustainability, on safety and on understanding how to design school spaces to meet the needs of different learning styles. So they kind of delineated each of those. I also like, and this is kind of, Kim, what you were saying, that they have in their proposal seven community forums planned, which I think is beautiful and is a wonderful way to engage our community, and numerous subcommittees as well. My one question I think that is left, just to make sure, is so on page 49 of this, I don't know if we need it, They have like a base plan and an extended plan. And I'm just wondering when is that chosen? Is that included in this at all? Page 49 at the bottom of that page. Under potential master planning scopes of work. 45, 49 on 9. I

think you probably got the long version. I got separated versions. So our paging is off.

Okay. Here. It's like Or

does

it maybe it doesn't matter right now

I Think the feedback if I remember correctly from the group is that you know was to pursue the broader plan John can check me on that if I'm wrong, but Some of these. I know what you're talking about though.

Some of these items can certainly be evaluated and answered or added if we need to do so. I think as we get into the project and understand it more fully as we want to move forward and depending on the community expectations of us we can certainly add some of these.

Thank you. I'm done.

Leo.

I also appreciate your filling us in on the process that looks really robust and good process that brought us to selecting this. We obviously need to go through a facilities planning process we've been talking about it. I don't. I will highlight the community engagement piece which you also highlighted which I think is very important here. And I don't have a question for you.

Thank you. So if there's no further questions, actually, Chris, would you read the motion, please?

I motion that we approve an agreement with Paragon Architecture for Facility Master Planning and Community Engagement for a not to exceed fee of $264,000 as presented.

Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Motion passes. And now on to 6.02, the Merrimack Elementary renovations please.

Merrimack Elementary has reaching capacity on its enrollment and We find ourselves in a position where there are no spare classrooms for grade level instruction In the event we gain more students last year. We gained enough students that we had to add a fifth grade last minute That teacher was under one-year contract that group of students is now moving to the middle school and but we find ourselves this year needing in addition a fourth section of first grade and we are running under the potential of needing a class at fourth or fifth and at kindergarten, depending on how enrollment materializes as the summer progresses. Due to those needs, we have had some discussions for a while with the building principal on solutions. We resolved on reconfiguring parts of the building so that Spaces that are currently office spaces could be reconfigured into classroom spaces and that will require us to relocate potentially relocate offices but in the event the student population or enrollment materializes we would have ready rooms available for their classroom instruction. So we solicited bids on that classroom work and we have that bids in front of you tonight. Excuse my voice. Classroom bids were $268,000 and some change to make those modifications. And we've started looking at how to permanently relocate offices. And we took a bid on reconfiguring the stage space into two levels of offices. And we have that bid as well. That work would not be done this summer. It would be projected out for summer 2025. Our recommendation to you tonight is that we recommend that you construct the classroom spaces and we have time in which to deliberate further about the office spaces. And we'll we'll figure that out as we go into the start of the school year but we can have some ongoing discussions and it can also be part of our facilities master planning is how we fully resolve that. but my recommendation to you is, and I've got actually two motions here before you, one to do both, but a recommendation is certainly we need to consider doing the classroom renovations. for next summer we've looked at alternatives and Some of you have had some discussions about that I believe We've looked at modular buildings. The cost of that is significant. We've looked at extra TAS which may be necessary anyway and so we've evaluated those alternatives and In my opinion, building these classrooms would be the most cost-effective and best solution in the interest of student learning.

And I think to add to that, when we look at our district-wide needs, we have two urgent needs right now. One is the Merrimack construction project that we're discussing right now in terms of classrooms, and the other need is a captain with lighting. Knowing that we're just about to embark in the long range facilities plan, we felt that with the lighting at Captain, we can fold that in there. However, because of time being such an essence with Merrimack and us, the enrollment fluctuating between now and August and the construction, we just felt that this recommendation needed to happen at this time in terms of just classroom space and student learning. And hence, we brought this forward to you today for consideration.

Thank you. Mohini, I apologize. I didn't call on you last time. Do you have any questions about the Merrimack construction? Okay. And we'll come back to you for an update later too. Jason.

Well, first just a comment that, you know, the need of Merrimack, you know, I bring my personal experience into this, but Merrimack is out of room, you know, and in the Merrimack community, this is the number one thing I hear about. I don't know if Leo feels the same way as a fellow Merrimack dad, but that's – you know, this is a big issue within the Merrimack community. And I'm glad that we're focusing really on the need, right, as opposed to, you know, like things that are urgent but maybe not necessary. So I appreciate that. I guess just a couple questions. One is – and this is purely just like educate me. So we do this in the summer, right, the reduced scope of work. How does that get folded into the long-range facilities plan, or does it at all? Like is that taken into consideration at all?

We'll document it as a project that's being modified to the building, and that will certainly set the stage for future discussions about that building. But we're bringing it forward purely because of the enrollment potentials

and the lack of capacity. I know the number has been rising. Is there anything that tells us that that number is going to fall within the next three years, call it?

That's

somewhat of an unfair question. Do you have any projections either way, I guess?

My crystal ball is as cloudy as anybody else's. But that particular attendance area has a section of rental properties, and I think we can see attendance rise and fall in that area that can make these numbers rise and fall. So can it fall? Yeah, it can fall. But we can take these spaces, if they're not used as classrooms, we can... use portable dividers and divide them into office spaces we can make use of the space either way our biggest challenge is if we need grade level classrooms we have none right and uh so that's why the proposal was before us yeah but yeah enrollment at that at that building rise or fall yeah okay absolutely um and they're you know as a building it can rise and fall Specific even if it falls specific grade levels could have problems. OK.

