September 20, 2021 — Meeting Minutes

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MINUTES CITY PLAN COMMISSION/ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD SEPTEMBER 20, 2021 ZOOM MEETING

The City Plan Commission/Architectural Review Board of the City of Clayton, Missouri, met on the above date at 5:30 p.m. via a ZOOM meeting. Upon roll call, the following responded:

Present: Steve Lichtenfeld, Chairman David Gipson, City Manager Ira Berkowitz, Aldermanic Representative Bob Denlow Helen DiFate George Hettich Carolyn Gaidis

Also in Attendance: Susan M. Istenes, AICP, Planning Director Annisa Kumerow, Principal Planner Stephanie Karr, City Attorney

MINUTES The minutes of September 7, 2021 were approved unanimously.

Steve Lichtenfeld, Chairman welcomed everyone to the meeting.

NEW BUSINESS 448 EDGEWOOD DRIVE – ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW-EXTERIOR ALTERATION

The applicant was not present at the start of the meeting. The Architectural Review Board delayed hearing this in hopes the applicant would show up later in the meeting.

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41 S CENTRAL AVENUE – ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD – SIGNAGE Annisa Kumerow summarized the staff report. Charles Henderson, Chief Information Office, St. Louis County, was present.

Charles Henderson – one page every two minutes for pedestrian viewability. No flashing lights or scrolling text; grey scale; straightforward public information. Steve Lichtenfeld – asked about protection for screens. Charles Henderson – outdoor rated to withstand hail, rocks, etc. Carolyn Gaidis – questioned necessity. Feels it’s not a big pedestrian corridor. Expense concerns. May be distracting to cars. Charles Henderson – public notices used to hang in the elevator bay. Moved out due to pandemic. Realized that people do look at them. Per County Lawyers, we must have some mechanism for people to walk up and see them in the Administration Building in Clayton.

Bob Denlow – is there sound; are they color? Charles Henderson– no sound will be used, and color will be muted. Bob Denlow– goal to just show meetings? On 24/7? Charles Henderson– one TV likely dedicated just to county council. The Board notices will scroll on the others. They can only be utilized for public information about access to County services. The intent is to run them 24/7. George Hettich – opposed to running them 24/7. Pre-covid – Roos Building – open until 5. Would like time limit to put on these TVs since access in past was not 24/7. Is height above eye level? Charles Henderson– per ADA requirements, must be 7 feet above ground. George Hettich – it may be difficult to read at that height. Charles Henderson – staff has assured me that it won’t be a problem for pedestrians to read. Fonts large enough for people to see them. We have experience with them in the building. Helen DiFate – how does sun affect the LEDs, so they are readable? Agrees that hours should be limited to the building hours. Charles Henderson – designed to be legible outside even at that height. George Hettich – would be ok with 11 p.m. limit same as hotels. Helen DiFate – agreed with George’s suggestion on time. Ira Berkowitz – readable, from where? Charles Henderson – on sidewalk in front of television, across the street directly across is range, legible from cars and other side of street on sidewalk.

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Ira Berkowitz – whatever happened to those glass display boxes? Charles Henderson – those are only compliant if every page of every notice and agenda is posted individually. Steve Lichtenfeld – will they be perpendicular to plane of building? Charles Henderson – slanted slightly outward. Stephanie Karr – spoke on posting requirements, methods, and legal concerns with using TVs for something other than public notice. Wants to make sure they are compliant with sign sizes. Sunshine Law requires posting on premises. Steve Lichtenfeld – other electronic signage from other uses may come about because of this. Stephanie Karr – look at codes for other electronic signs and tighten them up. Strengthen regulations on moving signs. Bob Denlow – expense for County should not be part of our consideration; Clayton sidewalks should be more inviting and exciting, and this will be scrolling text on the sidewalks. They could put monitors indoors and let people view them there. Ira Berkowitz – Concerns over people driving cars trying to read monitors while driving. Suggests make it less viewable to drivers. Discussion ensued about alternatives to TVs and public interest in viewing the TVs for County updates. Steve Lichtenfeld - asked about access to building by public and access to public notices currently. Charles Henderson - indicated that there isn’t enough floor space within the lobby of the building to be able to display notices via TV. Noted that notices will still be taped up to glass wall as they are currently. Ira Berkowitz – if talking about this only during Covid suggest putting a sunset clause on the approval. Carolyn Gaidis – suggest we get more information. Human scale next to TVs – how they would look at it. Steve Lichtenfeld – suggested we give some thought. George Hettich – not being able to differentiate between commercial use and institutional use is enough for me to say I cannot support this. Stephanie Karr – the lines have been blurred between commercial and governmental speech because you cannot regulate signage based on the content of speech. Steve Lichtenfeld – may need to put more conditions on item; go forward of continue? Ira Berkowitz made a motion to continue. Helen DiFate seconded the motion; the motion to continue was unanimously approved by the Commission. The issue was tabled until a future date when more research is available. 9 N BEMISTON AVENUE – PLAN COMMISSION REVIEW – SUBDIVISION PLAT Annisa Kumerow summarized the staff report.

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Joe Pfleger, Stock & Associates, Consulting Engineers was in attendance Joe Pfleger – would like to get the easements by separate documents and record all at one time. Steve Lichtenfeld – asked about sheet 1 of 2, 700 square feet of difference. What comprises the difference. Joe Pfleger – the 4 foot right of way dedication to the City along the alley causes the total square footage of the parcel to be reduced from its original size. Carolyn Gaidis – no questions Bob Denlow – no questions. George Hettich – no questions Helen DiFate – no questions David Gipson – no questions. Ira Berkowitz – no questions

Hearing no further questions or comments from the Board and hearing no comments from the audience, Carolyn Gaidis, made a motion to recommend approval of the plat approve with staff’s two recommendations. George Hettich seconded the motion; the motion was unanimously approved by the Commission. ARB voted to table the first item to the next meeting. OTHER BUSINESS Carolyn Gaidis presented the code section on site plan review.

Meeting adjourned at 19:12 (7:14 p.m.).