All right. OK. That's great. Those are my questions. Thanks.

Kim. Yeah. Can you tell me what the student current student teacher ratio is in fourth and fifth grade and kindergarten which is where there may be a need is what I heard.

So fourth grade right now, the average class size is about 21 students. 21.67 is what it ended up being. And then fifth grade, it's 23.

And our guidelines are 21? Our

guidelines are 18 for kindergarten and first and 20 for the other grades.

Okay, so if you added another classroom, how would those ratios fall?

So if we added a fourth section to that, it would probably go down to about 16? And then we'd be way under

our ratios. Yeah. I mean, I guess personally, I understand the need for once you get to a certain critical mass of students for adding a classroom. but three classrooms? I mean, if your ratios go down to 16 to one, could the fourth and fifth grade classrooms be combined the same way that we do seven and eight in the middle school in some cases? I mean, have we really looked at other ways? I guess what I'm concerned about is we go through this long range facilities plan If there's really need for three more classrooms at this school, should we be looking at do we need a fifth grade center somewhere the same way that LeDoux has done that? And then by doing this, is that we spent $1 million here. Does that preclude our ability to, well, we wish we hadn't spent this money so early so that we could spend it to be more thoughtful about the district as a whole? The other thing I'll add is based on what we saw or what we heard during the last meeting that we had, that despite the fact that this is our one elementary school where we seem to have reached capacity it's also our highest performing elementary school so I don't think that it is at least by you know as we look at their results it's having a detrimental impact on the learning environment now that's gonna change if you get to 30 students in a class but you know We're about to reach capacity in the event that we gain students. I mean, is there anything to indicate that we're going to gain students? What's the likelihood of us gaining students in fourth and fifth grade? Kindergarten is one thing because families might move in. people with retirees moving out and we're kind of in peak real estate season now until I would say, let's call it middle of July. But very few people kind of move in the fourth and fifth grade. That's not a typical time to pull kids out of school and move them unless there's an issue at a school somewhere else or unless you happen to be relocated for work. And then I think we're talking about, you know, a handful of students. So I guess that's my wondering. Given where we are, we should have some guidelines based on the song rights facilities plan hopefully by the end of January of next year. We do this construction. It's completed in August. Are we going to wish that we had waited to do something? And could we have waited to do something if we could be creative for one more year? And then this office space, where would it go? Would stage disappear if you build it? How does the community feel about your stage disappearing at the elementary school? Have you guys talked about that at the PTO level?

I talked to Patrick Fisher about it. He said he did mention it at a PTO meeting, but maybe not in much detail. Right now they do use the stage for storage. So they don't utilize the stage space, according to Patrick.

I did hold back on this because I know it came out of the scope, the scope that you're proposing tonight. But I don't and I fully believe that, you know, Dr. Fisher said what he said he said. everyone in the community fully realizes it um and you know yes it is used for storage uh with the exception of the winter sing-along uh which is an annual tradition uh but i don't you know like if we're gonna if we're really talking about doing this with the office space and um you know, dealing with the stage or something else that might be considered to be, you know, critical to the culture of the school. At that point, I think we ought at least like, you probably need to share like floor plans. Like, hey, this is exactly what's going to happen with the school, right? So I get, I'm with you on the classroom space because I get the urgency there. You know, if we're going to, if that forces our hand to do everything else, I'd rather just at least like give some breathing room to this and make sure everyone knows about it I guess that's you know. But again I do appreciate the work working on this issue because it's it is critical.

DIRECTOR HAMPSON- Gary any questions.

So we've done these enrollment projection studies or had them done over the years. I don't remember whether they are specific to. the different elementary attendance areas and I don't know how reliable the information would be if they were. But is there anything in any of those studies that suggests that investing in one elementary in a way that is Bit more permanent versus the others is the right thing to do. I don't know whether that That information or that study of it is helpful here. I think I think this is true in any enrollment projection study I've ever seen. They've always been downward trends in the long term. I don't remember whether there's peaks or valleys at the individual schools and that, but I don't know if that data or there is data like that that's helpful or that you can share.

You know, in the St. Louis metro region, birth rates are down and overall enrollment trends are sliding downward region-wide. Within the region, though, there is migration and there are school districts that have rising enrollment because of that, even though overall it's down. Lindbergh attracted, they sunk to a low number, they attracted a bunch of people back in. and now they're buying back schools and rebuilding them. That same phenomena can happen in our own district where we're seeing Captain sliding and Merrimack rising, but overall as our district's kind of stable at the moment. We have other trends that are going on with VIC enrollment declining, but tuition enrollment rising. So there's a variety of moving pieces to this puzzle. In the Merrimack attendance boundaries in particular we have seen it been rising for the last two or three years and last year fifth grade rose enough that we had to add a fourth section in that building. So it a variety of things are happening there and I really think it's primarily a migration of people that rent property. And it's that rental clientele that are bringing arriving with students that are causing fluctuations at that building.

Yeah, so I understand the general fluctuations district to district. But we have done studies. We have done enrollment studies. And I mean, this is, I don't know, year seven or whatever for me. So I don't remember what year. But we have had presentations here in this room, some people more skeptical of them than others, about enrollment studies for Clayton School District. So I don't like have we have we gone out and I don't know how often those things have to be refreshed but you know to be effective. But have we looked at that have we factored that in and again I just don't remember how specific it was whether it was just district as a whole or different catchment areas.

The facilities master plan includes a demographic study which will reanalyze that

but have we looked at the ones that we did before

yes and Their projections and actual results always vary from that so we're there is variance from that and until it you know, it's one of those things until it happens that hasn't happened and We you know, it'll say It'll protect a trend but then Migration patterns are different and the results are different as well not not mature not so drastically that That it causes us to build a new school or close a school But it brings it to the point of having add a section or not or take a section back. I when we actually experience it like we did last year.

So how did we add a section? Where was it added?

A fifth grade classroom was added and we took a space that was not being used as a classroom is used for general purposes I think and we made a classroom out of it.

It was a gifted classroom and it was a smaller space we converted that into the classroom.

I mean if you have

So this year this year that our next year that fifth grade group will move on to middle school and we won't need that classroom the reserve Returned the three classes in fifth grade But our group that's moving from kindergarten to first. We're gonna end up adding a fourth section there

Could they not use the space at the fifth grade

Yes, that's that is what will happen and at that point every classroom in the building is under use It's fully assigned out for grade levels and specials. So the point is is that We have a risk at kindergarten. We have a risk it fourth grade and fifth grade of needing to add sections That may or may not happen, but if it happens and we're not ready. I That's our challenge.

DIRECTOR DEWOLF. So just getting back to this enrollment study piece like I just I'm just not hearing where the work that we've paid to have done in the past has filtered into this decision process and maybe it has and I'm missing it but I'm not hearing that. So if it hasn't because it's outdated or it's not relevant I understand that but. I don't know the answer to that yet. And of course, you can, I'm telegraphing this because you know what my next question is. But has it been, has that information, has that data that we paid for affected the process here?

We have reviewed that data and we've also utilized our current, every year we produce new data as far as how students migrate grade to grade and evaluate that. And that's the data that we're relying on at the moment. That's the data that included in a memo earlier this week explaining that. That's the day that we're relying currently. Sure. And there's a variance between that data and the older data.

So I'm going to put a pin in this because I think that kind of suggests that these long-term enrollment studies might not actually be that helpful. But when we've paid for them and we've done them, I want to make sure that we are at least factoring in what we have from that. So OK so then it wasn't all that long ago that we had kind of a bubble that moved through Glen Ridge. Some of you will remember this because you experienced it as parents and so so that so you know bubbles are in student population not necessarily things that you can explain all the time or predict when they'll happen again or how long they'll persist. How do we know we're not in a bubble.

Well just like first grade for next year is a bubble at Merrimack. We know that's a bubble and it will progress through the system at that school unless there's migration out. But there could also be migration in that increases that bubble. We know we have a bubble in that grade level and we know we are close to having a bubble in a couple other grade levels.

So do we. So what's what's the best way. Let's just assume it's a bubble and not a long term enrollment growth at that school. What's the most efficient way to effectively not deal with that. Not right term but you know how do we how do we respond to the bubble if it's a bubble verse a long term trend.

My analysis on this was basically relying on policy and procedure that we've established, both for our class size standards as well as the standard for when we add TAs and the standard where we start adding classrooms. So looking at those standards and looking at our current data, that's what's bringing this recommendation forward. Now is it the only solution. No we can. Our standards are better than say state standards but we could adjust our standards and allow larger class sizes although our classrooms are typically smaller in square footage than many classrooms so they can feel cramped but we could certainly adjust our standards. So just using the standards we have is what's creating the bubble effect. Adjusting the standards could make the bubble go away. I'm not going to be a proponent of that. I'm not gonna be the one that suggests that.

Okay, go ahead.

I have some similar questions. And I will say I don't think the community would be happy with larger class sizes either. Because I think that's one of the things that our families and community values about our schools is the small class sizes. The enrollment projections that you're using now for the first grade next year or the fourth or fifth grade next year, when was that completed? When did you get those numbers?

We started working with these numbers this past fall, and we work with them continuously. So as we have new data on a day-to-day basis almost, we adjust those numbers based on people coming forward and wanting to enroll.

OK. And I remember years ago hearing here on the board that Because we, and I'm just curious if this is still the case, that we tend, and I don't know if this was just specific to Glenridge, maybe I was hearing as a parent or all of our schools, that we tend to also get a lot of late enrollments like in August from a WashU influence of professors or people coming for fellowships and residency or whatever, and they typically don't know until late. Have we seen that in recent years where it's too late to add a classroom kind of? In August we get... sizable additional enrollments?

There are late enrollments, but I don't think they've been material enough to affect those

decisions. Well, years ago, I think for a while that was affecting some numbers at Glenridge that they couldn't predict. So I just, for full transparency, when I first saw this proposal and we got it last week, I had very similar thoughts to what Kim shared is we're about to embark on this long range facilities plan And it just seems kind of contradictory to that to then ask to pay for a construction project when we haven't done a full analysis of our facilities. However in sitting on it more and thinking about it more I separated in my head long range future planning from immediate need which this appears to be. And when I try to think about what is best for our students I want to, although of course as a board we need to be fiscally responsible and pay attention to the amount of money we need for these classrooms. I also think we need to trust you and Nisha and Patrick Fisher about what, how are we best going to serve students at Merrimack? And if you all agree that the best way to serve and teach our students at Merrimac is by adding additional classrooms, I'm gonna trust that recommendation. I would... I would support only voting on the motion for the classrooms because we're not gonna do the offices for a while anyway and because of some of the reasons Jason said that we might need more information, more input and feedback from Patrick and that community. So that would be my support for the motion and I would support it based on my rethinking of the project so.

This is really about being prepared for a condition that may develop over the summer, or between now and the start of school. It's about being prepared.

And I think also because some of the need you've mentioned is in lower grades, kindergarten and first grade. To me then, that is a long range. We're not building classrooms for one year. Those kids will continue on for four or five years through Merrimack, and those grades I would assume, presumably, would need the four-classers.

Today, there is not a need

for them. Today,

but... It's not a need today. Right, you're right about that. Absolutely, it's not a need for today. But there's uncertainty about the upcoming year which has that building nervous and which our numbers support that we want to be prepared for.

And I would also... argue that when we talk about teacher-student ratios, there's so many factors that go into making, helping teachers effectively manage classrooms, right? And it's not just academics. There's a lot of behavioral issues, social-emotional issues, and larger numbers means, you know, more to handle, and also in smaller physical spaces, which you said our classrooms are small. So I'm thinking about all of that also. So it I appreciate it. It's a lot to think about. I want to be fiscally responsible, but I also want to trust what Patrick Fisher and what Dr. Patel think is best for our students right now, or next year, I should say. Thank you.

This is a really tough call, and I really want you all to know that I really appreciate that. And I too have spent a great deal of time thinking about this in all the different aspects because you're right, it's perceived. So that's a major factor. It doesn't, it's not small. The way that I've decided to think about that perceived need is to be like the Boys and Girls Scouts and be prepared. I think the truth is, I'd rather us be prepared and use the funding that we know right now this is a doable thing for our district. This is not going to hurt our budget in the immediacy or in my understanding in the long term. And so to me, creating these spaces for these teachers to be able to really effectively work with their students and do all the things that Stacey said, which is not just academic. And there's all these other really important things that need to happen in a classroom. And I know from experience my kids had to use the gifted classroom at Glen Ridge when it had to be converted to a classroom. And I remember talking to the teacher, and she'd made the best of it, but it's a hard year for those students and certainly for that teacher. They try to be creative, and guess what? Our teachers did a great job. But if we can A, be prepared, and then B, know that if we don't continue to have this need, then that space will be used for something extremely important as well. I have no doubt that Dr. Fisher and you know our admin would really be able to use that space in a very effective educational manner even if it didn't have to be its own individual classroom. So that's why in the end I feel like the expenditure is really worthwhile because it's not going to be sitting empty In fact, Glenridge used to have a room that was called their makerspace room. And I know how much we want to think about being innovative and allowing our teachers. I was just thinking, man, what if our teachers, the Merrimack community, and the students all came together to decide what to do with these extra rooms if we had them? You know, there's just so many creative ways that we can allow this space to be utilized, even if it doesn't have to be utilized as a classroom. And lastly, I'll say that I'm also very... I'm thankful, John, that you did look at our policy and that you were very clear that that was the reason why you are looking at this so seriously. I believe in that policy very, very, very much. And I would love to see our numbers go to 16. I understand that that's not potentially possible anytime soon, given the money that it would cost to see all of our classrooms be at 16, but from everything that I know about from a teacher point of view, from watching my student, my own children, and knowing about education in general, the smaller the class size, the better. So I'm willing to say that I'm willing to pay the money to see that happen in any way that we can. 20 for me is the max, and I don't want to see it go any further, and I wouldn't support. I don't think the community would support that either. So that's where I'm at. I don't think I have any questions, but thank you for listening.

Pam. Hi. Hi. Okay, I just want to point out a few things. I seem to have this chart. I don't know who has this. Okay, this is very helpful. So thank you, I think, Dr. Patel or John for sending this to us. I want to say that the plan will offer or create three new classrooms, correct?

Correct.

According to these numbers in this chart, we need four new classrooms or five depending if we're counting that 19th one that's not in the original, the top chart. So even constructing these three classrooms is not, it is not meeting the need that this chart is saying we need.

Potentially. That's what Kim was saying, perceived.

Yes. Based on our estimates for next year. Okay, so I just want to make sure I'm getting this right, that even the proposed plan still leaves us at least one classroom short if these numbers

persist. If these numbers materialize, those would be accurate numbers. The one that's the most, the projection on here that's the least tied down is the kindergarten number. But the rest are all pretty solid numbers. And so...

Okay, so I just want to like point that out That this still is not giving us what we're saying. We need which is four classrooms We may need using these numbers, okay The next part is that in looking at this again based on the three classrooms per session per grade versus the four and then the policies or the standards that our district has set of 18 for kindergarten and first and then 20 above that Versus adding a TA versus adding a new section Only in these projections only first grade next year Meets the criteria. I guess you could maybe argue that kindergarten would meet that criteria for adding another section and and that some of them meet the criteria for adding a TA? That's

correct.

So is that, and you know I was just saying like we're saying we may need four more classrooms but maybe and then we would be creating three that maybe one of them would have a TA like that would be an option? Correct. Okay. Correct. Thank you. I had... Okay. Oh, I mean, the thing is, is like the TA. If we were to hire one TA or three TAs, what is the cost of a TA compared to the $268,000 for the construction?

Tony? What's the average salary right now for TAs?

Okay, I just wanna note that.

But you need a teacher to have a classroom.

Yeah. Right.

Right, yeah.

So I just wanna note, that hiring three added to the teacher, the ratio. So I just want to put that out there, that if we were to hire, according to this chart, three TAs, that would be 120-ish, which is less than half of the proposed budget.

So right now, we already have a TA assigned to the kindergarten, current kinder, which all elementaries have a TA at the kindergarten level. And then we already have a TAs that we have assigned to third 4th and 5th grade.

Which on this budget

is, I mean on this chart is 4th, 5th? It's, yeah, on the top chart it would be 3rd, 4th, and 5th as a TA.

Okay.

Because Merrimack already had three TAs there. So we just reassigned them to the

higher. Okay. So... If we were to not move forward with construction, I just wanna make sure I'm understanding the math here. If we're not moving forward with the construction, is the plan here that we would hire how many TAs would we need?

If we do not move forward with the construction we already have a TA assigned to the third, fourth and fifth grade. So we could hire another TA

We would probably be in first grade. It

would be in first grade, but you know, I don't know how if it would solve the issue of having what you're saying in lieu of adding a section. That's what

you're saying, correct? I'm saying in lieu of having a section, it sounds like what you're saying is we would only need to hire one additional TA at approximately $40,000. And

just to be clear, if we added a section, we'd be hiring a teacher. which is an additional cost as well. That's not factored in there.

Yes. The option number three on this, talking about the modular units, I know you said that was quite costly. Do we have an estimate of that cost? If this is... Okay, I'm just going to kind of take us back to the idea that in a year we will have... long-range facilities master plan that if we do this as a temporary measure how much does that cost

the cost could vary but based on our research of that and talking with ladue who recently considered adding that the cost of a two classroom modular was as much as building these classrooms okay

Good to know. I had a question and I've lost it. OK, so then what's also not on this budget for the construction is also the faculty, however many more teachers we would have to hire. Correct. I'm going to finish with that for now. Thank you.

The cost of this is what it is. The idea here was not about necessarily saving dollars, it was about being prepared for what if comes. So I wasn't looking for the lowest cost solution, I was looking for the one that made us most prepared.

The right solution, I gotcha. So in this there's then one, if we move forward with this, there's one year where office staff does not, oh I know what they're two things, that office staff is going to, what is the plan, double up in offices? Let's

just say we build three of these classrooms and we only use one. The other two will be used for offices. If we get to two or three, we're going to have to find office space. And that's either going to be moving them into storage spaces, which are not necessarily ideal because of the HVAC issues or electric and technology, or if all three of them are used, we're bound to almost have to get a modular office unit to provide office space.

Is that less expensive than modular classroom space?

Because we would bring in a smaller one and I think we could avoid having to have a restroom in it. Which saves a lot on the site cost.

Okay, thank you so much.

When does this, when do you need to have a decision on this in order for the construction to start on time?

The sooner the better what I wrote in the memo was that it'd be nice to have decision when the next two weeks Which is either this meeting or the next meeting?

One general reaction I have to this is that there's a lot of information that's been brought out here That's been talked about that doesn't appear in the record in the agenda record of our meeting and it I do like it when the reasons we made a decision follow and read it, and you can see why we did what we did. And I don't think that follows real well here. I don't think there's enough in the agenda record to explain why we're doing what we did. So that would be one reason to just potentially look at kicking the can two weeks, seeing what it says, adding more to the record. Let me say some good things about this. I appreciate that we looked at, I mean, it seems like building those classrooms is a relatively modest cost to add those classrooms, just the classrooms. The thing about it is we're altering a building and for a one year need really, because at the end of the facilities plan we could have a better idea what we're going to do as a more permanent solution. And so I'm concerned that we're making changes to a building and we're left with a situation where we don't like what we have at the end of it. The office space being lost is a concern in that regard. So just talk to me a little bit about how that was thought about in this process.

First I would say, I don't view this as a one-year solution. I review it as a longer term solution than that. The one space we're enlarging is one that has already been shrunken by being divided. The upstairs spaces, that's in the lower level, the upstairs spaces there's large offices and I think they were made into large office spaces. I wasn't part of that decision, it's been some years ago, but I think just from looking at it, due to the odd sizes of them, that it was just, this could have been a classroom space, but we just carved them up into some large irregular sized offices. So I view this as a more longer term solution. in that if we do a facilities master plan and it suggests that we need to add to the building, such as build onto the structure, that's going to be a multi-year process of design and construction and completion. So at a minimum I would expect these classrooms to be in effect for at least three years. And that's just the classroom component But the need is hard to predict the need could be there year after year or it could disappear as well I mean, it's this particular building and tenants area is showing some right, you know some fluctuations that are hard to nail down Precisely. I'm just viewing this as how do we be prepared? and I think you were to talk to mr. Fisher over there and his building and they would articulate a great amount of concern about not being prepared because we're all looking at these standards that have been board set. I know this board may not have set them, but they've been set and established in board policy. And when we look at them, we try to comply with them because this is the standard we have for this district. Again, we can change these standards. I don't recommend that. It changes the dynamics of this community. But just because these are the standards, these are the ones we're trying to follow closely. And I don't wanna be the one that falls off of them.

We've talked about it's a potential need. Do we have any assessment, and I understand that crystal balls are cloudy, about the probability that that need materializes?

Well, let's take the kindergarten. It's 65. It's one child away from, you know, it's 21.2 students per class. One more child puts it at the 22 standard. I mean, that's how close we are. So I can't predict whether one more child shows up or not. But we're just getting close on these numbers. And that appears in more than one grade like that. So the probability is really hard for me to assess. But one child doesn't seem very far off. One child seems probable to me.

So I'll

say this

I did talk about this a fair bit over the past few months, and that always comes up when you mention this issue. It just does. That's what members of the community immediately, when you mention this issues, ask that question. And that doesn't mean that that's what we do, but it does mean to me that it needs to be thoughtfully considered. And that's part of where I began here, which is I think there's a lot of questions, many of which have been answered since we first saw this item. But maybe not all of them. And maybe it would be a good idea to try to answer those questions in writing in a way that appears in the public record It

would be my recommendation that if we're going to modify attendance boundaries that we have a significant public engagement process for I

understand Well, and so that brings me to a set of questions about I understand that the enrollment projections Time and they evolved and we got to a place where we felt more certain about it relatively recently. That's part of this story But it has also been known for a while that Merrimack is pretty full and so It seems to me some branches of this decision tree are in our past In other words, we got to a where this may we may be kind of Forced into This option or some other options that we don't love And I don't know, I don't know if that's a question it's a comment I guess

The Situation that developed last year developed later in the year We were in the summer really when we just made the decision that we needed to add a classroom and we took a classroom we didn't have a door at lack some other things and we were able to make those changes in short order to make that additional classroom happen. Since then, we've been very mindful about monitoring it and having ongoing conversations with the principal and monitoring this data and really led us to the point of thinking we need to be more prepared. That's why we're having this conversation earlier in the year. The timelines for this are going to be longer this time because the construction that would be required is

more

significant.

Does the classroom construction largely box us in to doing the office work? Maybe we could do it a little differently than it is in this proposal, but we're pretty well boxed into doing some work to expand the offices because we're getting rid of some and we'll need new ones, right?

If if we don't need any of these classrooms they will continue to be used as offices and we will use portable dividers to establish those offices but the classrooms will be sitting ready.

Robin, I know what Robin's thinking. So if we left things as is and we hire The teaching assistants can

also, I mean, we use the hallways and captains bring smaller groups outside, like we talked about last week.

Yeah, we're talking about, okay, so I'll do that one. whether it's this year or next year.

And I think there's a lot of factors that go into that depending on the makeup of the kids in that class. Behavior issues, there might be kids that have a para, there might be some SSD teachers that are assigned to some of those kids. It might be more crowded than just simply two extra kids and a TA. There's a lot of... Again, play devil's advocate. We just don't know, but there are definitely a lot of factors like that to be considered when we are constrained in tiny spaces that I think would definitely impact their learning experience.

But there is literature out there, and I don't know what it is, on at what number of student-to-teacher ratio at different grade levels does it impact learning?

Yeah,

DESE

has a standard, actually.

So then...

Ours are just lower, though. Ours

are lower. That's our

standard. Ours are low. Yeah,

I see that. But I think that that gets to Jason's question. But yes, you're

correct. There are other standards that are out there.

So I'm going to suggest or maybe ask the board if there's more information that we are wanting that would help us make a decision that we table this and vote at the next meeting, which you said would still be within our timeline. I don't know if there's more information, like what we want, but if there is more information, some of the questions we're asking that we could get within the next two weeks and table this vote to our next meeting, if we think that would be beneficial, we can do that.

that's out there that talks about. Again, I want to just say that, you know, I know that there are studies that say X, Y, or Z, but I think our values are expressed in this policy quite well. So, you know, but we also want to look at the data, so I appreciate that you said that. I want to also just ask one question. In looking at, I have that hesitancy too. It's like we're about to do this facilities plan. So is this going to be, oh, well, we didn't need it there. We need it over here sort of thing. It's a very large question mark. And it does make me wonder whether doing this right now is the right thing instead of trying to do something more temporary. and then therefore knowing down the road. My thought is what you said about it being three years potentially, that makes me feel like it is worthwhile doing it given the fact that these classrooms would be folded into what we have existing And then, therefore, it would change our long-term plan accordingly. Maybe we wouldn't need XYZ, which we would have needed. So it can go both ways. This could actually be something we're doing now in the immediate need that actually ends up something we would have done. And, again, we can't predict that. But I'll go back to saying small class sizes is a value of – least the board that came up with this policy and it certainly is still a value of mine and i believe it's reflective of the values of the community and then i'll also say i very much appreciate for the teachers sake having flex space if these don't need to be classrooms i just again that is to me our value as well is to be um have the ability to be uh innovative and allow teaching to happen in ways that we aren't currently doing, but would like to. So to me, that's where I'm at.

Just can I make the observation? It takes three years or several years to do a large, you know, expand the roof line type add-on. If a year from now we decide that this is the right thing, it won't take three years because we can do this in the summer. We can do this in a summer. So that's why I think of it as a one-year thing because the planning is going to take us a year. I like that the spaces as realigned could still be used as offices, and that flex is interesting. Oh, I have one more question. We talked about there's the one space that is the Excel space that's currently being used as a classroom. What's the next thing? If we decided we want a section off, what would be the next thing that you would add as a space? Has that been talked about? We don't wanna mess with class sizes. We do wanna do a section, but we wanna do it in the existing facility. For example, one of the specials classrooms, is that a possibility? Talk about that a little bit.

So what the one of the options we discussed was if because currently there are no more spaces that you can convert into a classroom, but could it be where an Elective or specials is traveling from class to class Again not ideal, but is that something we could explore

and my reaction to that is I know that some local schools do do that. Oh, yeah. And that depending on which special it is, it can work better. Yeah. Spanish maybe is better than art for that example. PE seems difficult.

Can I say

something? Oh, if we table, if you're hiring teachers, we're kind of late for hiring teachers. Is the two weeks, is time of the essence on that for hiring teachers? I don't want to argue against the tabling because I actually like that idea, but I do want to ask the question.

And are we just late in general for hiring teachers?

We are overall, but this wouldn't impact us because we're not talking about adding a staff a teacher section as of right now. Right now we've got the TAs, we're interviewing I believe, Tony, we're in the process of interviewing for one teacher, two at Merrimack, so we're already in the middle of the process for that.

I think my reaction is I would like to see it tabled and much of the information that we've already been given informally incorporated into a memo and make an effort to think about some of the questions that people might have so that when people read it and then they see our vote, it all makes sense. Because I don't think it did when it started out. That's my reaction.

Mohini, do you have any questions?

Well, I'd just like to echo the comment about the importance of small classrooms. Because especially, I've been in discussions not with Merrimack, but with Captain and such. And the kids really like having that close bond with their teachers. And when they don't feel like they have that, that's where the stressor really lies. So I think it really just depends on the need. But having those small classrooms are just really important for the students. So it's just something that should still be valued in this process.

Thank you, I appreciate that perspective. That's a really great point.

Yeah. So I raised the idea of or the question of there is literature that says the appropriate class size and then I got the comment that ours are lower here in Clayton. So I'm looking at the numbers that some board established in Clayton and looking at those exact numbers There's one classroom extra that we need, it seems, the top, the kinder and yellow. And three that need TAs, which it seems like we already have three, I think, unless I forgot, but we already have three TAs. Four. Four. So this is showing, I mean, just using our policy in Clayton, there's only two, there's only one new classroom that we need. I don't wanna say only, because that's still a classroom. But looking at these numbers and using our numbers, I think that's important just to clarify here. And I also hear you saying that if we make three classrooms and we only use one, we can still use the other two. So I hear you in saying that space won't go unused.

Can I say on the class? First of all, low class sizes, absolutely very important value. For a long time, this district didn't have any policy on that. I happen to know it was just a value that the board aspired to, and this policy was drafted for some reasons that had nothing to do with that value. I'll just tell you that if we can talk about it later. It had to do with a situation where there might have been a large influx of students. But anyway.

So we need to probably, Chris needs to maybe make a motion to table the

vote. Before you make the motion, could you just give me some more clarity on what you would like for the next time so we are fully prepared? I recognize you already said some of the information we gave you via email to make sure that that's incorporated. Publicly, any other study for impact on student learning? Class size?

Yeah, I like that. Thank you.

Since it's been brought up, we should say something about realigning the elementary schools. Maybe it's just at this point we don't have time to do it. But since we've discussed it at the table, I think it should be addressed.

So bring some information about that or?

Thinking about why thinking about why that's not the right we're exploring at this point.

And then is it as a question my first day here is it appropriate in these cost estimates to include how what the cost would be for additional teachers?

And I think some of those some of the cost associated with modular classrooms that John looked into some of those other options.

Yeah, it should be like a scenario A, a scenario B. If we add classrooms, add teachers, this is the cost. If we're adding TAs, this is the costs. Right,

that would be great.

Okay. It might be good to hear from Patrick at the next meeting before we vote. I thought that too. Because we're kind of getting information via Patrick through

Maybe he could give us a statement or if he doesn't want to come.

He has firsthand knowledge of how they actually in real life dealt with the scenario last year when you actually had a large enrollment of students and converted to class and what were the challenges with that. Yeah, that would be great.

Thank you. Okay, Chris, would you read a... Do we need to motion, Gary, to amend the agenda first and then motion to table the motion? Okay, that's

true. Right.

So do we not even need to vote on tabling it? Because we didn't even have a motion. OK. OK. OK, and we are moving on to 6.03, re-approval of policy BBFA, board member conflict of interest policy. Heike, is this a first reading? Is this a policy that goes through two readings? Okay, I didn't think so because you didn't write that, but I wanted to make

sure.

Yeah, I just didn't know if there was, okay.

Right.

Yeah, okay.

Would you read the motion please, Chris? I motion to approve the re-adoption of policy BBFA board member conflict of interest, and financial disclosure. Second.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Aye. Motion passes. Okay, moving on to consent agenda, items 7.02 through 7.09. Chris, would you read a motion please? Does anyone have any questions? We'll make the motion first and then we'll ask. Oh, we do? Don't we? With a consent. We make the motion first, and then we ask the questions on the consent, right?

Yeah. We do? OK. Sorry about that. That's OK. We're all learning. Yes. I motion to approve consent agenda item 7.02 through 7.09. Second.

Does anyone have any questions about any consent agenda items? I have a

quick question. Pam? 702 and 703 about the social work and counseling curriculum. I just want to know, is there a cost to them? I didn't see one, and I didn't hear it last week. I didn't think so. I just wanted

to know.

Perfect. Thank

you.

And just, I'm sure Leo and Pam realize this, but we received those reports last week. at the last meeting. I'm sure you heard

that. That's what I wanted to say, is that these are items that both Pam and I heard presented at the last meeting, and so I think they're perfectly appropriate for the consent agenda.

Any other questions on any other consent agenda items? Okay, all those in favor? Aye. Okay, motion passes. We're moving on to... board committees and communication, community reports. And I, this is, I guess not actually in the agenda but I thought would fit here because of the unusual way we had our agenda tonight. I'd like Mohini if you have a presentation, if you had anything to say tonight or not. Okay, okay great. I just wanted to give you the opportunity to report out. Okay. Chris, would you like to tell everyone about our Legislative Advocacy Day yesterday in Jeff City? Yes, thank you.

Amy, myself and Stacy went to Jefferson City yesterday, spent a whole day there with a very large number of other board members from all around the state. and got to hear some great keynote speakers. The incoming commissioner of education was there. Nisha, you said you were excited about her. Do I remember you saying that?

Carla. Carla, thank you. I said yes. I said we have a new commissioner. Yeah. It'll, yes.

Yes, and she seems, yeah, I'm just recalling when I saw her. It seems like a qualified opinion, Madam Superintendent. I

look forward to her leadership.

That's wonderful. I do too. I will tell you, I look forward to it because I actually saw her speak. That's what I'm mentioning is that, um, yeah, she was there. She had, um, everyone there of course is extremely passionate about public education. And so it's nice to be around that energy. because here we are feeling the same way. It's nice to know how many other hundreds of us there are, really passionate and wanting to make sure that the students in all of Missouri get the education they deserve. So anyway, we had some nice time with just board members and then we went to talk to legislators We went to the three for our district. We talked to Joe Adams, we talked to Ian Mackey, and we talked to Sarah Onsicker. All of them were very much aligned with our thinking for SB 727. The three of us really focused made sure to ask a lot of good questions about their thinking, but in the end, their thinking was similar to ours. And it was just a nice way to make sure that we have face time with the folks that are our representatives because I would like for us to continue to be an active part of letting them hear our thoughts, asking the questions that we have, so that we can be part of this democratic process that we have set up here. And so, yeah, if you have any questions, let me know. But I feel enthusiastic about the continued advocacy that this board, this community, et cetera, can do on this important issue. because it is gonna continue to be every year. We're just in the beginning of what we're gonna have to continue to be aware of and having an understanding of, and then potentially a way of, we should, deciding sort of what would be best for our students given how that particular policy would affect our students as a district, so. If there's any other questions, that's otherwise, did I miss anything?

I was just going to add that when you meet school board members from rural schools and districts that have 57 students, their concerns are very different than ours. But I think it's incumbent upon us when we look at these bills to really consider how they affect public schools across the region and state, not just Clayton. And that was what was a big Part of my learning yesterday is in talking to the legislators, really hearing about how it affects those really, you know, schools that are different and districts that are different from ours. Joe Adams, just as a side note, his wife volunteers with Oasis at Merrimack, and he said she loves it. His district, his is WashU campus, basically, and like a sliver of, I think, Clayton Gardens. But anyway, he said she's been doing that for a long time, and she loves it. And he actually used to be a history teacher, so some of these bills that have been talked about are of a lot of interest to him. A highlight for me also in the day is they did a student showcase in the Capitol building where they had different public schools from around the state showcasing and showing off some innovative programs they have. Catalyst was there for some reason only with Ladue kids, not Clayton kids, which we kind of made a joke about. But For example, Ferguson Florissant had some kids there that go to their district pays for kids that apply and are accepted. It's a competitive program to flight school in the summers for kids that want to be pilots. And they the kids we talked to. It's amazing. They literally are graduating high school with a pilot's license and can go be a pilot like on these little charter jet private planes. It's really cool. And they were very proud of that. And we talked to like a little some school and I think it was Lisa Smith. Well, I was going to say Smithville High School. They have a very, very expansive cadet teaching program where they have high school students for they get a grade and a credit for being a teacher's assistant in another school or for a teacher in their school or an elementary school in their district. And they showed us they have binders of they learn how to write lesson plans and different teaching styles and how to manage classrooms for kids that want to become educators. And, um, it just was a great program because a lot of them come back to their district to become teachers and they've kind of grown their own. So, which was cool. And Lee's summit was that, was that the bird houses?

Yeah.

Every fifth grader in the Lee's summit school district, which is a lot, they, they have as a huge district builds, they basically have like wood shop and they build a bird house. And, um. Just a cool hands-on experience. So anyway, it was neat to see what public schools around the state are doing and it reminded me that when we are talking about programs in our district that we should be looking more towards other schools that we sometimes don't look at as schools that maybe we think would be models for us but they really should be because there's schools around the state that are doing really cool things so that was it. It was a really great experience. Oh while I have the floor also I just had second calendar committee meeting just right before this actually and. If you remember from our first meeting we basically kind of made a list of priorities and again this committee also is very diverse with parents teachers administrators support staff. This time we looked at kind of like a mock draft calendar if we were to put those priorities into that and we had a lot of great discussion on. what we liked about it, what we didn't like about it, what the parents think would work well for them, what the teachers think would work well them. And we have a couple more meetings still to solidify it before we bring it to the board for a vote. But it's a good group and Tony did a great job leading it too. Gary, did you have a Parks and Rec meeting? Okay. So then does anyone have anything else to report out?

I'll just say real quickly, and first, you know, again, welcome to Pam and Leo, but it is worth noticing, at least I want to thank Jason Wilson publicly for giving six years to the district. It's a lot of time, it's a lot of effort, and, you know, as I told him, you know, I think he's a fierce advocate for a felt, you know, felt good about what we heard two weeks ago about the advances that we made with the student group, you know, over the past year. And, you know, a lot of that, a lot of work by a lot of people, but part of that, you have to give at least some little bit of credit to Jason's fierce advocacy around, around some of those issues. And so I'll miss working with him on the board and, and I'll miss his comedy to help some comic relief during tense times and meetings. But, you know, just want to, again, want to thank Jason for his service.

Thank you. You can read the motion to adjourn.

I motion that the Board of Education adjourn. Second.

All those in favor? Aye. Meeting adjourned.